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People are leaving applesauce and broccoli at Scalia's funeral

The Tradition

HB King
Apr 23, 2002
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Jars of applesauce and bouquets of broccoli were left on the steps of the Supreme Court on Friday as part of a makeshift memorial for the late Justice Antonin Scalia.

The unusual items became symbols of the ObamaCare debate following colorful comments from Scalia, who was the court’s leading conservative.

In his dissenting opinion last year in King v. Burwell, Scalia called the majority’s reasoning for upholding ObamaCare subsidies “pure applesauce.”

And in 2012, during oral arguments in the first case challenging the healthcare law, Scalia questioned whether the administration could force people to buy broccoli if it required people to have health insurance.

“Could you define the market — everybody has to buy food sooner or later, so you define the market as food, therefore, everybody is in the market; therefore, you can make people buy broccoli,” he said.

http://thehill.com/regulation/court...oli-left-at-supreme-court-in-memory-of-scalia


The broccoli thing will probably happen to George H.W. Bush, too.

quote-i-do-not-like-broccoli-and-i-haven-t-liked-it-since-i-was-a-little-kid-and-my-mother-made-me-eat-george-h-w-bush-28403.jpg
 
I hope they were mocking him on this, his arguments were moronic.
Even at a person's funeral people like you can't get over yourself. He was a good man - even GInsberg says this. Just because he had different political opinions than you doesn't mean he deserves any less respect than a justice that you concurred with.
 
Even at a person's funeral people like you can't get over yourself. He was a good man - even GInsberg says this. Just because he had different political opinions than you doesn't mean he deserves any less respect than a justice that you concurred with.

I'm supposed to lie because he is dead? His broccoli argument is completely irrelevant in the health insurance discussion.
 
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Even at a person's funeral people like you can't get over yourself. He was a good man - even GInsberg says this. Just because he had different political opinions than you doesn't mean he deserves any less respect than a justice that you concurred with.
It's pretty sickening how Liberals act when a prominent Republican politician dies. Remember when Reagan passed? It was like a day of celebration for some. Absolutely disgusting.
 
His arguement was spot on.
Since the government can now decide if you do or do not need health insurance (they've decided you do), what's to prevent them from deciding you need broccoli? Seriously. What's stopping the government from forcing you to buy any product or service they deem to be in your best interest?
 
How? If the government can impose a "tax penalty" for not buying health insurance, why couldn't such a penalty be levied for failure to buy healthy food?

Because an individual's failure to purchase health insurance directly impacts my cost of health insurance. The system, as designed requires universal purchase of health insurance. In any event, Scalias dissent was entirely inconsistent with his previous stances and intellectually dishonest. Regulation of healthcare, the largest industry in our country is not interstate commerce as defined by our constitution but regulation of marijuana is?
 
Scalias dissent was entirely inconsistent with his previous stances and intellectually dishonest. Regulation of healthcare, the largest industry in our country is not interstate commerce as defined by our constitution but regulation of marijuana is?

It turns out that broccoli did not spring from the mind of Justice Scalia. The vegetable trail leads backward through conservative media and pundits. Before reaching the Supreme Court, vegetables were cited by a federal judge in Florida with a libertarian streak; in an Internet video financed by libertarian and ultraconservative backers; at a Congressional hearing by a Republican senator; and an op-ed column by David B. Rivkin Jr., a libertarian lawyer whose family emigrated from the former Soviet Union when he was 10.

Even those who reject the broccoli argument appreciate its simplicity. Whatever the Supreme Court rules, Mr. Rivkin and his libertarian allies have turned the decision into a cliffhanger that few thought possible.

“I have some grudging admiration for them,” said Akhil Amar, a professor of law and political science at Yale and author of a book on the Constitution. “All the more so because it’s such a bad argument. They have been politically brilliant. They needed a simplistic metaphor, and in broccoli they got it.”

The seeds of the broccoli debate date back to the early 1990s, when President Bill Clinton first proposed a universal health care plan. It included a requirement that all businesses provide health insurance to their employees. “How can the government do that?” Mr. Rivkin wondered, explaining, “It’s just the way I am.”

Mr. Rivkin attended Georgetown University while working three jobs, including cleaning animal cages at a lab. He later worked in the White House counsel’s office under President George H. W. Bush and now, at 55, is a partner in the Washington office of the law firm Baker Hostetler.

“I’m driven by two things,” he said. “Enormous appreciation bordering on burning love for the American system. It gives people with drive and motivation and hard work an opportunity to be all you can be. And a healthy suspicion of governmental power, having come from an environment where you had an all-powerful totalitarian government.”

With his law partner Lee A. Casey, Mr. Rivkin took aim at Congress’s power under the commerce clause of the Constitution. It had become the source of ever-expanding legislative power since Chief Justice John Marshall wrote in 1824 that Congressional power to regulate commerce “may be exercised to its utmost extent.”

In a September 1993 commentary in The Wall Street Journal, Mr. Rivkin and Mr. Casey argued that the Clinton proposal was unconstitutional. Requiring Americans to buy insurance went a step beyond a famous 1942 case, Wickard v. Filburn, which has long been a thorn in the side of those who opposed the New Deal. In it, the Supreme Court ruled that Congress had the power to prevent a farmer from growing wheat for his own consumption on the theory that any wheat affected the total supply, and thus fell within interstate commerce.

