POLL: California Water Restrictions

[What Would Jesus Do?]

[from email news alert]

Gov. Jerry Brown has imposed mandatory water restrictions for the first
time on California residents, businesses and farms, ordering cities and
towns to reduce usage by 25%.



NASA said in December it would take about 11 trillion gallons of rain
for California to recover. Groundwater is at its lowest level in 65
years, according to NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena. The
state's two largest river basins, the Sacramento and San Joaquin, have
lost 4 trillion gallons of water each year since 2011, according to
satellite data analysis by the JPL.

 

[lucas80]

The snowpack in the Sierra Nevada's is at it's lowest point in decades. It should be at it's yearly peak this time of year.
This will affect every American that insists upon fresh salad fixin's and fresh fruit year round. Even if you think it'll just be grown somewhere else and flown in you'll be paying more.

 

[TJ8869]

Maybe the government should figure out a cost-effective way to desalinate seawater. If I'm not mistaken there is a fairly large ocean near California.

 

[lucas80]

Originally posted by TJ8869:
Maybe the government should figure out a cost-effective way to desalinate seawater. If I'm not mistaken there is a fairly large ocean near California.

Potable water isn't the issue. Industrial and farming uses up the vast majority of California's water. To desalinate enough water for those uses would be cost prohibitive. They've been working on solutions for decades and they aren't even close. It's just too energy intensive to desalinate water to do it on a massive scale.

 

[LuteHawk]

Gov. Jerry Brown is setting a great example,
since he has not showered since Woodstock.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Originally posted by lucas80:

Originally posted by TJ8869:
Maybe the government should figure out a cost-effective way to desalinate seawater. If I'm not mistaken there is a fairly large ocean near California.

Potable water isn't the issue. Industrial and farming uses up the vast majority of California's water. To desalinate enough water for those uses would be cost prohibitive. They've been working on solutions for decades and they aren't even close. It's just too energy intensive to desalinate water to do it on a massive scale.

So here's a related question. There are plenty of crops being grown in CA that require more water than CA can manage. One obvious solution is to switch to less water-intensive crops. But who pays? Should the almond farmer just take the hit? Should law changes driven by the very real water crisis just drive him into bankruptcy? Or should the taxpayer bail him out? Or what?

 

[iCRUNCH]

maybe building major cities in deserts wasn't such a bright idea

 

[bagdropper]

Originally posted by iCRUNCH:


maybe building major cities in deserts wasn't such a bright idea

Kinda what I'm thinking as well. I don't care how nice it is. No water means no water.

Maybe if (NO) didn't have a city that big below sea level, hurricanes wouldn't be a potential issue. Same thing really is happening here.


Let's see...

1) you build a monstrously populated state on top of one of the most active fault lines on earth
2) where there's no expandable water supply
3) you allow the size of your cities to expand into regions ripe for forest fires every season
4) you fail planning for "feasible infrastructure capabilities" the state has naturally over the last century and a half

What's the worst that could happen?

Hmmm. Devastating earthquakes in over-populated areas. Devastating forest fires. Oh yeah...apparently, no water.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Originally posted by iCRUNCH:

maybe building major cities in deserts wasn't such a bright idea

But this is like the mortgage crisis. People were saying "maybe people shouldn't be buying more house than they can afford."

Yet in the context when those decisions were made - whether buying a house or building a city - there didn't seem to be a problem. House prices weren't going to crash and the buyers had good jobs. There was plenty of water.

Yet house prices did go down. And people lost those good jobs. And the water dried up.

Now if you are talking about Las Vegas, you may have a point. But the CA problem wasn't that easy to see - especially when the voices warning about climate change and such are being shouted down.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Only 7 votes but it's interesting (and reassuring) that everyone so far seems to think this is an appropriate way for government to behave.

 

[RedPomPoms]

If we start charging a fair market rate for water, we could solve this.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[ANYCHawk]

Ok, seriously is there not the largest body of water in the world that touches the entire state?

 

[naturalmwa]

Originally posted by TJ8869:
Maybe the government should figure out a cost-effective way to desalinate seawater. If I'm not mistaken there is a fairly large ocean near California.

