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Pledging to Disobey a Supreme Court Ruling

Nov 28, 2010
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Last week, Miranda noted that Mike Huckabee and Rick Scarborough had joined with dozens of anti-gay Religious Right activists in signing a pledge vowing not to obey any Supreme Court ruling legalizing gay marriage.

Liberty Counsel's Mat Staver, one of the co-authors of the pledge, appeared on Newsmax's "American Forum" program on Friday to discuss the topic, where he declared that signing the pledge would now be a litmus test for all presidential hopefuls.

When host J.D. Hayworth asked Staver if he expected other Republican candidates to follow Huckabee and Santorum's lead in adding their names, he declared that he expected every candidate to sign on.

"We're going to ask every presidential candidate - Republican and Democrat - to sign on to this pledge and it's going to be very telling if they don't," Staver said....
 
Very telling that either thinks they will even have the opportunity to disobey any court ruling on the matter. Are they coming out of the closet? Are they lovers? Do I have to claim them?
 
Very telling that either thinks they will even have the opportunity to disobey any court ruling on the matter. Are they coming out of the closet? Are they lovers? Do I have to claim them?

This is certainly what I wondered. So, the SCOTUS rules that States must recognize other States' valid SSMs, and that States cannot discriminate based on SSM....

What opportunity does an ex-governor, TV host, and former pastors have to "disobey" that? Is this IF they are elected President? Even then, what opportunity would they have?
 
LINK

Last week, Miranda noted that Mike Huckabee and Rick Scarborough had joined with dozens of anti-gay Religious Right activists in signing a pledge vowing not to obey any Supreme Court ruling legalizing gay marriage.

Liberty Counsel's Mat Staver, one of the co-authors of the pledge, appeared on Newsmax's "American Forum" program on Friday to discuss the topic, where he declared that signing the pledge would now be a litmus test for all presidential hopefuls.

When host J.D. Hayworth asked Staver if he expected other Republican candidates to follow Huckabee and Santorum's lead in adding their names, he declared that he expected every candidate to sign on.

"We're going to ask every presidential candidate - Republican and Democrat - to sign on to this pledge and it's going to be very telling if they don't," Staver said....
That's idiotic. How can they disobey the ruling?
 
our governor here in tx who is abbott, will certainly never go along with any ruling from a kangaroo court made up of commies appointed by Obama
 
I'm guessing they punt and say they have zero jurisdiction, and send it back to the states to decide. which is what they should have done with the aca.
 
I'm guessing they punt and say they have zero jurisdiction, and send it back to the states to decide. which is what they should have done with the aca.
If they thought they didn't have jurisdiction, they wouldn't have agreed to take the case in the first place. They get to choose the cases they hear you know.

IMO the court will rule for the 15th time that marriage is a fundamental right that should apply with out regard to immutable characteristics. Texas will get used to it, you all like your men in heels and tight pants anyway.
 
they have ruled 14 other times that marriage is a right, between two guys or two gals? interesting
 
rights are granted to us by God

if god says marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman, then so be it, who am I to argue?
 
rights are granted to us by God

if god says marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman, then so be it, who am I to argue?
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since I don't believe marriage is a right, I'm not arguing for group rights

I actually believe marriage is an anti-right, it takes rights away, in the eyes of the state that is.

two people must give up rights to the god-like state. they give money, and they enter into a contract, or license. most libertarians believe a license issued by the state is not correct: a plumber's license, a driver's license, etc.
 
since I don't believe marriage is a right, I'm not arguing for group rights

I actually believe marriage is an anti-right, it takes rights away, in the eyes of the state that is.

two people must give up rights to the god-like state. they give money, and they enter into a contract, or license. most libertarians believe a license issued by the state is not correct: a plumber's license, a driver's license, etc.
Fortunately, rights are a matter of law and not your personal beliefs.
 
if their only job is to pay attention to the constitution then they have failed miserably and all should be fired
 
Fortunately, rights are a matter of law and not your personal beliefs.
they most certainly are not ....rights have nothing to do with law, as far as the usa in 2015 goes. rights are granted by the creator, or god. modern law is lawless, man-made law and original rights as they were intended by the founders- these are two different things. the supremes are messing with man made laws. and making the creator into the state. they are playing god. that's fine if they wish to do this, but they shall pay a price. not my beliefs , just a fact.

