One of Joe's favorite lies... the 2A never allowed you to buy/own a cannon fact checked

[KFsdisciple]

Whenever there's a discussion on guns... Joe loves to tell his favorite joke about deer and bullet proof vests, and his favorite lie, that you couldn't then (at the time of the draft of the 2A) or now own a cannon.

You can infact own a cannon today if you choose. Not that there are a lot of cannon shops around, but that doesn't mean you CAN'T own one.

Lying Joe and his favorite tales debunked

 

[Finance85]

But... But... He taught constitutional law!!!!

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Meh I could have told you that you can buy a cannon. However his point still stands. The amendment says arms, not specifically firearms.

So why can't Jeff Bezos buy himself an A-10 with some hellfire missiles attached?

 

[sober_teacher]

In related news, SC struck down the ban on bump stocks initiated under Trump.

So yay, it’s legal again to modify weapons so they can fire hundreds of bullets per minute.

 

[thewop]

Meh I could have told you that you can buy a cannon. However his point still stands. The amendment says arms, not specifically firearms.

So why can't Jeff Bezos buy himself an A-10 with some hellfire missiles attached?

That raises an interesting question. Is there anything stopping him from building his own?

 

[KFsdisciple]

In related news, SC struck down the ban on bump stocks initiated under Trump.

So yay, it’s legal again to modify weapons so they can fire hundreds of bullets per minute.

Maybe we need a cannon that can fire like an automatic...

 

[KFsdisciple]

That raises an interesting question. Is there anything stopping him from building his own?

knowledge and desire... seem to be about it.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

That raises an interesting question. Is there anything stopping him from building his own?

He couldn't buy it from a manufacturer. At least not the weapons, the plane maybe.

In terms of building his own assuming he had the money to do that since the stuff you would need to even build it would be extremely costly on it's own. You have FAA regulations plus I'm guessing there are several things on it that are either illegal to purchase or involves classified technology that he wouldn't be able to get his hands on. I'm guessing you can't just look up the technology for a hellfire missle's guidance system.

I mean even if you take out the classified bit and say you wanted to build your own B17 with 500 pound bombs. I'm guaranteeing the FAA would not allow a civilian to operate an aircraft with bombs on board. Can't buy or build a nuclear weapon.

I would also venture to guess that while you might be able to buy old cannons you wouldn't be allowed to have your own Howitzer and ammunition or your own mobile missile launcher.

Also fragmentation grenades. Illegal, people have gone to prison for that.

Brentwood Man Sentenced to 31 Months for Purchasing Military Hand Grenades

www.justice.gov

There is clearly limitations on the 2nd amendment that everyone just accepts. So it confuses me why that logic doesn't extend to certain types of firearms. 2nd Amendment doesn't even say "firearms" it just says "arms"

 

[KFsdisciple]

He couldn't buy it from a manufacturer. At least not the weapons, the plane maybe.

In terms of building his own assuming he had the money to do that since the stuff you would need to even build it would be extremely costly on it's own. You have FAA regulations plus I'm guessing there are several things on it that are either illegal to purchase or involves classified technology that he wouldn't be able to get his hands on.

I mean even if you take out the classified bit and say you wanted to build your own B17 with 500 pound bombs. I'm guaranteeing the FAA would not allow a civilian to operate an aircraft with bombs on board. Can't buy or build a nuclear weapon.

I would also venture to guess that while you might be able to buy old cannons you wouldn't be allowed to have your own Howitzer and ammunition or your own mobile missile launcher.

Also fragmentation grenades. Illegal, people have gone to prison for that.

Brentwood Man Sentenced to 31 Months for Purchasing Military Hand Grenades

www.justice.gov

There is clearly limitations on the 2nd amendment that everyone just accepts. So it confuses me why that logic doesn't extend to certain types of firearms.

Yes there are limitations, but owning a cannon isn't one of them. The lie is the point though.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Yes there are limitations, but owning a cannon isn't one of them.

Ok factually true and if I where in the admin I would be handing the president a note that you can buy a cannon but maybe change his reference from cannon to something that you can't own at least without a license that I mentioned in my previous post such as fragmentation grenades. Trump's DOJ put a guy away for owning frag grenades.