I like your instincts, I too think the government should invest more in science and technology development to support American industry.

 

[22*43*51]

Originally posted by What Would Jesus Do?:

But the CA problem wasn't that easy to see - especially when the voices warning about climate change and such are being shouted down.

The CA issue has nothing to do with Climate Change Al. It is part of the normal cycle in that region.

"The longest droughts of the 20th century, what Californians think of as severe, occurred from 1987 to 1992 and from 1928 to 1934. Both, Stine said, are minor compared to the ancient droughts of 850 to 1090 and 1140 to 1320.

Modern megadrought



What would happen if the current drought continued for another 10 years or more?



Without question, longtime water experts say, farmers would bear the brunt. Cities would suffer but adapt.



The reason: Although many Californians think that population growth is the main driver of water demand statewide, it actually is agriculture. In an average year, farmers use 80 percent of the water consumed by people and businesses -- 34 million of 43 million acre-feet diverted from rivers, lakes and groundwater, according to the state Department of Water Resources."


Don't be a Science Denier

 

[KennyPowers_96]

Originally posted by RedPomPoms:
If we start charging a fair market rate for water, we could solve this.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Who's "we"?

Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[YellowSnow51]

Why wouldn't enacting water restrictions during an historic drought not be something for the government to do?

 

[LunchBox50]

Originally posted by What Would Jesus Do?:

Originally posted by iCRUNCH:

maybe building major cities in deserts wasn't such a bright idea

But this is like the mortgage crisis. People were saying "maybe people shouldn't be buying more house than they can afford."

Yet in the context when those decisions were made - whether buying a house or building a city - there didn't seem to be a problem. House prices weren't going to crash and the buyers had good jobs. There was plenty of water.

Yet house prices did go down. And people lost those good jobs. And the water dried up.

Now if you are talking about Las Vegas, you may have a point. But the CA problem wasn't that easy to see - especially when the voices warning about climate change and such are being shouted down.

Was just going to say this -- the Las Vegas analogy is on the money, LA not so much.

 

[INXS83]

This is an extreme problem and action was needed. I begrudgingly agree that Jerry & CA need to act. Probably should have years ago.

Get ready to pay more for fruits, veggies and nuts at the grocery store as CA dominates the nation in agricultural production of these vital food staples.

Snow-pack in the mountains that feed their river basins was only 5% of normal last winter.

Why do so many people live in this semi-arid region that sits on the San Andreas Fault? The practical answer is the agreeable climate.

 

[LuteHawk]

This will not affect the San Diego Yacht Club.
They have always served good meals and
their members will continue to invite people
like me to enjoy the hospitality.

 

[kwik44]

Kind of OT, but I know 5 people who moved out of Iowa for the sun and beaches of CA.

They were back home in less than two years.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[hawkitd]

Originally posted by TJ8869:
Maybe the government should figure out a cost-effective way to desalinate seawater. If I'm not mistaken there is a fairly large ocean near California.

bolded, underlined part =

TJ, government can't get out of a wet paper bag. It will be up to the private sector but at this point, the economics are against desalination efforts. Future technologies will probably make economic/financial sense eventually.

 

[aflachawk]

Originally posted by What W...us Do?:

Originally posted by iCRUNCH:

maybe building major cities in deserts wasn't such a bright idea

But this is like the mortgage crisis.  People were saying "maybe people shouldn't be buying more house than they can afford." 

Yet in the context when those decisions were made - whether buying a house or building a city - there didn't seem to be a problem.  House prices weren't going to crash and the buyers had good jobs.  There was plenty of water.

Yet house prices did go down.  And people lost those good jobs.  And the water dried up. 

Now if you are talking about Las Vegas, you may have a point.  But the CA problem wasn't that easy to see - especially when the voices warning about climate change and such are being shouted down.

One thing you have conveniently ignored in your mortgage example was the federal government caused all that first changing the rules to allow almost no or in many cases nothing down. Stopped verifying data from people who were looking for a loan, then forcing banks to take on bad mortgages which they promptly sold at a loss to the people who bundled them together in derivatives to get them off their books. It would have better not to create the problem in the first place
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[HawkEngineer]

If only the Chicago Deep Tunnel projects hadn't been such a cluster we could try to create a system of channels to be activated in times of heavy rain and divert it to other areas that needed it. Obviously a HUGE cost with all kinds of hurdles but its cool to think about. Lots of snow in the Midwest and then big rains? Start diverting it west when we hit certain thresholds. Minimize the impact of floods and get water where we need it.

