Pemsl vs. Kriener

[hawkeye_fan321]

I haven't seen Kriener play but the two players seem very similar.
Pems has looked a lot quicker and more explosive coming back from injury, and I think that his lack of offers is because of his early commitment and injury a couple seasons ago(or was it last season?) as he was still hearing from schools up until signing day.

Stat Lines
Pemsl: 20.9 points per game, 64.4 field goal %, 60.3 free throw percentage on 58 attempts, 82 rebounds (25 offensive and 57 defensive), 15 assists to 17 turnovers, and 12 blocks.

Kriener: 20.7 points per game, 69.8 field goal %, 63% free throw % on 54 attempts, 95 rebounds (35 offensive and 60 defensive, 17 assists to 17 turnovers, and 17 blocks.

The stats are similar the same with the advantage to Kriener, but Wahlert has played the tougher schedule thus far.

Schedules thus far
Spirit Lake:

Sioux Central, Sioux Rapids W 78-22
Cedar Rapids, Kennedy L 50-59
@Cherokee, Washington W 80-46
Western Christian, Hull L 48-78
@Estherville Lincoln Central W 76-39
@Emmetsburg W 78-39
Bishop Garrigan, Algona W 86-41
@Woodbury Central W 71-53
Spencer W 72-37

Wahlert
@North Scott, Eldridge W 50-47
@Assumption, Davenport W 73-62
@Dowling Catholic, West Des Moines W 48-44
@Dubuque, Hempstead W 59-45
@Prairie, Cedar Rapids L 56-57
Waterloo, West W 66-50
@Central DeWitt W 77-28
Cedar Falls L 63-73

We won't know who's better unless they play against each other, which won't happen unless it's at state. Is Spirit Lake good enough to get there?

 

[WORTHYWISH]

Turnovers are a little concerning...

 

[Herkuleez]

They both need to get in the gym and add muscle to their frames...at least one of them will be expected to contribute to some degree next year. Going from their current level of competition to the B1G is going to be quite a shock for them.

 

[luvmyhawks]

Turnovers are a little concerning...

Agree. However, scoring and rebounds are quite nice. Both are close to averaging double doubles.

 

[DanL53]

If I recall, all four of our 2016 commits are known as solid passers.

 

[revkev73]

Kriener looks to be able to clog the lane...he can do that now...but bulking up would help...work on the freethrows...Woodie made great progress...should be fun to see...

 

[Ronman]

Turnovers are a little concerning...

I suspect the TO's are due to them being so heavily involved with the offense. That won't be the case, at least immediately, at Iowa.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

If Dale Jones is healthy next year, I just don't see one of these two cracking a line up with Cook, Jones, Uhl, Baer, and Wagner ahead of them.

 

[The Sleeping Dog]

Dying to see Kreiner live. Have friends up there who are really divided on him. Some say he's going to be a very good player and others say he's a deep bencher like Greg Helmers.

 

[EastIowaHawk]

They are two entirely different players. Kriener is taller and could be a true center. His team whalloped a depleted Sioux City North Saturday night by 32 points. Pemsl is one of those guys who looks slow warming up, but is pretty quick under the basket. They play Iowa City West at home Tuesday night and West has the luxury of putting a couple of talented players on him, so I think they can hold him down. Pemsl is pretty muscular and half the photos of him on the net are from his freshman or sophomore year. Both Kriener and Pemsl are working hard to muscle up. I think Fran uses them in very different ways and under different circumstances. Pemsl is probably more Big Ten- ready, but I see both as role players next year near the end of the playing rotation- but you never know.

 

[goodbyebobby]

Dying to see Kreiner live. Have friends up there who are really divided on him. Some say he's going to be a very good player and others say he's a deep bencher like Greg Helmers.

Did your friends specifically use Helmers' name?

 

[StormHawk42]

Never seen either except for highlight videos. Is Pemsl like a poor man's Niang? They have the same body type it seems.

 

[tedboy78]

I suspect the TO's are due to them being so heavily involved with the offense. That won't be the case, at least immediately, at Iowa.

This. And the fact that they are probably collapsing 2 and 3 guys on them from time to time. Two a game is okay by me.

 

[The Sleeping Dog]

Yep, that was the comparison.

 

[icu81222]

Never seen either except for highlight videos. Is Pemsl like a poor man's Niang? They have the same body type it seems.

Pretty sure Pemsl doesn't have moobs.

 

[hawkfan1963]

They both need to get in the gym and add muscle to their frames...at least one of them will be expected to contribute to some degree next year. Going from their current level of competition to the B1G is going to be quite a shock for them.

Will Fran let them bulk up and add muscle?

