Ohio State Forcing 4 Star RB to Grey Shirt

[iowalaw]

It's pretty disgusting how the rich just keep getting richer in recruiting. OSU has had a 4 star RB committed to their 2017 class for quite some time...but now that their scholarships are filling up, they've asked him to take a grey shirt. This guy is one of the top RBs in the country who could be the top recruit in most recruiting classes.

I sure hope he decommits and sticks it to those guys. I know we don't need him in our class anymore, but it's a shame to see a school treat people like that. The Harbaugh effect.

http://www.landgrantholyland.com/20...ibley-leonard-taylor-blaine-scott-urban-meyer

 

[spbc7]

Decommitting definitely wouldn't be "sticking it" to OSU

 

[scotthawk1964]

Just think how good the Hawkeyes would be each year if we had that kind of problem, having to ask 4* recruits to take a gray shirt. I think that alone should tell some of the people who come to this forum why Iowa isn't in the same class with the Ohio States of the football world, and why 10 or 12 wins every year aren't feasible.

 

[whatsup13579er]

Just think how good the Hawkeyes would be each year if we had that kind of problem, having to ask 4* recruits to take a gray shirt. I think that alone should tell some of the people who come to this forum why Iowa isn't in the same class with the Ohio States of the football world, and why 10 or 12 wins every year aren't feasible.

If Iowa was swimming in 4* and 5* recruits, the culture of the program would be completely different. Typically, Iowa kids are borderline P5 guys with a few studs sprinkled in. I think that is why it works. Heck even look at Iowa's stud recruits. They typically don't have offers from the blue bloods. So KF can use the same chip on the shoulder mentality that he uses with the borderline P5 guys.

*Edit: Changed D1 to P5.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

It is pretty disgusting, but that's the nature of the beast. College football is a big-money business, and many of these kids are treated as business assets until they are expendable. The whole concept of "student athlete" is a joke at places like Ohio State and other blue blood programs. It kind of reminds me of a Rodney Dangerfield quote: "Would good is being the best when it brings out the worst in you."

If there is a plus side to this, hopefully some of these kids will wise up and stop giving early commitments to places like Ohio State where they are treated as expendable business assets and start looking at other programs where coaches still believe in honor and integrity--clearly foreign concepts at places like O$U.

 

[nu2u]

Typically, Iowa kids are borderline D1 guys with a few studs sprinkled in

Not true, not even close. The only borderline Division1 players on Iowa's roster are walk-ons and a good portion of those players have D1 offers. Name a scholarship player on Iowa's team other than a punter who should be considered a borderline D1 football player.

 

[whatsup13579er]

Not true, not even close. The only borderline Division1 players on Iowa's roster are walk-ons and a good portion of those players have D1 offers. Name a scholarship player on Iowa's team other than a punter who should be considered a borderline D1 football player.

Borderline P5 recruits, not borderline D1 players is what I meant to say. Obviously Iowa has tons of very good D1 players but a lot of those guys were borderline P5 recruits. I know that is a large jump from borderline D1 to borderline P5. My bad.

 

[klemman]

No one is forcing the kid to do anything. They asked him to gray shirt. He can choose to do so, or choose to go elsewhere. And yes, the programs like OSU are trying to get the most talented group of prospects as possible. Despite all the accusations of If a player doesn't want to be in that type of environment then they should go somewhere else.

Either way, I hope the kid finds the program in which he feels the most comfortable and allows him to meet his goals.

As far as OSU and the accusations.... All I can say is that OSU has a higher APR score and higher graduation rates than Iowa, while also having less arrests. That's not to put down the Hwakeye program because It's a fine school that has had some very good student/athletes. I'm just putting things in perspective.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Decommitting definitely wouldn't be "sticking it" to OSU

I think he was thinking of something a little more dramatic like transfer to another team on their schedule and beat them....or steal a bulldozer and wreck their stadium.

Now THAT would be sticking it to them. Good talk.

 

[Rustys Dad]

Schools like Ohio State, Michigan, Alabama, Auburn ... etc., have 4 stars falling out of their lockerrooms. At least we don't have the hassle of worrying about THAT happening to us! Thank God! (sarcasm) ...

Coaches like Harbaugh, Saban, Meyer, and many others across the country, simply see these kids as a means to an end and if they can't produce for them (i.e. injury, etc) take 'em out back and shoot 'em ... It's all about the kids ... you know ...

