POLL: Biden's 2025 budget proposal includes about $3 trillion in deficit reduction, largely from raising taxes on high earners and corporations

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Biden Budget Will Underscore Divide With Republicans and Trump​

The president’s fiscal 2025 budget proposal includes about $3 trillion in deficit reduction over a decade, largely from raising taxes on high earners and corporations.

President Biden on Monday will propose a budget packed with tax increases on corporations and high earners, new spending on social programs, and a wide range of efforts to combat high consumer costs like housing and college tuition.

The new spending and tax increases included in the fiscal 2025 budget stand almost no chance of becoming law this year, given that Republicans control the House and roundly oppose Mr. Biden’s fiscal agenda. Last week, House Republicans passed a budget proposal outlining their priorities, which are far afield from what Democrats have called for.

Instead, the document will serve as a draft of Mr. Biden’s policy platform as he seeks re-election in November, along with a series of contrasts intended to draw a distinction with his presumptive Republican opponent, former President Donald J. Trump.

Mr. Biden has sought to reclaim strength on economic issues with voters who have given him low marks amid rapid inflation. This budget aims to portray him as a champion of increased government aid for workers, parents, manufacturers, retirees and students, as well as the fight against climate change. Mr. Biden’s budget proposes to more than offset the cost of those priorities through increased taxes on large companies and the wealthy. The president has already begun trying to portray Mr. Trump as the opposite: a supporter of further tax cuts for corporations.

“A fair tax code is how we invest in things that make this country great: health care, education, defense and so much more,” Mr. Biden said on Thursday during his State of the Union address.
Later in the speech, in a call-and-response with Democrats in the chamber, Mr. Biden added: “Folks at home, does anybody really think the tax code is fair? Do you really think the wealthy and big corporations need another $2 trillion tax break? I sure don’t. I’m going to keep fighting like hell to make it fair.”

Polls show Americans are dissatisfied with Mr. Biden’s handling of the economy and favor Mr. Trump’s approach to economic issues. But Mr. Biden has been unwavering in his core economic-policy strategy, and the budget is not expected to deviate from that plan.

more here:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/us/politics/biden-budget-will-underscore-divide-with-republicans-and-trump.html

 

[Rifler]

I thought we already did this "fair share" thing with the rich,.. or is this like the Russia sanctions?

 

[franklinman]

Under Filthy Don and the conservatives, big business and corporations received large tax breaks, its time they now pay up.

 

[IAFB2021Champs]

big companies should pay but why do we need to used the money for big companies to pay off our deficit. Why not used the money for something else. I mean we’re sending weapons and money to other countries to increase our deficit so what’s the difference if we pay some of when our country is continually going more and more into the hole.

 

[Rifler]

big companies should pay but why do we need to used the money for big companies to pay off our deficit. Why not used the money for something else. I mean we’re sending weapons and money to other countries to increase our deficit so what’s the difference if we pay some of when our country is continually going more and more into the hole.

wtf?...

 

[coloradonoles]

Any raising of taxes on corporations is a defacto tax raise on everyone... do you really think corporations are just going to pay the extra money out of profit? A kindergartener knows this...

We don't have a revenue problem... we have a spending problem.

 

[Rifler]

Any raising of taxes on corporations is a defacto tax raise on everyone... do you really think corporations are just going to pay the extra money out of profit? A kindergartener knows this...

We don't have a revenue problem... we have a spending problem.

Correct,.. Corporations don't pay taxes, they collect them

 

[ping72]

 

[IAFB2021Champs]

wtf?...

The national debt will never be paid off. Is it really making much difference if we pay off a few more million here and there.

Why not use the money from taxing big companies and use it towards something useful. For instance, how about opening up some mental health facilities.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Any raising of taxes on corporations is a defacto tax raise on everyone... do you really think corporations are just going to pay the extra money out of profit? A kindergartener knows this...

We don't have a revenue problem... we have a spending problem.

