Pre-seeds dragging way behind
- Thread starter texas twister
- Start date
correct.
all the money in the world.
they didn't have to drop wrestling to add baseball.
they could have added a women's sport. i'm sorry but your excuse is bs.
WRESTLING in general, is NOT bringing in fans and or generating interest PERIOD!!! Wade Schalles is constantly talking about this and at least trying to come up with ideas to help the sport.
Outside of IOWA which brings in 15K+ to home meets, there is not much else. Right now you have F*** st with there POS bandwagon fans doing OK because they are winning. Once knocked off that high purch, they won't be able to draw flies again!!!
It is really sad to see some very good programs in some large universities who can't even fill a small gym!!! The POS ncaa with their brainless NIL decision will most likely destroy wrestling and many other sports that have the same problem!!!
It gives the horses asses in charge a perfect reason to start cutting programs!
Outside of IOWA which brings in 15K+ to home meets, there is not much else. Right now you have F*** st with there POS bandwagon fans doing OK because they are winning. Once knocked off that high purch, they won't be able to draw flies again!!!
It is really sad to see some very good programs in some large universities who can't even fill a small gym!!! The POS ncaa with their brainless NIL decision will most likely destroy wrestling and many other sports that have the same problem!!!
It gives the horses asses in charge a perfect reason to start cutting programs!
NIL is not the problem. Stop blaming the athletes for a system that already existed. it's no different than blaming Title IX for the loss of wrestling programs. Its about the greed of the ADs/board of trustees of the institution.
Look at a school like Stanford. They were going to cut sports, for what? Literally shitz and giggles and to hold their alumni hostage. (I think they knew damn well the funds would get raised)
UHHHH, I believe you are having a debate with yourself!?!?!? 1) NOT blaming the athletes 2) did NOT already exist till very recently!!! 3) POS title IX IS a perfect example of what I am talking about!!!! 4) RE-read what I wrote- it gives the POS people in-charge yet another reason!!!
IF there is lack of interest in a sport, you have very few fans, it costs the skool $$$$, you can't even put a remotely competitive team out etc...... You are just looking for trouble!!!!
🙄
“Your excuse”…
Not my excuse, I was just restating the excuse Oregon laid out.
Of course they could have added a women’s sport but everyone knows that would take away from football funds.
Knight’s pet project was to get baseball back to Oregon, wrestling was the sacrificial lamb.
Not sure why you are arguing with me, when you at the same time are agreeing with me.
Maybe another late night I guess.
you're back to money being an issue after saying money was not an issue.
But, money is ALWAYS an issue. In fact, it is the FUNDAMENTAL issue and always will be. Telling people they have to give more of it away and not expect them to adjust accordingly is simply living in Fantasy Land....
Ok. So what exactly to you have in mind to turn things around?
I've been meaning to attend a Morgan State Bears dual. Maybe I will buy season tickets next year and attend when I can (assuming they sell season tickets).
There are plenty of competitive teams in Olympic sports that have little to no attendance.
Take field hockey for example. I attended some at American and Lehigh when my niece played for Colgate. Way more than 83% of those in attendance are friends and family.
Have you even seen the size of their fields' bleachers. Not much more seating than when I played Little League baseball in 1975.
Only two schools having a realistic shot at the title for almost two decades doesn't help. I hate to say this, because I hate the organization, but more UFC involvement (with emphasis on individual match-ups) and promotion would be the way. Problem is that most UFC fans aren't really affiliated with institutions of higher learning, like colleges, or learning the intricacies of any sport that isn't obvious.
did ironbird steal your password? and did you read the entire conversation?
I did. I wasn't really arguing either of those points. I was actually trying to make the entire argument simple. It truly revolves around money and who and how certain groups are trying to force them to spend it.
Right or wrong, you don't tell a person, business or organization they are making too much money(even going as far as to say they are wrong in how they make it) and then expect them to form a plan that makes them less. If forced, they are going to find ways to offset those costs and those ways usually aren't good for those below/beholden to them...
I don’t think I said money was the issue! 😂
Knight wanted baseball, they had a numbers problem.
They couldn’t keep wrestling and add baseball without adding another women’s sport.
Adding another women’s sport takes away funds from the basketball/football programs
Oregon drops wrestling to add baseball.
Not sure how this is controversial.
how many dollars per word does Hawkeye Beacon pay you?
I have been trying to figure out ways for MANY years??? I would say QUAD meets/ dual meet tournaments might be a good starts? IOWA would not need this, but lets say Maryland, Michigan state etc..... Bring in a team or TWOOOO, THREEEE and make it an event.