the founders realized this and stated that rights are issued to us at birth by the creator, and that no kangaroo court can alter this. the fact that some people sit on high and make rulings: matters not in the grand scheme of things.

now, there is natural law and british common law, stuff like this, but this kangaroo court has gotten far away from it.

if two gheys wished to be common law united with no license,
and lived together, happy, I don't think too many folks would have a problem with it.

where the problem comes in is the creator said it's one man and one woman in the eyes of the lord. that's it. and our founders said our creator issues our rights. I cannot do a lot about all this stuff, I'm not god and
I was not a founder. all I can do is state facts.
 
they most certainly are not ....rights have nothing to do with law, as far as the usa in 2015 goes. rights are granted by the creator, or god. modern law is lawless, man-made law and original rights as they were intended by the founders- these are two different things. the supremes are messing with man made laws. and making the creator into the state. they are playing god. that's fine if they wish to do this, but they shall pay a price. not my beliefs , just a fact.

the founders realized this and stated that rights are issued to us at birth by the creator, and that no kangaroo court can alter this. the fact that some people sit on high and make rulings: matters not in the grand scheme of things.

now, there is natural law and british common law, stuff like this, but this kangaroo court has gotten far away from it.

if two gheys wished to be common law united with no license,
and lived together, happy, I don't think too many folks would have a problem with it.

where the problem comes in is the creator said it's one man and one woman in the eyes of the lord. that's it. and our founders said our creator issues our rights. I cannot do a lot about all this stuff, I'm not god and
I was not a founder. all I can do is state facts.
Facts; I don't think that word means what you think it means. First, it's not evident there even is a god, let alone one who defined marriage as you suggest. And it's that concept that forms the real basis of American law. It's all secular, gods don't get votes. And those founders are the very people who set up this system. Equal protection isn't some radical new legal theory. Finally all this creator talk from you is a bit rich considering your particular take on that terminology. ET isn't going to zap us if I get a marriage license.
 
equal protection is: it's not a right for a man and woman to get married so it's not a right for two gheys to get married. equal.
 
our governor here in tx who is abbott, will certainly never go along with any ruling from a kangaroo court made up of commies appointed by Obama

Obviously, you aren't the sharpest tool in the shed considering you don't know who appointed the majority of the SC justices.

Once again you've been shown to be lacking the acumen to participate in higher level discourse.

Go back to taking your medication as prescribed by your health care provider.
 
the supreme court? kangaroo courts? the creator? john hagee?
We have had this discussion before. SCOTUS has ruled 14 times that marriage is a fundamental human right. In the past tradition has placed gender limitations on that right. I believe in the near future those limits will be removed. As a person who just argued there should be no limits on the institution, it's puzzling why you object to this relaxation. It might also be helpful if you could define your use of the word creator. Most people use that word to mean a super natural deity. But I believe you use that word to reference what you believe to be our extra terrestrial alien fathers. That's sort of a key distinction to make clear.
 
they most certainly are not ....rights have nothing to do with law, as far as the usa in 2015 goes. rights are granted by the creator, or god. modern law is lawless, man-made law and original rights as they were intended by the founders- these are two different things. the supremes are messing with man made laws. and making the creator into the state. they are playing god. that's fine if they wish to do this, but they shall pay a price. not my beliefs , just a fact.

the founders realized this and stated that rights are issued to us at birth by the creator, and that no kangaroo court can alter this. the fact that some people sit on high and make rulings: matters not in the grand scheme of things.

now, there is natural law and british common law, stuff like this, but this kangaroo court has gotten far away from it.

if two gheys wished to be common law united with no license,
and lived together, happy, I don't think too many folks would have a problem with it.

where the problem comes in is the creator said it's one man and one woman in the eyes of the lord. that's it. and our founders said our creator issues our rights. I cannot do a lot about all this stuff, I'm not god and
I was not a founder. all I can do is state facts.

I am amazed, and intrigued, at the naivety and simplicity of this post and your rationale OiT, but I'm also confused.