Correct,.. Corporations don't pay taxes, they collect them

Nonsense. Sure some taxes are passed on, and yes, corps collect some taxes, so you're not completely off base. What you are missing - and probably hate - is the importance of targeted taxes and tax breaks for shaping and steering the market and the economy.

So many things we value were encouraged and so many harms were discouraged by the power to tax.

Our 3rd graders want to scream "the power to tax is the power to destroy." It can be. But we have a government of laws and checks and balances. It's starting to look fragile, but it keeps the destroying bit pretty well in check.

 

[Rifler]

The national debt will never be paid off. Is it really making much difference if we pay off a few more million here and there.

Why not use the money from taxing big companies and use it towards something useful. For instance, how about opening up some mental health facilities.

Yes,. We need to get the debt under control, or pretty soon interest will consume a majority of the the budget and all the useful shit will be out the door...

 

[Rifler]

Nonsense. Sure some taxes are passed on, and yes, corps collect some taxes, so you're not completely off base. What you are missing - and probably hate - is the importance of targeted taxes and tax breaks for shaping and steering the market and the economy.

Don't shit yourself, as a part of operating a business, all taxes are passed on,.. and allowing the economy to be shaped and steered by the current political idiots is not a good idea.

 

[Dr. Phil Seuss]

Biden Budget Will Underscore Divide With Republicans and Trump​

The president’s fiscal 2025 budget proposal includes about $3 trillion in deficit reduction over a decade, largely from raising taxes on high earners and corporations.

President Biden on Monday will propose a budget packed with tax increases on corporations and high earners, new spending on social programs, and a wide range of efforts to combat high consumer costs like housing and college tuition.

The new spending and tax increases included in the fiscal 2025 budget stand almost no chance of becoming law this year, given that Republicans control the House and roundly oppose Mr. Biden’s fiscal agenda. Last week, House Republicans passed a budget proposal outlining their priorities, which are far afield from what Democrats have called for.

Instead, the document will serve as a draft of Mr. Biden’s policy platform as he seeks re-election in November, along with a series of contrasts intended to draw a distinction with his presumptive Republican opponent, former President Donald J. Trump.

Mr. Biden has sought to reclaim strength on economic issues with voters who have given him low marks amid rapid inflation. This budget aims to portray him as a champion of increased government aid for workers, parents, manufacturers, retirees and students, as well as the fight against climate change. Mr. Biden’s budget proposes to more than offset the cost of those priorities through increased taxes on large companies and the wealthy. The president has already begun trying to portray Mr. Trump as the opposite: a supporter of further tax cuts for corporations.

“A fair tax code is how we invest in things that make this country great: health care, education, defense and so much more,” Mr. Biden said on Thursday during his State of the Union address.
Later in the speech, in a call-and-response with Democrats in the chamber, Mr. Biden added: “Folks at home, does anybody really think the tax code is fair? Do you really think the wealthy and big corporations need another $2 trillion tax break? I sure don’t. I’m going to keep fighting like hell to make it fair.”

Polls show Americans are dissatisfied with Mr. Biden’s handling of the economy and favor Mr. Trump’s approach to economic issues. But Mr. Biden has been unwavering in his core economic-policy strategy, and the budget is not expected to deviate from that plan.

more here:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/us/politics/biden-budget-will-underscore-divide-with-republicans-and-trump.html

I’m all about the corporate rates raising revenues, but the problem I have is that their definition of “the rich” is not the same as mine. Any plan of this sort should aim to create stratification inside the 1%, it is a ruse to burden the upper middle class workhorses if rates top out in the hundreds of thousands. The person sitting at the 99th percentile is a lot closer to the financial profile of the median earner than they are to the .1%

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

The national debt will never be paid off. Is it really making much difference if we pay off a few more million here and there.

Why not use the money from taxing big companies and use it towards something useful. For instance, how about opening up some mental health facilities.

Your first comment was a bit hard to follow, so thanks for this. I agree.

I've been pointing out for years that we (apparently) have ZERO intention of paying off the national debt. It's not a D vs R thing. Nobody intends to pay off the debt.

