Next year...based on last night

[RocknRollface]

People need to enjoy this season. Probably the best team Iowas had in decades.

Next year will be a learning season for all the new players. The goal will be improvement, W and Ls are not as important.

Its probably an NIT type team.

 

[hackeysack]

The difference this year is #1 shooting and #2 toughness. This team can flat out shoot from all over the floor and that is a huge difference maker on so many levels. Some here have mentioned senior leadership and experience, but Izzo is spot on with his toughness description. Woody, Uthoff, Gesell, Clemmons - these four won't be intimidated, bullied, or rattled. It's a Dan Gable like mentality - strong, conditioned, fundamentally practiced, confident, aggressive. Reminds me of the Wisconsin seniors last year. Throw in some key role players and talent, with Fran's attack and pressure style on both offense and defense, and we get some incredibly dominate stretches of basketball.

Watching Woody play post defense is my favorite example of this (strength, fundamentals, toughness). Foul trouble is not an issue for him any more and every now and then the opponent is going to feel an elbow to the face or a hand to the eye. Even the best post players are going to have to work extremely hard to score on him, and are highly unlikely to go on a run or make a significant impact. He's manned up against some of the top bigs in the country and been an oak.

Next year's team might have some athleticism, some decent shooting, and perhaps be fun to watch at times, but I imagine there will be plenty of frustrating moments. Without a doubt, next year's team won't have the toughness exemplified by this team, and that will be more than evident in conference play next season.

 

[revkev73]

Hackey...on what basis do you say that "next year's team without a doubt won't have the same toughness as this year's team?"

What is to say they won't be tougher...? To say experience alone makes toughness isn't fail proof.

And I am talking mid to the tail end of the season...

 

[hackeysack]

Hackey...on what basis do you say that "next year's team without a doubt won't have the same toughness as this year's team?"

What is to say they won't be tougher...? To say experience alone makes toughness isn't fail proof.

I never said experience alone makes toughness. In fact, I said quite the opposite. I said others mentioned leadership and experience, and that toughness was something more. Experience is part of toughness, but so are strength, conditioning, fundamentals, practice, confidence, and aggressiveness. I would also add discipline. Discipline to do what you are coached to do.

I base my statement on the fact that a future hall of fame coach just publicly said that this was Fran McCaffery's toughest team, and the fact that we lose our four toughest players after this season. We return one senior and one junior next year (not including our injured juco transfer Jones). Even if you assume they fill the gap for two of the departed seniors, we're then left with Baer, Ellingson, Wagner, Jones, and a slew of guys who have barely or never stepped on a college basketball court. You're delusional if you think next year's team will be tougher.

Can we have a decent team with some talent and athleticism, and win some games? Sure. Will we display the toughness of this year's team? No chance. Not even late in the year next year.

 

[revkev73]

OK...I just don't like to say a team or individual "can't" a year or more from what might be...we will see...

 

[onlyonenow]

OK...I just don't like to say a team or individual "can't" a year or more from what might be...we will see...

its called reason and logic and the ability to recognize REALITY. Blind homers have no such ability.

Show me a team anywhere that ended up better the next season when losing 4 starters. It may have happened but if it ever did it was a pure fluke. You can talk about Michigans bunch but how often did even THAT happen?

So bottom line trying to whine and cry about not saying can't is just the gutless way of avoiding reality.

The starters for next year have a good chance of being SOMEWHAT more athletic then those of this year. BUT are you trying to claim that SLIGHT difference makes up for all that experience?

 

[lonewolf52]

This is so tough simply because I feel many of the players who will be key are guys we have not seen enough of yet to accurately gauge expectations. That being said, I am extremely encouraged by the progress of some of the guys already on campus particularly Jok and Uhl.

The PG position has me a little nervous; I am hoping that Williams can really grow with this year's experience so that his learning curve is not as long. Bohannan is likely going to have to play but I expect some major growing pains as he transitions from running a high school offense to going into the B1G especially with the speed of the game and learning not only how fast he needs to play but also how fast everyone else is.

Jok will obviously be the starter and the cornerstone to the offense. Ellingson should come off the bench but I hope that he continues to develop his other skills than long range shooting. Fleming is a wildcard here; I feel that he can play either the 2 or the 3 however, he needs to really develop not only his own game but his team game. There I times I have seen him in mop-up duty where he just seems like he is out of sync with the offense. I believe that Fleming has the ability but he may just be one of those players that needs to get his feel for playing within the system.

