ADVERTISEMENT

Predict

255

HB All-American
Feb 23, 2002
2,789
1,523
113
This board is great at analyzing data. Truly.
I have seen line ups that go out 4 years and those have come to be directionally true.

So let's go out on a limb.

I would like to hear from you all what it will take for the Hawks to win the NCAA's?
Based on what we know now and with some detail. (Don't say the Hawks have to score more points). Want to see what you really think can or should happen.

Let's hear it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hawkfromday1
25 Gilman Top 4 finish
33 Clark Saturday night
41 Grothus AA
49 Sorenson Top 4 finish
57 TBD but qualifier 1-2
65 Paddock qualifier 2-2
74 Meyer Top 6
84 Brooks Top 6
97 Burak Top 4
HWT Stoll round of 12 (humble opinion/wish)

7 AA's and need two champs to compete with PSU. This team has the potential and attitude to get it done. Going to be an exciting year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: winwithdignity
Seriously with this comment??

All it would take this year is for our guys to wrestle to their abilities and for Grothus to be able to handle the cut to 141 and wrestle to his ablilities. If those things happen, I like our chances.

An act of God?? Really??
Sorry, but for both of these to happen it would take an act of god.
 
I was waiting for that opening. The odds of us winning a title this year are the same as everyone on this board buying a copy of Beep! Beep! Go to Sleep! And there is only one way to truly test those odds.
 
So you got my love for wrestling research activated 255 so I will let you all know just how Iowa is going to win the NCAA title this season. First, I took the average placements points of every single All-American in the 2015 NCAA tournament (I wanted to do 2014+2013 as well, but I still have other homework I need to finish tonight before class tomorrow, a project for another time for sure.) to give a somewhat concrete number that we can establish for hypothetical placement and placement points for our guys.

Average 2015 NCAA AA finish pts
1st: Average came to 23.85 -> 24
2nd: Average came to 17.85 -> 18
3rd: Average came to 16.6 -> 16.5
4th: Average came to 13.95 -> 14
5th: Average came to 12
6th: Average came to 10
7th: Average came to 8.5
8th: Average came to 6

Our guys:
125: Thomas Gilman, Do I think the NCAA Semis last year was a fluke? Yes. Can i prove it? No. But I don't think that will happen again this year when Gilman makes the finals, and he makes his way to the finals to face off against either Tomasello or Megaludis in my opinion. I think Gilmans floor this next year is 3rd, but I think he finds his way to the finals and loses a close one. +18

133: Cory Clark, Nobody in the country thinks that anybody can stop Brewer this season except Iowa fans. Cory Clark is a true competitor and I will his will to win scrambles and defensive situations, as well as his wide arsenal of offense, which is very effective with proper setups. His style is a lot like McDonough in my opinion with a little more slickness in some moves. I think he makes his way to his second NCAA final and gets revenge on Brewer, they are neck and neck, and Clark is great at making adjustments for opponents. Champ. +24

141: Brody Grothus, He has the heart of a lion and if you listened to him on takedown radio you will know how much internal drive he has to be in this lineup and help this team win an NCAA title, and also accomplish his own goals. 2 years ago he beat the top 4 finishers at 149. Last year off to a good start then injured. He has a lot to prove for himself and will be a big time player if he can manage the cut well. The Iowa homer in me wants to predict a top 5 finish but a lot of things can happen especially over a 3 day tournament. I'll predict conservatively for now and say he takes about 7th. +8.5

149: Brandon Sorensen. 4th as a Freshman and last years finalists are gone. But a new addition to the weight with Zain Retherford will prove to be a very tough obstacle in his path. Most feel Zain is the new favorite at the weight and Sorensen has shown he is right there with Tsirtsis but holds the disadvantage in the series 1-2. It will be a 3 way dogfight and I will again stay conservative here and give Sorensen a 3rd place finish, nothing to scoff at and is a legitimate NCAA champ contender at the weight. +16.5

157: Cooper/Rhoads?, Not sure who is going here for sure but I might be leaning towards Cooper as Rhoads spot started for Moore at 165 last year and we saw Cooper go once or twice I believe at 157. I'm hoping whoever we put out there can be competitive enough to get about 2.5 pts at NCAAs. 2-2. +2.5

165: Burke Paddock, I'm looking for the same out of 165 as 157 this season, to be competitive and score some team points, hopefully get a few wins good chance for the freshman to prove himself. 2-2. +2.5

174: Alex Meyer, Finally Alex's time to shine in the lineup and think he will take it and run with it. He is a legit title contender at this weight with how it clears out. He has wins over Crutchmer, Butler, and Brunson(Maybe Julson will have to check on this). Us Hawkeye fans know how good Alex will be this year, especially with how the weight clears out, but a name to lookout for is Nickal from PSU, will have to see how he adds to the mix. But as of now my pick for Meyer is 3rd, he is prone to giving up his legs at times and it may bite him, but he has shown to be a come from behind and backside warrior. +16.5

184: Sammy Brooks, Things are looking great for Sammy Brooks this year, especially if he is healthy all season. It appears Gabe Dean will be redshirting and this opens up at the top, as I feel there is a lot of parity at this weight. Everyone else comes back though in terms of AAs. We all know how tough and dynamic Brooks is when hes healthy, and if he brings that to the table I see no reason why he can't win it this year, but i'm staying somewhat conservative and will say top 5, about 4th. He beat the 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 8th finishers last year, lost to the 1st and 4th, (Dean and Stauffer). I'd say hes near the top of this pack. +14.

