More Stall Calls in Hindsight

[Sandor45]

I think we can all agree that for the most part, we like the out of bounds stalling rule in place this year. It's really a game changer. Refs also are letting the stall calls fly this year. The new out of bounds rule and, more importantly, the willingness by the refs to make the stall calls has lead to more action, scoring, and overall a better product on the mat.
This made me wonder the outcome of past big time matches if these current rules and willingness to call the stall were already in place back than.
What past match ups do you see going differently with the new rules and emphasis on stalling in place.

Off the top of my head...
Mark Perry vs Mike Evans at NCAAs
NATO vs Gilman at Big Tens
Pretty much half of Jesse Delgado matches
Streeblers wrestling for a total of 18 minutes his entire senior season (4pt back)

 

[hoythawk]

Brooks would have DQ'd Dechow last year. That was one of the worst matches in the last few years. Most of Missouri's team last year at national duals also.

 

[DonHawkeye]

I was leery of how the new rule was going to be enforced. I am pleasantly surprised how well the refs have called it. I was in favor of just a push out, but if they keep up calling it like they have this is a better option.

Even when the calls have been somewhat inconsistent it makes guys think before just backing out of bounds. I am convinced that for the most part it is a choice to go out of bounds. This is proven by how few times teams like Iowa go out of bounds so far.

 

[hoffhawk]

I was surprised that Mike Allen allowed the no-calls to go for so long. Maybe as coordinator outside his control? Anyway he reffed severL of my matches in the 80s and he was relentless on stalling! Even working your but off, if he didnt think you were improving, you got a ten count and someone was getting hit.

Im happy things are moving back that way. Wrestling isnt a score and protect your lead sport - it is a dominance and endurance test. The only way around working hard for 7 minutes is pin your man.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I was leery of how the new rule was going to be enforced. I am pleasantly surprised how well the refs have called it. I was in favor of just a push out, but if they keep up calling it like they have this is a better option.

Even when the calls have been somewhat inconsistent it makes guys think before just backing out of bounds. I am convinced that for the most part it is a choice to go out of bounds. This is proven by how few times teams like Iowa go out of bounds so far.

Perfectly summarizes my thoughts on the subject. I still think the push-out because of its simplicity, and we have seen inconsistency with this rule as most of us probably expected, but I am surprised at how aggressively the refs are calling it, and the new rule is keeping the action in the center more than I'd expected. All in all, definitely a positive development where the rules are concerned.

It will be interesting to compare the average match duration this season to last season. I suspect it ends up significantly shorter, which will actually have practical implications for tournaments, which will probably move along a good bit more efficiently.

 

[Jaybird319]

I'm holding a reserve judgement on this matter. I wanna see if refs will pull the trigger in March. If they swallow their whistles again as in past years, "push out" needs to be added immediately.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

I was surprised that Mike Allen allowed the no-calls to go for so long. Maybe as coordinator outside his control? Anyway he reffed severL of my matches in the 80s and he was relentless on stalling! Even working your but off, if he didnt think you were improving, you got a ten count and someone was getting hit.

Im happy things are moving back that way. Wrestling isnt a score and protect your lead sport - it is a dominance and endurance test. The only way around working hard for 7 minutes is pin your man.

Mike Allen is only in charge of officials in the Big Ten/Big 12/MAC. There was a change in the National Coordinator of Officials over the summer, from Pat McCormick to Tim Shiels. Wonder if Shiels is holding the refs accountable in ways McCormick didn't.

 

[gablefan73]

Mike Allen is only in charge of officials in the Big Ten/Big 12/MAC. There was a change in the National Coordinator of Officials over the summer, from Pat McCormick to Tim Shiels. Wonder if Shiels is holding the refs accountable in ways McCormick didn't.

Every Tony Nelson match should have ended in DQ. Color me skeptical that the refs will call it like this in March.