While I don't care for either Harbaugh or Meyer, I do applaud them for making the Big 10 relevant again in the big business that is college football ... Yes, the rich get richer, and that's simply the way it is now in college football ... But at least some of that richness is leaving the SEC and moving into Big 10 country ...

 

[milehighhawkeye24]

No one is forcing the kid to do anything. They asked him to gray shirt. He can choose to do so, or choose to go elsewhere. And yes, the programs like OSU are trying to get the most talented group of prospects as possible. Despite all the accusations of If a player doesn't want to be in that type of environment then they should go somewhere else.

Either way, I hope the kid finds the program in which he feels the most comfortable and allows him to meet his goals.

As far as OSU and the accusations.... All I can say is that OSU has a higher APR score and higher graduation rates than Iowa, while also having less arrests. That's not to put down the Hwakeye program because It's a fine school that has had some very good student/athletes. I'm just putting things in perspective.

Those #'s are so fabricated it is not funny, look at the top 25 schools and all the violations of many of those schools. Hell UNC basketball claims 85% grad rates and we know how that all went down....

 

[Gridiron24]

OSU is a hot program right now and they know it. They hold all the cards, whether it be with the NCAA in rules making, television deals, primetime games, merchandising rights, etc.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

As far as OSU and the accusations.... All I can say is that OSU has a higher APR score and higher graduation rates than Iowa, while also having less arrests. That's not to put down the Hwakeye program because It's a fine school that has had some very good student/athletes. I'm just putting things in perspective.

Those statistics, if even true, can be very misleading. As we have seen in the news plenty of times before, "student athletes" are given different standards at different schools, which could ultimately explain why graduation rates and academic achievement is higher elsewhere.

Oh, and perhaps in Columbus, the police look the other way. Trust me, it happens.

All that said, I'm sure there are plenty of quality kids who excel academically (meaning they legitimately do their own work) while playing football for OSU. Just adding more perspective for you.

 

[hawkbleeder]

If a 4* accepts a gray shirt that would be something, doubt it happens. Must be nice to be tOSU when it comes to recruiting, wow. We want them to beat the SEC though boys so it's all good.

 

[H4wkfan4life]

It's not like they pulled a harbaugh. He can still be a buckeye....he also has PLENTY of time to find another school if he wants.

Still tacky though.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Just think how good the Hawkeyes would be each year if we had that kind of problem, having to ask 4* recruits to take a gray shirt. I think that alone should tell some of the people who come to this forum why Iowa isn't in the same class with the Ohio States of the football world, and why 10 or 12 wins every year aren't feasible.

And I sure hope Iowa would never do it. Offer a kid, he orally accepts it and he keeps it through signing (with a few more criteria - not visiting schools, etc.)

Problem is, they are kids extremely excited and selfish (rightfully so) about their future, so it isn't like this guy cares whether kids get grayshirted - he just doesn't want it to be him. So they keep committing, arrogantly believing it won't be them.

 

[theIowaHawk]

No one is forcing the kid to do anything. They asked him to gray shirt. He can choose to do so, or choose to go elsewhere..

Am I misunderstanding? Didn't they offer him a scholarship, he "accepted" prior to the date he can sign, and now they are changing what they offer?

Or do they just offer recruits the "potential" of a scholarship? Other than honor, pride, and self-respect, there isn't anything to govern it though, because if it was governed it would simply be signing day. But, I would be in favor of the Big Ten requiring the rules similar to what Iowa appears to do, that once an offer is tendered and "accepted", only the recruit can back out.

But Big Ten fans won't like that, because even though this practice doesn't really benefit 90% of teams, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and they don't want Ohio State and, say, Michigan losing out to the SEC more so than Iowa losing out to OSU.

 

[SigMaintHawk]

Am I misunderstanding? Didn't they offer him a scholarship, he "accepted" prior to the date he can sign, and now they are changing what they offer?

Or do they just offer recruits the "potential" of a scholarship? Other than honor, pride, and self-respect, there isn't anything to govern it though, because if it was governed it would simply be signing day. But, I would be in favor of the Big Ten requiring the rules similar to what Iowa appears to do, that once an offer is tendered and "accepted", only the recruit can back out.