That said the whole this just distracts from the point which is that the 2nd amendment is not this absolutist thing that if an weapon exists and I have the money I can therefore purchase it.

 

[jonesy5960]

That raises an interesting question. Is there anything stopping him from building his own?

And selling it on Amazon under essential basics.

 

[KFsdisciple]

Ok factually true and if I where in the admin I would be handing the president a note that you can buy a cannon but maybe change his reference from cannon to something that you can't own that I mentioned in my previous post but talking about this distracts from the point.

The problem is, he's trying to use a period specific weapon to prove a point that even at the time when the bill of rights were being written, there were limits on weapons, and at that time, there actually weren't any. No one thought a cannon was less ownable than a musket.

 

[Aardvark86]

Whenever there's a discussion on guns... Joe loves to tell his favorite joke about deer and bullet proof vests, and his favorite lie, that you couldn't then (at the time of the draft of the 2A) or now own a cannon.

You can infact own a cannon today if you choose. Not that there are a lot of cannon shops around, but that doesn't mean you CAN'T own one.

Lying Joe and his favorite tales debunked

Ah, cannons. Fun story. We were invited to a friend's family place on the coast near Damiriscotta, ME many years ago. (I actually stayed in a cottage where The Double Helix was written.) Friend's grandfather was world famous physicist, Dr. John Wheeler (coined phrase 'black hole'), who at that time was incredibly hard of hearing and therefore liked anything loud. During Friday happy hour, he just dropped a string of firecrackers at his feet and sort of smiled. Late Saturday afternoon, he says, "boys, what do you say we get out the cannon?" I'm like, "WHA?" Sure enough, they had a garage with a cannon, circa 1910 model. We wheeled it out into the front yard and pointed it out into the bay. We pretty much stuck to powder, but Dr. Wheeler at one point deduced that the bore of the cannon was the same as a Hills Bros. coffee can, and used to shoot cans full of nails out into the bay when the lobster boats werent out there.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

The problem is, he's trying to use a period specific weapon to prove a point that even at the time when the bill of rights were being written, there were limits on weapons, and at that time, there actually weren't any. No one thought a cannon was less ownable than a musket.

Ok but at some point possibly starting with the 1934 national firearms act but there is a good chance that legislation came through sooner we decided that the 2nd amendment did not apply to everything.

1934 national firearms act wasn't even all that controversial considering the house passed it with a voice vote.

 

[KFsdisciple]

Ah, cannons. Fun story. We were invited to a friend's family place on the coast near Damiriscotta, ME many years ago. (I actually stayed in a cottage where The Double Helix was written.) Friend's grandfather was world famous physicist, Dr. John Wheeler (coined phrase 'black hole'), who at that time was incredibly hard of hearing and therefore liked anything loud. During Friday happy hour, he just dropped a string of firecrackers at his feet and sort of smiled. Late Saturday afternoon, he says, "boys, what do you say we get out the cannon?" I'm like, "WHA?" Sure enough, they had a garage with a cannon, circa 1910 model. We wheeled it out into the front yard and pointed it out into the bay. We pretty much stuck to powder, but Dr. Wheeler at one point deduced that the bore of the cannon was the same as a Hills Bros. coffee can, and used to shoot cans full of nails out into the bay when the lobster boats werent out there.

CSB

Just don't tell Joey this story because we would hate for anything bad to happen to the good DR or his family.

 

[KFsdisciple]

Ok but at some point possibly starting with the 1934 national firearms act but there is a good chance that legislation came through sooner we decided that the 2nd amendment did not apply to everything.

1934 national firearms act wasn't even all that controversial considering the house passed it with a voice vote.

I don't disagree that there should be limits on weapons the average civilian should be able to own. There's plenty of examples the president could use to make the point he's trying to make. He uses the cannon story A LOT... and I know someone has to have corrected him at least once that hey Mr. President, you actually could own a cannon in fact it's actually not illegal to own one today.

 

[NDallasRuss]

I'm guaranteeing the FAA would not allow a civilian to operate an aircraft with bombs on board. Can't buy or build a nuclear weapon.

