(Poll) How many coronavirus vaccines did you get?

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Pelosi was stating that she would not take a vaccine where Trump bypassed testing processes to rush it to market (overruling FDA oversight).

Which would have been a smart bet had that happened.

That sounds right. I did a little googling and found this in an AP article:

Should they attack Trump’s vaccine claims too aggressively, Democrats risk further undermining public confidence in a possible lifesaving medicine while looking as though they are rooting against a potential cure. But if they don’t push back, it makes it easier for Trump to use the real or imagined prospect of a vaccine to boost his reelection campaign.​

​

Washington Gov. Jay Inslee demonstrated the Democrats’ balancing act on Friday when asked whether he would be willing to take a vaccine released by the administration before the election.​

​

“If all the protocols had been followed and the evidence is in, of course, I’d follow science. It doesn’t matter when it happens,” Inslee told The Associated Press. “But I would have to look at the science, not Donald Trump. There isn’t one single thing I would ever trust from Donald Trump to be true.”​

Note the Dems are credited with not wanting to undermine confidence in good medical practices. That's something totally absent from the Rs' attacks on science and vaccines.

[Disclaimer: I made a token donation to Inslee's campaign in 2020.]

Democrats face quandary on vaccine support as election nears

NEW YORK (AP) — President Donald Trump is escalating his promise for a coronavirus vaccine before Election Day.

apnews.com

 

[Joes Place]

Yeah, it's disappointing that we couldn't avoid the politicization long enough to at least try to achieve herd immunity.

FUNFACT: >100 years after H1N1 flu showed up in human populations, there is still no "herd immunity".

 

[BrianNole777]

FUNFACT: >100 years after H1N1 flu showed up in human populations, there is still no "herd immunity".

20% of HROT or GRIOT or whatever has received 0 covid vaccines.

Yikes.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

FUNFACT: >100 years after H1N1 flu showed up in human populations, there is still no "herd immunity".

Was an effort made? I'm not aware of it if there was.

If something sticks around a long time, would that suggest it's a bad candidate for herd immunity? We have eradicated a few things with new vaccines, but not things like this, I don't think.

In the case of SARS-CoV-2 we had a relatively new virus of unknown mutagenicity and some very effective vaccines. Thinking we might achieve herd immunity between vaccines and infections might have turned out to be wrong but it wasn't an unreasonable quest. Unfortunately we stumbled, mostly thanks to self-inflicted wounds.

In the end it might have been a pipe dream, but what if we had approved other vaccines (like Novavax), and what if we had licensed production all around the world instead of protecting the profits of Pfizer and Moderna, and what if we hadn't politicized it? What happens if we do that before Omicron? After Omicron the R0 was probably too high, but before that, who knows? Maybe we could have gotten it done during Delta. Or not. IMO, it's an inexcusable shame that we didn't really try.

 

[EasyHawk]

20% of HROT or GRIOT or whatever has received 0 covid vaccines.

Yikes.

And 45% had 0 or only the initial first dose or the two doses, or the J&J 3 years ago plus the first booster. Gets a little murky since the J&J was a single dose vs 2 doses for others. From my experience, that might be high if there was a way to really know nationally. Very few people at work got anything after the first round.

 

[BrianNole777]

And 45% had 0 or only the initial first dose or the two doses, or the J&J 3 years ago plus the first booster. Gets a little murky since the J&J was a single dose vs 2 doses for others. From my experience, that might be high if there was a way to really know nationally. Very few people at work got anything after the first round.

Yep.

America is an anti-vaxxer country.

 

[Joes Place]

Was an effort made? I'm not aware of it if there was.

Huh?

We've been giving people flu vaccines for something like 40 years now....

 

[Joes Place]

In the end it might have been a pipe dream, but what if we had approved other vaccines (like Novavax), and what if we had licensed production all around the world instead of protecting the profits of Pfizer and Moderna, and what if we hadn't politicized it? What happens if we do that before Omicron? After Omicron the R0 was probably too high, but before that, who knows? Maybe we could have gotten it done during Delta. Or not. IMO, it's an inexcusable shame that we didn't really try.

Uh.....Covid is a virus like flu; it has multiple other animal/mammalian reservoirs to mutate in.