You claim that "Rights are granted by the creator, or god." Ok, let me try to follow that premise, I presume using the Bill of Rights. That means that these rights (e.g.) were granted by God at some point:
Freedom of Religion
Freedom of Press
Freedom of Assembly
Freedom of Speech
Right to own/possess firearms
Right to not quarter soldiers
Right against unreasonable search/seizure
Right to indictment/grand jury
Right against self incrimination
Right to due process
Right to speedy and public trial/counsel/jury
Right against cruel and unusual punishment

Ok, a basic list, but a list nonetheless. Help me out here. Why would "God", as in the "One true God" and not many Gods separated amongst many religions grant the right/freedom of religion, or worshipping as one chooses. Doesn't "his" (Christian) commandment's specifically require one not to do that?

But, putting that initial one aside, what I really don't get is your naivety. You believe that God granted these rights, but history shows, in entirety, those "rights" being infringed on a minute-minute basis. Governments and private persons have murdered, imprisoned, raped, pillaged, and discriminated against on every one of these basis since the dawn of man. If these "rights" were granted by a creator...what was the purpose?

Realistically one does not have any "rights" if they aren't protected by some authority, whether a deity (who will actually act), a government, a group of persons, or a very large and scary person themselves (say, Daredevil, or Spiderman, or something). Can a journalist scream "God gave me freedom of the press!" as the people/government/whomever throw their computer out the window and then summarily execute them?

We only have "rights" when we all, collectively, agree to be bound by them. The US is a great example of this amazing feat. The day we decide not to be bound by these rights, they will simply not exist...regardless of whether some "creator" "granted" them at some point.

One does not have some magical "right" to stop the police from entering their house and seizing whatever they want, even without a warrant. Do you believe that holding the Constitution up in front of the door would stop them? Of course not. What keeps them from doing this (usually, hopefully) is the repercussion from the people, and their government, wanting to preserve these rights. Without the people/government enforcing the rights, they simply do not exist, except in a naive theory.
 
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I am amazed, and intrigued, at the naivety and simplicity of this post and your rationale OiT, but I'm also confused.

You claim that "Rights are granted by the creator, or god." Ok, let me try to follow that premise, I presume using the Bill of Rights. That means that these rights (e.g.) were granted by God at some point:
Freedom of Religion
Freedom of Press
Freedom of Assembly
Freedom of Speech
Right to own/possess firearms
Right to not quarter soldiers
Right against unreasonable search/seizure
Right to indictment/grand jury
Right against self incrimination
Right to due process
Right to speedy and public trial/counsel/jury
Right against cruel and unusual punishment

Ok, a basic list, but a list nonetheless. Help me out here. Why would "God", as in the "One true God" and not many Gods separated amongst many religions grant the right/freedom of religion, or worshipping as one chooses. Doesn't "his" (Christian) commandment's specifically require one not to do that?

But, putting that initial one aside, what I really don't get is your naivety. You believe that God granted these rights, but history shows, in entirety, those "rights" being infringed on a minute-minute basis. Governments and private persons have murdered, imprisoned, raped, pillaged, and discriminated against on every one of these basis since the dawn of man. If these "rights" were granted by a creator...what was the purpose?

Realistically one does not have any "rights" if they aren't protected by some authority, whether a deity (who will actually act), a government, a group of persons, or a very large and scary person themselves (say, Daredevil, or Spiderman, or something). Can a journalist scream "God gave me freedom of the press!" as the people/government/whomever throw their computer out the window and then summarily execute them?

We only have "rights" when we all, collectively, agree to be bound by them. The US is a great example of this amazing feat. The day we decide not to be bound by these rights, they will simply not exist...regardless of whether some "creator" "granted" them at some point.

One does not have some magical "right" to stop the police from entering their house and seizing whatever they want, even without a warrant. Do you believe that holding the Constitution up in front of the door would stop them? Of course not. What keeps them from doing this (usually, hopefully) is the repercussion from the people, and their government, wanting to preserve these rights. Without the people/government enforcing the rights, they simply do not exist, except in a naive theory.
If you are just encountering OiT, welcome to a fascinating journey. But it might help to know that OiT has a very particular and peculiar definition of "god" and "creator" that isn't at all what one might expect. OiT will force you to explore many interesting facets to what you thought were routinely settled matters.