197: Nathan Burak, Things clear out a bit in this weight class for Mr consistent. Hes been mainly beating people he 'should' beat and losing to people who finish higher than him at NCAAs. Schiller is gone who has been his kryptonite for a while, Snyder is redshirting, Gadsen gone. McIntosh, Hartmann, and Cox return, and theres been various rumors surrounding the Cox situation regarding RS/moving to hwt/staying at 97. But I'll assume hes still there, and I'll give Burak at 3rd place finish. He might be able to squeak into the finals, but he hasn't had any success against McIntosh or Cox. I think he could beat that Hartmann fellow from Duke IMO. +16.5

285: Sam Stoll, another freshman I'm excited to see, hopefully will see some pins throughout the season with Greco throws. But I just haven't seen the evidence that hes with the top guys at this weight, lost to MIzzous hwt last year 2 or 3 times who was in the 12-16 range of guys. Will he be able to hang with most people, probably, but i'm not sure he'll be able to beat the top guys. I'm predicting about a 2-2 finish for his first NCAA's but as with all of these predictions, are subject to change due to future variables. 2-2. +2.5

QUICK RECAP:
125: Gilman 2nd +18
133: Clark 1st +24
141: Grothus 7th +8.5
149: Sorensen 3rd +16.5
157: Cooper 2-2 +2.5
165: Paddock 2-2 +2.5
174: Meyer 3rd +16.5
184: Brooks 4th +14
197: Burak 3rd +16.5
285: Stoll 2-2 +2.5
Team: 1st - 121.5 pts

I think even with this somewhat optimistic overall finish its all pretty realistic in my perception, feel free to let me know what is unrealistic if you disagree. The few areas that might be points of contention for rival fans would probably be Grothus, Meyer and Brooks I'm assuming, but while Grothus has yet to be proven Meyer and Brooks are both proven IMO. Its still above 100 points even if you take away Grothus/Cooper/Paddock/Stoll. But I don't think its that far of a stretch at all to see Gilman/Clark/Sorensen/Meyer/Brooks/Burak all top 4. Maybe to be even more conservative puts Meyer and Brooks in the top 6 Category, but that doesn't hurt the overall points total even that badly, its still in the upper 90s.

102 pts won the whole shebang last season, and it still puts us in striking distance no matter what.

***Some Variables to consider that may obviously alter the predictions
A. How Grothus adjusts to his new weight
B. Who our 157 lber is and how he progresses
C. How Grothus handles multiple day weigh ins as well
D. How the freshman at 165 and 285 make an impact
E. How Meyer and Brooks prove themselves

I think Gilman/Clark/Sorensen/Burak are locks for top 4 in my opinion, and I believe Meyer and Brooks have the ability to be in that group as well, but have a bit lower floor to maybe be in the 5-8 range as well. I would like to hear PSU's predictions for how each of their guys will finish at the weight, as you have to figure they plan on Champs from Megaludis, Retherford, and McIntosh, and AA finishes out of Conaway/Gulibon/Nolf/Nickal/Nevills. I agree Nickal and Nevills will be good, but i'm not sold on the two of them as much as Nolf. A lot of crazy stuff happens and neither of them have had the signature win that Nolf got over their RS year. Basically for the same reason many opposing fans are skeptical of Grothus i'm skeptical of those two. So PSU fans might want to write them in as AA locks, i don't consider them to be yet.
 
I'll mention this before PBS does so he doesn't have to make this exact comment.

What if everyone else on every other team also wrestles to their potential. Does that bump any Iowa guys down?
Wayment.
I make a comment about the Grothus optimism and now I'm the defacto devils advocate for Iowa predictions?
 
So you got my love for wrestling research activated 255 so I will let you all know just how Iowa is going to win the NCAA title this season. First, I took the average placements points of every single All-American in the 2015 NCAA tournament (I wanted to do 2014+2013 as well, but I still have other homework I need to finish tonight before class tomorrow, a project for another time for sure.) to give a somewhat concrete number that we can establish for hypothetical placement and placement points for our guys.

Average 2015 NCAA AA finish pts
1st: Average came to 23.85 -> 24
2nd: Average came to 17.85 -> 18
3rd: Average came to 16.6 -> 16.5
4th: Average came to 13.95 -> 14
5th: Average came to 12
6th: Average came to 10
7th: Average came to 8.5
8th: Average came to 6

Our guys:
125: Thomas Gilman, Do I think the NCAA Semis last year was a fluke? Yes. Can i prove it? No. But I don't think that will happen again this year when Gilman makes the finals, and he makes his way to the finals to face off against either Tomasello or Megaludis in my opinion. I think Gilmans floor this next year is 3rd, but I think he finds his way to the finals and loses a close one. +18

133: Cory Clark, Nobody in the country thinks that anybody can stop Brewer this season except Iowa fans. Cory Clark is a true competitor and I will his will to win scrambles and defensive situations, as well as his wide arsenal of offense, which is very effective with proper setups. His style is a lot like McDonough in my opinion with a little more slickness in some moves. I think he makes his way to his second NCAA final and gets revenge on Brewer, they are neck and neck, and Clark is great at making adjustments for opponents. Champ. +24

141: Brody Grothus, He has the heart of a lion and if you listened to him on takedown radio you will know how much inter00nal drive he has to be in this lineup and help this team win an NCAA title, and also accomplish his own goals. 2 years ago he beat the top 4 finishers at 149. Last year off to a good start then injured. He has a lot to prove for himself and will be a big time player if he can manage the cut well. The Iowa homer in me wants to predict a top 5 finish but a lot of things can happen especially over a 3 day tournament. I'll predict conservatively for now and say he takes about 7th. +8.5

149: Brandon Sorensen. 4th as a Freshman and last years finalists are gone. But a new addition to the weight with Zain Retherford will prove to be a very tough obstacle in his path. Most feel Zain is the new favorite at the weight and Sorensen has shown he is right there with Tsirtsis but holds the disadvantage in the series 1-2. It will be a 3 way dogfight and I will again stay conservative here and give Sorensen a 3rd place finish, nothing to scoff at and is a legitimate NCAA champ contender at the weight. +16.5

157: Cooper/Rhoads?, Not sure who is going here for sure but I might be leaning towards Cooper as Rhoads spot started for Moore at 165 last year and we saw Cooper go once or twice I believe at 157. I'm hoping whoever we put out there can be competitive enough to get about 2.5 pts at NCAAs. 2-2. +2.5

165: Burke Paddock, I'm looking for the same out of 165 as 157 this season, to be competitive and score some team points, hopefully get a few wins good chance for the freshman to prove himself. 2-2. +2.5

174: Alex Meyer, Finally Alex's time to shine in the lineup and think he will take it and run with it. He is a legit title contender at this weight with how it clears out. He has wins over Crutchmer, Butler, and Brunson(Maybe Julson will have to check on this). Us Hawkeye fans know how good Alex will be this year, especially with how the weight clears out, but a name to lookout for is Nickal from PSU, will have to see how he adds to the mix. But as of now my pick for Meyer is 3rd, he is prone to giving up his legs at times and it may bite him, but he has shown to be a come from behind and backside warrior. +16.5

184: Sammy Brooks, Things are looking great for Sammy Brooks this year, especially if he is healthy all season. It appears Gabe Dean will be redshirting and this opens up at the top, as I feel there is a lot of parity at this weight. Everyone else comes back though in terms of AAs. We all know how tough and dynamic Brooks is when hes healthy, and if he brings that to the table I see no reason why he can't win it this year, but i'm staying somewhat conservative and will say top 5, about 4th. He beat the 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 8th finishers last year, lost to the 1st and 4th, (Dean and Stauffer). I'd say hes near the top of this pack. +14.