But Big Ten fans won't like that, because even though this practice doesn't really benefit 90% of teams, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and they don't want Ohio State and, say, Michigan losing out to the SEC more so than Iowa losing out to OSU.

Iowa offered Jack Beneventini,Austin Vincent, and Jyaz Jones scholarships. They all accepted Iowa's offer. You think they are the one's that "backed out"?

 

[theIowaHawk]

Iowa offered Jack Beneventini,Austin Vincent, and Jyaz Jones scholarships. They all accepted Iowa's offer. You think they are the one's that "backed out"?

Yes, as a matter of fact, at least only to the QB. The article made it clear, iirc, that the offer was still good, but they gave their thoughts on him and how he would be used and discussed frankly his future. He chose to move on.

If I'm mis-remembering, feel free to show me otherwise. Haven't even heard of the other two.

Edit: Google took me to this BHGP article which certainly makes that less clear and says they pulled Jones' scholarship. http://www.blackheartgoldpants.com/...wkeyes-recruiting-jack-beneventi-decommitment

Obviously I am against that, I am not against discussing a recruits future in a frank and disappointing (to them) way. That is being a good coach. Maybe that is what Ohio State did, I certainly don't know.

His quote: "They are pressuring me more along the lines of not going to Iowa."

This from BHGP: "Pulling a scholarship from a committed player is basically unheard of at Iowa. The coaches raised some eyebrows when they pulled a scholarship from safety recruit Jyaz Jones last year, but there was considerable disagreement over whether he actually had an unconditional offer at the time he announced his commitment. Otherwise, we can't remember anyone having a scholarship pulled in the seven years we've been doing this."

 

[SigMaintHawk]

Yes, as a matter of fact, at least only to the QB. The article made it clear, iirc, that the offer was still good, but they gave their thoughts on him and how he would be used and discussed frankly his future. He chose to move on.

If I'm mis-remembering, feel free to show me otherwise. Haven't even heard of the other two.

Edit: Google took me to this BHGP article which certainly makes that less clear and says they pulled Jones' scholarship. http://www.blackheartgoldpants.com/...wkeyes-recruiting-jack-beneventi-decommitment

Obviously I am against that, I am not against discussing a recruits future in a frank and disappointing (to them) way. That is being a good coach. Maybe that is what Ohio State did, I certainly don't know.

His quote: "They are pressuring me more along the lines of not going to Iowa."

This from BHGP: "Pulling a scholarship from a committed player is basically unheard of at Iowa. The coaches raised some eyebrows when they pulled a scholarship from safety recruit Jyaz Jones last year, but there was considerable disagreement over whether he actually had an unconditional offer at the time he announced his commitment. Otherwise, we can't remember anyone having a scholarship pulled in the seven years we've been doing this."

Pretty sure KJ Sails had his offer pulled last year..I'm not a 100% sure on the reason,but I think some posters alluded to the fact that the staff made the correct call on this one.

 

[SigMaintHawk]

What is an "unconditional offer"?...I'm sure KF has made some comments about his thoughts on what type of offer Iowa grants to prospects...

 

[EZ2BJZ]

Pretty sure KJ Sails had his offer pulled last year..I'm not a 100% sure on the reason,but I think some posters alluded to the fact that the staff made the correct call on this one.

It depends on the situation. If a kid has academic or character issues revealed after the offer has been made and accepted, then I think that's a much different situation then say rescinding the offer because you want to save room for bigger fish. Since the kid was offered gray shirt status, it doesn't sound like the offer being rescinded was any fault of his per se other than being perceived by the coaches as no longer talented enough

In short, if you're not going to stand by your scholarship offer (unless extenuating circumstances justify it), don't offer in the first place. Period.

 

[theIowaHawk]

It depends on the situation. If a kid has academic or character issues revealed after the offer has been made and accepted, then I think that's a much different situation then say rescinding the offer because you want to save room for bigger fish. Since the kid was offered gray shirt status, it doesn't sound like the offer being rescinded was any fault of his per se other than being perceived by the coaches as no longer talented enough

In short, if you're not going to stand by your scholarship offer (unless extenuating circumstances justify it), don't offer in the first place. Period.

Yeah this is the difficult part in "governing" the offers, as in what does it take to revoke, and is probably best left to the schools. I, personally, don't approve of what is being portrayed here for OSU, and I hope Iowa's staff isn't doing similar, but again I don't know the details.