The health care law, the two lawyers maintained, did not ban an existing activity like growing wheat, but forced people who were doing nothing to act in a certain way. If Congress could regulate inactivity, they argued, there might be no limit to what it could force people to do. “If Congress thinks Americans are too fat,” the article said, “can it not decree that Americans shall lose weight?”

“Would the Bill of Rights intervene?” it continued. “Maybe, and maybe not. There is no specific right to eat when and how you like.”

The Clinton administration’s health care effort collapsed. But Mr. Rivkin’s unorthodox theory lived on, nurtured by “a small but discernible, libertarian segment of academia,” he said. One advocate, Ilya Shapiro of the Cato Institute, said “we were treated with condescension bordering on rudeness” by the legal establishment.

Mr. Rivkin recalled, “We were met with howls of derision.”

An Analogy Returns

By 2009, with the Obama administration pushing its health care initiative, one that included a requirement that Americans buy health insurance, Mr. Rivkin and Mr. Casey returned to the Wall Street Journal and Washington Post op-ed pages. Mr. Rivkin also took his argument to Senator Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah.

Senator Hatch had earlier supported an individual insurance mandate as an alternative to a more sweeping plan championed by Hillary Clinton. But after listening to Mr. Rivkin, the senator embraced the argument. “If we have the power to simply order Americans to buy certain products, why did we need a Cash for Clunkers program or the upcoming program providing rebates for purchasing energy-saving appliances?” Senator Hatch asked during hearings in October 2009. “We could simply require Americans to buy certain cars, dishwashers or refrigerators.”

His remarks struck a chord with Terence P. Jeffrey, the editor in chief of CNS News, an Internet publication formerly known as the Conservative News Service. Both his parents are doctors, and he has a particular interest in health care.

After reading the transcript of Senator Hatch’s comments and the Supreme Court’s opinion in the wheat case, Mr. Jeffrey shared the senator’s concerns. But he figured most Americans would not understand an abstract debate over the limits of the commerce clause. Searching for an easy-to-grasp analogy, he hit upon something “that would go more to health care, something that people would universally recognize was good for you,” he said. Broccoli. “I know George Bush didn’t like broccoli. It seemed an obvious thing that everyone thinks is good for you.”

“Can President Barack Obama and Congress enact legislation that orders Americans to buy broccoli?” Mr. Jeffrey wrote in his Oct. 21, 2009, CNS column.

“This is not a question about nutrition. It is not a question about whether broccoli is good for you,” the column continued. “It is a question about the constitutional limits on the power of the federal government. It is a question about freedom.”

The column appears to be the first public mention of broccoli in the context of the commerce clause. If so, Mr. Jeffrey said, “that’s pretty cool.”

President Obama’s health care law passed on March 21, 2010. That summer, after the president nominated his solicitor general, Elena Kagan, to the Supreme Court, the subject of vegetables resurfaced in confirmation hearings. Senator Tom Coburn, Republican of Oklahoma, who is also a medical doctor, asked, “If I wanted to sponsor a bill and it said, ‘Americans, you have to eat three vegetables and three fruits every day,’ and I got it through Congress and it’s now the law of the land, got to do it, does that violate the commerce clause?”

“Sounds like a dumb law,” Ms. Kagan replied.

The exchange caught the attention of Austin Bragg, 33, a producer for Reason TV. He proposed a video to his editor, Nick Gillespie. Reason TV and its magazine and Internet outlets are subsidiaries of the Reason Foundation, a libertarian research organization whose largest donors are the David H. Koch Charitable Foundation ($1,522,212) and the Sarah Scaife Foundation ($2,016,000), according to the foundations’ most recent filings. Both finance conservative and libertarian causes.

“Part of the idea for Reason is we’re ideological and we’re trying to articulate and popularize our worldview and have some influence,” Mr. Gillespie said.

Creating a Villain

The video, “Wheat, Weed and Obamacare: How the Commerce Clause Made Congress All-Powerful,” was shown on YouTube and the Reason Web site in August 2010. “Legal titans John Eastman and Erwin Chemerinsky slug it out to determine whether or not Congress has been abusing the commerce clause,” Reason’s Web site proclaimed. Professor Eastman, a conservative, teaches at Chapman University in Orange, Calif., and clerked for Justice Clarence Thomas of the Supreme Court. He is also chairman of the National Organization for Marriage, which opposes gay marriage. Professor Chemerinsky, a liberal, is dean of the law school at the University of California, Irvine.

In the Reason video, Professor Chemerinsky got the worst of it. The clip shows Senator Coburn asking Ms. Kagan about eating vegetables and fruits, and cuts to Professor Chemerinsky. He appears to struggle with the question of limits to Congressional power, saying at one point, “Congress can force economic transactions,” and at another, “power can be used in silly ways and the Constitution isn’t our protector.” Professor Eastman comes off better, as he questions whether Americans want “an unlimited, amorphous government that can make us do whatever it wants?”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/14/b...-a-symbol-in-the-health-care-debate.html?_r=0
 
I'm supposed to lie because he is dead? His broccoli argument is completely irrelevant in the health insurance discussion.
It's a rule around here when bad things happen for conservatives the only acceptable reply is Ts and Ps. They are a very sensitive lot.
 