In a nut shell OiT thinks the movie Stargate was a documentary. Living alien beings visited earth, made and continue to control humans. The aliens are the creators or gods he speaks of who gave us laws and get to define our rights. They wrote the constitution and if we don't do as they intended they will take action against us. So being constitutional is a way to appease real aliens from blasting us from their base on the far side of the moon which is also where our "souls" download on our death.

Welcome to OiT's world. You should ask him about 9/11, Rick Perry and Whitney Huston sometime.
 
SCOTUS Justices are not elected and there only job is to pay attention to the constitution. Just sayin.
Well, that's the theory. In practice it hasn't stopped them before in ignoring the constitution and writing political opinions having nothing to do with the constitution. Chief Justice Warren (and the Warren court) was notorious for the "ends justify the means" practice of Constitutional law.
 
If you are just encountering OiT, welcome to a fascinating journey. But it might help to know that OiT has a very particular and peculiar definition of "god" and "creator" that isn't at all what one might expect. OiT will force you to explore many interesting facets to what you thought were routinely settled matters.

In a nut shell OiT thinks the movie Stargate was a documentary. Living alien beings visited earth, made and continue to control humans. The aliens are the creators or gods he speaks of who gave us laws and get to define our rights. They wrote the constitution and if we don't do as they intended they will take action against us. So being constitutional is a way to appease real aliens from blasting us from their base on the far side of the moon which is also where our "souls" download on our death.

.

Ok, that is fine, alien creator accepted. But if those same alien overlords don't in fact protect the "rights" they granted, those rights are useless, and aren't really "rights" at all. At no point do those alien overlords appear to have "taken action against us", therefore we, the people, determine what our rights are.

Also, why would God/Alien/whomever, give rights only to Americans (or Texans, for that matter)? And if they did specifically do that for those specific people, why not protect them when their "rights" are infringed?
 
Ok, that is fine, alien creator accepted. But if those same alien overlords don't in fact protect the "rights" they granted, those rights are useless, and aren't really "rights" at all. At no point do those alien overlords appear to have "taken action against us", therefore we, the people, determine what our rights are.

Also, why would God/Alien/whomever, give rights only to Americans (or Texans, for that matter)? And if they did specifically do that for those specific people, why not protect them when their "rights" are infringed?
Oh he has answers. If you get him going you will be entertained with tales of just how actively involved lizard people and men in black are in our lives. You will learn how America was a special alien experiment in social control. OiT does not lack for answers, it's a well developed if contradictory alternative view point that never fails to impress.
 
I am amazed, and intrigued, at the naivety and simplicity of this post and your rationale OiT, but I'm also confused.

You claim that "Rights are granted by the creator, or god." Ok, let me try to follow that premise, I presume using the Bill of Rights. That means that these rights (e.g.) were granted by God at some point:
Freedom of Religion
Freedom of Press
Freedom of Assembly
Freedom of Speech
Right to own/possess firearms
Right to not quarter soldiers
Right against unreasonable search/seizure
Right to indictment/grand jury
Right against self incrimination
Right to due process
Right to speedy and public trial/counsel/jury
Right against cruel and unusual punishment

Ok, a basic list, but a list nonetheless. Help me out here. Why would "God", as in the "One true God" and not many Gods separated amongst many religions grant the right/freedom of religion, or worshipping as one chooses. Doesn't "his" (Christian) commandment's specifically require one not to do that?

But, putting that initial one aside, what I really don't get is your naivety. You believe that God granted these rights, but history shows, in entirety, those "rights" being infringed on a minute-minute basis. Governments and private persons have murdered, imprisoned, raped, pillaged, and discriminated against on every one of these basis since the dawn of man. If these "rights" were granted by a creator...what was the purpose?

Realistically one does not have any "rights" if they aren't protected by some authority, whether a deity (who will actually act), a government, a group of persons, or a very large and scary person themselves (say, Daredevil, or Spiderman, or something). Can a journalist scream "God gave me freedom of the press!" as the people/government/whomever throw their computer out the window and then summarily execute them?

We only have "rights" when we all, collectively, agree to be bound by them. The US is a great example of this amazing feat. The day we decide not to be bound by these rights, they will simply not exist...regardless of whether some "creator" "granted" them at some point.