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!!!

The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a heavily armed plane!

FREEDOM!!!

 

[NDallasRuss]

Ah, cannons. Fun story. We were invited to a friend's family place on the coast near Damiriscotta, ME many years ago. (I actually stayed in a cottage where The Double Helix was written.) Friend's grandfather was world famous physicist, Dr. John Wheeler (coined phrase 'black hole'), who at that time was incredibly hard of hearing and therefore liked anything loud. During Friday happy hour, he just dropped a string of firecrackers at his feet and sort of smiled. Late Saturday afternoon, he says, "boys, what do you say we get out the cannon?" I'm like, "WHA?" Sure enough, they had a garage with a cannon, circa 1910 model. We wheeled it out into the front yard and pointed it out into the bay. We pretty much stuck to powder, but Dr. Wheeler at one point deduced that the bore of the cannon was the same as a Hills Bros. coffee can, and used to shoot cans full of nails out into the bay when the lobster boats werent out there.

While not a cannon, my first July 4 in Northern Virginia the family and I were invited to a co-worker's parents' house for a cookout. Rather than fireworks, his dad broke out a can of gunpowder and a spool of fuse and we spent the afternoon finding things to blow up in the street. That was a good time!

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

I don't disagree that there should be limits on weapons the average civilian should be able to own. There's plenty of examples the president could use to make the point he's trying to make. He uses the cannon story A LOT... and I know someone has to have corrected him at least once that hey Mr. President, you actually could own a cannon in fact it's actually not illegal to own one today.

He's old and he's got it stuck in his head.

Sad but true.

On the other hand at least he's trying to make a point and not rambling on about some tangent about choosing between being electrocuted by a boat battery or being eaten by a shark.

 

[Aardvark86]

While not a cannon, my first July 4 in Northern Virginia the family and I were invited to a co-worker's parents' house for a cookout. Rather than fireworks, his dad broke out a can of gunpowder and a spool of fuse and we spent the afternoon finding things to blow up in the street. That was a good time!

that blowed up real good'!

 

[KFsdisciple]

He's old and he's got it stuck in his head.

Sad but true.

On the other hand at least he's trying to make a point and not rambling on about some tangent about choosing between being electrocuted by a boat battery or being eaten by a shark.

Do we have to BUT Trump everything?

Trump tells stupid lies... he gets fact checked and he doesn't tell the same lies over and over. Joe grows his lies even after we know someone has had to tell him by now you could own a cannon. Now he's saying he taught constitutional law as a professor so he's an expert on cannon law (no pun intended)

 

[sober_teacher]

Do we have to BUT Trump everything?

I could make the same comment about every non-Biden topic that brings up POTUS.

Aggravating, isn’t it?

 

[KFsdisciple]

I could make the same comment about every non-Biden topic that brings up POTUS.

Aggravating, isn’t it?

The But Trump thing has been going on for years on here. These two are only joined in title but not at the hip. Joe refuses to even say his name but we can't get through one thread about rye bread without a But Trump post somewhere.

 

[sober_teacher]

The But Trump thing has been going on for years on here. These two are only joined in title but not at the hip. Joe refuses to even say his name but we can't get through one thread about rye bread without a But Trump post somewhere.

Before it was Biden, it was Hillary. You know this.

 

[Finance85]

Ok but at some point possibly starting with the 1934 national firearms act but there is a good chance that legislation came through sooner we decided that the 2nd amendment did not apply to everything.

1934 national firearms act wasn't even all that controversial considering the house passed it with a voice vote.

Unconstitutional laws are passed all the time.

 

[Aardvark86]

Do we have to BUT Trump everything?

Trump tells stupid lies... he gets fact checked and he doesn't tell the same lies over and over. Joe grows his lies even after we know someone has had to tell him by now you could own a cannon. Now he's saying he taught constitutional law as a professor so he's an expert on cannon law (no pun intended)

i sometimes wonder whether we could collapse everything into just a few threads here, to wit: (i) sorry if pepsi; (ii) but trump; (iii) biden acts feebly; (iv) i hate my governor; (v) kaitlyn clark is god's gift to humanity

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Unconstitutional laws are passed all the time.