 

[ZumaHawk]

I've said this in another thread earlier. I saw Kreiner play Western Christian as a Junior. He did everything right except make the shot. Good footwork, played hard, hustled and just plain and simply missed his shots. Felt bad for him really. Fran was at that game as well. I know that kids can progress quite a bit when they become Seniors. Just from this one game is hard to judge, so I am hoping he becomes a great Hawkeye. It is hard to see this game and think it's going to happen though. I'm a glass half full person..........so this could have been his absolute worst game in his career so trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[revkev73]

Sometimes a guy just isn't a scorer, by talent, and or heart...it is tough when this is the case when you are the "go to" guy on any team, even on a high school team with little talent around you and opponents you tower over. Guys like Kreiner can really blossom when they are put on a team with scoring stars, even as he has hustle, competence, good mobility, good defense to contribute. It is a team game... If Fran continues to get some length and speed on the roster, Kreiner might excel and in time become a scorer in his own right. Lots of years to develop...

Woodie fits this m.o. a bit, although he remains an enigma in some ways.

 

[91hawki]

not holding my breath on Dale Jones. 2 Knee surguries in 3-4 years

 

[Herkuleez]

Will Fran let them bulk up and add muscle?

LOL...probably not, that's why they need to start now before they get on campus.

 

[Mattski]

Pemsl is a below the rim player currently. Good moves and quickness under the rim but explosive is not the word I'd use to describe him by any means. Quite the opposite. If he were 6'9-6'10 I'd say whatever, he'll still do effective work in the paint, but at 6'5-6'6" ish not sure where his game translates at B10 level?

 

[buttermypancakes]

Pemsl is a below the rim player currently. Good moves and quickness under the rim but explosive is not the word I'd use to describe him by any means. Quite the opposite. If he were 6'9-6'10 I'd say whatever, he'll still do effective work in the paint, but at 6'5-6'6" ish not sure where his game translates at B10 level?

While we're exaggerating let's just say he's a smidge over 6 foot.

 

[Mattski]

While we're exaggerating let's just say he's a smidge over 6 foot.

What part is exaggeration? Honest question coming from someone who's seen him play quite a bit this yr.

 

[hawkeye_fan321]

Pemsl is a below the rim player currently. Good moves and quickness under the rim but explosive is not the word I'd use to describe him by any means. Quite the opposite. If he were 6'9-6'10 I'd say whatever, he'll still do effective work in the paint, but at 6'5-6'6" ish not sure where his game translates at B10 level?

He's listed at 6'8, and he has looked a lot more explosive than he was before.

Here's a second opinion.

 

[2432Hawk]

Will Fran let them bulk up and add muscle?

Probably not... add strength but Fran likes nimble and quick over bulky.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

If Dale Jones is healthy next year, I just don't see one of these two cracking a line up with Cook, Jones, Uhl, Baer, and Wagner ahead of them.

Yep, my thoughts exactly.

 

[mstp1992]

Dying to see Kreiner live. Have friends up there who are really divided on him. Some say he's going to be a very good player and others say he's a deep bencher like Greg Helmers.

Kreiner played so well on the AAU circuit this past summer against similar competition it's hard to discount him.

 

[EastIowaHawk]

The key thing to remember when talking about these players and throwing their stats around is the schedule each player's team competes against. They are both in 3A in Iowa, which has 64 schools, the second largest school enrollment class. Pemsl's team (Dub. Wahlert) plays the #1 toughest schedule of all teams in that class, according to authority BC Moore who ranks teams by wins against schedule strength. Kriener's (Spirit Lake) plays the 56th toughest schedule, according to stats released today by BC Moore. Maybe Spirit Lake will beat Wahlert if they play each other, and they well could, but they (for the most part) play a different level of competition during the high school season. Spirit Lake will have a lot more wins at the end of the season than Wahlert. Just talking stats. To be fair, as mentioned above, Ryan Kriener has played very well in AAU competition, which is quite another animal. They are very different players in their styles. Ryan is taller, possibly more agile, and tends to go over his opponent. Pemsl creates space and is a battler on the offensive and defensive boards. I like both these kids and hope they blossom under Fran. As everyone knows, playing in college is a heckuva lot different than high school.

 

[hawkeye_fan321]

Completely agree East Iowa Hawk as Wahlert has played the toughest schedule two years in a row now (this year and last). Wahlert also beat the 4A state champs North Scott. Is Spirit Lake good enough to make state?

 

[The Sleeping Dog]

Wasn't there a rumor going 'round that Pemsyl had grown a couple inches to more like 6'9"? Probably more like 6'4" right, using the Bruner metrics.

 

[hawkjazz]

Kreiner led his AAU team to the Elite 28 AAU Championship with 18 PPG and 15 RPG.

also Collison played for IA Falls and that is a small school. you have to remember none of these incoming FR are going to be needed to lead this team in scoring.

 

[hawkjazz]

Wasn't there a rumor going 'round that Pemsyl had grown a couple inches to more like 6'9"? Probably more like 6'4" right, using the Bruner metrics.

Pemsyl is now 6'8 and there were a lot of posters on here saying he needed to grow to 6'10 even to be a effective PF.

 

[seer_hawk]

Kreiner led his AAU team to the Elite 28 AAU Championship with 18 PPG and 15 RPG.

also Collison played for IA Falls and that is a small school. you have to remember none of these incoming FR are going to be needed to lead this team in scoring.

I wouldn't be against a freshman leading the team in scoring. Next year will be more like Fran's first couple of seasons, where we had to rely more on underclassmen. We'll need to bring them along faster than the last couple of crops of newcomers.

