Opinion The Saudi snub of Biden is a disaster. Democrats must respond.

kc78

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Nov 25, 2002
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So...nationalize US oil interests? How else do you compel private companies to drill when they have decided it's not in their best interests? They have leases in hand right now on something like 25 million acres of land and they're already producing more petroleum, crude oil, and natural gas than anyone else in the world.
You don't think companies want to drill? The issue is that the leases they have are on areas more difficult to drill and so they're waiting for friendlier US policies to allow for it. You decide that you're not going to be antagonistic from a Federal perspective to oil production. You incentivize through tax breaks and subsidies. But you write those tax subsidies and incentives in a way that gives you input into whether they're allowed to cut production or not as it's "your" oil. There are ways to make it happen, you just have to be creative.

I do also wish there was a way to create a nationalized oil production but I don't see any way you can do that without angering too many powerful people.
 
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kc78

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To placate his base Biden chose to cut Saudi Arabia off and publicly out them as international pariahs,... What did he get out of this?, absolutely nothing.,.. And more to the point his actions pushed MBS into becoming a personal enemy, of Biden for sure, but perhaps the US in general,.. Biden would have been better off to threaten the stick, but not employ it,.. Had he done this MBS might be more inclined to be working with Biden now.
I don't think that was meant to placate his base. Saudi Arabia are pariahs. We need to not have association with that regime. It's why we need domestic oil supply and to create a western block of oil producing nations.
 

FAUlty Gator

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I find it interesting that Dems hold Climate Change as the number one issue we face...until it comes to election time. Then it's DRILL BABY DRILL!
 
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Rifler

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Jan 26, 2011
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I don't think that was meant to placate his base. Saudi Arabia are pariahs. We need to not have association with that regime. It's why we need domestic oil supply and to create a western block of oil producing nations.

The Saudis are what they are, but they are key players in the Middle East and they have lots of oil,.. We need them to be working with us, not against us,.. 50-60 years from now, when oil is no longer a large poker chip, we can afford to tell them how we really feel,... Today is not that day.
 

kc78

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I find it interesting that Dems hold Climate Change as the number one issue we face...until it comes to election time. Then it's DRILL BABY DRILL!
For what it's worth, the Dems haven't reverted to Drill baby Drill. I think they should, but I haven't seen anyone in charge make that claim. I hope that the issue with Russia and OPEC who is tightly aligned with Russia will open their eyes to the need to do so. You can still be concerned with the climate while also addressing current needs of today.
 

kc78

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The Saudis are what they are, but they are key players in the Middle East and they have lots of oil,.. We need them to be working with us, not against us,.. 50-60 years from now, when oil is no longer a large poker chip, we can afford to tell them how we really feel,... Today is not that day.
America either has morals and values that it aligns with or it does not. I prefer for America to attempt to be a country pushing forward towards a better tomorrow, not placating those who do evil because we want their oil. And Saudi Arabia as it currently stands, is evil. You don't get to chop a journalist up and stuff him in a suitcase and not be in the evil camp.
 

Fijimn

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May 7, 2008
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America either has morals and values that it aligns with or it does not. I prefer for America to attempt to be a country pushing forward towards a better tomorrow, not placating those who do evil because we want their oil. And Saudi Arabia as it currently stands, is evil. You don't get to chop a journalist up and stuff him in a suitcase and not be in the evil camp.
You should see the high-level connection to 9/11. That's why I wish one administration would force a settlement of the 9/11 claims.
 
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Finance85

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Oct 22, 2003
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If the US responds, the response needs to be a good response. Too many times the US thinks it can bully other countries without any repercussions. We end up shooting ourselves in the foot. Our politicians take the attitude that the American people can sacrifice for some supposedly noble goal. Over the past 75 years or so, that hasn't worked out so well. We've had Vietnam and the Iran oil embargo to name a couple that stand out.

There's little doubt that OPEC+ took this action for political reasons. There is literally nothing they can do that will hurt themselves. It's doubtful they care about the US defending them, because there are now other countries that will step up and be their military allies.

IMO, we need to relearn how to work with other countries instead of simply bullying them all the time. We also need to relearn diplomacy instead of vilifying other countries in the media.

Are the Saudis horrible? By our standards the answer is definitely yes. The people in that region have had a way of life for thousands of years. They like their system. It's hypocritical to condemn them while depending on their oil.
 