 

[Neo_Hawk]

Every Tony Nelson match should have ended in DQ. Color me skeptical that the refs will call it like this in March.

I agree that enforcement in March will be important, but for now, I think it's great, it forces more action. Combine with the added back point rule, I have seen more action (working to score points, or more points) in the 5 or 6 duals I have watched so far this year, than in half a seasons worth of duals last year.

For the most part, stalling calls last year were worthless statements in the 3rd period that resulted in a warning called late enough in the match to ensure no points could be rewarded. Call it early and call it whenever applicable and see how each wrestler responds.

 

[artradley]

I'm holding a reserve judgement on this matter. I wanna see if refs will pull the trigger in March. If they swallow their whistles again as in past years, "push out" needs to be added immediately.

If they keep calling it thru the season I think it will still be there at Nationals. Officials rightfully don't want to insert themselves into the results of a match, but there comes a point where not making the call is every bit as much affecting the results as calling things too aggressively.

I think refs are fine with calling stalls, they just prefer objective criteria.

 

[Azchief32]

And it won't happen in a big match either...Brooks wearing the ISU kid out vs Cooper and Marstellar. At least the ISU fish had some flop to him.

 

[Cal98]

I love the new stalling rules, but I also foresee some consequences we may not like. Taken from Intermat's report on it, they state the following:
"...when wrestling action is halted in the neutral position when both wrestlers go out of bounds, the mat official is obligated to make one of three calls: a) stalling on one or both wrestlers for leaving the wrestling area; b) stalling for pushing or pulling the opponent out of bounds; or c) wrestling action is taking place."

I worry about B, and it suddenly gets interpreted a Hawk wrestler is simply pushing his opponent out of bounds. You know other coaches are going to be rallying around this and pointing it out. So far, I don't think I've seen too many instances of it, and it's more of an Iowa wrestler stalking their opponent out of bounds. What I don't want to see is an Iowa wrestler stalking a back pedaling opponent, Iowa shoots the opponent off the mat, and the referee rules it wrestling action taking place. In that instance, the Iowa wrestler would have been better off just simply hand fighting them off the mat. Overall though, I like the effect this new rule has had. You can see opponents starting to put more effort into circling back in, and it's made the product much more watchable.

Iowa wrestlers have been well coached on this new rule, IMO. Have any of our wrestlers been called for stalling on this yet? I bet we've racked up several dozen on our opponents.

 

[Neo_Hawk]

I love the new stalling rules, but I also foresee some consequences we may not like. Taken from Intermat's report on it, they state the following:
"...when wrestling action is halted in the neutral position when both wrestlers go out of bounds, the mat official is obligated to make one of three calls: a) stalling on one or both wrestlers for leaving the wrestling area; b) stalling for pushing or pulling the opponent out of bounds; or c) wrestling action is taking place."

I worry about B, and it suddenly gets interpreted a Hawk wrestler is simply pushing his opponent out of bounds. You know other coaches are going to be rallying around this and pointing it out. So far, I don't think I've seen too many instances of it, and it's more of an Iowa wrestler stalking their opponent out of bounds. What I don't want to see is an Iowa wrestler stalking a back pedaling opponent, Iowa shoots the opponent off the mat, and the referee rules it wrestling action taking place. In that instance, the Iowa wrestler would have been better off just simply hand fighting them off the mat. Overall though, I like the effect this new rule has had. You can see opponents starting to put more effort into circling back in, and it's made the product much more watchable.

Iowa wrestlers have been well coached on this new rule, IMO. Have any of our wrestlers been called for stalling on this yet? I bet we've racked up several dozen on our opponents.

I think one of our wrestlers was warned during the IC Duals, but not points were awarded (if I remember correctly, could be wrong) And I agree that our wrestlers do seem to be well coached on this because most of the out of bounds situations have resulted from us shoot them off rather than pushing out, but to me, I don't even care if it benefits us or not (which it think it does), I just want to see more incentives for guys to be active, to go for the tilt, to take a shot on the edge. I think forced action will benefit us.