SF to me is the greatest question mark. Everyone says that Moss is athletic yet he is going to be playing major college basketball under the lights for the first time. I am really looking forward to seeing Hutton play. Everything I have heard is that he is physically ready to go. Something I could actually see happening is Uhl playing more at this position much like Uthoff has in the past which allows him to play an inside out game. I would not be at all surprised to see Pemsl play this position eventually but to Redshirt this next year to have an additional year to get up to speed and allow his knee to adjust to the stress of the college game.

PF should be a strong suit for us with Dale Jones coming back to go along with Wagner, that should be enough and yet we have Tyler Cook coming in and Uhl who can help at this position.

Everyone has Uhl playing Center as he has been spelling Woodbury this year. However, it is clear to me at least that this is not a natural position for him as the bigger centers are simply pushing him around in the paint. My prediction here is that our offense will look different from this year with more of a 3 guard 2 forward lineup instead of the traditional center. I think Cook could come right in and play this big boy bruiser role in the paint with Kreiner providing depth. The wonderful safety net here is Uhl who, as he has shown, can play the Center position if called upon.

 

[CanadaHawk]

This is so tough simply because I feel many of the players who will be key are guys we have not seen enough of yet to accurately gauge expectations. That being said, I am extremely encouraged by the progress of some of the guys already on campus particularly Jok and Uhl.

The PG position has me a little nervous; I am hoping that Williams can really grow with this year's experience so that his learning curve is not as long. Bohannan is likely going to have to play but I expect some major growing pains as he transitions from running a high school offense to going into the B1G especially with the speed of the game and learning not only how fast he needs to play but also how fast everyone else is.

Jok will obviously be the starter and the cornerstone to the offense. Ellingson should come off the bench but I hope that he continues to develop his other skills than long range shooting. Fleming is a wildcard here; I feel that he can play either the 2 or the 3 however, he needs to really develop not only his own game but his team game. There I times I have seen him in mop-up duty where he just seems like he is out of sync with the offense. I believe that Fleming has the ability but he may just be one of those players that needs to get his feel for playing within the system.

SF to me is the greatest question mark. Everyone says that Moss is athletic yet he is going to be playing major college basketball under the lights for the first time. I am really looking forward to seeing Hutton play. Everything I have heard is that he is physically ready to go. Something I could actually see happening is Uhl playing more at this position much like Uthoff has in the past which allows him to play an inside out game. I would not be at all surprised to see Pemsl play this position eventually but to Redshirt this next year to have an additional year to get up to speed and allow his knee to adjust to the stress of the college game.

PF should be a strong suit for us with Dale Jones coming back to go along with Wagner, that should be enough and yet we have Tyler Cook coming in and Uhl who can help at this position.

Everyone has Uhl playing Center as he has been spelling Woodbury this year. However, it is clear to me at least that this is not a natural position for him as the bigger centers are simply pushing him around in the paint. My prediction here is that our offense will look different from this year with more of a 3 guard 2 forward lineup instead of the traditional center. I think Cook could come right in and play this big boy bruiser role in the paint with Kreiner providing depth. The wonderful safety net here is Uhl who, as he has shown, can play the Center position if called upon.

There was an article in Hawkcentral not too long ago I don't have time to link right now that has me thinking positively about Hutton and Moss again- particularly Hutton. I could see a bruising defensive lineup with Cook, Uhl, Hutton, Jok, Williams.
Jones could play Uhl's role from this year. Wagner again in energy role and whoever rises to the surface backing up guard.

 

[Jonnymungo]

Watched Cook last play last night on tv. Doesn't have much in the way of offensive skills, yet, but big, strong, moves feet well and runs the floor pretty well. Played at the 5 spot a lot and this is where I see he and Kreiner contributing next year and into the future. Kreiner appears to be much more skilled offensively. I project that we'll see CW, Moss, PJ, Uhl and a mix of Wagner/Cook/Kreiner (sharing the 5 position) with Kreiner being the most skilled offensively. I would not be surprised to see Pemsl red shirted to allow his knee to get stronger. I don't see Ellingson being successful at this level of play and wonder if Bohannon might not be in a similar position (limited athleticism, ?? ball handling skills, physicality). Time will tell, but these 2 will be at a much lower level than most of the rest of the team in terms of the aspects I mentioned, imo. There is a big difference in playing/being successful at the high school level versus playing/being successful in major college basketball.

I agree on Ellingson. Not a fan of his game so far. In evaluatig him on the +/- rating scale that is used by a lot of bball scouts and front office people. I see him as a zero. I just don't see him doing a whole lot but that could be due to his role or just what they expect him to do.

