Maybe not a dumpster fire, but...
- Thread starter Azchief32
- Start date
Already started when he signed with Penn State. He made the choice to idle out instead continuing to grow under the best light weight coaches in the world.
Just my opinion.
Just my opinion.
Lets not bad mouth Penn States team or coaches as they have won what we want 4 times since we have been on top. I'm not a fan of their fans, and hate their chant, but they are here to stay. I wish we had the blue chips that they have.
Just sayin....
Just sayin....
Loved your post WE...HAWK!! A little hard on our fans though...I wouldn't judge too harshly based on a few. Many are like me, 60 and older, long-time wrestling fans with a healthy respect for what Iowa, Oklahoma State and others have accomplished. We're bringing a bus full of folks to CH in March, plus many others are traveling by other means, maybe we'll meet!! Then you can see for yourself how horrible most of us really are
. Good luck this season...may your wrestlers stay healthy.Started with this tweet and CP "trolling" the main Flo account because Flo tweeted NY > NJ the downfall has begun after Suriano lost.
(Tweet might have been deleted from CP now)
I think it things changed to negative on Suriano from there, though I'm not sure if they were actually serious given this whole thread started over a joke.
(Tweet might have been deleted from CP now)
I think it things changed to negative on Suriano from there, though I'm not sure if they were actually serious given this whole thread started over a joke.
The FLO boss must have held a meeting. The meeting was a load of fun I'm sure. All the tweets are gone.
FLO put out a click bait tweet: "Are we seeing the downfall of Nick Suriano?"
Classless shot at a 17 year old kid.
Guess you can't see the tweet I posted while viewing on your phone.
It's only relevant because I seem to remember this board getting called out by Flo for some shots taken at Fredy Stroker.
It's only relevant because I seem to remember this board getting called out by Flo for some shots taken at Fredy Stroker.
Iowa should be able to get as many Blu-Chip recruits as Penn State. Sometimes I think Brands does not target them for one reason or the other. I think he looks for a certain type of recruit. A good example of this is taking Cory Clark over Jimmy Gullibon.
Jimmy was ranked higher and even beat Clark twice in High School, but we all saw who was in the NCAA finals this past season...
Jimmy was ranked higher and even beat Clark twice in High School, but we all saw who was in the NCAA finals this past season...
I do remember seeing a pic of Guilbon with a Hawkeye shirt. They got the guys they wanted in Gilman and Clark tho.
This is a REALLY Silly example.....Guilibon was 1A, and Clark was 1B There was not a big gap at all in their talent level.... Clark went to High School in Iowa, Guilibon in PA. If Guilibon went to Iowa and Clark to Penn State now that would have been really Weird.
I think this thread touches on what is the greatest shortcoming of the Brands tenure. Tom still believes he can take less talented kids and make them champions through hard work like the good ol days. Unfortunately, that just isn't enough to get it done anymore. The Iowa wrestling room has lacked the athletes necessary to win titles. Until Iowa starts bringing in a higher caliber of athlete, fans are going to be dealing with top 5 finishes not championships. That's ok in most sports. That's not ok in wrestling where very few schools take it seriously. The next 2-3 years are going to be very interesting, and I hope things improve in Iowa City.
I think his point is, we can't assume we're going to have a Daniel Dennis every year, and that we need more guys like Brent Metcalf. The only response to that I can think of is "No $h1t"
"The Iowa wrestling room has lacked the athletes necessary to win titles."
- 2nd
- 4th
- 4th
- 3rd
2015: 18 points out of 1st (0 champs, tOSU had 2)
2014: 31 points out of 1st (1 champ, PSU had 2)
2013: 50.5 points out of 1st (1 champ, PSU had 2)
2012: 35.5 points out of 1st (1 champ, PSU had 3)
2011: 21 points out of 1st (0 champs, PSU had 1)
One champ every 1.7 years doesn't get the job done.
2010: 1st place with 134.5 points (3 champs)
That gets the job done.
