POLL: Automatic Voter Registration of 18-Year-Olds
- Thread starter What Would Jesus Do?
- Start date
Today's liberals have nothing at all in common with the founding fathers. Neither do conservatives (not in practice anyway). They were 100% libertarian by today's standards.
From what I understand, Hillary actually is in favor of automatic registration for everyone - not just 18 year olds.
I'd be interested in hearing more specifics about how this automatic registration process would work, especially as it pertains to 18 year olds.
18 is a time of transition for most people. It's the age when many people move out of their parents' house for the first time. Maybe they're off to college. Maybe they're getting their first apartment with some friends and entering the work force. Some join the military. Some might even marry their high school sweetheart and start a family.
It would be interesting to see how an automatic registration process could possibly track these changes to make sure each person is registered to vote in the correct precinct.
I'd be interested in hearing more specifics about how this automatic registration process would work, especially as it pertains to 18 year olds.
18 is a time of transition for most people. It's the age when many people move out of their parents' house for the first time. Maybe they're off to college. Maybe they're getting their first apartment with some friends and entering the work force. Some join the military. Some might even marry their high school sweetheart and start a family.
It would be interesting to see how an automatic registration process could possibly track these changes to make sure each person is registered to vote in the correct precinct.
We have a constitutional right to vote. Why should registration (or IDs) be required at all?
Authoritarians are always trying to make restrictions on rights sound reasonable. Just think about the "if you have nothing to hide..." defenses of excessive surveillance. This is the same kind of fascist thinking. People don't have to earn the rights they already have. Laziness isn't a crime - or an excuse for government to keep citizens from voting.
To help ensure that everyone's constitutional right to vote and have their vote count isn't nullified by people who vote illegally.
We have a constitutional right to bear arms. Why should registration be required for gun ownership at all?
We have a constitutional right to freedom of speech. Why should I have to show my library card when I want to check out a book? They should just let me take whatever I want off the shelves.
I give you points for consistency here, WWJD. A person cannot be automatically registered to vote at 18 without some proof of his/her existence; if it can be required for registration, there's no valid argument against requiring it for voting. Of course, there's no valid argument against requiring it for voting, anyway, but that's another matter.
Hillary went off the deep end a couple of days ago on this subject. Kasich ripped her a new one, and he isn't alone. How anyone could think that woman would be a good president absolutely boggles the mind.
The differences here are instructive.
The reason why we have some hoops to jump through on guns is to prevent those who have already proved that they can't be trusted with guns from getting them.
Whereas we do NOT require any ID or preapproval to speak, publish OR READ. You can read all you want without a library card. Heck, you can read all you want IN the library without a library card.
My rights are MY rights and should not be contingent upon the responsibility level of others. I am a responsible gun owner. Why should I have to jump through hoops just because a certain percentage of the population isn't?
And I want to take the books home to read them on my couch. Requiring me to show identification before doing so constitutes a restriction of my rights. Or at the very least an annoying impediment.
Proving that many sensible ideas can be carried to silly extremes if you work hard enough.
It was necessary to carry my point to a silly extreme in order to illustrate how silly your point sounds.
As Americans we enjoy many rights. And every single one of those rights comes with some level of responsibility or personal requirement. To repeatedly insist that voting should be utterly devoid of any personal requirements is just silliness.
What your example shows is that you aren't thinking about this sensibly. If something is a right, it should be really hard to deny or restrict it and doing so should require really good reasons.
Guns are dangerous. So we can come up with good reasons. And most rights yield to being restricted through "due process of law" when those rights are abused.
But how does any of that apply to voting?
The only argument your side offers for restricting voting is voting fraud. Let's skip the counter-argument that this is a virtually non-existent danger. Instead let's ask how we can curtail voter fraud without infringing our constitutional right to vote. But your side doesn't ask that question. In fact, as shown here again and again, your side won't even accept compromises that require an ID and include efforts to find and provide IDs to every eligible voter. Why not, unless eliminating voter fraud isn't your real aim?
Is someone making the argument that libraries are constitutionally mandated? I like this idea, but I'm not sure it's supportable.
First of all, there is no "my side" in this debate. I don't march in lockstep with the right and I think many of the voter id laws go too far. There are many on the right who see voter id as a means of curbing minority votes. That's not my goal. There are many on the left who see automatic registration and compulsory voting as a means of boosting Democratic turnout. That shouldn't be anyone's motive, either.
I am on record many times here stating that I think Ohio has it just about right. They allow any valid government issued id, military id, or student id. They also allow paycheck stubs, government check stubs, cell phone bills, and utility bills, provided they show your current address.