Also, I thought Sails went and visited other schools, but clearly I'm not up on the recruiting scene as Sig.

I would guess that an "unconditional offer" is saying, "we are offering you a scholarship", as opposed to saying things like, we want you and are interested, but are still looking around, or even conditioning it on something specific, like scores or something. Obviously they talk to a lot of kids without offering, so they must have good ways of telling them they are interested without offering a scholly unconditionally.

 

[SigMaintHawk]

It depends on the situation. If a kid has academic or character issues revealed after the offer has been made and accepted, then I think that's a much different situation then say rescinding the offer because you want to save room for bigger fish. Since the kid was offered gray shirt status, it doesn't sound like the offer being rescinded was any fault of his per se other than being perceived by the coaches as no longer talented enough

In short, if you're not going to stand by your scholarship offer (unless extenuating circumstances justify it), don't offer in the first place. Period.

I tend to agree...To KF's credit, Iowa has stood by kids that suffered injuries in high school and still honored the offer.. Kids that didn't play as seniors in high school. Some schools find ways to "part company", so to speak..Heck, KF offered a kid a free education at Iowa after it was discovered the kid prolly wouldn't be cleared by the medical staff to play football at Iowa. Again,prolly some schools that would not honor this kid's offer after that was found out.

 

[milehighhawkeye24]

When we went to the summer bbq with a few players that were being lightly recuited, the Iowa football staff made it a point to point out that their grad rates and APR are in fact accurate and tell the whole story. THey did not say any school in particular, but they did tell the parents and coaches there that often times the #'s that are reported are not accurate at many institutions. They said it like 5 times

 

[Titanhawk2]

It's pretty disgusting how the rich just keep getting richer in recruiting. OSU has had a 4 star RB committed to their 2017 class for quite some time...but now that their scholarships are filling up, they've asked him to take a grey shirt. This guy is one of the top RBs in the country who could be the top recruit in most recruiting classes.

I sure hope he decommits and sticks it to those guys. I know we don't need him in our class anymore, but it's a shame to see a school treat people like that. The Harbaugh effect.

http://www.landgrantholyland.com/20...ibley-leonard-taylor-blaine-scott-urban-meyer

Just because he's a 4* means he shouldn't be a gray shirt? Are gray shirts limited to guys that ought to be in D2 to start? I am sure the walk-ons at Alabama, OSU and other would make a fairly good team talent wise.

 

[klemman]

Those statistics, if even true, can be very misleading. As we have seen in the news plenty of times before, "student athletes" are given different standards at different schools, which could ultimately explain why graduation rates and academic achievement is higher elsewhere.

Oh, and perhaps in Columbus, the police look the other way. Trust me, it happens.

All that said, I'm sure there are plenty of quality kids who excel academically (meaning they legitimately do their own work) while playing football for OSU. Just adding more perspective for you.

Appreciate the "perspective" EZ2, and I agree with your comments. Those statistics are true, and the can be very misleading. They can also be ignored to fit biased narratives. As you mention there are plenty of quality kids who play for the Buckeyes who excel academically. There are also some players who are only there for the football and participate in the limited amount of academics to stay eligible.Both are legal approaches. My earlier statement was more for those who like to make generalized statements because it serves as an excuse for why some teams do well and others don't.

 

[klemman]

I tend to agree...To KF's credit, Iowa has stood by kids that suffered injuries in high school and still honored the offer.. Kids that didn't play as seniors in high school. Some schools find ways to "part company", so to speak..Heck, KF offered a kid a free education at Iowa after it was discovered the kid prolly wouldn't be cleared by the medical staff to play football at Iowa. Again,prolly some schools that would not honor this kid's offer after that was found out.

Actually, very few players have their scholarships pulled if they were offered, accepted, and get injured while in Highschool. Now if they didn't commit the offer might be pulled. Since unlike the NFL, college coaches, trainers, and physicians cannot exam a player until he is enrolled without permission, they can't evaluate the player. Once on campus the player may be able to leave the team but still get the free education.

 

[thatsmy2cents]

Just think how good the Hawkeyes would be each year if we had that kind of problem, having to ask 4* recruits to take a gray shirt. I think that alone should tell some of the people who come to this forum why Iowa isn't in the same class with the Ohio States of the football world, and why 10 or 12 wins every year aren't feasible.