Rifler

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Jan 26, 2011
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For what it's worth, the Dems haven't reverted to Drill baby Drill. I think they should, but I haven't seen anyone in charge make that claim.

Actually the Dem chant has been more like DRILL BABY DRILL (in saudi arabia), DRILL BABY DRILL (in venezuela), or DRILL BABY DRILL (anywhere but here)....
 

abby97

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Sep 16, 2010
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America either has morals and values that it aligns with or it does not. I prefer for America to attempt to be a country pushing forward towards a better tomorrow, not placating those who do evil because we want their oil. And Saudi Arabia as it currently stands, is evil. You don't get to chop a journalist up and stuff him in a suitcase and not be in the evil camp.
But you have no issue with Biden cozying up to Iran? Iran is much worse than the Saudis. Regardless of what agreement Iran signs, they won't honor it. They simply play the game as long as necessary then say "Die America". The Abraham Accord was the best hope for a decent middle east agreement and Biden dumped it just because Trump sponsored it. Biden and the leftists put politics over American interests.
 

seminole97

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Jun 14, 2005
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America either has morals and values that it aligns with or it does not. I prefer for America to attempt to be a country pushing forward towards a better tomorrow, not placating those who do evil because we want their oil. And Saudi Arabia as it currently stands, is evil. You don't get to chop a journalist up and stuff him in a suitcase and not be in the evil camp.
They definitely should’ve used a drone.
Then nobody would’ve batted an eye.
 

Finance85

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Oct 22, 2003
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America either has morals and values that it aligns with or it does not. I prefer for America to attempt to be a country pushing forward towards a better tomorrow, not placating those who do evil because we want their oil. And Saudi Arabia as it currently stands, is evil. You don't get to chop a journalist up and stuff him in a suitcase and not be in the evil camp.
So deal with it quietly and firmly through channels. Is it helpful for Biden to publicly say he wants to make Saudi Arabia a pariah? Is it smart to do that when you simultaneously set out to cripple US oil production?
 
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Actually the Dem chant has been more like DRILL BABY DRILL (in saudi arabia), DRILL BABY DRILL (in venezuela), or DRILL BABY DRILL (anywhere but here)....
Fact. On top of that our oil is cleaner (less sulphur) … requires far less transportation … does not enrich these regimes … and creates millions of jobs here and associated tax revenues and royalties. It’s really a no brainer.
 

kc78

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So deal with it quietly and firmly through channels. Is it helpful for Biden to publicly say he wants to make Saudi Arabia a pariah? Is it smart to do that when you simultaneously set out to cripple US oil production?
How has he crippled oil production?

But I do agree, we need to increase US oil production.
 

Finance85

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Oct 22, 2003
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How has he crippled oil production?

But I do agree, we need to increase US oil production.
KC, the list of how he has crippled the US oil production is long, and started day one. The people who say the Keystone decision is meaningless aren't looking at the big picture. By big picture, I'm not talking about when oil would be moved; I'm talking about investment risk.

https://www.americanenergyalliance....crats-have-made-it-harder-to-produce-oil-gas/

The video linked below explains a lot. If you want verification on the effect of policies on investment, skip to the 6:30 mark and pick up the discussion on refineries following thereafter. Tom Paris would benefit from this tremendously.

 

tarheelbybirth

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Apr 17, 2003
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KC, the list of how he has crippled the US oil production is long, and started day one. The people who say the Keystone decision is meaningless aren't looking at the big picture. By big picture, I'm not talking about when oil would be moved; I'm talking about investment risk.

https://www.americanenergyalliance....crats-have-made-it-harder-to-produce-oil-gas/

The video linked below explains a lot. If you want verification on the effect of policies on investment, skip to the 6:30 mark and pick up the discussion on refineries following thereafter. Tom Paris would benefit from this tremendously.

Interesting. Your CEO source says "The incentives today are to pump as much as you can".

Alex: "Where is the biggest bottleneck [to increasing production]? Is it sand? Is it labor? Is it wages? Is it transportation? Like, where's the problem?"

CEO: "It's all of the above"

What is the CEO of Chevron missing that you're getting?