197: Nathan Burak, Things clear out a bit in this weight class for Mr consistent. Hes been mainly beating people he 'should' beat and losing to people who finish higher than him at NCAAs. Schiller is gone who has been his kryptonite for a while, Snyder is redshirting, Gadsen gone. McIntosh, Hartmann, and Cox return, and theres been various rumors surrounding the Cox situation regarding RS/moving to hwt/staying at 97. But I'll assume hes still there, and I'll give Burak at 3rd place finish. He might be able to squeak into the finals, but he hasn't had any success against McIntosh or Cox. I think he could beat that Hartmann fellow from Duke IMO. +16.5

285: Sam Stoll, another freshman I'm excited to see, hopefully will see some pins throughout the season with Greco throws. But I just haven't seen the evidence that hes with the top guys at this weight, lost to MIzzous hwt last year 2 or 3 times who was in the 12-16 range of guys. Will he be able to hang with most people, probably, but i'm not sure he'll be able to beat the top guys. I'm predicting about a 2-2 finish for his first NCAA's but as with all of these predictions, are subject to change due to future variables. 2-2. +2.5

QUICK RECAP:
125: Gilman 2nd +18
133: Clark 1st +24
141: Grothus 7th +8.5
149: Sorensen 3rd +16.5
157: Cooper 2-2 +2.5
165: Paddock 2-2 +2.5
174: Meyer 3rd +16.5
184: Brooks 4th +14
197: Burak 3rd +16.5
285: Stoll 2-2 +2.5
Team: 1st - 121.5 pts

I think even with this somewhat optimistic overall finish its all pretty realistic in my perception, feel free to let me know what is unrealistic if you disagree. The few areas that might be points of contention for rival fans would probably be Grothus, Meyer and Brooks I'm assuming, but while Grothus has yet to be proven Meyer and Brooks are both proven IMO. Its still above 100 points even if you take away Grothus/Cooper/Paddock/Stoll. But I don't think its that far of a stretch at all to see Gilman/Clark/Sorensen/Meyer/Brooks/Burak all top 4. Maybe to be even more conservative puts Meyer and Brooks in the top 6 Category, but that doesn't hurt the overall points total even that badly, its still in the upper 90s.

102 pts won the whole shebang last season, and it still puts us in striking distance no matter what.

***Some Variables to consider that may obviously alter the predictions
A. How Grothus adjusts to his new weight
B. Who our 157 lber is and how he progresses
C. How Grothus handles multiple day weigh ins as well
D. How the freshman at 165 and 285 make an impact
E. How Meyer and Brooks prove themselves

I think Gilman/Clark/Sorensen/Burak are locks for top 4 in my opinion, and I believe Meyer and Brooks have the ability to be in that group as well, but have a bit lower floor to maybe be in the 5-8 range as well. I would like to hear PSU's predictions for how each of their guys will finish at the weight, as you have to figure they plan on Champs from Megaludis, Retherford, and McIntosh, and AA finishes out of Conaway/Gulibon/Nolf/Nickal/Nevills. I agree Nickal and Nevills will be good, but i'm not sold on the two of them as much as Nolf. A lot of crazy stuff happens and neither of them have had the signature win that Nolf got over their RS year. Basically for the same reason many opposing fans are skeptical of Grothus i'm skeptical of those two. So PSU fans might want to write them in as AA locks, i don't consider them to be yet.
Well thought out, written and exactly what the OP asked for.
Not that I disagree with anything but as the designated devils advocate (jk) a few things:
When you started by stating Gilman in the semis was a fluke I initially thought you meant him being there was a fluke and all of HR was about to turn on you but all the words that followed proved your loyalty.
By "for the same reason many opposing fans are skeptical of Grothus" you are skeptical of Nickal/Nevills do you mean you are not convinced they will make the weight effectively and/or be the starters?
Of the listed variables the only one that really matters in your analysis is (E) because even if 141/157/165/285 don't qualify for the tournament then by your "conservative" estimates Hawks still win with a score of 105.5 :)
 
Last edited:
By "for the same reason many opposing fans are skeptical of Grothus" I meant in the general sense that he is unproven at the weight and has yet to get any big wins at 141 (because he has yet to compete at the weight :p). I wouldn't say 105.5 is the magic number to win this season either, I think PSU, Okie State, and maybe tOSU all have the firepower to put up 90-100+ points as well. I don't think it would be out of the question to see 2 or 3 of these teams over 100 points.
In 2013: 1. PSU 123.5 2. Okie State 119 3. Minne 103
In 2014: 1. PSU 109.5 2. Minne 104 3. Okie state 96.5

I think this season we will have a similar 3 way high scoring shootout for NCAA title, with Iowa instead of Minne as in the examples. tOSU also has a good shot, but a lot will depend on the health of hunter stieber on his return and what they do with 141-157 and 174&197. Lots of uncertainty in the buckeye lineup to this point and might rely on contributions from true freshman Keyshawn hayes and Myles Martin.

