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Olympic trial seeds

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Omahahawk86

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Sep 16, 2015
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Pre seeds are out and pretty disappointing.

Taylor and Dake are the 2/3 seed and the all mighty Herbert is the one. I was really hoping they could get on opposite sides.

57 kilos-killer draw for Tony. He'll have the 8 seed NATO in the quarters and then Coleman Scott. I don't think we match up well with Scott. I was hoping Scott would be on Dennis's side bc he has beaten him a few times in a row. Dennis has Graff on his side who he lost to earlier this year. It'd be nice if Ramos and DD were switched here. I think we will see Nashon go on a run here. I hope Tony doesn't have him first round.

65 kilos-this weight is just crazy. James Green got the 2 seed. It'll be interesting to see how he does.
 
Omahahawk86 said:
Pre seeds are out and pretty disappointing.

Taylor and Dake are the 2/3 seed and the all mighty Herbert is the one. I was really hoping they could get on opposite sides.

57 kilos-killer draw for Tony. He'll have the 8 seed NATO in the quarters and then Coleman Scott. I don't think we match up well with Scott. I was hoping Scott would be on Dennis's side bc he has beaten him a few times in a row. Dennis has Graff on his side who he lost to earlier this year. It'd be nice if Ramos and DD were switched here. I think we will see Nashon go on a run here. I hope Tony doesn't have him first round.

65 kilos-this weight is just crazy. James Green got the 2 seed. It'll be interesting to see how he does.
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Gotta beat everyone to make the team anyway. IMO if Ramos and Nato meet, Nato will block off ALOT.
 
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The seeds look about right to me - although I would agree that Herbert at #1 is a bummer. Maybe Cox can get on his side of the bracket and knock him out. 65 KG is going to be alot of fun - I got a feeling it's going to be Metcalf and Striebler in the final.
 
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Anyone have any idea about what time Ramos and Dennis be wrestling?
Is it after all these matches going on now to see who moves on?
Sorry this old fart confused again.
 
Thanks jackhawk87 dam I'm stupid sometimes thought are guys had qualified already :oops:
 
Chopper25 said:
Gotta beat everyone to make the team anyway. IMO if Ramos and Nato meet, Nato will block off ALOT.
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No you don't have to beat everyone. You only have to beat the guy in front of you. Your crazy if you don't think match ups matter. I don't have a very good feeling about Ramos Matching up with Coleman Scott. I don't think I would be alone on that one. I would have much preferred him to be on Dennis's side because he has proved repeatedly that he can beat him.

Nato is 10x more offensive than Ramos. That has been the knock on Ramos for a long time. He's extremely stingy and hard to score on. His offense is limited. If Ramos and Nato meet it shouldn't be close unless Ramos allows it to be.
 
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Omahahawk86 said:
No you don't have to beat everyone. You only have to beat the guy in front of you. Your crazy if you don't think match ups matter. I don't have a very good feeling about Ramos Matching up with Coleman Scott. I don't think I would be alone on that one. I would have much preferred him to be on Dennis's side because he has proved repeatedly that he can beat him.

Nato is 10x more offensive than Ramos. That has been the knock on Ramos for a long time. He's extremely stingy and hard to score on. His offense is limited. If Ramos and Nato meet it shouldn't be close unless Ramos allows it to be.
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WTH?
 
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GableEdge said:
While Ramos has become more conservative on the international stage, saying NATO is "10x more offensive" is ridiculous and laughable.
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Ramos gets put on the shot clock literally every match at least once. He is as conservative as they come. He takes maybe 2-3 actual shots a match. This is not a bad thing. His finishing percentage is extremely high.

It may be laughable to you but Nato is extremely aggressive and will keep shooting that left handed high C all day. The bad thing for him is Ramos will score on him every crap shot he takes. This match won't be close. Ramos also has a very good gut wrench vs. the inexperienced college kid.
 
Omahahawk86 said:
Ramos gets put on the shot clock literally every match at least once. He is as conservative as they come. He takes maybe 2-3 actual shots a match. This is not a bad thing. His finishing percentage is extremely high.

It may be laughable to you but Nato is extremely aggressive and will keep shooting that left handed high C all day. The bad thing for him is Ramos will score on him every crap shot he takes. This match won't be close. Ramos also has a very good gut wrench vs. the inexperienced college kid.
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Well I wouldn't call NaTo inexperienced he's got a good freestyle resume and has been competing on the Senior Circuit for about a bit now
 
Your definition of offensive is offensive. Moving forward, controlling ties and high finish % is offensive and I guarantee your opinion is in the super minority (you're alone in thinking that NATO is 10x more offensive that I guarantee). I will agree that since transitioning to freestyle his shot ms have become much more selective as a natural evolution to the style.
 
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GableEdge said:
Your definition of offensive is offensive. Moving forward, controlling ties and high finish % is offensive and I guarantee your opinion is in the super minority (you're alone in thinking that NATO is 10x more offensive that I guarantee). I will agree that since transitioning to freestyle his shot ms have become much more selective as a natural evolution to the style.
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Agree to disagree. Minus the Gillman match I've always though NATO really got after it. He's a guy that keeps coming. Ramos is almost all defense and hand fighting. Basically bored you to sleep then hits his single. Guys that he should take fall he beats 2-1 3-1. It's not like he's a jb or Askren always looking to score. If they wrestled 100 times I would pick Ramos in everyone.
 