Hardly anyone even wants to rein in the deficit. Rs claim to with their calls for spending cuts - but if you pay attention, they only want to cut spending so they can cut taxes. Just like Ds only want to cut spending (yes, on some things) to put that money to other projects.

My concern isn't the size of the debt but the size of the interest on the debt. Because that's like a speeding ticket. You have to pay it, but you don't get anything for it.

While the nations and others holding US debt are still willing to take our money, we should buy back our own debt. The nutty-sounding proposition to stamp out some trillion dollar coins might make sense in that context. Once we own our own debt, we can reduce the interest rate to zero.

God knows what that would do to the world economy* but the percentage of our national budget that goes to interest is hampering our ability to maintain current functions, much less undertake needed projects.

*Maybe not too much, since other debtor nations will follow suit - or will try to. Which is why we should do it first.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

The national debt will never be paid off. Is it really making much difference if we pay off a few more million here and there.

Why not use the money from taxing big companies and use it towards something useful. For instance, how about opening up some mental health facilities.

When the interest on the debt is more than all revenue collected what are you going to do ?

Sadly, there is always talk of raising taxes and reducing spending. It ends there at “Talk”. The spending is always done.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Don't shit yourself, as a part of operating a business, all taxes are passed on,.. and allowing the economy to be shaped and steered by the current political idiots is not a good idea.

Most, not all. Other factors weigh in. But even when all corporate taxes are passed on, so what? That doesn't make corporate taxes inherently bad.

Of course being able to shape and steer the economy is a good idea. So much of America's growth and greatness attests to that. But I won't disagree with you that the current crop of "political idiots" is scary.

I attribute most of that to the role of dark money in politics. When the people we elect are no longer working for us, the markets and the economy are less likely to be shaped for our benefit when our benefit conflicts with corporate or plutocratic preferences.

 

[Rifler]

Most, not all. Other factors weigh in. But even when all corporate taxes are passed on, so what? That doesn't make corporate taxes inherently bad.

Of course not,.. but it brings the lie to the idea that the middle class won't be paying these taxes,.. If you're a consumer, you will be paying these taxes.

 

[mustang_hawk]

Any raising of taxes on corporations is a defacto tax raise on everyone... do you really think corporations are just going to pay the extra money out of profit? A kindergartener knows this...

We don't have a revenue problem... we have a spending problem.

If you really believe that our only problem is spending, show me how much spending would have to be cut just to eliminate this years budget deficit. And where those cuts would come from. And those cuts would not pay one red cent on the national debt.

 

[coloradonoles]

Nonsense. Sure some taxes are passed on, and yes, corps collect some taxes, so you're not completely off base. What you are missing - and probably hate - is the importance of targeted taxes and tax breaks for shaping and steering the market and the economy.

So many things we value were encouraged and so many harms were discouraged by the power to tax.

Our 3rd graders want to scream "the power to tax is the power to destroy." It can be. But we have a government of laws and checks and balances. It's starting to look fragile, but it keeps the destroying bit pretty well in check.

Now you are moving the goalposts.

We aren't talking about a sin tax (i.e. cigarettes) or a tax break (i.e. EV car) Those can be highly effective. This is across the board corporate taxes.

But the system we are forced into using is, the party in control can see fit to the methods it wants to run the country. If you want to raise taxes on rich and corporation that money will be passed along to everyone else.

Our government is bloated, wasteful and badly run on nearly every level. That is the low hanging fruit we should be trying to pick. Not the top of the canopy items.

 

[luvmyhawks]

The national debt will never be paid off. Is it really making much difference if we pay off a few more million here and there.

Why not use the money from taxing big companies and use it towards something useful. For instance, how about opening up some mental health facilities.

There is zero discussion about a few million here or there. It is simply a discussion of a balanced budget which is 10+ years away. Do you agree that trying to get to a balanced budget in 10+ years would be a good idea?

As far as op goes. I am all for the increased taxes. I am not for all the increased spending.

 

[Finance85]

Budget estimates like this have been a pipe dream for a long, long time. We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem.

