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National Duals Cancelled

goiahawkeyes said:
Don't think anyone is sad about this.

http://www.flowrestling.org/article/58291-division-1-national-duals-have-been-cancelled#.WVVUp2fruUk
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JohnBasedow said:
Not surprising. Last year it was Suriano who was injured and the year before that it was Stoll. It's not worth the additional exposure of injury right before the big tournaments.
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With your mentality why not skip out on all tourneys after the New Year?
 
LutherAce said:
the comments on that article are hilarious.

apparently Iowa is the driving force behind the cancelling of the Duals and this is a step backwards for wrestling.
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I completely expected this response from the subset of wrestling fans who have nothing better to do than bitch and whine about Iowa's every move. The national duals clearly would have succeeded if Iowa just wrestled Virginia Tech :rolleyes:
 
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Carl's hands are all over this. Did what he had to do to keep Suriano.

THIS IS A JOKE^^^^^^^
 
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National Duals would work good in early Jan but I never thought having them at the end of the year would work
 
moug said:
Carl's hands are all over this. Did what he had to do to keep Suriano.

THIS IS A JOKE^^^^^^^
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Are you suggesting that if he got the duals cancelled, Suriano said he would stay at PSU or was a your post totally facetious? I am to sure it the "This is a joke" refers to your comment or canceling the duals. (or "duels" - if you got your degree from a non UNESCO school)
 
So, Iowa bows down to Karl and what he wants! Good job for wrestling Brands....and you fans thinking this is good!!
 
JohnBasedow said:
Not surprising. Last year it was Suriano who was injured and the year before that it was Stoll. It's not worth the additional exposure of injury right before the big tournaments.
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I can't get over this. Guess what, injuries occur in EVERY tourney. You should invent flag wrestling. Non contact!!
 
lookleft goright said:
Are you suggesting that if he got the duals cancelled, Suriano said he would stay at PSU or was a your post totally facetious? I am to sure it the "This is a joke" refers to your comment or canceling the duals. (or "duels" - if you got your degree from a non UNESCO school)
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Are you really that obtuse or am I Warden Norton for missing an even better sarcastic response to a sarcastic post.

And is this post even more sarcastic????

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Seems like it's about 50/50 on who likes the National Duals and who doesn't. The one nice thing about it was getting to Crown a Duals Champion. Now it kind of brings us back to the age old question, which is "Do Duals matter?" The National Championship will be determined by the NCAA National Tournament, so other than using Duals as a way to "Hone" your skills and give you a "Warm-up" before the tournament, does it take College Wrestling a step back?
 
It's coming down to not just the Duals, but sending your team to tourneys. Kael is focused on NCAA Championship. He doesn't care about the regular season. Hence why he pulled Hall's redshirt. Frankly, I understand that because he has doesn't have success at the duals
 
TakedownWins said:
It's coming down to not just the Duals, but sending your team to tourneys. Kael is focused on NCAA Championship. He doesn't care about the regular season. Hence why he pulled Hall's redshirt. Frankly, I understand that because he has doesn't have success at the duals
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What the hell are you rambling about?
 
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TakedownWins said:
It's coming down to not just the Duals, but sending your team to tourneys. Kael is focused on NCAA Championship. He doesn't care about the regular season. Hence why he pulled Hall's redshirt. Frankly, I understand that because he has doesn't have success at the duals
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Must be a Minne fan who is upset at the potential lack of TShirts...maybe Jammenz padawan?
 
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TakedownWins said:
It's coming down to not just the Duals, but sending your team to tourneys. Kael is focused on NCAA Championship. He doesn't care about the regular season. Hence why he pulled Hall's redshirt. Frankly, I understand that because he has doesn't have success at the duals
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Every coach defines and is defined by success at the national tourney. National duals not so much.
 
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TakedownWins said:
It's coming down to not just the Duals, but sending your team to tourneys. Kael is focused on NCAA Championship. He doesn't care about the regular season. Hence why he pulled Hall's redshirt. Frankly, I understand that because he has doesn't have success at the duals
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What do you mean by does't have success? He won them last year and they have been a top 2 or 3 team in duals for a few years now. Does success mean they win them every year? I happen to agree. Let them go and move on. We can have some good duals during the season and lets get ready of the national tourney.
 
BIG10MANIAC said:
Seems like it's about 50/50 on who likes the National Duals and who doesn't. The one nice thing about it was getting to Crown a Duals Champion. Now it kind of brings us back to the age old question, which is "Do Duals matter?" The National Championship will be determined by the NCAA National Tournament, so other than using Duals as a way to "Hone" your skills and give you a "Warm-up" before the tournament, does it take College Wrestling a step back?
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Duals have always mattered to me, but never because of the National Duals. Whether or not Iowa is going to win a dual meet comes into question 1-3 times a year, and its been that way for 40 years. If a dual win was all that mattered, I wouldn't bother coming to Carver to see the Hawks wrestle Michigan State.

The reason most people like duals is for the individual matchups, and the seeding implications of those matchups at B1Gs/NCAAs. That hasn't changed.
 
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YoungGun07 said:
Duals have always mattered to me, but never because of the National Duals. Whether or not Iowa is going to win a dual meet comes into question 1-3 times a year, and its been that way for 40 years. If a dual win was all that mattered, I wouldn't bother coming to Carver to see the Hawks wrestle Michigan State.