 

[revkev73]

Another stat is...when a player like Kreiner plays the schedule set before his team, weaker...one of the biggest hurdles is avoiding being bored to death with 2-3 shorter guys clawing at you all game long...

Let's see them play at Iowa...that will be best litmus test...

 

[hawkjazz]

I wouldn't be against a freshman leading the team in scoring. Next year will be more like Fran's first couple of seasons, where we had to rely more on underclassmen. We'll need to bring them along faster than the last couple of crops of newcomers.

Another stat is...when a player like Kreiner plays the schedule set before his team, weaker...one of the biggest hurdles is avoiding being bored to death with 2-3 shorter guys clawing at you all game long...

Let's see them play at Iowa...that will be best litmus test...

this is said every time a new class comes in. {let's see them play in the BT} well when does that stop and people trust Fran's judgement on these players.

after all it is his head that is on the chopping block not anybody on this board.

Jok like these before him stepped up as a SR to lead the team in scoring,

Marble after Gatens left, White after Marble and then Uthoff, that is the method of Fran probably the main reason he plays 10-11 players as often as he can. Uhl is a SF and currently is the 6th man on this years team, next year he will start and it will not be at the 5 it will be at the 3 as Jok will move back to the 2.

with Fran NOBODY is irreplaceable.

 

[revkev73]

I meant...let's see them play in the big ten...as a positive...a way to demonstrate that they have the talent, even better than their HS stats might be. Just to make my intent more clear.

 

[EastIowaHawk]

You can bet that nothing next year will work out like the posters want it to. Woody, Uthoff, Gessell and Sapp are going to be sorely missed more than I want to think about. Cook might play a lot as the season goes on. The other freshmen, as much as we want to talk about them, are all going to be "works in progress." If Jones isn't back and healthy- one of the new bigs might get pressed into action. I think Bohannon, who is a better shooter than Connor McCaffery coming a year behind, sees more minutes than predicted, but next year could be a "down" rebuilding year, compared to this current team. New guys might see decent minutes in the non-conference "pre-season," but when the Big Ten starts, Fran will go with his most dependable rotation. I do think Kriener will make an impact, just not right out of the chute.

 

[revkev73]

One never knows about sports...especially team sports. New talent and leadership is often waiting to blossom and surprise. Historically, Iowa seems to be better when there are less expectations and hopes...Often "proven" experience and "talent" set to begin a new year...ends up disappointing. It seems Fran likes what is in store for the future. That is a good sign. We will see.

Interesting in golf how about this time last year the talk was about Rory, Ricky Fowler, et. al...and how many these young phenoms would win, especially majors. Now Jordan Spieth has arrived...two majors, number one ranking, shooting 30 under yesterday in Hawaii...and sayings, "I think most of the golfers are trying to work out the rust this time of year...I am much better than last year, right now." Young, confidence, with maturity. It will be fun to watch the new talent next year...Uhl and Baer have been pleasant surprises.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

I haven't seen Kriener play but the two players seem very similar.
Pems has looked a lot quicker and more explosive coming back from injury, and I think that his lack of offers is because of his early commitment and injury a couple seasons ago(or was it last season?) as he was still hearing from schools up until signing day.

Stat Lines
Pemsl: 20.9 points per game, 64.4 field goal %, 60.3 free throw percentage on 58 attempts, 82 rebounds (25 offensive and 57 defensive), 15 assists to 17 turnovers, and 12 blocks.

Kriener: 20.7 points per game, 69.8 field goal %, 63% free throw % on 54 attempts, 95 rebounds (35 offensive and 60 defensive, 17 assists to 17 turnovers, and 17 blocks.

The stats are similar the same with the advantage to Kriener, but Wahlert has played the tougher schedule thus far.

Schedules thus far
Spirit Lake:

Sioux Central, Sioux Rapids W 78-22
Cedar Rapids, Kennedy L 50-59
@Cherokee, Washington W 80-46
Western Christian, Hull L 48-78
@Estherville Lincoln Central W 76-39
@Emmetsburg W 78-39
Bishop Garrigan, Algona W 86-41
@Woodbury Central W 71-53
Spencer W 72-37

Wahlert
@North Scott, Eldridge W 50-47
@Assumption, Davenport W 73-62
@Dowling Catholic, West Des Moines W 48-44
@Dubuque, Hempstead W 59-45
@Prairie, Cedar Rapids L 56-57
Waterloo, West W 66-50
@Central DeWitt W 77-28
Cedar Falls L 63-73

We won't know who's better unless they play against each other, which won't happen unless it's at state. Is Spirit Lake good enough to get there?

Thanks for updates. Looking forward to seeing these two, with Cook & Bohannon in PTL this summer...

 

[wondergrape]

If Dale Jones is healthy next year, I just don't see one of these two cracking a line up with Cook, Jones, Uhl, Baer, and Wagner ahead of them.

I have not been impressed with Jones. I think it's easily in the realm of possibility that one of these guys can split time with him. Besides, he doesn't really play the same position as them. They will be competing more with Wagner and Cook for time down low.