Last years teams was very disappointing when measuring potential offense vs actual offence. How much better would Evan have been if he pushed the pace and took risk? How much better did BS look early last year against OSU vs.his performances against Tshirt? I have always felt Iowa Wrestling is about pushing the pace through forward action and offense, I hope the new rules will force our guys to do this more often, and force the other guys to do the same, both resulting in Iowa points. I shoot I score, they shoot....well you know the rest.

 

[onchawk]

As long as Iowa continues working to score on the edge of the mat I don't think it will be an issue. In the last few years there have been matches where it does at times look like the Iowa wrestler is simply pushing his opponent out of bounds. I haven't seen that at all this year. The hawks have been aggressive throughout their matches and have been looking to score on the edge. As a result you have seen the refs correctly call stalling on the other wrestler when they haven't continued to wrestle and instead used the edge to escape action.

The Hawks continue to stay aggressive and look to score no matter where on the mat and this new rule will really help.

 

[DonHawkeye]

I think the easiest way for the refs to not inject themselves in the match with the new rules is to strongly lean towards calling any out of bounds stalling on the guy backing out. They should have a really really good reason not to call stalling on the guy that is leaving the wrestling area.

 

[crablegs1]

One thing to remember is that wrestlers will adjust to the changes. If refs continue to call it like they have early this year, they won't need to call it as much in March. Wrestlers will have learned throughout the year to not play the edge and the action will naturally gravitate towards the center.

Calling stalling and getting points that way is great. But I think what we all really want is more action. Points scored for takedowns and turns not stalling calls. Making these calls now will get the wrestlers to change their mindsets.

 

[Sandor45]

In the Utopian world of college wrestling, wrestlers are so afraid of referees that they wrestle in bounds

I love the new stalling rules, but I also foresee some consequences we may not like. Taken from Intermat's report on it, they state the following:
"...when wrestling action is halted in the neutral position when both wrestlers go out of bounds, the mat official is obligated to make one of three calls: a) stalling on one or both wrestlers for leaving the wrestling area; b) stalling for pushing or pulling the opponent out of bounds; or c) wrestling action is taking place."

I worry about B, and it suddenly gets interpreted a Hawk wrestler is simply pushing his opponent out of bounds. You know other coaches are going to be rallying around this and pointing it out. So far, I don't think I've seen too many instances of it, and it's more of an Iowa wrestler stalking their opponent out of bounds. What I don't want to see is an Iowa wrestler stalking a back pedaling opponent, Iowa shoots the opponent off the mat, and the referee rules it wrestling action taking place. In that instance, the Iowa wrestler would have been better off just simply hand fighting them off the mat. Overall though, I like the effect this new rule has had. You can see opponents starting to put more effort into circling back in, and it's made the product much more watchable.

Iowa wrestlers have been well coached on this new rule, IMO. Have any of our wrestlers been called for stalling on this yet? I bet we've racked up several dozen on our opponents.

"Iowa wrestlers have been well coached on this new rule..."
That's true, but really, they've been coached to control the center of the mat way before this new rule got put in place.
Probably didn't take a whole lot of coaching to train them on the new rules. Now some other schools probably took some doing and will continue to take some coaching.....

 

[icu81222]

As a passive fan, I was impressed at the OSU dual by the changes. I actually dvr any match that is on BTN and always ended up fast forwarding through quite a bit when ever guys are just pushing on each other and can tell nothing is happening.

Very pleasant change and makes it easier to want to watch. Particularly for someone not obsessed with wrestling.

 

[hoffhawk]

Mike Allen is only in charge of officials in the Big Ten/Big 12/MAC. There was a change in the National Coordinator of Officials over the summer, from Pat McCormick to Tim Shiels. Wonder if Shiels is holding the refs accountable in ways McCormick didn't.

Thanks for clarification seton! I figured there had to be Nother level involved.