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Olympic trial seeds

Rutherford's skillsets are much more suited for folk. He is an absolute beast on top and that is the reason be breaks matches open in college. He is a great hand fighter too but probably about the 5th best in this field.

Pico controlled him pretty well and he has had his hands full with the big boys.

Rutherford had a great season but Sorenson, Collica, Clagon and Sufleon are not Stieber, Metcalf, Green, Pico, Humpries ........

Wouldnt be surprised to see him go 0-2 in this field.
 
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I have been impressed with Retherford. It seems like he went from being a very good wrestler as a true fr to an absolute monster this past year. Goes up a weight and looks like he muscles every opponent.

It is hard for me to believe Pico handled him as easily as he did when they met in FS 1-2 yrs ago. I'd love to see a rematch. Think it would be very close. Retherford, young as he is, will be a force for years.

Here's still hoping Metcalf prevails at OTT's and does well representing USA.
 
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Once again Perry and Dake are at different weights. Perry dropped down for the open.

I believe Zain and Pico have wrestled 5-6 times the last two years. It's a constant eye gauging event for Zain and then Picos camp complains about it the whole match(I would too).

A best case scenario for Zain would be to win a match here.
 
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Richard Perry not Chris Perry is same weight class as Dake.
 
Omahahawk86 said:
I've officiated the international styles of all age groups up to senior level. Ball grab was the worst set of rules we've ever had. I agree with you there. When they inplemented these new rules it was meant to increase scoring. In a freestyle match it CANT be 0-0 going into the second period. Once it hits two minutes someone has to go on the clock. That is why they get their warnings out early. The shot clock works much better at the HS and below level. I swear at that level the majority of the time the guy that gets put on the clock scores.

They can award a point also but you rarely see it until the second period. They can call fleeing the hold at anytime and it's a caution and a point. That is more like the folkstyle scoring system. They called it quite a few times this weekend. I don't like when they use the shot clock in the 2nd period and would rather have it always be a fleeing the hold call.

The new rules arnt perfect but I think they are the best were going to get. It's pretty impossible to not make the officiating not subjective. Giving up a 1 point shot clock point isn't the end of the word when takedowns are worth 2.
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I'm not saying that all subjectivity needs to be removed from officiating; that's obviously impossible. I'm saying that passivity should be called when there's actual clear passivity from one wrestler relative to the other. This often isn't the case under the current system. Often, guys are put on the clock for wheat seems to be no apparent reason.

The fact that a match can't be 0-0 going into the second period is part of the problem, IMO. It's akin to the old folkstyle rule where someone had to be warned for stalling if the first period ended 0-0. The spirit of the rule seemed good, but often you'd have two guys going at it pretty good without a score, in which case it was basically a "ball grab" to determine who got the stalling warning.

Like most fans, I'm all for passivity warnings when they're warranted. What most fans oppose, IMO, is random passivity calls that don't seem to have much to do with what's happening on the mat. It's not a huge beef, but it's something that could easily be improved with a tweak of the rules, IMO.

Nobody is claiming that the current freestyle rules are horrible, by any stretch. Everyone seems to be very much in support of them. Just noting that his is an area that could use some tweaking.
 
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A bracket that features Green, Humphrey, Oliver , Kennedy, Steiber, and Pico, seems like a tougher road than the one at 57kg, just my opinion.
 
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pumpdog20 said:
A bracket that features Green, Humphrey, Oliver , Kennedy, Steiber, and Pico, seems like a tougher road than the one at 57kg, just my opinion.
Click to expand...

It's pretty loaded. Metcalf has never wrestled Kennedy to my knowledge. He looked damn tough at the open. That should be a good match. It's always a good thing when Metcalf gets matched up with Rusell or Hump b/c he usually smokes them.
 
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This is how they seeded it or what the pre-seeds are. Green really threw a wrench into the seedings because he hasn't wrestled any of these guys. It's kind of hard not to give him a high seed though. He's a returning World medalist and has a gigantic win of Chamizo from last year. Chamizo then went on to win the toughest weight in the world(Metcalfs weight). The only one that stood out was Hump being above Steiber since Steiber just teched him.

1. Brent Metcalf, Iowa City, Iowa (New York AC/Hawkeye WC)
2. James Green, Lincoln, Neb. (Titan Mercury WC)
3. Jordan Oliver, Tempe, Ariz. (Sunkist Kids)
4. Jimmy Kennedy, Ann Arbor, Mich. (New York AC/Cliff Keen WC)
5. Reece Humphrey, Columbus, Ohio (New York AC/Ohio RTC)
6. Logan Stieber, Columbus, Ohio (Titan Mercury WC/Ohio RTC)
7. Aaron Pico, Whittier, Calif. (Titan Mercury WC)
8. Kellen Russell, Ann Arbor, Mich. (New York AC/Cliff Keen WC)
 
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I'm a big fan of Jimmy, I enjoy watching him wrestle but he won't be able to get through Metcalf's head and hands. Not too concerned.
 