Making a one-size-fits-all vaccine will not be an easy undertaking. However, newer options to directly stimulate immunity in nasal mucous membranes will have the best chances (not as much for flu, as that virus can transmit via fomites, so we'd need immunity in other mucous membrane entry points, like eye ducts, etc)

 

[BrianNole777]

No, I don't remember that. Did that actually happen? Is there context?

You know who is awesome?

Dr. Fauci.

He's absolutely brilliant. He graduated FIRST in his class at Cornell medical school.

My Uncle's wife worked at NIH in the 80's and attended meetings with him. She said he would listen to everyone, even lower level employees.

She said he could have made millions of dollars in private industry but chose public service.

He's the best.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Huh?

We've been giving people flu vaccines for something like 40 years now....

Good grief. Giving vaccines is not the same thing as trying to achieve herd immunity. You know better than that - or at least I would have bet that you did before your comment.

 

[Joes Place]

Good grief. Giving vaccines is not the same thing as trying to achieve herd immunity.

Huh?

Full herd immunity for viruses that continually mutate is not possible; but with updated vaccination boosts, you can increase the levels of immunity within your populations to limit the spread, substantially, thru the winter season.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Huh?

Full herd immunity for viruses that continually mutate is not possible; but with updated vaccination boosts, you can increase the levels of immunity within your populations to limit the spread, substantially, thru the winter season.

Helpful for those who didn't know, but not responsive to the debate between us.

I suggested we didn't try to achieve herd immunity to H1N1. You replied that we have been using vaccines for 40 years, implying that we did try to achieve herd immunity. I said that achieving herd immunity requires more than just having vaccines.

 

[Bro D]

OP creates poll just to lecture people 🤣

 

[Joes Place]

Helpful for those who didn't know, but not responsive to the debate between us.

I suggested we didn't try to achieve herd immunity to H1N1.

I replied that "herd immunity" to H1N1 was never going to happen, vaccines or not.

Just like Covid, because BOTH viruses have dozens of other mammalian reservoirs to mutate in and come back to infect humans. Comparing these to "static" viruses like measles or smallpox is just silly. Go read up on it if you want to learn something from an actual virologist/immunologist.

 

[noleclone2]

Four. Everything with the boosters seemed fine maybe slightly sore arm. I have had no other sidee effects or klkdjzihshsjkkskakajahgzggzggsgzhsbjakaookxbsjsjaytTttttttttttttttttggghmmlllllllllllllllllllllllll

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I replied that "herd immunity" to H1N1 was never going to happen, vaccines or not.

I would have said much the same, if asked. But I was responding to your post, and the reasons why herd immunity can be difficult to achieve was not the topic of discussion.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Four. Everything with the boosters seemed fine maybe slightly sore arm. I have had no other sidee effects or klkdjzihshsjkkskakajahgzggzggsgzhsbjakaookxbsjsjaytTttttttttttttttttggghmmlllllllllllllllllllllllll

LOL.

Or maybe your cat walked across your keyboard just before you posted.

 

[Pinehawk]

I replied that "herd immunity" to H1N1 was never going to happen, vaccines or not.

Just like Covid, because BOTH viruses have dozens of other mammalian reservoirs to mutate in and come back to infect humans. Comparing these to "static" viruses like measles or smallpox is just silly. Go read up on it if you want to learn something from an actual virologist/immunologist.

lol, you fraud.
We were 100% told that we could achieve herd immunity to Covid. With distancing and masking even.
Now, you try to claim we never could reach herd immunity. Yeah, we know. We tried to tell you and others years ago. But, you wouldn’t listen.

 

[Joes Place]

I would have said much the same, if asked. But I was responding to your post, and the reasons why herd immunity can be difficult to achieve was not the topic of discussion.

Someone else must have hacked your account and posted this, then:

Yeah, it's disappointing that we couldn't avoid the politicization long enough to at least try to achieve herd immunity.

 

[Joes Place]

We were 100% told that we could achieve herd immunity to Covid.

No; we were not. And FWIW, we DO have "herd immunity" to original Covid, which no longer exists.

SOME thought we might; that was long before we understood that Covid mutated FASTER than flu, and had multiple other animals it could infect and mutate in.

This is quite literally how science works - we learn about a new virus over time.