I understand that his role right now is to come in, hold serve, not make a mistake on defense, run the offense and ideally knock a three down if he is open, until the starter is ready to re-enter. That being said, he might be doing all of these except knocking shots down. He is a role player at best. Nothing personal and I am sure he is a great kid, with a team first attitude but I think he is will never be the type of kid to log huge minutes and be a major contributor to an upper echelon B1G team. That is why I would prefer Fleming be getting those minutes. Maybe Fleming is not coachable yet or willing to do what Brady does. However, I do think getting Brady's minutes now would put him that much farther ahead for next year as I see him as a major contributor next year and beyond.

 

[twindman]

I will probably get bashed for this. Where do you all get the "we have a lot of talent coming up"? Yes, probably more athleticism than in the past. One 4 star, no 5 stars. And every other team fans think they have talent coming up too. I expect a competitive team and maybe 8-10 conference wins. Just my opinion.

 

[revkev73]

I am not claiming anything, don't need to prove anything...just don't like to shut the door on possibilities and future potential. Next year's team could win the national title...Right?

As well as MG, Sapp, Whitie play at times...they aren't earth shattering talents...what in the world will we do without them talents...Uthoff is a unique talent, above the other three...difficult to replace.

I would love to see how much talent there is, on the court next year, without closing the door right now...avoiding words such as never, no way, homer stupidity, etc... Anyone on this board can think next year's team won't be anywhere near as good...I prefer to think a different way. I see lots of talent waiting to blossom...and am excited about it. We will see...

 

[EduNeerHawk]

The aura of this year's team needs to be duplicated by next year's to find the success we've found early. Teamwork and team first mentality. Passing the ball. Doggedness on defense and intensity. Having your buddies back in a scrape.

When Utey isn't hitting or is in foul trouble, Jok is there. Or Gesell. Or Baer. Or Uhl. With everyone else chipping in with this or that. Clemmons is glue. Whol's the AC for next year? Guys like that get overlooked and will be hugely missed.

The coaches always work their asses off trying to put the best team on the floor. This year, a lot of the pieces have fallen in their lap. So far, this is a really magical season and should teach everyone what happens when hard work and creating breaks for yourself collide.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two things people have mentioned as being our major handicaps for next year - Team Chemistry & Experience.

I will note that there will be more chemistry than most will think. By the time next season starts- Uhl, Baer, Jok, Williams, Ellingson, Fleming, Moss, Hutton, Wagner and Jones will have spent no less than a year and a half together. They will know each others game, their strengths, their tendencies, their weaknesses, their movements, their skillsets. That should not be taken lightly, IMO.

They will all have well over a year of being in Fran's system and tutelage. They will have an understanding of what is needed by each position, and each player. Will they have a lot of gametime experience? Not most. But they will have some experience. There will be 8 players that have played minutes for the Hawkeyes when next season begins. That is more than that overrated team to the west has on their roster, or the one that beat them from the north. Both are down to 7.
Think about that....

Now let's sit back and enjoy this season unfold. Looking kicka$$ so far! Love me some Hawkeyes!

These two posts are very good........imo

Listen to Jordan Bohannon's vid on the front page and when Tom asks him about this years Hawkeyes, one of the first things he notes or notices is just how well the team "trusts" each other with their play and of course how much fun it is to watch them knock down shots and shoot the ball.

The "trust' part is huge playing winning basketball with the talent....we saw this last year watching that Wisky team play ball.

I do like 69's thought about this very talented group of players having a year and half being together. Pay attention to this thought. This coaching staff teaches and develops BB talent as good as any other coaching staff in the country. I trust they are doing this now with this group already on campus and coming back next year with those true frosh added. I just hope Jones can come back from his injury? Can you imagine if we had his shooting with this team today? Dang it.......

 

[hooper56]

There is a better than good chance that Jones becomes an ELITE player. He is really good. Moss will be very good as well. We will be a team made to play fast.

 

[revkev73]

Elite is good...perennial top 10 team with elite talent.

 

[EduNeerHawk]

There is a better than good chance that Jones becomes an ELITE player. He is really good. Moss will be very good as well. We will be a team made to play fast.

I agree with this. The way Jones was starting to light it up from beyond the 3 before he got hurt was enough for me to see he could become an elite player. I've been big on Moss, not only as a talent but like CWilliams, he's a big player physically. He was just as tall as his HS teammate Morrow at Nebby. Plays above the rim and dunks with ease but has a real smooth outside shot. Moss is a bucket maker and just finds a way to finish when he drives to the hoop.