I also support providing free ids to people who can't afford one. I'm willing to consider any common sense initiative that makes voting as fair and simple as possible for everyone. To me the concept of verifying a voter's identity just seems like good common sense.
It doesn't matter to me whether the idea came from the right or from the left. I think, for example, that states should be required to maintain a certain ratio of polling stations per capita. I think it's ridiculous that some people, especially in inner cities, have to wait in line for hours to vote. The whole process shouldn't take more than a few minutes.
Too bad. It sure read that way and as a proponent of making education a civil right that idea excited me.
Is education not already a civil right? Do we not provide 13 years or more of publicly funded education to every child in America?
Is there a dearth of libraries? It seems to me that the ones we do have are grossly underutilized. Brick-and-mortar libraries are quickly becoming antiquated in the 21st century.
You know I always thought it was too. But in a conversation here it was shown not to be an actual civil right. I think changing that status would go a long way toward improving our poor performing schools as then kids could sue their school for not teaching them.
[1] But you failed. You didn't address my points, you just got silly.
[2] And there you are wrong. What personal requirement or level of responsibility is required for the rights guaranteed in amendments 3-9 of the Bill of Rights?
I'm republican and I believe this seems reasonable. Just like voter ID's are reasonable. I'm all for reducing fraud risk and taking the appropriate steps to try and ensure accurate vote tallies during elections.
I think before we have automatic voter registration, we should implement automatic registration for selective service. Then again I am so far past the age of 18 that maybe it is automatic by now.
Me too, on the age thing. Seems like we could combine those functions - assuming there is still a Selective Service and that it now requires females to register.
Those rights mostly protect citizens from government infringement. I should amend my statement to say that all of rights to do something in particular require a certain level of personal responsibility.
The right to free speech requires that we not intentionally libel someone and we not intentionally incite panic by shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater that isn't on fire. The right to bear arms often requires that we register our guns and submit to a background check prior to purchase. The right to marry requires that we purchase a marriage license and pay the associated fee. Even the right to free public education isn't really free. I just paid about $900 in various fees to send my kids back to our local public school for the new school year.
what if you don't want to vote? it's your right. screw the feds, automatic registration of anything is unconstitutional
cool, finally a con against voter IDs. Now I'm going to need to rethink my position.
Interesting thought. If I turn in proof I voted 5 times can I get the entire week off?
Probably a lot longer.Interesting thought. If I turn in proof I voted 5 times can I get the entire week off?
For the most part, the examples you give avert harm to others. What harm are you averting by objecting to automatic registration? And if you aren't averting any harm, what's your justification? Just wanting people to work hard to enjoy their constitutional rights isn't really a good reason.
Interesting. The libraries here are heavily used. Multi-million dollar bonds have been passed in the past few years to renovate or build libraries in my county.
I like it, and they should take their picture and give them an ID/voter registration card when they do it. Then they can show it at the polls.
It's a law to register for the draft when you're 18 (though not well-enforced), why couldn't this be similar?
Why don't we register people when they are in high school? Wouldn't take effect until they are 18 of course, but it would be easy to get it done. Except maybe for chronic truants and dropouts. Maybe make it so you can't graduate without getting it done. And, really, do we want people who haven't even finished HS voting anyway? Make it easy for them but if they manage to dodge it, let's not lose any sleep over them.
We could also make other things that people want contingent upon being registered to vote. Want to drive, show your registration card before you can get your license - and if you don't have one, we'll do it at the DMV. Want to drink? Show your voter card. Want to sign up for cable TV or have a smart phone? Sure, not all of those make equal sense, but some would probably work our pretty well. In any case, you get the idea.
And how about combining things? Combined drivers license, library card, and voter registration card.
We could also make other things that people want contingent upon being registered to vote. Want to drive, show your registration card before you can get your license - and if you don't have one, we'll do it at the DMV. Want to drink? Show your voter card. Want to sign up for cable TV or have a smart phone? Sure, not all of those make equal sense, but some would probably work our pretty well. In any case, you get the idea.
And how about combining things? Combined drivers license, library card, and voter registration card.
I'm just going to be lazy here and cut and paste what I posted back in June:
18 is a time of transition for most people. It's the age when many people move out of their parents' house for the first time. Maybe they're off to college. Maybe they're getting their first apartment with some friends and entering the work force. Some join the military. Some might even marry their high school sweetheart and start a family.
It would be interesting to see how an automatic registration process could possibly track these changes to make sure each person is registered to vote in the correct precinct.
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