However, we don't play OSU every year. Next year we should be favored in a minimum of 8 games and probably more. Win the non-conference and Minny, Purdue, Illinois, NW, and Rutgers you have 8 wins. Win only 2 of Wisky, Neb, PSU and Mich and we have 10.

I maintain we should win most of our out of conference, most of our division and be very competitive with most of the other division, outside of OSU and maybe Mich (who we have a history of playing well)

Just think how good the Hawkeyes would be each year if we had that kind of problem, having to ask 4* recruits to take a gray shirt. I think that alone should tell some of the people who come to this forum why Iowa isn't in the same class with the Ohio States of the football world, and why 10 or 12 wins every year aren't feasible.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

Appreciate the "perspective" EZ2, and I agree with your comments. Those statistics are true, and the can be very misleading. They can also be ignored to fit biased narratives. As you mention there are plenty of quality kids who play for the Buckeyes who excel academically. There are also some players who are only there for the football and participate in the limited amount of academics to stay eligible.Both are legal approaches. My earlier statement was more for those who like to make generalized statements because it serves as an excuse for why some teams do well and others don't.

I agree. A lot of sentiment comes from sour grapes.

 

[iowalaw]

We did do it once last year to a kid brian ferentz recruited. Qb recruit named benevetti who was benched by his own hs team in Illinois. His Scholly was rightfully pulled even tho he didn't get injured, as he wasn't a d 1 talent and peaked as a Soph in hs. The OSU grey shirt is a 4 star stud who is the star of his conference.

 

[HerkysDad]

If OSU is always looking to trade up when available, why would any talented kid who,aspires to go to the NFL want to commit to there? After telling all your friends you got an offer from the elite school, suddenly having the rug pull from under you can be demoralizing.

 

[spbc7]

If OSU is always looking to trade up when available, why would any talented kid who,aspires to go to the NFL want to commit to there? After telling all your friends you got an offer from the elite school, suddenly having the rug pull from under you can be demoralizing.

Maybe because they send kids to the NFL by the boatload? If a kid having an offer pulled is demoralizing to them and doesn't become a driving factor, do you think they really will be that successful in the long run?

 

[Titanhawk2]

We did do it once last year to a kid brian ferentz recruited. Qb recruit named benevetti who was benched by his own hs team in Illinois. His Scholly was rightfully pulled even tho he didn't get injured, as he wasn't a d 1 talent and peaked as a Soph in hs. The OSU grey shirt is a 4 star stud who is the star of his conference.

He had an offer pulled, not a scholarship.

 

[klemman]

The other thing to keep in mind is this is maybe the second time a player has been asked to gray shirt at OSU the past 20 years. Maybe one or two that have slipped my mind but even if we are saying 4 the past 20 recruiting classes, which means if the average recruiting class is 20-25 recruits, this happens right around 1% of the time.

 

[theIowaHawk]

The other thing to keep in mind is this is maybe the second time a player has been asked to gray shirt at OSU the past 20 years. Maybe one or two that have slipped my mind but even if we are saying 4 the past 20 recruiting classes, which means if the average recruiting class is 20-25 recruits, this happens right around 1% of the time.

Yes, the complaints are about the coach more than the school. Thought that was obvious. He has brought recruiting tactics that many in the Big Ten believe to be dubious (when other schools do it).

 

[klemman]

Yes, the complaints are about the coach more than the school. Thought that was obvious. He has brought recruiting tactics that many in the Big Ten believe to be dubious (when other schools do it).

What tactics? Be specific.

 

[theIowaHawk]

What tactics? Be specific.

Enjoy yourself, hoss.

 

[klemman]

Iowahawk, I'm not being facetious, just wanted to respond accurately to your general comment.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

I feel no sympathy for the player and don't blame UM at all.

So, this kid has to gray-shirt? BFD. How many kids would give up 5 years of their lives to play for tOSU and didn't get any kind of an offer? How many kids would give anything to be a D1 football player and just aren't good enough? How about the # of kids that simply dream of an opportunity to go to college and can't? Or, get to go to college an roll up 6 figures in debt?

This kid is living a dream only a few ever realize. If he doesn't want to gray-shirt, he could go to a few dozen other schools with a full ride.

As for Meyer, he is simply following the rules allowed to make his FB team better. Isn't that what he is supposed to do? Most everyone on this board calls CFB a business, then some are shocked when someone actually proves that it is a business.