Are you implying that the 1934 National Firearms Act is unconstitutional?

 

[mnole03]

You could own uranium at the framing and you could own a cannon, so surely you can own a cannon that shoots uranium into uranium.

 

[KFsdisciple]

i sometimes wonder whether we could collapse everything into just a few threads here, to wit: (i) sorry if pepsi; (ii) but trump; (iii) biden acts feebly; (iv) i hate my governor; (v) kaitlyn clark is god's gift to humanity

Seems like that covers 95%... add in the this is tougher than Putin Thought and Chis' Twitter links and you've got the board covered.

 

[KFsdisciple]

You could own uranium at the framing and you could own a cannon, so surely you can own a cannon that shoots uranium into uranium.

all the way to Uranus!

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

Seems like that covers 95%... add in the this is tougher than Putin Thought and Chis' Twitter links and you've got the board covered.

Boobs.

 

[sober_teacher]

i sometimes wonder whether we could collapse everything into just a few threads here, to wit: (i) sorry if pepsi; (ii) but trump; (iii) biden acts feebly; (iv) i hate my governor; (v) kaitlyn clark is god's gift to humanity

If we’re going to do this, could we assign someone as the spelling police? It’s CAITLIN Clark, not with a K, nor a y.

Ok, rant over 😁

 

[Finance85]

Are you implying that the 1934 National Firearms Act is unconstitutional?

Yes

 

[sober_teacher]

Yes

Are there any aspects of firearms that could be regulated

 

[KFsdisciple]

Are there any aspects of firearms that could be regulated

no, just the militia but it gets to be "well regulated"

 

[Aardvark86]

Boobs.

good catch.

If we’re going to do this, could we assign someone as the spelling police? It’s CAITLIN Clark, not with a K, nor a y.

Ok, rant over 😁

mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

 

[KFsdisciple]

@sober_teacher I was kidding about the regulation. As I've said, I do think there should be regulations on firearms.

The AR-15 is much maligned but the gun itself isn't any more dangerous than 9mm handgun. It doesn't become a WMD until you do after-market modifications. It's a very little bit like the Honda Civic. They're fine cars which pose very little danger... but when people do the turbo-upgrades and nitrous oxide gas trying to be Paul Walker on the Fast and Furious then they become a danger to themselves and others.

 

[sober_teacher]

@sober_teacher I was kidding about the regulation. As I've said, I do think there should be regulations on firearms.

The AR-15 is much maligned but the gun itself isn't any more dangerous than 9mm handgun. It doesn't become a WMD until you do after-market modifications. It's a very little bit like the Honda Civic. They're fine cars which pose very little danger... but when people do the turbo-upgrades and nitrous oxide gas trying to be Paul Walker on the Fast and Furious then they become a danger to themselves and others.

If nothing else, it just now seems impossibly hard to even get regulations regarding methods of modifying guns thru that would stand up to judicial scrutiny. This got struck down because the guns themselves didn’t meet the definition of machine guns, ignoring that using bump stocks effectively turned them into machine guns - if I have that very basic summation of the SC reasoning correct.

The average gun is deadly enough, thanks very much.

 

[KFsdisciple]

If nothing else, it just now seems impossibly hard to even get regulations regarding methods of modifying guns thru that would stand up to judicial scrutiny. This got struck down because the guns themselves didn’t meet the definition of machine guns, ignoring that using bump stocks effectively turned them into machine guns - if I have that very basic summation of the SC reasoning correct.

The average gun is deadly enough, thanks very much.

This goes back to my civic analogy. We can't ban the honda civic because people sup them up into street racing machines.

 

[sober_teacher]

This goes back to my civic analogy. We can't ban the honda civic because people sup them up into street racing machines.

I’ve seen you make this argument before and it’s still a bad analogy to me. At most you’re talking about making a car that can already drive fast go faster. They’re designed to go from a to b; and there are some car mods that are illegal I believe.

But guns have one purpose only - kill things, and the basic designs we already have are plenty good at that. And yet we need mods that allow them to have large magazines, fire more bullets per minute, extend the range, etc.

Is it really that much to say there needs to be limits to that?