The reason most people like duals is for the individual matchups, and the seeding implications of those matchups at B1Gs/NCAAs. That hasn't changed.
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Yep. Anytime you get to see some live action it's all good, especially when it's a bunch of highly rated teams under the same roof for multiple duals.

Obviously the proximity was good for us in Cedar Falls, but it was a great event while it was there. Absolutely loved going to it. So I will miss that aspect at that locale, and we attended other National Dual events in other places, but the format had gotten to be complete garbage.

So I don't really consider this good news in any way. Damned shame it got to where it got to as far as I'm concerned.
 
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Not having a national duels is not good for the sport in my opinion. Of course I like the old system and think things went downhill after it changed. A dying sport like wrestling needs every big event it can get. I dont understand avoiding competing to help prevent injuries but I also dislike guys sitting out meets to avoid risking tourney seeds also.
 
I'm clearly alone on this topic of making the National Ds a real NCAA Championship Tourney. Get the top 4 (maybe 8) teams from the Current format and do a one weekend for all the real team marbles - 2 weeks after the Individual Tourney. Current format is just a team score assembled by individual performances. Have a real team champion!!! yeah - i get it - the ncaa will not sanction 2 champs for the same sport. WTF = Indoor and outdoor track, indoor and beach V-ball - oh yeah - what about all the swim crap? Do the damn Team wrestling tourney based on the Team score from the current format. 4 or 8 team - I don't give a crap!!! At the end of the day .... It will be more wrestling that people care about. Nobody cares about the NDs as it stands!
 
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bphawkeye_Rivals said:
I'm clearly alone on this topic of making the National Ds a real NCAA Championship Tourney. Get the top 4 (maybe 8) teams from the Current format and do a one weekend for all the real team marbles - 2 weeks after the Individual Tourney. Current format is just a team score assembled by individual performances. Have a real team champion!!! yeah - i get it - the ncaa will not sanction 2 champs for the same sport. WTF = Indoor and outdoor track, indoor and beach V-ball - oh yeah - what about all the swim crap? Do the damn Team wrestling tourney based on the Team score from the current format. 4 or 8 team - I don't give a crap!!! At the end of the day .... It will be more wrestling that people care about. Nobody cares about the NDs as it stands!
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I don't think you're alone at all in that line of thinking. I suspect most diehard wrestling fans would love to see a true tournament team champ and a true dual team champ. However, for the typically absurd reasons you mention, that doesn't seem to be in the cards. Some aspects of NCAA-sanctioned athletics make absolutely no sense.
 
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I'm totally fine with this. A dual meet format is just about the dumbest way to pick the best team. It makes no sense, as it overvalues wins by poor to mediocre wrestlers over other poor to mediocre wrestler and drastically undervalues losses by excellent wrestlers to other excellent wrestlers.

Tournament point format is about 10,000x better.
 
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FrontHeadlock2 said:
I'm totally fine with this. A dual meet format is just about the dumbest way to pick the best team. It makes no sense, as it overvalues wins by poor to mediocre wrestlers over other poor to mediocre wrestler and drastically undervalues losses by excellent wrestlers to other excellent wrestlers.

Tournament point format is about 10,000x better.
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so a team going head to head and beating another team = the better team is not better?
 
FrontHeadlock2 said:
I'm totally fine with this. A dual meet format is just about the dumbest way to pick the best team. It makes no sense, as it overvalues wins by poor to mediocre wrestlers over other poor to mediocre wrestler and drastically undervalues losses by excellent wrestlers to other excellent wrestlers.

Tournament point format is about 10,000x better.
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True, but at the same time, tournament scoring rewards top-end talents and not necessarily balance. We've seen teams with maybe 5 super studs win Nationals with several holes in their lineup. A team with 10 quality starters but without the very top-end talent could be a great dual meet team but a less great tournament team. That kind of team could knock off the tournament winner with several superstars but several holes.

I wouldn't say one scoring system is necessarily bad -- they're just obviously different and reward different aspects of the team. There's something to be said for having elite national champs, while there's also something to be said for having balance.
 
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Good30 said:
Not having a national duels is not good for the sport in my opinion. Of course I like the old system and think things went downhill after it changed. A dying sport like wrestling needs every big event it can get. I dont understand avoiding competing to help prevent injuries but I also dislike guys sitting out meets to avoid risking tourney seeds also.
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Not picking on your post per se, but why is not having a national dual not good for the sport? What are we missing by not having PSU-OSU or Iowa-VT? Can the sport really die if #1 and #2 or #3 and #6 don't meet annually near the end of the season? Seems like a silly thought to me. If our sport is that close to dying that not having one dual will injure it, maybe we should get the shotgun out of the case and help it along.

As for it being a big event, the attendance figures do not support that contention, and outside the die hards like us, no one in society cares about National Duals. It had no real value in lifting the sport unfortunately. It is time for everyone to stop with the feel good bandaid fixes and power/money grab and really think about the sport long term.
 
WWDMHawkeye said:
I don't think you're alone at all in that line of thinking. I suspect most diehard wrestling fans would love to see a true tournament team champ and a true dual team champ. However, for the typically absurd reasons you mention, that doesn't seem to be in the cards. Some aspects of NCAA-sanctioned athletics make absolutely no sense.
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only some?
 
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So, will we have a hole in the end of our schedule that we will fill with a non-conference opponent?.
 
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