2014: 31 points out of 1st (1 champ, PSU had 2)
2013: 50.5 points out of 1st (1 champ, PSU had 2)
2012: 35.5 points out of 1st (1 champ, PSU had 3)
2011: 21 points out of 1st (0 champs, PSU had 1)
One champ every 1.7 years doesn't get the job done.
2010: 1st place with 134.5 points (3 champs)
That gets the job done.
How many of those Champs did Cael recruit? I think some folks are jumping off the ship based off Penn States 4 year run without looking into how that 4 year run occurred. Take away what Cael inherited and there would probably be a different tone around here.
We have a team that can compete for a title this year. Nobody is more competitive than the Brands Brothers. They will adapt and figure out how to beat the big uglies out east.
You could leave out any reference to PSU and Tarp's point would still stand in regards to Iowa.
It's 0% about Penn State. Take them completely out of the equation and we still wouldn't have won a title in the past 5 years.
It's about scoring 100+ points, which is completely within our power. We've scored <85 the past 3 years.
What do we need to do differently to get back to scoring 100, 120, 140 points? Some say we must recruit more studs like Kemerer and Marinelli who can make a difference as freshmen. I agree with that assessment.
It's about scoring 100+ points, which is completely within our power. We've scored <85 the past 3 years.
What do we need to do differently to get back to scoring 100, 120, 140 points? Some say we must recruit more studs like Kemerer and Marinelli who can make a difference as freshmen. I agree with that assessment.
People use Penn State as an example in almost every post without admitting that Cael wouldn't have won without Ruth and Q. Props to Cael but lets not act like he had a magic formula. I agree we need to be putting up 100+ points. This team has the firepower to do it.
Whether he recruited them or not, he needed the horses to win the race. The same type of horses that Iowa (and anyone else) will need to bring in to get back on top. TarpHawk is spot on.
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So by that line of thinking Brands should have an asterisk for the titles when he had guys Jimmy Z had recruited? Just because Cael didn't recruit these guys doesn't mean he didn't coach them up to win the titles. Yes recruiting is part of it but you still have to coach the guys.
Touché.
That point on Cael and Brands is a dead horse. Move on people...on both sides. Smh
That point on Cael and Brands is a dead horse. Move on people...on both sides. Smh
Even if Ruth, Q, Taylor, Nico, or Frank all five never wrested a match for Cael Iowa still would not have won a title those four years.
You are the only person talking about who Cael did or did not recruit. The Hawks haven't had the firepower to even place second until this past year. Let alone win. Doesn't matter who Cael recruited. Those are the kind of stud, blue chip performances the Hawks need to win a title.
I could have coached ed Ruth and Q to titles and I've never wrestled in my life. Just sayin'
Based on what? I remember everyone giving Metcalf the title over Caldwell without a worry and none of us want to think about that one again. Just because a guy has great talent doesn't mean anyone can coach them to a title. The fact of the matter remains Iowa didn't get the job done and isn't getting the job done right now. None of us as Hawk fans like it but we can't argue with what the results have been, we haven't been good enough to win it and on paper this year looks like it could be the same, thankfully though they don't hand out the title based on what things look like on paper.
This reeks of jealousy so badly it's amazing the entire screen doesn't turn green.
I want to add one caveat to the point about needing to recruit studs. While it's pretty clear that we've favored multiple mid-tier recruits vs. a few top-10 recruits for the past several years, and while I think that has been a mistake, the philosophical gap isn't huge (i.e. we have several incoming studs). If we're diagnosing why we haven't won NCAAs for the past 5 years, I'd assign 50% of the cause to recruiting too many Toyotas and not enough Ferraris. But I'd assign the other 50% to the fact that our #1 recruiting class of 2010 (which had several Ferraris) just didn't pan out.
#4 recruit Evans generated 31 career NCAA points and no titles.
#11 recruit Moore generated 4.5 career NCAA points and no titles.
#12 recruit Dziewa generated 5.5 career NCAA points and no titles.
#19 recruit Telford generated 42 career NCAA points and no titles.
#31 recruit J Ballweg generated 0 career NCAA points and no titles.