 

[Joes Place]

We tried to tell you and others years ago

You didn't try to tell anyone shit.

Updated vaccines for Covid are no different than flu vaccines. Only Covid is a far more dangerous virus, still.

 

[HawkinK.C.1]

I got one early on when it was being suggested that I was murdering old people and ruining mankind's chances for herd immunity if I didn't.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

lol, you fraud.
We were 100% told that we could achieve herd immunity to Covid. With distancing and masking even.

That was a hope, not a promise.

In retrospect it was probably a pipe dream to think we could have stamped out COVID in the alpha or delta phases, even if we had had the vaccines faster and were much more aggressive about the other best practices. But we didn't know that then.

Even knowing what we know now about the mutagenicity of the virus and the transmissibility of subsequent strains, a concerted national effort to achieve herd immunity wasn't 100% doomed to failure, had we gone all in. But we didn't, so we'll never know for certain.

And, let's be clear . . . I we had a chance to achieve herd immunity, that was absolutely worth trying. Even if we had failed to achieve herd immunity, we would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives.

Recall that over half a million Americans died in the first year of the pandemic, with deaths surpassing 4 thousand a day at their peak.

 

[Pinehawk]

No; we were not. And FWIW, we DO have "herd immunity" to original Covid, which no longer exists.

SOME thought we might; that was long before we understood that Covid mutated FASTER than flu, and had multiple other animals it could infect and mutate in.

I don't think it'll be that long.

Outdoor activities in summer were far less effective at transmission. We should hit herd immunity by late spring w/ vaccines.

Re-infection certainly can be a "thing", but the general understanding is that with a previously tuned/tweaked immune system, the severe outcomes would be much more like flu.

I do agree, post winter and outdoors, this will get better this summer, and we should hit herd immunity by fall, provided vaccine distribution continues to accelerate. Within 2 months, per the nonsense printed in the WSJ? I doubt it. I've run their numbers, and they simply don't add up.

Best case right now, is we could be halfway to herd immunity by April. I think we'll have enough immunity in at-risk populations to avoid the risks of overrun hospitals this Spring. But that won't eliminate the risks of serious cases for those who don't know they are at-risk. And it makes sense for all of us to continue masking and moderately distancing in the meantime. The more successful we are, the more likely we will have completely "normal" fall sports in 2021.

And herd immunity leads to eradication.

I said masks are not going to reliably protect vulnerable populations.

Herd immunity will.

 

[Joes Place]

That was a hope, not a promise.

Indeed.

Back when they presumed it would be a far more static virus, mutating much slower and incrementally than flu.
Instead, Covid mutates at rates up to 5x faster than flu does. Making it a much more challenging virus to track and develop up-to-date vaccines for.

 

[Joes Place]

And every one of us, including @Pinehawk, has herd immunity to the original Covid virus.

 

[MichaelKeller99]

People in the groups that are more susceptible to severe reactions to Covid.

Then the LAST thing they should be doing is getting repeatedly injected with an mRNA jab because it essentially turns the immune system off.

But to each their own.

 

[Jan Itor]

Then the LAST thing they should be doing is getting repeatedly injected with an mRNA jab because it essentially turns the immune system off.

But to each their own.

JFC

 

[warriors dad]

Never had a flu shot or any other kinda shot. And ive never missed a day of work in my life and im 55 years old! For those of you that want to get one, good for you but nobody needs to preach to me about getting one either. As I say to each his own. Just like in politics if your a D or a R it doesnt matter to me as long as you vote!

 

[MichaelKeller99]

JFC

How long did it take you to come up with that witty response?

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.adg7327

Repeated doses of mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 result in increased proportions of anti-spike antibodies of the IgG4 subclass, which are known to neutralize well and to form mixed immune complexes with IgG1 but, in a pure form, might be less effective than IgG1 or IgG3 antibodies in facilitating opsonization by phagocytes, complement fixation, and NK cell–dependent elimination of infected cells; on the basis of the results of the studies discussed here and other theoretical considerations, future clinical studies need to evaluate the effectiveness of temporal spreading out of mRNA vaccine boosts—possibly no more than once a year.

 

[Joes Place]

How long did it take you to come up with that witty response?