Other ideas I have had were FREE clinics for ALL wrestlers. Roll out a BIG name like Spencer LEE for example, and have him give a clinic before the dual for like an hour or so.....
RULES i think in the L O N G run are the most import. I would add the OLD SKOOL dotted WARNING circle like FS use to have. If a wrestler backs up and steps on the line, REF signals a "warning" red for example. Now that wrestler can be pushed out and a point awarded to green! This I believe eliminates the playing the edge and ONLY awards the offensive wrestler!!!
^^^^ THIS is my point!!!! NO one cares because the sports SUCK(sorry if the truth hurts!?!?!?) The Olympics has become a SORRY ASS JOKE and once again goes back to LEADERSHIP!!!
Look, these sports exist because of POS title IX!!!! Now do NOT get me wrong!!! I am ALL for girls having their OWN sports!!! However, trying to make girls sports "equal" to mens sports is BS PERIOD!!!!
There was MUCH MORE diversity back in the day. LOOK at the championship photos, so many different skools could have a champion! With NIL, it appears that fewer and fewer will be able to 1) recruit a stud and 2) get to keep him!!!!
IOWA is suppose to be connected with the UFC??? I never fully got what that was about!?!?!? However, yes getting major card set up with a dual might help some?
IF anyone is stealing something, it is those trying to steal from SIR IRON!!! REMEMBER THAT!!!!
I would never charge to help educate those in need!
People love to make the NCAA this malevolent and powerful entity that imposes its will on institutions and athletes but the reality (as you point out) is that it does what the institutions want it to do and what the courts tell it it must do. It is, in fact, a non-profit organization and has extremely limited ability to enforce its own rules.
If anybody thought NIL would result in anything other than pay-to-play there were very naive. The new plan is to have a clearinghouse to make sure NIL deals in the future are just that and not thinly disguised pay-to-play. Will it succeed? Who knows. Before anyone brings it up, it is actually very easy to determine if a deal is legitimate value for payment received.
Revenue sharing will be interesting. There is going to be enormous financial pain at most athletic departments because they will effectively be getting a $20M budget cut. Will that hurt non-revenue sports? Seems almost certain.
Morgan State's wrestling team has participated in quad meets, including the Navy Quad Meet and the Morgan State Legacy Meet.
Impact seemed negligible.
Field Hockey was just an example. I attended a men's baseball game at UMBC. Similar set up. Facilities aren't designed for attendance when few attend.
It seems your position is pretty much anti any sport that doesn't have an associated professional league, and even then you'd be down on it if it couldn't produce revenue for the school.
Even football and basketball aren't supported at certain schools. It's the division of their TV $s that keeps them in business. With this as the litmus test, consider wrestling doomed.
Would need a MAJOR team or TWOOOO! In the cases of teams such as these. Maybe a team like NAVY brings in a couple of local HS powerhouses to battle it out.
AHHH you are WAY OFF!!! Has nothing to do with me being against any sport!!! What we are SUPPOSE to be talking about, is how to PROMOTE WRESTLING!!! and what is going to happen if we can't/won't/don't!?!?!? Coupled with the POS ncaa and NIL!!!!
AGAIN, IOWA is in a good position. We along with maybe a SMALL handful of others are all chasing F*** st with the great Krailure who started this whole F-IN mess spending money illegally and paying wrestlers!!! It has now snowballed to an ALL-OUT bidding WAR on getting recruits to field a team with 10 HAMMERS!!!!
MOST do NOT seem to understand where we are!?!?!?? Right now, we are talking about how many teams which have ANY shot at a title? This year, next year, TWOOO years from now etc....... You have F*** st, the HAWKS, Oklahoma st, and maybe Ohio st????? I am not seeing really any chance for any other teams!!! AND, much has to go right for anyone to catch these sh*theads over in happy low lying sh*thole!
ADD to this problem, the FACT that 1) Wrestling is not drawing crowds/attention etc.... in most places 2) Most MAJOR skools do not have a team!!!! 3) Most skools will not be able to recruit or keep TOP wrestlers and what do you have????? You have a formula for DISASTER!!!
I HOPE I am wrong, but I can see D1 wrestling falling to the way side like CRAP thru a Goose!!!!
My bad. It seemed to me you took to disparaging women's sports and other sports that don't enjoy broad support from the general populous.
I think there is more support for wrestling when there is more support for all Olympic sports and all women's sports. I saw videos of Penn State wrestlers supporting their women's volleyball team when it went on its champions run.