Coverage :

Wrestling

NBCSN will provide five hours of Trials coverage of the wrestling finals from Iowa City, Iowa, beginning Saturday, April 9, live at 7 p.m. ET. Coverage continues the following evening, Sunday, April 10, at 10:30 p.m. ET, following NHL coverage. Disciplines include men’s freestyle, women’s freestyle, and Greco-Roman.

Headlining the men’s freestyle competition is London gold medalist and three-time world champion Jordan Burroughs (74 kg). The 97 kg weight class will feature 2015 World Champion Kyle Snyder and 2012 Olympic champion Jake Varner. In women’s freestyle, three-time world champion Adeline Gray (75 kg) looks to make her first Olympic team.

Date

Coverage

Network

Time (ET)

Sat., April 9

Finals – Men’s & Women’s Freestyle, Greco-Roman

NBCSN

7 p.m.

Sun., April 10

Finals – Men’s & Women’s Freestyle, Greco-Roman

NBCSN

10:30 p.m
 
Omahahawk86 said:
Agree to disagree. Minus the Gillman match I've always though NATO really got after it. He's a guy that keeps coming. Ramos is almost all defense and hand fighting. Basically bored you to sleep then hits his single. Guys that he should take fall he beats 2-1 3-1. It's not like he's a jb or Askren always looking to score. If they wrestled 100 times I would pick Ramos in everyone.
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NATO doesn't get after it against elite competition...Same with Gilman. Same with Mega...oops, Mega got after it this time and good things happened for him.

Ramos is about picking his spots and not doing stupid shit...and controlling the center. Most guys get put on the clock in today's freestyle matches that go the whole time.
 
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Azchief32 said:
NATO doesn't get after it against elite competition...Same with Gilman. Same with Mega...oops, Mega got after it this time and good things happened for him.

Ramos is about picking his spots and not doing stupid shit...and controlling the center. Most guys get put on the clock in today's freestyle matches that go the whole time.
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That's kind of the name of the game in freestyle. Love it.

Wait 'til David Taylor meets Dake again - he'll wrestle just like Tony.
 
Azchief32 said:
NATO doesn't get after it against elite competition...Same with Gilman. Same with Mega...oops, Mega got after it this time and good things happened for him.

Ramos is about picking his spots and not doing stupid shit...and controlling the center. Most guys get put on the clock in today's freestyle matches that go the whole time.
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For The Most part yes with Ramos. I would consider trying to crotch lift Ramini last year in the quarters with 5 seconds left stupid. He also felt that way in his interview. Considering all he had to do was sit there for 5 seconds and he wins the match.

I shouldn't have said anything. This comes off as me being a NATO fan and not liking Ramos which is the complete opposite. I'll just rephrase it to, Ramos creates less action than a lot if other competitors. I think that's fair.
 
Omahahawk86 said:
For The Most part yes with Ramos. I would consider trying to crotch lift Ramini last year in the quarters with 5 seconds left stupid. He also felt that way in his interview. Considering all he had to do was sit there for 5 seconds and he wins the match.

I shouldn't have said anything. This comes off as me being a NATO fan and not liking Ramos which is the complete opposite. I'll just rephrase it to, Ramos creates less action than a lot if other competitors. I think that's fair.
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And Nato made a big mistake at the end of his match with Gilman, got stuck and lost his chance at being a 4 timer. Nato did not look that "offensive" to me at at. In fact after Nato took Gilman down early in a match last year he backed away for the last 4 min of that match. 10x more offensive than Ramos? Really? Also Rahimi is/was #1 or 2 in the whole world no?
 
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WildTurk said:
And Nato made a big mistake at the end of his match with Gilman, got stuck and lost his chance at being a 4 timer. Nato did not look that "offensive" to me at at. In fact after Nato took Gilman down early in a match last year he backed away for the last 4 min of that match. 10x more offensive than Ramos? Really? Also Rahimi is/was #1 or 2 in the whole world no?
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He is. Ramos had him beat. That's a good thing.
 
pumpdog20 said:
Getting put on the shot clock in international wrestling is not an indicator of who's the more aggressor. While I appreciate the purpose of the rule, there are a lot of WTF moments when they call passivity.
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Being put on the the shot clock is the consequence of being passive. It's 100% based on who is being the aggressor. If neither guy is doing anything usually they'll just pick the guy that hasn't stayed in the center. I think your wtf are when neither wrestler is making an attempt and the officials are forced to pick someone.
 
pumpdog20 said:
Getting put on the shot clock in international wrestling is not an indicator of who's the more aggressor. While I appreciate the purpose of the rule, there are a lot of WTF moments when they call passivity.
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Agree 100%. The shot clock is the one current freestyle rule that I oppose. Frequently, guys are put on the clock for no apparent reason. This is also such a 100% subjective call that it opens the door for corruption.
 