 

[hackeysack]

What is happening to this thread? Everyone please come back to reality.

 

[revkev73]

You are correct Hackey...Fran's first speech to the new team this fall..."I don't care how hard you have worked, how good you have become, how talented you all are...there is no way in hell you will ever, ever, every be as good as last year's team...so, don't get your hopes up...just go through the motions and try to win 8 games in the conference and I will be happy...OK...let's get to work and be below average...you read the Iowa posters on rivals last January. Get back to reality."

 

[RocknRollface]

I agree on Ellingson. Not a fan of his game so far. In evaluatig him on the +/- rating scale that is used by a lot of bball scouts and front office people. I see him as a zero. I just don't see him doing a whole lot but that could be due to his role or just what they expect him to do.

I understand that his role right now is to come in, hold serve, not make a mistake on defense, run the offense and ideally knock a three down if he is open, until the starter is ready to re-enter. That being said, he might be doing all of these except knocking shots down. He is a role player at best. Nothing personal and I am sure he is a great kid, with a team first attitude but I think he is will never be the type of kid to log huge minutes and be a major contributor to an upper echelon B1G team. That is why I would prefer Fleming be getting those minutes. Maybe Fleming is not coachable yet or willing to do what Brady does. However, I do think getting Brady's minutes now would put him that much farther ahead for next year as I see him as a major contributor next year and beyond.

I'm not real high on Ellingson either but he's a better option than Flemming right now.

I'd rather see Williams jump ahead in the rotation.

 

[hackeysack]

You are correct Hackey...Fran's first speech to the new team this fall..."I don't care how hard you have worked, how good you have become, how talented you all are...there is no way in hell you will ever, ever, every be as good as last year's team...so, don't get your hopes up...just go through the motions and try to win 8 games in the conference and I will be happy...OK...let's get to work and be below average...you read the Iowa posters on rivals last January. Get back to reality."

Don't be ridiculous. All I'm saying is the superlatives have gotten out of control on this board. Do you have any understanding of what elite is? Could Dale Jones be an elite player? Sure. What is the percent liklihood Dale Jones becomes an elite player in his (currently one) more year of eligibility? Not "better than good" as stated above. More like <5%. There are over 4500 D1 players on scholarship. Dale Jones is not, and highly likely will not become, even a top 100 player, let alone "elite."

Clearly the coach encourages his players to work as hard as possible. But Fran isn't delusional in thinking that a reserve juco transfer who hit a few three pointers is somehow going to magically become an ELITE player by next year or even the year after (should he get an extra year). Or that because we strung together a few elite wins in the last few weeks that we are now "a perennial top 10 team with elite talent," to quote you.

So it's great that you are so full of optimism. But let's not embarrass ourselves by letting the superlatives get out of control.

 

[revkev73]

I don't recall saying Jones is elite, nor am I full of optimism...I simply like to keep the door open for potential, and for success...

No...never...1-100...door slammers, all...

I do think Fran is leading Iowa to be perennial top ten program...and I believe he thinks he can do it...I do too...

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

I don't recall saying Jones is elite, nor am I full of optimism...I simply like to keep the door open for potential, and for success...

No...never...1-100...door slammers, all...

I do think Fran is leading Iowa to be perennial top ten program...and I believe he thinks he can do it...I do too...

Jones was looking really good, before the injury. He played with confidence. Had a great shot. Moved well on the floor. Played good D. And rebounded well. Let's hope for a 100% recovery. He is missed. But Baer to the rescue.

We have a lot of decent players. Good-to-very good players. Not many teams can say that of their total rosters from 1 to 13(14)...


Fran has Iowa stuck on repeat mode. It's like Groundhog's Day.

Love it...

 

[The Sleeping Dog]

Very good programs and coaches replace talent but almost everyone experiences transition years. We are not a top 25 program, yet but not far outside. Next season will be pretty indicative of where the Hawks stand.

Dr. Davis had transitions years every three years. We are graduating what can still be the winningest class in school history. Its likely that their worst finish will be the NIT finals. That is a ton of talent and a ton of experience to replace.

So we shouldn't take a big step backward next season but expectations that these untested players will play at the level of this season's seniors are probably unrealistic as well.

Kids typically lose a few big ones before they start winning the big ones.

 

[twindman]

I wasn't speaking to you specifically. I also am not closing the door to anything next year. I just wanted to point out that every team's fans think they have great talent coming in. And several of those teams have better incoming players (on paper) than we do.

I am not claiming anything, don't need to prove anything...just don't like to shut the door on possibilities and future potential. Next year's team could win the national title...Right?