Because an individual's failure to purchase health insurance directly impacts my cost of health insurance. The system, as designed requires universal purchase of health insurance. In any event, Scalias dissent was entirely inconsistent with his previous stances and intellectually dishonest. Regulation of healthcare, the largest industry in our country is not interstate commerce as defined by our constitution but regulation of marijuana is?

But...............because I live in the land of the free, if I have a choice to purchase insurance where I wish, I should be able to purchase insurance from a pool of people who are healthier. You imply that a universal purchase is the answer. (And shouldn't fat people, drug users, and sky divers pay more?)

There is NO WAY ON HELL that the Federal Government can control costs on health insurance. In my mind this has been proven multiple times in multiple ways.

I believe that market controls on a capitalistic system would have been much more successful. Competition will lead to lower costs. Look at the bloated Federal government and try to defend this idiotic system.

Anyone who trusts our bureaucratic system is nuts. There are no consequences for the Federal employs. And why would politicians who face no consequences set up a system any other way.
 
Yeah, requesting respect for someone when they die is just SOOO over the top.

That anyone actually needs to post this says far more about you than those "sensitive conservatives".

Hate to say it but if it weren't for Crazy Uncle Joe, I'd celebrate if Air Force 1 ran into a mountain.
 
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Amazing how you never challenged him to debate his comments while he was living. You must be soooo smart.
Of course I said they were moronic while he was living. I said that about his opinions often. The fact that he extended constitutional protections to corporations while saying he is a constitutional originalist is not the mark of an honest person.
 
You are a real piece of shit. I would add your mug to the "punchable face" thread but like most you are way too gutless to show it...

I'm a piece of shit for speaking my mind? Thank goodness this is still a place where you can express an opinion freely without fear of violence.
 
Of course I said they were moronic while he was living. I said that about his opinions often. The fact that he extended constitutional protections to corporations while saying he is a constitutional originalist is not the mark of an honest person.

You do realize that corporations existed when the country was founded, don't you?
 
Of course I said they were moronic while he was living. I said that about his opinions often. The fact that he extended constitutional protections to corporations while saying he is a constitutional originalist is not the mark of an honest person.


You would've made a name for yourself by making a Supreme Court justice look foolish, obviously you saved him from embarrassment.


You're so kind.
 
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Of course I said they were moronic while he was living. I said that about his opinions often. The fact that he extended constitutional protections to corporations while saying he is a constitutional originalist is not the mark of an honest person.

Just making a point here, don't forget you're a Cow Tipper. :D
 
You do realize that corporations existed when the country was founded, don't you?

You realize that even though corporations existed at the adoption of the constitution, they are only mentioned one, and only one time in that document, freedom of the press. If the originators of the constitution had wanted to grant protections like religion and speech to corporations wouldn't they have mentioned that. The document is silent. How can someone who repeatedly stated the constitution must be read literally justify extending protections to a group not named? He was a political hack, not a "giant of a legal mind" as he has been cannonized in many places.
 
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You realize that even though corporations existed at the adoption of the constitution, they are only mentioned one, and only one time in that document, freedom of the press. If the originators of the constitution had wanted to grant protections like religion and speech to corporations wouldn't they have mentioned that. The document is silent. How can someone who repeatedly stated the constitution must be read literally justify extending protections to a group not named? He was a political hack, not a "giant of a legal mind" as he has been cannonized in many places.

Clue: the Federal government doesn't grant rights of incorporation. States do.

Go to the back of the class and think about the errors of your ways.
 
Clue: the Federal government doesn't grant rights of incorporation. States do.

Go to the back of the class and think about the errors of your ways.

So why is the federal government granting protections to them? You have no clue what you are talking about do you?
 
So why is the federal government granting protections to them? You have no clue what you are talking about do you?

Incorporation is why people risk their fortunes to build great organizations. You anti-corporation types are calling for an end to a social contract that has enabled the very lifestyle you enjoy today.
 
Incorporation is why people risk their fortunes to build great organizations. You anti-corporation types are calling for an end to a social contract that has enabled the very lifestyle you enjoy today.

Who says I'm anti corporation? They are not people. They do not vote. They do not have the same rights as citizens. In any event, the discussion is on the intellectual dishonesty of Scalia in saying that, while he is describing himself as an originalist.
 
Yeah, requesting respect for someone when they die is just SOOO over the top.

That anyone actually needs to post this says far more about you than those "sensitive conservatives".
Everyone wants to be PC all of a sudden. Look how that worked out. o_O
 
Who says I'm anti corporation? They are not people. They do not vote. They do not have the same rights as citizens. In any event, the discussion is on the intellectual dishonesty of Scalia in saying that, while he is describing himself as an originalist.

A corporation IS people. People form them, people work for them, and people manage them. A corporation absolutely is an entity that has rights.
 
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