Marine veteran to be charged by Manhattan DA in Jordan Neely subway chokehold death
- Thread starter NorthernHawkeye
- Start date
Why not? If three people judged it reasonable then it's far more likely to be judged reasonable by a jury imo. Might not break the case but it demonstrates the threat was real and it was reasonable to take action.
It's not political. He deserved to be charged.
Look, I've said it before that if Penny took him down and held him for a few seconds, OK. I mean i get that. I've been on the subway with crazies and its not fun. Had to hop off at 14th once and wait for the next 2 cause I felt that uncomfortable with a dude.
But what gets Penny in trouble is the length. Its just too long.
Couldn't you also make the case that if there were other people there willing and able to help that the choking to death wasn't necessary. That three guys should be able to restrain one without deadly force?
To me, I look at that argument and go Neely wasn't armed. Sure enough people thought he was a danger to join in but that deadly force wasn't necessary and that the three or four or whatever had subdued him.
doesn't change anything.
Continued resistance isn't a reason to use deadly force. Deadly force has to be a last resort. Has to be.
And i doubt you can prove that any evidence of continued resistance could be easily argued that it was Neely fighting for his life. That if he wasn't dying he wouldn't keep fighting off the restraint.
The whole thing is sad all the way around. Sad Neely couldn't get the help he needed. Sad NYers have to put up with this on the subway (why is there not a cop walking up and down every train? oh that's right will take time away from them on their phones and standing in groups on the platform not paying attention with their thumbs in their Kevlar).
It's also sad that Neely wasn't bright enough to let go when Neely was on the ground and restrained. Does that, he's a hero to everybody. NYer taking back the city. Instead he held on until the guy was dead and faces the appropriate charge.
Im not shocked you think Penny would prevail, I doubt it. By every definition of the law he committed the crime. And his intent is irrelevant. That why he isn't charged with murder.
It can't be a defense of well i didn't intend to kill the guy. Or should drunk drivers get off on killing people because they didn't intend to cause a deadly wreck?
People on your side want to defund the police and then in the next breath complain that there isn't "a cop walking up and down every train".
You're the exact type of person they need to root out during jury selection.
Marine veteran to be charged by Manhattan DA in Jordan Neely subway chokehold death
Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg is charging Marine veteran Daniel Penny with manslaughter in the second degree in the NYC subway chokehold death of Jordan Neely.www.foxnews.com
The politicization of cases like this is another nail in the coffin of our society. Before we know the bulk of the facts of what happened people like you are making this case a holy war. Serving on a jury is hard, and the times I've done it I've been generally pleased by the seriousness that people put into it. Destroying the faith in our judicial process is yet another casual degradation of shared norms and values by right wingers. Why not just came out and say a white man is being persecuted?
It's most likely that the jury will have several people on it who use mass transit, and have perhaps experienced the homeless and mentally ill on their trips. That's a plus for the defense.
This is one of the things that I suspect influenced the decision to charge, and will go against him in a trial. He was trained in the use of deadly force. I don't think he started his day thinking he'd kill someone, but a man is dead, and we live in a society governed by laws. Individuals have to be held accountable, especially if a death occurs.
And there you have it. The only one to interject race into this discussion is you. Apparently that’s where your mind is in this matter.
Now I’m left wondering if that’s what’s driving the of minds of some others?
This is I think what the case will hinge on. Not so much if it was reasonable to use force against him but if it was reasonable in the situation to maintain the chokehold for as long as he did.
I'm not sure how anyone can look at this and not to see the politicization of the case. For a while it was unclear if charges would even be filed. Even the mayor was approaching things with care. Then they announced it would be sent to the grand jury. Then, after sustained and violent protests, they charged Penny.
Since YOU brought up race, along those lines, do you feel as though the media would even be covering this case if the races were the same? Do you feel the protests would be happening if the races were the same?
Holy war? Not sure where that dramatic term comes from. I have confidence in our judicial system, but I'm not blind to the hidden agendas and bias that some people bring to the table. To say that the defense team needs to be on alert to that, is not "destroying the faith in our judicial process" or a "casual degradation of shared norms and values". It's called doing their jobs and ensuring that Penny receives a fair trial.
Marines, themselves "looked at it" and have determined the guy should probably go to jail.
Marines who got the SAME training as the guy.
I haven’t paid much attention to this case. Is there a video or account of the incident not offered by MSNBC or Fox?
The article includes the name of only one person who has identified as a former marine. Yet you keep saying "Marines" (plural).
Meanwhile...
Military.com reached out to the Marine Corps several times for this story with questions about training chokeholds, but with the exception of providing Penny's record -- a move it noted was not meant to confirm any detail of the video shot on the subway or that Penny was the person involved, the service has not spoken about the incident.
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Fixed that for you,... I'm sure that we could also locate Marines that would find Penny's actions reasonable...
No, you didn't
MarineS are circulating a petition that he should be criminally charged.
The online petition was started by a person identifying as a former marine. No where does it indicate that the petition is for marines.
Who probably has lots of "marine buddies" who went thru the same training, and understand the issue.
I enjoy watching your incapability of reading things past a headline
A Marine Vet Used a Chokehold Leading to a Man's Death. The Technique, Taught in Basic Training, Faces Fresh Scrutiny.
Days after Jordan Neely died after being held in a chokehold by a Marine veteran aboard a New York City subway train, the vet has identified himself amid swirling questions about the use of the tactic, which is taught in basic training by the service.
6000+ signatures.
I enjoy watching your incapability of reading things past a headline
A Marine Vet Used a Chokehold Leading to a Man's Death. The Technique, Taught in Basic Training, Faces Fresh Scrutiny.
Days after Jordan Neely died after being held in a chokehold by a Marine veteran aboard a New York City subway train, the vet has identified himself amid swirling questions about the use of the tactic, which is taught in basic training by the service.www.yahoo.com
6000+ signatures.
Oh I read it. The question is did you comprehend it?
Nowhere does it say that those signatures were marines.
You're just making shit up.
You're claiming NONE of them are, and NONE of the commenters in the reddit marines thread, who are all commenting that Penny is fooked based on his obvious training, are marines, either.
ok
Witness testimony will convince the jury to come up with a not guilty verdict.
T's & P's to the dead guy however his family ultimately was more complicit in his death than Mr. Penny.
T's & P's to the dead guy however his family ultimately was more complicit in his death than Mr. Penny.
I wonder if you even comprehend what you are saying here. The marines doing this couod face charges themselves under the ucmj.
The same black guy that put an innocent women in a coma and gave her permanent brain damage? The same black guy that had been arrested over 40 times for violent crimes? the same black guy that was threatening passengers on the subway before he was restrained? I say you want to play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.
If anyone should be charged, it should the be prosecuting attorney for not keeping this "black guy" off the streets.
He wasn't arrested 40x for violent crimes. Not even close. Also he didn't deserve the death penalty for being mentally unstable.