One does not have some magical "right" to stop the police from entering their house and seizing whatever they want, even without a warrant. Do you believe that holding the Constitution up in front of the door would stop them? Of course not. What keeps them from doing this (usually, hopefully) is the repercussion from the people, and their government, wanting to preserve these rights. Without the people/government enforcing the rights, they simply do not exist, except in a naive theory.

"Realistically one does not have any "rights" if they aren't protected by some authority, whether a deity (who will actually act), a government, a group of persons, or a very large and scary person themselves (say, Daredevil, or Spiderman, or something)."

IMO this statement is incorrect. It's contrary to what Jefferson said about these rights. You are basically stating "rights" only come from the gov't, therefore, they can be taken away when ever the gov't chooses. Just because the Soviet Union didn't protect the rights of it's citizens to free speech, doesn't mean the people weren't born with those rights. The gov't violates or fails to protect our rights all the time but it doesn't mean we are inherently born with them. Just because the Obama administration chose to violate the religious freedoms of people with the contraception mandate, doesn't mean everyone wasn't born with that right. Are rights don't come from the gov't, they are inalienable.

Now, if you want to argue they aren't of much value to us unless the gov't protects those rights, then you have a good argument, but are rights don't cease to exist because the gov't violates them. The rights exist the gov't just violates our inherent rights.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_and_legal_rights
 
I won't be voting for any candidate who signs the pledge.
I wish these pledges would not come up but both sides have them. I am sure not sure how a POTUS would not obey the SCOTUS ruling. Maybe his Justice dept would not enforce existing law on the subject. BHO showed the way on that issue
 
"Realistically one does not have any "rights" if they aren't protected by some authority, whether a deity (who will actually act), a government, a group of persons, or a very large and scary person themselves (say, Daredevil, or Spiderman, or something)."

IMO this statement is incorrect. It's contrary to what Jefferson said about these rights. You are basically stating "rights" only come from the gov't, therefore, they can be taken away when ever the gov't chooses. Just because the Soviet Union didn't protect the rights of it's citizens to free speech, doesn't mean the people weren't born with those rights. The gov't violates or fails to protect our rights all the time but it doesn't mean we are inherently born with them. Just because the Obama administration chose to violate the religious freedoms of people with the contraception mandate, doesn't mean everyone wasn't born with that right. Are rights don't come from the gov't, they are inalienable.

Now, if you want to argue they aren't of much value to us unless the gov't protects those rights, then you have a good argument, but are rights don't cease to exist because the gov't violates them. The rights exist the gov't just violates our inherent rights.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_and_legal_rights

I am only "basically" saying that if you ignore my post, wherein I specifically discuss people. A government is just a collection of people.

This kind of statement just flat out doesn't make sense:
"Just because the Soviet Union didn't protect the rights of it's citizens to free speech, doesn't mean the people weren't born with those rights. "

Use science. Prove they had a "right" to anything. You can't, because all demonstrable tests would show they did not. (interestingly, most of our "American" rights were, in fact, codified by the Soviet constitution). If they were "born with" those "rights", how would they know, how would they be asserted, how would they be protected? Obviously they wouldn't, and they didn't.

Ok, answer this: You, PhantomFlyer, were born with the "right" of "religious freedom". Ok, now what? What does that mean?

You ignore (or fail to comprehend) the most important aspect of what that very quote means: It must be written and protected for it to be a right. That, specifically, is why they wrote it down and passed it as law. It would be redundant otherwise. Jefferson knew this, the founders knew this.

For bloody common sense man, they had a convention to decide what rights to include. If they were "unalienable" and "endowed by their Creator" that would not only be superfluous, but a hindrance to the actual idea that they were "born" with them.

You need to first define a "right", do you agree with this one? From MW:

2: something to which one has a just claim: as
a : the power or privilege to which one is justly entitled
 
I wish these pledges would not come up but both sides have them. I am sure not sure how a POTUS would not obey the SCOTUS ruling. Maybe his Justice dept would not enforce existing law on the subject. BHO showed the way on that issue

You can't really believe that the current President was the first to do this, do you?

And while we are discussing it, which Supreme Court opinions do you believe the current DOJ is not obeying?
 
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