Wrestling support needn't disparage other sports likes women's to build itself up. I'm happy Iowa has a women's wrestling team and it's doing well.
NP, I have stated my views on many things including womens sports and womens wrestling. I would have never believed womens wrestling would ever be a thing!!! I do not really care for it much, but that is NOT to say I am against it. I have stated I would like to see the mens and womens teams working together more to build BOTH!!!
For example, I can not for the life of me figure out why they would not hold a womens meet before the mens meet? Say the women only draw a small % of the mens crowd? You still get a bunch of people into CARVER!!! They are buying stuff, you could have the BIG names there signing stuff etc..... Not saying for a BIG meet like F*** st, but for the smaller events.
Girls Volleyball is one of the sports I actually like!!! I think the ladies do an excellent job! My guess is though, many also watch for other reasons, sort of like beach volleyball!!!
Sure the biggest difference is Penn State's dominance over the last 13 years.
Q1: In the 13 championships before 2011 (1998-2010), how many different schools finished within 20 points of the team champion?
A1: 4 (Ohio State, Iowa State, Iowa and Minnesota, and Cael coached Iowa State then).
Q2: How many different champion schools in that time period?
A2: 3 (Iowa, Oklahoma St, Minnesota)
Compare that to the 13 championships between 2011 to 2024:
A1: 6 teams finished within 20 points: all in the following list, plus Minnesota and Oklahoma St who are in the 1998 to 2010 list, and Cornell. So actually two more teams.
A2: 3 different team champions (Penn State, Ohio State, Iowa). Two different names but same amount.
So no, it doesn't seem more teams were more likely to win the team title. Sure, you just don't like the distribution and changes among the three, and the reduction Iowa has seen. That's understandable.
In the past 27 years Iowa and Oklahoma St had their periods dominance. Minnesota has fallen much further than Iowa. Ohio State rose a bit and stalled out. Oklahoma St is pushing for a renaissance after it fell off. And Penn State is continuing its new found dominance under Cael.
Regardingless, with finishing within 20 points as the measure of contention, it looks like in any given year at most three teams had a serious chance of winning. And over the last 27 years, one could stretch it to say at most seven different schools have ever been in contention.
This should change now that Carl has quit.
I read it on the interwebs somewhere.
AHHH, you are leaving out way TWOOOO much!!! The B1Ggest is the fact that so few skools can have an individual champ!!!! With that, IF they get one, the chances of keeping him is SLIM!!!!
Even in the "haydays" of IOWA dominance, MOST often, a team scoring around 120 points could win. You built a team by having maybe 1,2, maybe 3 HAMMERS, then a few HIGH level kids, and rounded out the line up the best you could. AGAIN, in most years, this would be enough to either WIN and/or be in the title hunt!!!
That is currently OVER!!! There is NO path to a title right now without TEN HAMMERS!!!! and there does not appear to be an end in sight to this. For example, IOWA has an unbelievable team NOW and coming in with the new recruits. Currently, this years team, would need a few MIRACLES to take place to even have a chance!!!
Think about what I am telling you here!!!! The hawks could punch 3-4 to the FINALS, have 3 champs, 7-8 AAs and still LOSE!!!! Next year, we unleash ANGELO, move ARNOLD to his proper weight. We have the #2 165 coming back, the #1 133, a top heavy, the #1 125 in the country coming in etc...... AND we are still looking for some kind of way to knock of the CRIMINAL over in Happy Low lying ditch over there!?!?!?!?
Then, even the following year, where I feel IOWA has a good shot, we STILL need several things to fall our way!!!! Now some other fans from other skools can certainly chime in here!!!! I would love to here from those who follow Oklahoma st, Ohio st, Minny, Nebraska, etc..... DO ANY of you see a path??????
I mean you look at the CYHAWK rivalry. IOWA has owned them for a while but the dual has been competitive as of late. BUT if/when the HAWKS get to that next level which they need to do. That dual becomes a joke!!! In other words, F*** st would smoke em this year, and I am not sure they can keep the pace and that goes for just about every other team?!?!??!
So really you're issue is just that Penn State seems uncatchable now, and you attribute it to unfair amounts of $. Sort of sounds like when Penn State fans attribute Iowa's heyday to extra scholarships.
It wasn't that long ago Iowa had a whopping points total and five champions. Maybe dynasties now and then have more to do with recruit quality and coaching appropriate to the respective eras.
Eventually Cael will retire just as Gable did. Some team with the right coach and supporters will rise. And a new dynasty will be born.
My point is there have only and always been few wrestling dynasties which have dominated the sport. I don't expect that will change.