#74 recruit Kelly generated 0 career NCAA points and no titles.
#79 recruit Baldosaro generated 0 career NCAA points and no titles.
That's obviously a hell of a recruiting class. But they comprised half the lineup in 2015 and generated only 25.5 points.
This is not a personal bash on any of them. I'm saying our issue isn't ONLY that we're not recruiting studs. The ones we do recruit still have to be the right ones, and they have to be managed and coached and trained and motivated properly (and not get injured).
#4 recruit Evans generated 31 career NCAA points and no titles.
#11 recruit Moore generated 4.5 career NCAA points and no titles.
#12 recruit Dziewa generated 5.5 career NCAA points and no titles.
#19 recruit Telford generated 42 career NCAA points and no titles.
#31 recruit J Ballweg generated 0 career NCAA points and no titles.
#74 recruit Kelly generated 0 career NCAA points and no titles.
#79 recruit Baldosaro generated 0 career NCAA points and no titles.
That's obviously a hell of a recruiting class. But they comprised half the lineup in 2015 and generated only 25.5 points.
This is not a personal bash on any of them. I'm saying our issue isn't ONLY that we're not recruiting studs. The ones we do recruit still have to be the right ones, and they have to be managed and coached and trained and motivated properly (and not get injured).
Really? Have you ever looked back to see how the recruiting classes stack up after the fact? Here are some of the most recent.
2012: would you rather have (4) Rogers, (5) Meeks, and (7) M. Grey OR (16) Gillman, (20) Brooks, (23) Clark?
2011: would you rather have (4) Thielke, (5) Storley, and (7) H. Stieber OR (15) Dieringer, (16) Green, and (23) Brewer?
Unfortunately there are no time machines to make sure you pick only the gems. Going in, generally (need/other things factor in) any coach would rather take their chances with #4, 5, & 7 as opposed to #15,16, 20 & 23. It might work out that the latter group were the gems but there is a reason they were not the #4, 5 or 7 guys coming in.
I mean Stieber has actually panned out fairly well aside from last seasons injury but I see where you're going
Your cherry picking using different teams recruits. Penn State's #1 recruiting class was a 4,5,7. Iowa's #1 was a 15,16,20,23. I'll take the very best recruits any day over depth recruits, even understanding that not every top 5 pans out.
I wouldn't say 15, 16, 20, and 23 are "depth" recruits. Recruits in the 11-25 range still have a fairly high success rate, not so different than the top 10. Most top 25 recruits are at or near the top of their weight class nationally and who you want to target. It's silly to assume brands doesn't go after top 10 recruits, so if they choose not to come to Iowa for one reason or another, then stockpiling in the 11-25 range will get you plenty of successes until you get those top 10 recruits.
Since we're talking about titles here and you both have the stats and seem to think getting guys in the 15-25 range isn't much different than those 1-10, can you list the top 2 point scorers from each of the last 5 championship teams along with their overall rank coming out of high school?
That's some pretty damn good "depth"! I'll take that class every single year and take my chances.
2015: L Stieber (26) - #1 class of 2010; Tomasello (24.5) - #10 class of 2013
2014: Taylor (27) - #1 class of 2009; Ruth (24.5) - #5 class of 2009
2013: Ruth (26) #5 class of 2009; Taylor (25) - #1 class of 2009
2012: Taylor (30.5) - # 1 class of 2009; Ruth (27.5) - #5 class of 2009
2011: Ruth (pts?) - #5 class of 2009; Taylor (pts?) - #1 class of 2009
Another angle is to look at the top 2 point scorers regardless of team:
2015: Gadson (26.5) - #65 class of 2010; L Stieber (26) - #1 class of 2010
2014: Taylor (27) - #1 class of 2009; Stieber (26.5) - #1 class of 2010
2013: L Stieber (27) - #1 class of 2010; Ruth (26) #5 class of 2009
2012: Taylor (30.5) - # 1 class of 2009; Ruth (27.5) - #5 class of 2009
2011: (not in TrackWrestling)
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