Edit: Also keep in mind these are just averages from the 2015 tournament, and as always the average will not fit every individual. Maybe all Iowa guys score below the avg for the placement, or maybe they all score above or any combination of 7 guys above 3 below average. The possibilities are endless which is why bonus points make the NCAA tourny interesting. It would be a little "easier" to predict if placements all had a set value and bonus points or advancement points weren't factored at all.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: PapaBearSLIM
Based on a combination of Flo's and wrestlestat's rankings (Flo only goes through 165 right now), the race looks like this:

1st - PSU
125 Megaludis 2nd (wrestlestats has him at 10th, which is too low, I'm going with 2nd) (18)
133 Conaway 5th-12th (I'm going with 6th) (10)
141 Gulibon 2nd (18)
149 Retherford 2nd-8th (I'm going with 2nd) (18)
157 Jason Nolf 5th-7th (I'm going with 6th) (10)
165 Hammond R12 (3)
174 Nickal R12 (3)
184 McCutcheon R12 (3)
197 McIntosh 1st (thanks, Snyder) (24)
285 Nevills R12 (3)
Total: 110
Complain all you want about Flo's rankings, but subtract 10 team points and they're still in the lead.

2nd - OKST
125 Klimara 6th-7th (9)
133 Wayne-Harding (0)
141 Heil 1st-6th (I'm going 4th) (14)
149 Collica 7th (8.5)
157 Marsteller R12 (3)
165 Dieringer 1st (24)
174 Crutchmer 1st (24)
184 Boyd R12 (3)
197 Schafer (0)
285 Marsden 6th (10)
Total: 95.5
Two champs and a few scattered AAs = big points.

3rd - Iowa
125 Gilman 3rd (16.5)
133 Clark 2nd (18)
141 Grothus R12 (3)
149 Sorensen 2nd-3rd (I'm going with 3rd) (16.5)
157 Cooper/Rhoads (0)
165 Paddock (0)
174 Meyer 6th (10)
184 Brooks R12 (3)
197 Burak 4th (14)
285 Stoll (0)
Total: 81
Grothus is a wild card, but even if he's 4th, that's 11 more points, which still puts us in 3rd. Our lineups of late look like the Iowa lineups of the 80s and 90s minus the 2-3 champs (substitute Joe Williams, Marty Kistler, and Lou Banach at 157, 165, and 285 and we're back where we should be.) Until we put multiple champs in the lineup, this is what our future looks like.

4th - tOSU
125 Tomasello 1st (24)
133 DiJulius 7th-11th (going with 8th) (6)
141 Hayes (0)
149 Stieber R12 (3)
157 M Jordan (not ranked by Flo, 19th by wrestlestats, but he was 27-2 as a redshirt. I'm putting him R12) (3)
165 B Jordan 2nd (18)
174 Martin 14th-15th (2)
184 Courts 6th-7th( 9)
197 Martin (0)
285 Haines/Tavanello (Haines not ranked, Tavanello 18th, both too low, I'm going R12) (3)
Total: 68
A lot depends on the new kids, but I think this is reasonable within 10 points, which doesn't pass anyone ahead of them.

Don't kill the messenger. This is not the way I want it to play out either.
 
Based on a combination of Flo's and wrestlestat's rankings (Flo only goes through 165 right now), the race looks like this:

1st - PSU
125 Megaludis 2nd (wrestlestats has him at 10th, which is too low, I'm going with 2nd) (18)
133 Conaway 5th-12th (I'm going with 6th) (10)
141 Gulibon 2nd (18)
149 Retherford 2nd-8th (I'm going with 2nd) (18)
157 Jason Nolf 5th-7th (I'm going with 6th) (10)
165 Hammond R12 (3)
174 Nickal R12 (3)
184 McCutcheon R12 (3)
197 McIntosh 1st (thanks, Snyder) (24)
285 Nevills R12 (3)
Total: 110
Complain all you want about Flo's rankings, but subtract 10 team points and they're still in the lead.

2nd - OKST
125 Klimara 6th-7th (9)
133 Wayne-Harding (0)
141 Heil 1st-6th (I'm going 4th) (14)
149 Collica 7th (8.5)
157 Marsteller R12 (3)
165 Dieringer 1st (24)
174 Crutchmer 1st (24)
184 Boyd R12 (3)
197 Schafer (0)
285 Marsden 6th (10)
Total: 95.5
Two champs and a few scattered AAs = big points.

3rd - Iowa
125 Gilman 3rd (16.5)
133 Clark 2nd (18)
141 Grothus R12 (3)
149 Sorensen 2nd-3rd (I'm going with 3rd) (16.5)
157 Cooper/Rhoads (0)
165 Paddock (0)
174 Meyer 6th (10)
184 Brooks R12 (3)
197 Burak 4th (14)
285 Stoll (0)
Total: 81
Grothus is a wild card, but even if he's 4th, that's 11 more points, which still puts us in 3rd. Our lineups of late look like the Iowa lineups of the 80s and 90s minus the 2-3 champs (substitute Joe Williams, Marty Kistler, and Lou Banach at 157, 165, and 285 and we're back where we should be.) Until we put multiple champs in the lineup, this is what our future looks like.

4th - tOSU
125 Tomasello 1st (24)
133 DiJulius 7th-11th (going with 8th) (6)
141 Hayes (0)
149 Stieber R12 (3)
157 M Jordan (not ranked by Flo, 19th by wrestlestats, but he was 27-2 as a redshirt. I'm putting him R12) (3)
165 B Jordan 2nd (18)
174 Martin 14th-15th (2)
184 Courts 6th-7th( 9)
197 Martin (0)
285 Haines/Tavanello (Haines not ranked, Tavanello 18th, both too low, I'm going R12) (3)
Total: 68
A lot depends on the new kids, but I think this is reasonable within 10 points, which doesn't pass anyone ahead of them.

Don't kill the messenger. This is not the way I want it to play out either.

I agree with the overall ordering and most of the individual assessments. One disagreement is that I would predict a higher finish for Sammy B and I don't see Crutchmer as the future champ. What's worrisome is that PSU still has serious upside potential with McCutheon, Nickel, Nevills and even Nolf beyond what you predict. The bottom line is that Iowa has no margin for error at the big dance, and they need a break-out performance from one or two new folks. Let's get the season started already.
 
  • Like
Reactions: andegre
It's also clear that Iowa could get a huge boost if Brody is able to go hard at 141. An individual title for Brody puts the Hawks over 100 points under this system. Yeah, probably some wishful thinking, but I wouldn't rule it out. I do think he's very likely to do better than R12, in any case..