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Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan said:
Metcalf will likely win his weight. Brent will have an easier time than Ramos as Dennis and a few others are pretty solid wrestlers.
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Could not disagree with this more.

Metcalf's road looks like Russell, Kennedy and then either Stieber/Green/Oliver. No way is that an easier road than Ramos. I have a lot of confidence in both Metcalf and Ramos, Metcalf's road has a TON of landmines.
 
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goiahawkeyes said:
Could not disagree with this more.

Metcalf's road looks like Russell, Kennedy and then either Stieber/Green/Oliver. No way is that an easier road than Ramos. I have a lot of confidence in both Metcalf and Ramos, Metcalf's road has a TON of landmines.
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Seriously though. Has there ever been a big tournament that Metcalf has been in that wasn't ridiculously stacked?
 
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When is the last time Metcalf lost to an American? 2012 to Frayer? He dominates in the USA.

I think 65 kg is a lot deeper weight but I feel a lot more confident in Metcalf's ability to win it than I do of Ramos at 57 kg. I would favor Ramos over anyone in an individual matchup at 57 but he wrestles so many close matches that I don't feel as good about him winning 4 close matches in a row.
 
championhawk said:
Especially when his evidence is Tony being put on the clock when every wrestler is put on the clock. Most of the time you have no idea why they chose who they did. There is also strategy involved getting put on the clock first.
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Yep. A lot of matches decided by who's turn it was to be put on the clock.
 
Omahahawk86 said:
I've officiated the international styles of all age groups up to senior level. Ball grab was the worst set of rules we've ever had. I agree with you there. When they inplemented these new rules it was meant to increase scoring. In a freestyle match it CANT be 0-0 going into the second period. Once it hits two minutes someone has to go on the clock. That is why they get their warnings out early. The shot clock works much better at the HS and below level. I swear at that level the majority of the time the guy that gets put on the clock scores.

They can award a point also but you rarely see it until the second period. They can call fleeing the hold at anytime and it's a caution and a point. That is more like the folkstyle scoring system. They called it quite a few times this weekend. I don't like when they use the shot clock in the 2nd period and would rather have it always be a fleeing the hold call.

The new rules arnt perfect but I think they are the best were going to get. It's pretty impossible to not make the officiating not subjective. Giving up a 1 point shot clock point isn't the end of the word when takedowns are worth 2.
Click to expand...
The shot clock is for a lack of scoring, not a lack of action.
The way it was explained to me by refs that officiate on the senior level is that even if there is a lot of action/flurries but no scoring the guy determined to be doing less to try to score will be put on the clock. If both are relatively equal in trying or not trying to score they will just pick one to put on the clock and if there is no scoring later they will put the other guy on the clock.
Example: 2 matches with the same high amount of flurries/scrambles but 1 match results in 1-0 score while the other is 6-4 (guys got exposed in the action) after 1st period. In the 2nd period if there is still high rate of action but no scoring it is almost a guarantee that someone will be put on the clock in the 1-0 match and less likely in the 6-4 match.
All about putting points on the board. Any "action" created is just a by product but not the purpose is what I was told.
 
Omahahawk86 said:
I've officiated the international styles of all age groups up to senior level. Ball grab was the worst set of rules we've ever had. I agree with you there. When they inplemented these new rules it was meant to increase scoring. In a freestyle match it CANT be 0-0 going into the second period. Once it hits two minutes someone has to go on the clock. That is why they get their warnings out early. The shot clock works much better at the HS and below level. I swear at that level the majority of the time the guy that gets put on the clock scores.

They can award a point also but you rarely see it until the second period. They can call fleeing the hold at anytime and it's a caution and a point. That is more like the folkstyle scoring system. They called it quite a few times this weekend. I don't like when they use the shot clock in the 2nd period and would rather have it always be a fleeing the hold call.

The new rules arnt perfect but I think they are the best were going to get. It's pretty impossible to not make the officiating not subjective. Giving up a 1 point shot clock point isn't the end of the word when takedowns are worth 2.
Click to expand...

I was at the World's in Vegas last year and I thought the officiating was the best I've seen at any level in years. The passivity calls were consistent and frequent which kept the action moving. The current rules are light years ahead of what they were when we almost lost the sport in the Olympics.
 