As well as MG, Sapp, Whitie play at times...they aren't earth shattering talents...what in the world will we do without them talents...Uthoff is a unique talent, above the other three...difficult to replace.

I would love to see how much talent there is, on the court next year, without closing the door right now...avoiding words such as never, no way, homer stupidity, etc... Anyone on this board can think next year's team won't be anywhere near as good...I prefer to think a different way. I see lots of talent waiting to blossom...and am excited about it. We will see...

I am not claiming anything, don't need to prove anything...just don't like to shut the door on possibilities and future potential. Next year's team could win the national title...Right?

As well as MG, Sapp, Whitie play at times...they aren't earth shattering talents...what in the world will we do without them talents...Uthoff is a unique talent, above the other three...difficult to replace.

I would love to see how much talent there is, on the court next year, without closing the door right now...avoiding words such as never, no way, homer stupidity, etc... Anyone on this board can think next year's team won't be anywhere near as good...I prefer to think a different way. I see lots of talent waiting to blossom...and am excited about it. We will see...

 

[rbh74]

I wasn't speaking to you specifically. I also am not closing the door to anything next year. I just wanted to point out that every team's fans think they have great talent coming in. And several of those teams have better incoming players (on paper) than we do.

Right but those teams have Crean, Groce, Pitino, etc. developing those players.

 

[revkev73]

Every team's fans think they have great talent coming in?...I don't recall thinking that much with All-World Alford or Licklighter...or is it just me? Iowa has some proven talent that will be back...it isn't just ***** rating...Uhl, Baer, Jok, Williams, Wagner, all seem able to play above their **** ratings...now. Others in the stable? Well, kind of think that Fran has some developing and chomping at the bit as we speak.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

I will probably get bashed for this. Where do you all get the "we have a lot of talent coming up"? Yes, probably more athleticism than in the past. One 4 star, no 5 stars. And every other team fans think they have talent coming up too. I expect a competitive team and maybe 8-10 conference wins. Just my opinion.

I agree I think we will be a good team next year, but we are losing a lot of experience off this years team. I realize you still have to play the game, but having that experience of playing on the road before and being in those area's before helps.

Next year I think Iowa will be a good team, I think we will be a bubble team with more likely ending up in the NIT. Which is fine, beings we will only have 1-2 seniors.

 

[bouma1415]

One of the strengths of this years team is toughness, defensively. Clemmons and Gesell lead the toughness at the top and Woody at the bottom. Uthoff with his length and quickness, along with his shot blocking adds to that toughness. Jok has improved tremendously on toughness this year. Uhl and Baer are savy...to tough.

Graduate a lot of toughness next year(and Izzo pointed out how important that toughness is). So next year, who steps up in the toughness zone. Jok, Uhl, Baer and Wagner all will give you that toughness. Going to assume Hutton fits into that category. Dale Jones was questioned at the beginning of the year on the defensive effort. He is a question mark until he proves differently. Ellingson and Fleming are question marks on toughness. Both appear to be smart/savy, but can they step up the toughness. Moss is another unknown.

Freshmen: Assuming Cook will have it by his size and athleticism. Pemsl, Kreiner and Bohannon will be unkowns. One to two of the freshmen will probably show some "toughness" ability like Wagner does this year.

This year I see 8 "tough" mentally/defensively players. But at this point I only see 4 definites for next year. Next year will be a wait and see. And at this time last year, we would have not considered Jok, Baer and Uhl on this list, so improvements can be made.

 

[revkev73]

IMHO...toughness is transferable...Baer shared and received that last year, as a red shirt...others who are part of the team, yet not playing at this point...also will be infected...it starts at the top, with the coach...his teaching of this important attribute is on going...we are starting to see the results this year...it won't disappear next year with younger players...it will be even stronger, up and down the lineup of Franatic players. Izzo commented on this, yes? Fran has been tough, but not so much the players...that has changed.

 

[bouma1415]

IMHO...toughness is transferable...Baer shared and received that last year, as a red shirt...others who are part of the team, yet not playing at this point...also will be infected...it starts at the top, with the coach...his teaching of this important attribute is on going...we are starting to see the results this year...it won't disappear next year with younger players...it will be even stronger, up and down the lineup of Franatic players. Izzo commented on this, yes? Fran has been tough, but not so much the players...that has changed.

I just don't think there is a guarantee of this. Look at MSU this year. they had a few players that showed no toughness the last 2 games. Can't predict who will build the toughness, and who won't. Uthoff didn't have it completely until this year. Had it some games last year, but not every game. He has it this year.