This breakdown does make it pretty clear that we need big production from Brody at 141 to have a shot. It had been mentioned on here that we just needed our proven returning guys to do well. Yes, that's important, but we're going to need production from just about everyone to win it all, IMO. Even just a few points out of 157, 165, and 285 could be huge.
 
Last edited:
Looking at Flo's rankings @ 165, I'm hoping Burke can make some hay. This is gonna be fun seeing how 141, 157, 165 and hwt pan out.
 
The thing I like about the hawks this year, is the guys we are relying on to be our big point scorers, I'll refer to them as the Super 6, have all proven themselves to be consistent winners and bruisers. Gilman, Clark, Sorensen, Meyer, Brooks, Burak. Gilman, Clark, Sorensen have been excellent since the start. Burak developed fast and furious as a true freshman made R12, and is only a 2x AA since then, consistent. Meyer and Brooks have been consistent winners, Meyer has been behind Evans. Brooks was behind Lofthouse for a year, but still won a lot at 184 and 197 that season, and then was injured for his first NCAA's where he lost to 1st seed in Quarters and 4th seed in R12, tough draw for an injured Sammy. I am not worried about these horses in the stable and they alone put us in contention for the title, similar to Ohio States 'Fab Five' last season.

That leaves us with 141/157/165/285. With the Super 6's points already enough to put us in the Top 3, i'd say that any points from these weights is insurance and probably be the deciding factor. Obviously there is pretty big potential at 141 for Grothus, and then we get to see some exciting progression with the other 3 weights, and hopefully it translates to team points, enough to push us over PSU or OSU or tOSU at the big dance.
 
Love all the predictions, I do them myself. Makes for fun reading before the season starts. But one thing I've learned is that anything can and will happen at the national tournament. Last year, only 13 of 80 AA's (16%) wrestled exactly to their seed, and 6 of those were #1 seeds. Excluding those 6, of which 5 were on almost everyone's list to win (Steiber, Martinez, Dieringer, Dean and Gwiz), less that 10% of wrestlers matched seed. Another fact...there were 8 unseeded wrestlers (outside the top-16) that AA'd. There is high variability at the national tournament, and it affects every team.
 
Based on a combination of Flo's and wrestlestat's rankings (Flo only goes through 165 right now), the race looks like this:

1st - PSU
125 Megaludis 2nd (wrestlestats has him at 10th, which is too low, I'm going with 2nd) (18)
133 Conaway 5th-12th (I'm going with 6th) (10)
141 Gulibon 2nd (18)
149 Retherford 2nd-8th (I'm going with 2nd) (18)
157 Jason Nolf 5th-7th (I'm going with 6th) (10)
165 Hammond R12 (3)
174 Nickal R12 (3)
184 McCutcheon R12 (3)
197 McIntosh 1st (thanks, Snyder) (24)
285 Nevills R12 (3)
Total: 110
Complain all you want about Flo's rankings, but subtract 10 team points and they're still in the lead.

2nd - OKST
125 Klimara 6th-7th (9)
133 Wayne-Harding (0)
141 Heil 1st-6th (I'm going 4th) (14)
149 Collica 7th (8.5)
157 Marsteller R12 (3)
165 Dieringer 1st (24)
174 Crutchmer 1st (24)
184 Boyd R12 (3)
197 Schafer (0)
285 Marsden 6th (10)
Total: 95.5
Two champs and a few scattered AAs = big points.

3rd - Iowa
125 Gilman 3rd (16.5)
133 Clark 2nd (18)
141 Grothus R12 (3)
149 Sorensen 2nd-3rd (I'm going with 3rd) (16.5)
157 Cooper/Rhoads (0)
165 Paddock (0)
174 Meyer 6th (10)
184 Brooks R12 (3)
197 Burak 4th (14)
285 Stoll (0)
Total: 81
Grothus is a wild card, but even if he's 4th, that's 11 more points, which still puts us in 3rd. Our lineups of late look like the Iowa lineups of the 80s and 90s minus the 2-3 champs (substitute Joe Williams, Marty Kistler, and Lou Banach at 157, 165, and 285 and we're back where we should be.) Until we put multiple champs in the lineup, this is what our future looks like.

4th - tOSU
125 Tomasello 1st (24)
133 DiJulius 7th-11th (going with 8th) (6)
141 Hayes (0)
149 Stieber R12 (3)
157 M Jordan (not ranked by Flo, 19th by wrestlestats, but he was 27-2 as a redshirt. I'm putting him R12) (3)
165 B Jordan 2nd (18)
174 Martin 14th-15th (2)
184 Courts 6th-7th( 9)
197 Martin (0)
285 Haines/Tavanello (Haines not ranked, Tavanello 18th, both too low, I'm going R12) (3)
Total: 68
A lot depends on the new kids, but I think this is reasonable within 10 points, which doesn't pass anyone ahead of them.

Don't kill the messenger. This is not the way I want it to play out either.
Decent analysis, and it is for sure PSU's to lose. But I think Iowa will score more than 81. I really like Brooks and expect him to score big points. And Stoll is capable of pinning a couple of guys at Nats for some helpful bonus points.

This is a stronger team than last year, imo, and ought to score more points.
 
Based on a combination of Flo's and wrestlestat's rankings (Flo only goes through 165 right now), the race looks like this:
...
Grothus is a wild card, but even if he's 4th, that's 11 more points, which still puts us in 3rd. Our lineups of late look like the Iowa lineups of the 80s and 90s minus the 2-3 champs (substitute Joe Williams, Marty Kistler, and Lou Banach at 157, 165, and 285 and we're back where we should be.) Until we put multiple champs in the lineup, this is what our future looks like.

Nailed it.^^ Under this scoring system, the team champ either needs 9-10 mid-to-high AA's AND a stumble or two on the part of other notable teams OR usually at least 2 champs with 4-5 AA's to go with. Any team getting 9-10 mid-to-high AA's in a year is about as common as last night's blood moon.

Soooo, you really need 1-3 champs or a champ and two finalists, etc, to go with another 3-4 AA's. 5-7 AA's and a finalist or two...equals 2nd through 4th place.
 