At the 6:30 mark the discussion is about phasing out fossil fuels which is an absolute necessity. The world has no choice. Are you suggesting that goal should be abolished? That there will likely never be another refinery built in the US is due to a pretty simple metric...NO ONE wants one in their backyard and it's not something that can be built in the middle of nowhere. Furthermore, he says refineries are closing around the world. How is US policy forcing China to close refineries?

Once again, what is the CEO of Chevron missing that you're getting?

If they started the process today to put a refinery near your home, you and your neighbors would be up in f'n arms to stop it. Don't say otherwise.
 

Finance85

HR Legend
Oct 22, 2003
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Interesting. Your CEO source says "The incentives today are to pump as much as you can".

Alex: "Where is the biggest bottleneck [to increasing production]? Is it sand? Is it labor? Is it wages? Is it transportation? Like, where's the problem?"

CEO: "It's all of the above"

What is the CEO of Chevron missing that you're getting?

At the 6:30 mark the discussion is about phasing out fossil fuels which is an absolute necessity. The world has no choice. Are you suggesting that goal should be abolished? That there will likely never be another refinery built in the US is due to a pretty simple metric...NO ONE wants one in their backyard and it's not something that can be built in the middle of nowhere. Furthermore, he says refineries are closing around the world. How is US policy forcing China to close refineries?

Once again, what is the CEO of Chevron missing that you're getting?

If they started the process today to put a refinery near your home, you and your neighbors would be up in f'n arms to stop it. Don't say otherwise.
Did you get to the 7:00 minute mark where he discusses refineries, and future investment? If not, go back and look. If so, why are you being obtuse?
 

Tom Paris

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Gas was $1.85 3 years ago
It was $1.19 when Clinton was POTUS and then Bush happened. Did you blame W for gas prices skyrocketing the first time or are you just being a hypocrite again?

I also am laughing at the tough talking Republicans who turn to snowflakes anytime Biden speaks against bad actors in the world but would LOVE it if and when their cult leader did the same.
 

binsfeldcyhawk2

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The Saudis are what they are, but they are key players in the Middle East and they have lots of oil,.. We need them to be working with us, not against us,.. 50-60 years from now, when oil is no longer a large poker chip, we can afford to tell them how we really feel,... Today is not that day.
Unfortunately true.
 

pepsicock

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May 11, 2006
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It was $1.19 when Clinton was POTUS and then Bush happened. Did you blame W for gas prices skyrocketing the first time or are you just being a hypocrite again?

I also am laughing at the tough talking Republicans who turn to snowflakes anytime Biden speaks against bad actors in the world but would LOVE it if and when their cult leader did the same.
I didn't vote or liked Bush, so you failed. At least Clinton did realize that the far left was the wrong way to go.
 

tarheelbybirth

HR King
Apr 17, 2003
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Did you get to the 7:00 minute mark where he discusses refineries, and future investment? If not, go back and look. If so, why are you being obtuse?
Did I not address refineries? Are you ignoring what I posted? Can you not address any of it? Are you, right now, lobbying your neighbors to go to Chevron and beg for a refinery in your back yard?
 

Menace Sockeyes

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Sep 2, 2010
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I love these threads where MAGAts who barely graduated high school, and can’t find their own ass with two hands, pretend to be both foreign policy and global energy production experts.
 
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SiouxCityHawkFan

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I love these threads where MAGAts who barely graduated high school, and can’t find their own ass with two hands, pretend to be both foreign policy and global energy production experts.
I love it when people with college educations associate having a degree with intelligence. If all these college graduates are so smart you would think they could figure out how to pay off their own college loans they agreed to.
 

Menace Sockeyes

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I love it when people with college educations associate having a degree with intelligence. If all these college graduates are so smart you would think they could figure out how to pay off their own college loans they agreed to.
Those of us who had scholarships, grants, and any debt paid off years ago are then free to roast the dumb MAGAt asses here that are neither intelligent nor capable of a thought that isn’t spoonfed to them by right wing grifters.
 

ZachJump

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We are currently exporting oil from the United States - why not reinstate the prohibition on oil exports and keep it all for ourselves?

Some of us want to keep on fracking until we’ve polluted our aquifers so big oil can sell our resources to foreign countries for massive profits.


It in the last few years has been a wash on imports/exports. I am not going to pretend to understand why we export a large amount and import the same large amount....though the article does somewhat explain it.

We also import very little from Saudi already. Like it has been for decades, we primarily import from Canada and Mexico.

 

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