 

[mustang_hawk]

Budget estimates like this have been a pipe dream for a long, long time. We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem.

So again, how much has to be cut to balance this years budget and where does it come from. And how how much more would you cut to pay off some of the national debt?

 

[IAFB2021Champs]

There is zero discussion about a few million here or there. It is simply a discussion of a balanced budget which is 10+ years away. Do you agree that trying to get to a balanced budget in 10+ years would be a good idea?

As far as op goes. I am all for the increased taxes. I am not for all the increased spending.

Well typically in life you should try and balance your income and expenses. How the hell are you trillions of dollars in debt in the first place
So sure I guess they should come up with a budget. Someone along the way will f it all up and nothing will be getting paid off anyway. So why not use that tax money to support some things that are needed in life.

perhaps another place to start besides taxing businesses is by getting rid of some of the worthless employees our government employs and take away their free healthcare.

 

[coloradonoles]

If you really believe that our only problem is spending, show me how much spending would have to be cut just to eliminate this years budget deficit. And where those cuts would come from. And those cuts would not pay one red cent on the national debt.

I never said it was our only problem... but it is by far the biggest.

EVERY budget should be based on revenue and spending. There should be a Constitutional Amendment that we cannot spend one dime more than we make. Hard choices are going to have to be made. And yes taxes may need to go up. But until you solve the spending problem you just keep incentivizing taking more rather than spending more wisely.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Now you are moving the goalposts.

We aren't talking about a sin tax (i.e. cigarettes) or a tax break (i.e. EV car) this is across the board corporate taxes. Those can be highly effective.

But the system we are forced into using is, the party in control can see fit to the methods it wants to run the country. If you want to raise taxes on rich and corporation that money will be passed along to everyone else.

Our government is bloated, wasteful and badly run on nearly every level. That is the low hanging fruit we should be trying to pick. Not the top of the canopy items.

If you only want to look at across-the-board corporate tax changes, and if you only look at corporations that make products, you have a good point.

Then the most powerful argument for those tax hikes is revenue. Followed by ease of tax collection. Not because corporate taxes are easy, but because they are usually done by pros and the number of corps is more manageable than the total number of filers. Especially for an underfunded IRS.

What about corporations that don't make traditional products?? How does FOX News pass along increased corporate taxes to its viewers? It can probably pass them along to advertisers, but viewers? Not all corporate taxes get passed along to consumers.

What about the rich? While corporate taxes may be passed along, how do the rich pass along their increased taxes?

 

[Rifler]

What about corporations that don't make traditional products?? How does FOX News pass along increased corporate taxes to its viewers? It can probably pass them along to advertisers, but viewers? Not all corporate taxes get passed along to consumers.

Expand on that just a bit,.. Where do you think advertisers go to cover their increased costs?,.. Consumers eventually foot the bill for everything...

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Budget estimates like this have been a pipe dream for a long, long time. We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem.

How can you say that? Seems obvious to me that we have both:

--We aren't paying the bills without borrowing (revenue problem); and

--We are paying for things we shouldn't be paying for (spending problem).

What do you see differently?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Expand on that just a bit,.. Where do you think advertisers go to cover their increased costs?,.. Consumers eventually foot the bill for everything...

Fair enough, up to a point. But we are fundamentally a service and speculation economy. So your point is valid enough for advertisers of "real" products, but the ability to pass along taxes is diluted when they aren't. I confess I'm not entirely sure how that plays out, but I am sure it's not so simple.

We haven't been talking about the other advantage of corporate taxes. When you do have that tax trickle down to the consumer, the consumer has the choice to pay it or not by whether he buys that product. When, instead, that tax is directly on the consumer's income, he does not have that choice. Frankly, I've always thought that part of the argument would appeal to conservatives.

 

[mustang_hawk]

I never said it was our only problem... but it is by far the biggest.

EVERY budget should be based on revenue and spending. There should be a Constitutional Amendment that we cannot spend one dime more than we make. Hard choices are going to have to be made. And yes taxes may need to go up. But until you solve the spending problem you just keep incentivizing taking more rather than spending more wisely.