I wouldn't have thought this last year, but looking at the upcoming roster, it's not a huge stretch for the Hawks to win a team NC this year.
These predictions are always fun, so I'll throw my two bits in.

Gilman - 3rd
I think Mega final wins his NC this year. I think Dance, NaTo, and Gilman are the three best after Mega. I can see Dance having a big year. Ideally would like to have Dance and Mega on the upper half of the bracket come tourney time and Gilman and Nato bottom. If this happens, I think Gilman wrestles Saturday night.
Moisey is good and is right behind these 4, but everyone knows who he is now and he won't be taking anyone by surprise come Tourney time.

Clark - 1st
Yea, Brewer was a hurricane at the Tourney last year. Clark will be motivated more than ever this year to get back there Saturday night and take home the title this time. Rutt will have Clark strong as ever so Brewer won't be able to out-muscle Clark. A stronger and experienced Clark will win the toughest weight class this year.

Grothus - 1st...
He's gonna be like the Kevin Jack of last year for this upcoming Tourney. He's going to be a nightmare on top and very very tough in every other position. He's proven in the past that he has the wrestling savvy and toughness to beat the best. This year, his final senior season, is his time to shine, and shine he will.

Sorenson - 4th
Brandon's consistent (40wins) and among the elites in this weight, but Z Retherford is going to be a big obstacle along with TShirt. I think T-Shirt has an inspiring season in wake of a family tragedy and meets and beats Retherford in the finals. I can see Sorenson losing to either T-Shirt or Zain in the Tourney than dropping a match to either Clagon or Collica in the 3rd place match.

Cooper? - 0-2 (May not qualify weight) Regardless...0
Sounds like it could be Cooper here? Don't know who it's going to be, but I'm not expecting a whole lot out of 57 this year unless Brands pulls Kemerer's redshirt. I could see an Imar vs Cody Pack finals at NCAAs.

Paddock - 1-2
Young kid who I think has a chance to be pretty descent this year. He did pretty good wrestling unattached last year. I see him qualifying the weight for us at the Tourney but losing the first round to win one consolation than lose again. I expect some points from Paddock at NCAAs. Also expect Isaac Jordan vs Dieranger finals.

Meyer - 3rd
For me, he's the preseason favorite coming into this year considering who he's beaten and almost beat last year (Miklus)
I'm not so worried about Crutchmer as I am with Z. Brunson, Blaise Butler, and Bo Nickal. If the brackets align where Crutchmer meets Alex before the finals, I think Alex beats Crutchmer and than gets beat by one of the three mentioned above or vice versa.

Brooks - 4th
Love Brooks aggressive style, but you could see some of that fade a bit towards the end of the season and at NCAAs. Brooks toughness and will to win was there (he took Gabe Dean to the brink), but he's health wasn't 100% after the National Duels. With Dean gone, Brooks has a good Tourney but falls to either Dechow, Stauffer, or Avery. Browns good, but he didn't overwhelm me while watching him at the National Duels. I think Brooks beats everybody else at the tourney outside of these guys. Dechow wins NC title.

Burak - 4th
Snyder is gone which helps, but some Lunkers hanging around at this weight.
Burak needs to realize how good he is in order for him to crack the elites rankings. I think Burak has a solid season with some notable wins, but regresses come Tourney time. He'll lose his final college match of his career to Conner Hartman. Cox wins (if he's still in the weight) over Mcintosh in the finals.

Stoll - 0-2
Athletic heavyweights like Coon and Gwiz are gonna roll Stoll his first year out. Stoll will qualify his weight but little more than that. His greco throws are gonna make for some spectacular pins at Carver, and it's gonna be a lot of fun to cheer for. But, Stoll will have trouble with the big boys who can shoot and scramble. I think Berhow and Rutt are going to do great things with Stoll, but it will take a season under his belt for it to sink in. Next year, Stoll will be a point getter at the NCAAs and a big one thanks to his pinning ways.

Definitely a little homer bias here, but I don't think it's a that much.
Realistically, PSU is your front runner for the NC team title, but if Iowa stays healthy and peaks at the right time, Hawks have all the guys in place to make it happen this year.
 
I think Gilman/Clark/Sorensen/Burak are locks for top 4 in my opinion, and I believe Meyer and Brooks have the ability to be in that group as well, but have a bit lower floor to maybe be in the 5-8 range as well. I would like to hear PSU's predictions for how each of their guys will finish at the weight, as you have to figure they plan on Champs from Megaludis, Retherford, and McIntosh, and AA finishes out of Conaway/Gulibon/Nolf/Nickal/Nevills. I agree Nickal and Nevills will be good, but i'm not sold on the two of them as much as Nolf. A lot of crazy stuff happens and neither of them have had the signature win that Nolf got over their RS year. Basically for the same reason many opposing fans are skeptical of Grothus i'm skeptical of those two. So PSU fans might want to write them in as AA locks, i don't consider them to be yet.

I think your Bo Nickal skepticism is fair. He had no great wins last year, and some of the wins he did have early in the year against lesser opponents were pretty close. I think he has a good shot at making the podium, but I realize that might be my Penn State talking. I can't point to any results from last year to support my case.

I think you might be selling Nevills a little short, though. He didn't have any wins like Nolf's win over Realbuto, but he did have a decisive win over the #8 returning heavy (only 6-1 but with somewhere around 5 minutes of riding time) and another win over the #11 returning heavy. HIs only loss was to Marsden in a match where he broke his foot on the first scramble. Hard to imagine he'd be ranked much lower than 8 in the preseason. I think it's reasonable to predict an AA finish (though I wouldn't call any freshman on any team a lock for the podium).

I think Megaludis, Retherford and McIntosh are title contenders. I think Gullibon,Nolf and Nevills could be top 4. And I think Conaway, Nickal and McCutcheon are all somewhere between the lower steps of the podium and R12.

I also agree with Whejoe about 165. It's so top heavy that after Ringer and the Jordans, there is plenty of room for guys like Paddock or Hammond/Rasheed/Beitz to make a mark.
 
Cholley, I was not aware of the wins by Nevills over #8 and #11, which tournament were they at? Just curious. I was anxious in class so I made some projections in my opinion on PSU, OkST, and tOSU. In the end I did end up putting Nickal and Nevills at 8th. I've also seen how weak 165 is after about the top 5. So guys like Paddock and Rasheed are definitely in contention for the points up for grabs.
 