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WWDMHawkeye said:
Agree 100%. The shot clock is the one current freestyle rule that I oppose. Frequently, guys are put on the clock for no apparent reason. This is also such a 100% subjective call that it opens the door for corruption.
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Would you rather have the dreaded ball grab back? I think these are by far the best rules we've ever had and they are doing their best to force action and put points on the board. Id rather have a subjective call that costs me a point then the old referees decision crap. I would like to see OT though.
 
Omahahawk86 said:
Being put on the the shot clock is the consequence of being passive. It's 100% based on who is being the aggressor. If neither guy is doing anything usually they'll just pick the guy that hasn't stayed in the center. I think your wtf are when neither wrestler is making an attempt and the officials are forced to pick someone.
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WTH!
 
These are not the best rules. Just the best rules in the last 15 years. I think you realize your comment on NATO being 10x more offensive is your opinion alone and perceived as ridiculous and laughable by nearly everyone. My advice...drop it before it gets worse.
 
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Taylor/Dake might not even happen.

Dake is small for the weight and Perry might solve him in the quarters. Not sayin' it's going to happen, but, it's possible.
 
I will add, if Dake is our representative, we have ZERO shot at a medal: He has been tore back by even second tier guys on the world level and horsed.
 
GableEdge said:
These are not the best rules. Just the best rules in the last 15 years. I think you realize your comment on NATO being 10x more offensive is your opinion alone and perceived as ridiculous and laughable by nearly everyone. My advice...drop it before it gets worse.
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Especially when his evidence is Tony being put on the clock when every wrestler is put on the clock. Most of the time you have no idea why they chose who they did. There is also strategy involved getting put on the clock first.
 
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My evidence is the lack of points he scores.

So the strategy is to go on the clock first then hope they put him on the clock next so you win on criteria 1-1? Not a very good strategy.

It's pretty easy to identify who they are going to pick the majority of the time. If neither guy is doing crap they have to pick someone. There has to be a warning by 1 minute and someone has to be on the clock by the two minute mark.

Perry and Dake are not in the same weight class.
 
Omahahawk86 said:
Would you rather have the dreaded ball grab back? I think these are by far the best rules we've ever had and they are doing their best to force action and put points on the board. Id rather have a subjective call that costs me a point then the old referees decision crap. I would like to see OT though.
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The ball grab obviously isn't the only alternative to the current rules. I'm sure you realize that. Of course, the ball grab was one of the most ridiculous ideas ever to malign freestyle wrestling. Nobody in his/her right mind would want it back.

Currently, guys are put on the clock almost automatically. There can be a lot of action both ways, and the ref just seems to randomly put a guy on the clock. Clearly, they're being told that they're not doing their job if they're not putting someone on the clock every minute or two.

I'd just go to a more basic system. If it's clear that one guy is being passive, warn him and award a point to his opponent, maybe after a first warning, similar to folkstyle. But the current system of putting people on the shot clock is out of control as it's being called, IMO. That may be more of a habit of international refs. I'm curious to see how active the American refs are about putting guys on the shot clock this weekend.
 
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Omahahawk86 said:
Being put on the the shot clock is the consequence of being passive. It's 100% based on who is being the aggressor. If neither guy is doing anything usually they'll just pick the guy that hasn't stayed in the center. I think your wtf are when neither wrestler is making an attempt and the officials are forced to pick someone.
Click to expand...

No, that's the intent of the rule. That's not how it's called a lot of times.
 
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WWDMHawkeye said:
The ball grab obviously isn't the only alternative to the current rules. I'm sure you realize that. Of course, the ball grab was one of the most ridiculous ideas ever to malign freestyle wrestling. Nobody in his/her right mind would want it back.

Currently, guys are put on the clock almost automatically. There can be a lot of action both ways, and the ref just seems to randomly put a guy on the clock. Clearly, they're being told that they're not doing their job if they're not putting someone on the clock every minute or two.

I'd just go to a more basic system. If it's clear that one guy is being passive, warn him and award a point to his opponent, maybe after a first warning, similar to folkstyle. But the current system of putting people on the shot clock is out of control as it's being called, IMO. That may be more of a habit of international refs. I'm curious to see how active the American refs are about putting guys on the shot clock this weekend.
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I've officiated the international styles of all age groups up to senior level. Ball grab was the worst set of rules we've ever had. I agree with you there. When they inplemented these new rules it was meant to increase scoring. In a freestyle match it CANT be 0-0 going into the second period. Once it hits two minutes someone has to go on the clock. That is why they get their warnings out early. The shot clock works much better at the HS and below level. I swear at that level the majority of the time the guy that gets put on the clock scores.

They can award a point also but you rarely see it until the second period. They can call fleeing the hold at anytime and it's a caution and a point. That is more like the folkstyle scoring system. They called it quite a few times this weekend. I don't like when they use the shot clock in the 2nd period and would rather have it always be a fleeing the hold call.

The new rules arnt perfect but I think they are the best were going to get. It's pretty impossible to not make the officiating not subjective. Giving up a 1 point shot clock point isn't the end of the word when takedowns are worth 2.
 
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