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PapaBearSLIM said:
The shot clock is for a lack of scoring, not a lack of action.
The way it was explained to me by refs that officiate on the senior level is that even if there is a lot of action/flurries but no scoring the guy determined to be doing less to try to score will be put on the clock. If both are relatively equal in trying or not trying to score they will just pick one to put on the clock and if there is no scoring later they will put the other guy on the clock.
Example: 2 matches with the same high amount of flurries/scrambles but 1 match results in 1-0 score while the other is 6-4 (guys got exposed in the action) after 1st period. In the 2nd period if there is still high rate of action but no scoring it is almost a guarantee that someone will be put on the clock in the 1-0 match and less likely in the 6-4 match.
All about putting points on the board. Any "action" created is just a by product but not the purpose is what I was told.
Click to expand...
This highlights, to me, the problem with the current system. Mind you, I think it's a small problem compared to the totality of the current freestyle rules, which I think are great overall.

If passivity were called based on action rather than scoring, I think the problem would basically be solved. It's the random choosing of a guy to put on the clock, followed by later putting the other guy on the clock to make up for previously putting his opponent on the clock, that I don't like. As noted above, some matches are won and lost as a result. Yes, you should keep it out of the ref's hands, etc., but sometimes the shot clock really interferes and gives one guy an unfair advantage. You hate to see huge matches, at the OTT's, Worlds, or Olympics, determined by which guy got put on the shot clock.
 
PapaBearSLIM said:
The shot clock is for a lack of scoring, not a lack of action.
The way it was explained to me by refs that officiate on the senior level is that even if there is a lot of action/flurries but no scoring the guy determined to be doing less to try to score will be put on the clock. If both are relatively equal in trying or not trying to score they will just pick one to put on the clock and if there is no scoring later they will put the other guy on the clock.
Example: 2 matches with the same high amount of flurries/scrambles but 1 match results in 1-0 score while the other is 6-4 (guys got exposed in the action) after 1st period. In the 2nd period if there is still high rate of action but no scoring it is almost a guarantee that someone will be put on the clock in the 1-0 match and less likely in the 6-4 match.
All about putting points on the board. Any "action" created is just a by product but not the purpose is what I was told.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if your disagreeing with me or not but I stated above it was meant to increase scoring. They don't care how it's done they want points on the board.
PapaBearSLIM said:
The shot clock is for a lack of scoring, not a lack of action.
The way it was explained to me by refs that officiate on the senior level is that even if there is a lot of action/flurries but no scoring the guy determined to be doing less to try to score will be put on the clock. If both are relatively equal in trying or not trying to score they will just pick one to put on the clock and if there is no scoring later they will put the other guy on the clock.
Example: 2 matches with the same high amount of flurries/scrambles but 1 match results in 1-0 score while the other is 6-4 (guys got exposed in the action) after 1st period. In the 2nd period if there is still high rate of action but no scoring it is almost a guarantee that someone will be put on the clock in the 1-0 match and less likely in the 6-4 match.
All about putting points on the board. Any "action" created is just a by product but not the purpose is what I was told.
Click to expand...

I agree. I stated above its meant to increase scoring. I'm not sure if your disagreeing with me but I stated that above.

When "they just pick one" they should be able to explain themselves. I've sat in the judges chair and the official on the mat wants a warning on one color and I've put up the other paddle. Those old farts don't like that. They generally just agree with each other bc of the good ole boy system. When they do a rules meeting they explain it if there is no action then the guy holding the center of the mat is the aggressor.

A match shouldn't end 1-1 with each guy going on the clock and giving up a point and someone winning on criteria. I don't think the shot clock is the problem but criteria is the problem.
 
I think Retherford will have his day but if he finishes top 5, I will be surprised. Metcalf, green, stieber, oliver, pico, humpfrey, russell, Molinaro probably missing someone. Deep wt
 
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Zain can't even beat Pico and you think he is gonna get top 3! I think you are reading into his folk style results a little to much. He's not gonna be able to wear people down in the top position where he scores most of his points.
 
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I see Zain and Dennis in the same way! Both, stronger than most people think,both exceptionally well conditioned! I just don't see anyone at those two weights blowing through those two guys! I doubt either of those guys loses by more than 2-3 points! Kennedy is a real horse if he is on his game. I see him in top three! Pico is not top three in my book.
 
I don't like the passivity calls. It often goes against the guy who was aggressive in the first period. And if there's been no scoring outside that failed 30 second passivity call then the ref feels obligated to put that aggressive wrestler on the clock anyway in the second to make it "fair". Then he loses, if he can't score.
 
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Not taking anything away from Zain nor what he has accomplished so far or how he has done it. College, he is one of the best, but he is now wrestling the others who are also best of the best. Everyone of the guys is strong, every guy is well conditioned, every guy has accomplished a lot in their careers. Zain's track record against Pico isn't very good, and Pico has a bit to go in the senior level. I don't see Zain placing.
 
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While the passivity rule can be frustrating at times, I like it as it is. If it is subjective with respect to how active the wrestling is (as it is in folkstyle), it may never get called (as it doesn't in folkstyle). If it is based on lack of scoring, it is not subjective and has to be called and forces action. I realize that there is subjectivity as to who the passivity is called on, but at least it forces more action and scoring.
 
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