Been watching Sammy since 8th grade. Majority of pins which set a H.S. record were not from throws but rather TDs, breaking kids down, turning with bar arm, putting his heaviness on their face. He will be a monster, hopefully this year, but if not in years to come. Go Sammy !
 
Cholley, I was not aware of the wins by Nevills over #8 and #11, which tournament were they at? Just curious. I was anxious in class so I made some projections in my opinion on PSU, OkST, and tOSU. In the end I did end up putting Nickal and Nevills at 8th. I've also seen how weak 165 is after about the top 5. So guys like Paddock and Rasheed are definitely in contention for the points up for grabs.

Both were at the Scuffle. Riley Shaw of Cleveland State is the 8th highest returning heavy and Daniel DeJournette of Appalachian State is 11th (based on Flo's end of the year rankings). The weight class is really clearing out. Six of last year's top 10 heavies are gone, either because of graduation or Olympic red shirt.
 
Based on a combination of Flo's and wrestlestat's rankings (Flo only goes through 165 right now), the race looks like this:

1st - PSU
125 Megaludis 2nd (wrestlestats has him at 10th, which is too low, I'm going with 2nd) (18)
133 Conaway 5th-12th (I'm going with 6th) (10)
141 Gulibon 2nd (18)
149 Retherford 2nd-8th (I'm going with 2nd) (18)
157 Jason Nolf 5th-7th (I'm going with 6th) (10)
165 Hammond R12 (3)
174 Nickal R12 (3)
184 McCutcheon R12 (3)
197 McIntosh 1st (thanks, Snyder) (24)
285 Nevills R12 (3)
Total: 110
Complain all you want about Flo's rankings, but subtract 10 team points and they're still in the lead.

2nd - OKST
125 Klimara 6th-7th (9)
133 Wayne-Harding (0)
141 Heil 1st-6th (I'm going 4th) (14)
149 Collica 7th (8.5)
157 Marsteller R12 (3)
165 Dieringer 1st (24)
174 Crutchmer 1st (24)
184 Boyd R12 (3)
197 Schafer (0)
285 Marsden 6th (10)
Total: 95.5
Two champs and a few scattered AAs = big points.

3rd - Iowa
125 Gilman 3rd (16.5)
133 Clark 2nd (18)
141 Grothus R12 (3)
149 Sorensen 2nd-3rd (I'm going with 3rd) (16.5)
157 Cooper/Rhoads (0)
165 Paddock (0)
174 Meyer 6th (10)
184 Brooks R12 (3)
197 Burak 4th (14)
285 Stoll (0)
Total: 81
Grothus is a wild card, but even if he's 4th, that's 11 more points, which still puts us in 3rd. Our lineups of late look like the Iowa lineups of the 80s and 90s minus the 2-3 champs (substitute Joe Williams, Marty Kistler, and Lou Banach at 157, 165, and 285 and we're back where we should be.) Until we put multiple champs in the lineup, this is what our future looks like.

4th - tOSU
125 Tomasello 1st (24)
133 DiJulius 7th-11th (going with 8th) (6)
141 Hayes (0)
149 Stieber R12 (3)
157 M Jordan (not ranked by Flo, 19th by wrestlestats, but he was 27-2 as a redshirt. I'm putting him R12) (3)
165 B Jordan 2nd (18)
174 Martin 14th-15th (2)
184 Courts 6th-7th( 9)
197 Martin (0)
285 Haines/Tavanello (Haines not ranked, Tavanello 18th, both too low, I'm going R12) (3)
Total: 68
A lot depends on the new kids, but I think this is reasonable within 10 points, which doesn't pass anyone ahead of them.

Don't kill the messenger. This is not the way I want it to play out either.

PSU fan here, but I'm not buying Gulibon at #2 without considerably more objective evidence. First, he's moving up a weight class to 141 and to some (myself included) he never seemed especially big or jacked at 133. Maybe he's grown a bit, but that's still one thing. Second, while he had some good wins last season, there were too many (several) instances where he found a way to lose a close match near the end. Giving up a late TD, escape, stalling point, whatever, and probably more mental than being physically gassed (though the two may well be related). He's capable of turning that around, but I need to see it first before I put him in the top 5 at a higher weight class.
 
PSU fan here, but I'm not buying Gulibon at #2 without considerably more objective evidence. First, he's moving up a weight class to 141 and to some (myself included) he never seemed especially big or jacked at 133. Maybe he's grown a bit, but that's still one thing. Second, while he had some good wins last season, there were too many (several) instances where he found a way to lose a close match near the end. Giving up a late TD, escape, stalling point, whatever, and probably more mental than being physically gassed (though the two may well be related). He's capable of turning that around, but I need to see it first before I put him in the top 5 at a higher weight class.

I like JG a lot...wish we could have seen more Clark/Guilbon matches. The only reason I was against him being ranked top 3 is because there are guys coming back that already AA'd at the weight. If it were Brewer that decided to move up, perhaps I'd feel differently because he dominated at 133. Jimmy is certainly capable of making a deep run unfortunately (getting to say that about a lot of your guys). Moving up can be tough but it has the benefit of less fading. We saw a lot of that from JG in his first year but he managed that a lot better the next year. With less to cut, it may really help him in the long run. Psychologically, the weight monster lessens a bit and one can start focusing extra time on technique vs cutting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RoarLions1
I like what I am seeing but am amazed people see PSU as having a clear path with no issues and Iowa needs God to come down from heaven for Iowa to place in the top 5. Such crap.
PSU had some unreal luck and a perfect storm of recruiting and all the sudden they are immune to the issues that can plague everyone else? Some of you can, 6 months out, see PSU owning the NCAA but Iowa has to have divine intervention? some of you need a reality check and I guess you will have to see Cael go through what the rest go through. He has no shoe in champions on the level of IMar or Daringer. Yes, he has 3 real tough guys but Zain has not won a title. Nico has not won a title. But some of you see them as champs because they came close or did well in freestyle? By that logic Clark is a shoe in. Three waits have monsters who will have to be beat for someone else to win that weight. the other seven will have to be wrestled.
Give Iowa the same benefit of the doubt you give PSU and the race tightens up quick.
Gilman is a stud.
Clark is a stud.
If Grothus gets his weight under control, he is a stud.
Sorenson is a stud.
Brooks is a stud
Burak is a stud.
We have strong talent at the other 4 weights. Iowa gets its shit together just a little and they can crush the other teams.
At this point, last year means crap. Our guys have improved and are coming off a 2nd place season. Of the stud list above I have spoken personally to 5 of them and they are hungry. The team is hungry, Brands is sick of not being a champion. they all came close and it pissed them off.
Get ready PSU lovers and Iowa haters. Iowa wants to change the game. Give Iowa the same "objectivity" you give PSU. Or.....just sit back and see that pressure, injuries and bad luck can hit happy go lucky fun time PSU just like everyone else.
So sick of PSU love it just makes me want to strangle a mountain goat and eat its young.
AHHHHHHGGGGGGGG!
 