I totally agree with you that the Federal Government should only be able to spend what it receives in revenues. But you did say that we don’t have a revenue problem and that can’t be denied.

Just for perspective, set aside social security, Medicare and defense spending. I don’t think that the rest of the money they spend on everything else would come close to eliminating just the current years budget deficit. Spending cuts and revenue increases have to happen at the same time or the revenue increases won’t happen at all.

 

[Finance85]

So again, how much has to be cut to balance this years budget and where does it come from. And how how much more would you cut to pay off some of the national debt?

How did we survive on the budget from 2019? I'm sure we could do that again. I'd start with the military. Then I'd go after grants to businesses that apparently can't survive on their own. I'd cut federal departments other than critical functions back to 2019 levels.

 

[Rifler]

We haven't been talking about the other advantage of corporate taxes. When you do have that tax trickle down to the consumer, the consumer has the choice to pay it or not by whether he buys that product. When, instead, that tax is directly on the consumer's income, he does not have that choice. Frankly, I've always thought that part of the argument would appeal to conservatives.

Sorry,.. Having the federal government destroy an otherwise viable business model via taxes doesn't appeal to me...

 

[Rifler]

How did we survive on the budget from 2019? I'm sure we could do that again. I'd start with the military. Then I'd go after grants to businesses that apparently can't survive on their own. I'd cut federal departments other than critical functions back to 2019 levels.

I'd actually slash absolutely everything by 2-3%,.. Any program, department or individual can accept that,.. Equal pain across the board eliminates complainers...

 

[Urohawk]

Taxing the rich seems smart. We are at the greatest divide in the wealth gap.

 

[BelemNole]

You'll notice this gets ignored.

 

[Rifler]

You'll notice this gets ignored.

Because after everything was factored in nobody paid the highest marginal rate back then,.. nobody.

 

[BelemNole]

Because after everything was factored in nobody paid the highest marginal rate back then,.. nobody.

And nobody pays it now. But they'd pay more if it was higher.

 

[Finance85]

I'd actually slash absolutely everything by 2-3%,.. Any program, department or individual can accept that,.. Equal pain across the board eliminates complainers...

There are critical functions that are necessary for safety, like the FAA, FDA, Department of Agriculture, ICE, CBP, and a few others. The mission of the military needs to be scaled back dramatically. We need to cut foreign aid to the bone until we aren't having to borrow money to fund it. We're not far from having $1T in debt service.

Oh yeah, if you want to kill the economy, raise corporate taxes from 21% to 28% and see what happens.

Biden told a few lies about the income taxes billionaires pay. Wealth isn't income. People living off capital gains pay at least 20% in taxes. Unrealized capital gains aren't income, no matter how much the White House wishes they were.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...-billionaires-pay-8-percent-taxes-not-really/

If Biden tells a lie enough times, he thinks people will believe him, and he's apparently right about that. If SCOTUS rules that unrealized gains aren't legal, perhaps Biden will stop this nonsense. Each and every person having a 401K invested in equities should hope SCOTUS rules that way.

 

[Rifler]

And it's always useful to tag someone outside the favored audience as a boogie man to fund these things,.. So sure, go after the "rich", whatever the definition of that is...

 

[coloradonoles]

You'll notice this gets ignored.

It won't be ignored and it isn't even accurate.

The top 1% own about 30%
The top 10% own about 66%
The top 50% own about 97%

And the best part is it's only about 5% worse than it was in 1989... 35 years ago... when the top 50% owned 96.5%

I doubt you'll open me.

 

[mustang_hawk]

How did we survive on the budget from 2019? I'm sure we could do that again. I'd start with the military. Then I'd go after grants to businesses that apparently can't survive on their own. I'd cut federal departments other than critical functions back to 2019 levels.

My point is if you set SS, Medicare and defense aside, will the rest of total federal spending be as much as a single year’s budget deficit? Nibbling 2-3% here or 10% there will never eliminate a single year’s deficit, let alone paying down anything on the national debt.