Of course when the midwest has a drought then that idea goes out the window

 

[naturalmwa]

Originally posted by HawkEngineer:
If only the Chicago Deep Tunnel projects hadn't been such a cluster we could try to create a system of channels to be activated in times of heavy rain and divert it to other areas that needed it. Obviously a HUGE cost with all kinds of hurdles but its cool to think about. Lots of snow in the Midwest and then big rains? Start diverting it west when we hit certain thresholds. Minimize the impact of floods and get water where we need it.

Of course when the midwest has a drought then that idea goes out the window

Some marketing guru should rebrand the Keystone pipeline as the Aqua Spring pipeline and get the CA delegation in congress to vote for it.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Originally posted by 22*43*51:

Originally posted by What Would Jesus Do?:

But the CA problem wasn't that easy to see - especially when the voices warning about climate change and such are being shouted down.

The CA issue has nothing to do with Climate Change Al. It is part of the normal cycle in that region.

"The longest droughts of the 20th century, what Californians think of as severe, occurred from 1987 to 1992 and from 1928 to 1934. Both, Stine said, are minor compared to the ancient droughts of 850 to 1090 and 1140 to 1320.

Modern megadrought


What would happen if the current drought continued for another 10 years or more?


Without question, longtime water experts say, farmers would bear the brunt. Cities would suffer but adapt.


The reason: Although many Californians think that population growth is the main driver of water demand statewide, it actually is agriculture. In an average year, farmers use 80 percent of the water consumed by people and businesses -- 34 million of 43 million acre-feet diverted from rivers, lakes and groundwater, according to the state Department of Water Resources."


Don't be a Science Denier

Good grief.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by HawkEngineer:
If only the Chicago Deep Tunnel projects hadn't been such a cluster we could try to create a system of channels to be activated in times of heavy rain and divert it to other areas that needed it. Obviously a HUGE cost with all kinds of hurdles but its cool to think about. Lots of snow in the Midwest and then big rains? Start diverting it west when we hit certain thresholds. Minimize the impact of floods and get water where we need it.

Of course when the midwest has a drought then that idea goes out the window

Some marketing guru should rebrand the Keystone pipeline as the Aqua Spring pipeline and get the CA delegation in congress to vote for it.

I'm already on record saying I would support the pipeline if it would transport beer.

 

[Lone Clone]

Well, since Brown was among those who caused the problem, I don't know that I'd trust him to fix it.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Originally posted by Lone Clone:
Well, since Brown was among those who caused the problem, I don't know that I'd trust him to fix it.

??

 

[Lone Clone]

Originally posted by What Would Jesus Do?:

Originally posted by Lone Clone:
Well, since Brown was among those who caused the problem, I don't know that I'd trust him to fix it.

??

Go back to the 1970s and see who blocked state and federal water projects back in the day. Brown and his fellow lefties.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Originally posted by Lone Clone:

Originally posted by What Would Jesus Do?:

Originally posted by Lone Clone:
Well, since Brown was among those who caused the problem, I don't know that I'd trust him to fix it.

??

Go back to the 1970s and see who blocked state and federal water projects back in the day. Brown and his fellow lefties.

What were the arguments?

 

[Lone Clone]

Originally posted by What Would Jesus Do?:

Originally posted by Lone Clone:

Originally posted by What Would Jesus Do?:

Originally posted by Lone Clone:
Well, since Brown was among those who caused the problem, I don't know that I'd trust him to fix it.

??

Go back to the 1970s and see who blocked state and federal water projects back in the day. Brown and his fellow lefties.

What were the arguments?

The usual left-wing arguments. Basically, that instead of providing more of what was needed to sustain a lifestyle, it was necessary to change the lifestyle. Same argument the AGW fanatics are using now: If energy is short, the answer is not to provide more energy, but to punish ourselves for wanting it.

One perspective