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.adg7327

Repeated doses of mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 result in increased proportions of anti-spike antibodies of the IgG4 subclass, which are known to neutralize well and to form mixed immune complexes with IgG1 but, in a pure form, might be less effective than IgG1 or IgG3 antibodies in facilitating opsonization by phagocytes, complement fixation, and NK cell–dependent elimination of infected cells; on the basis of the results of the studies discussed here and other theoretical considerations, future clinical studies need to evaluate the effectiveness of temporal spreading out of mRNA vaccine boosts—possibly no more than once a year.

#Doesn'tClaimWhatYouThinkItClaims

 

[Joes Place]

How long did it take you to come up with that witty response?

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.adg7327

Repeated doses of mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 result in increased proportions of anti-spike antibodies of the IgG4 subclass, which are known to neutralize well and to form mixed immune complexes with IgG1 but, in a pure form, might be less effective than IgG1 or IgG3 antibodies in facilitating opsonization by phagocytes, complement fixation, and NK cell–dependent elimination of infected cells; on the basis of the results of the studies discussed here and other theoretical considerations, future clinical studies need to evaluate the effectiveness of temporal spreading out of mRNA vaccine boosts—possibly no more than once a year.

Innumerable large studies from across the world have established that mRNA and adenoviral coronavirus disease 2019 vaccines protect immunized participants in a major way from hospitalization and severe disease,


...
IgG4 antibodies constitute a relatively small proportion of total anti-spike IgG after vaccination, will also likely be of higher affinity because they emerge late, and can form mixed immune complexes with IgG1; in practical terms, they are unlikely to compromise immunity in vaccinated patients at this time.

 

[seminole97]

Thank God I'm still breathing.

I don’t understand this sentiment from Believers when Heaven is supposed to be the bestest thing ever.

 

[BrianNole777]

I don’t understand this sentiment from Believers when Heaven is supposed to be the bestest thing ever.

I don't want to enter eternity yet.

 

[BrianNole777]

25% of GRIOT got 0 covid vaccines. Wow!

One person got 7...my role model.

 

[Jan Itor]

How long did it take you to come up with that witty response?

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.adg7327

Repeated doses of mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 result in increased proportions of anti-spike antibodies of the IgG4 subclass, which are known to neutralize well and to form mixed immune complexes with IgG1 but, in a pure form, might be less effective than IgG1 or IgG3 antibodies in facilitating opsonization by phagocytes, complement fixation, and NK cell–dependent elimination of infected cells; on the basis of the results of the studies discussed here and other theoretical considerations, future clinical studies need to evaluate the effectiveness of temporal spreading out of mRNA vaccine boosts—possibly no more than once a year.

You know exactly how long it took. There are timestamps on each post.

 

[SiouxCyty]

I got 6 covid vaccines!

5 Moderna

1 Pfizer

No side effects except a sore arm.

Can anyone here beat my record?!

I received all but this last one. No side effects at all. No sore arm.

 

[Joes Place]

You know exactly how long it took. There are timestamps on each post.

And his "followup" was posting a journal article that completely undermines his "hypothesis", just because it makes generalized statements he thinks support him.

But the actual article states precisely the opposite.

 

[Jan Itor]

How long did it take you to come up with that witty response?

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.adg7327

Repeated doses of mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 result in increased proportions of anti-spike antibodies of the IgG4 subclass, which are known to neutralize well and to form mixed immune complexes with IgG1 but, in a pure form, might be less effective than IgG1 or IgG3 antibodies in facilitating opsonization by phagocytes, complement fixation, and NK cell–dependent elimination of infected cells; on the basis of the results of the studies discussed here and other theoretical considerations, future clinical studies need to evaluate the effectiveness of temporal spreading out of mRNA vaccine boosts—possibly no more than once a year.

Notice the last sentence about future clinical trials needed on effectiveness of spreading out of mRNA boosts possibly no more that once a year.

Currently, boosters are recommended once a year.

 

[Joes Place]

Notice the last sentence about future clinical trials needed on effectiveness of spreading out of mRNA boosts possibly no more that once a year.

Currently, boosters are recommended once a year.

Shocking.

Exactly how we use flu vaccines, to boost immunity during the winter months that the virus tends to propagate most effectively.