I'm on your side, 255, but not sure if you are just venting or giving a pep talk or really believe everyone's rankings are way out of whack--or a little of all three. If the latter, show your numbers. (I agree with those who think Gulibon is too high, btw.)

The thing you said that I most agree with is "Iowa gets its shit together just a little and they can crush the other teams." LaxHawk's predictions were just a place or two higher for each Hawk than what the rankings predict, and it netted over 120 points. NCAAs are there for the taking. They've always been there for the taking.

I want to agree with you that because we didn't win last year, we're mad and hungry that'll be the difference. But I don't buy that argument until I see evidence of it. Weren't we hungry in 2011? 2012? 2013? 2014? 2015? Everybody's hungry.

I also don't buy the argument that Penn State won four titles because they were lucky and had no injuries. They won it with two of their stud recruits (Altons) injured. Ohio State won it with Hunter injured. Look at Flo's top 20 P4P college wrestlers from the end of last season: there are no Iowa wrestlers in it. That's why we didn't win.

Your original post asked what it would take for Iowa to win NCAAs. LaxHawk answered that and showed how it was mathematically possible. I agree--it's mathematically possible, and that's what it will take, and I hope it happens.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PapaBearSLIM
I like to look at the top 3-4 teams and how their studs match up by weights. Is there any cannibalizationnth taking place ie. 174 and 197 last year. Or is there any opportunities to score ie. 141 and 184 last year. IMO, Meyer and Brooks have to place high (top 3) for us to have a serious shot at winning

I can't wrap my thoughts around Grothus atm. I need to see him in 141 action. But any pts there is welcome. High potential at nationals for sure.....but I can also see him easily going 0-2 or 1-2 with his style
 
I like what I am seeing but am amazed people see PSU as having a clear path with no issues and Iowa needs God to come down from heaven for Iowa to place in the top 5. Such crap.
PSU had some unreal luck and a perfect storm of recruiting and all the sudden they are immune to the issues that can plague everyone else? Some of you can, 6 months out, see PSU owning the NCAA but Iowa has to have divine intervention? some of you need a reality check and I guess you will have to see Cael go through what the rest go through. He has no shoe in champions on the level of IMar or Daringer. Yes, he has 3 real tough guys but Zain has not won a title. Nico has not won a title. But some of you see them as champs because they came close or did well in freestyle? By that logic Clark is a shoe in. Three waits have monsters who will have to be beat for someone else to win that weight. the other seven will have to be wrestled.
Give Iowa the same benefit of the doubt you give PSU and the race tightens up quick.
Gilman is a stud.
Clark is a stud.
If Grothus gets his weight under control, he is a stud.
Sorenson is a stud.
Brooks is a stud
Burak is a stud.
We have strong talent at the other 4 weights. Iowa gets its shit together just a little and they can crush the other teams.
At this point, last year means crap. Our guys have improved and are coming off a 2nd place season. Of the stud list above I have spoken personally to 5 of them and they are hungry. The team is hungry, Brands is sick of not being a champion. they all came close and it pissed them off.
Get ready PSU lovers and Iowa haters. Iowa wants to change the game. Give Iowa the same "objectivity" you give PSU. Or.....just sit back and see that pressure, injuries and bad luck can hit happy go lucky fun time PSU just like everyone else.
So sick of PSU love it just makes me want to strangle a mountain goat and eat its young.
AHHHHHHGGGGGGGG!

If everybody wrestles as expected, PSU has 9 or 10 guys in the R12, and Iowa has 6 or 7 guys in the R12. Neither team has prohibitive favorites as Champions, so the advantage goes to the team with the most guys expected to score meaningful points. Which makes PSU is the clear favorite. Combined with the results we've seen the last five seasons, it's pretty easy to understand that most consider Iowa to be a long shot. And that's before we consider OSU.

It won't take an act of God, but it would take every Iowa wrestler performing near their maximum, and a couple of PSU guys to stumble. We've seen little of either of those recently.
 
Well said, art. PSU has more margin for error, which usually translates into a team championship. Iowa has won a number of national team titles when they weren't the favorite, but not recently. Most teams have a couple of guys stumble unexpectedly. It's rare that every guy from a particular program has a good tournament. Assuming every top team has roughly the same number of disappointing individual performances, the team with the most guys with potential for deep runs takes home the title.

This is where Brody comes in. If he has a strong season at 141 and earns a high seed at Nationals, that's one more potential big point-scorer for the Hawks and a little more margin for error. To a lesser degree, this is also where 157, Paddock, and Stoll come in. We're likely to need some production from one of those three weights. Hopefully Burke excels down a weight from last season, someone emerges as a point-scorer at 165, and Sam hits the ground running.

Still far too early to have much of a feel for our chances at a national team title, but we need to increase our margin for error somewhere in the lineup -- preferably at 141, 157, 165, AND 285.
 
Last edited:
I'm on your side, 255, but not sure if you are just venting or giving a pep talk or really believe everyone's rankings are way out of whack--or a little of all three. If the latter, show your numbers. (I agree with those who think Gulibon is too high, btw.)

The thing you said that I most agree with is "Iowa gets its shit together just a little and they can crush the other teams." LaxHawk's predictions were just a place or two higher for each Hawk than what the rankings predict, and it netted over 120 points. NCAAs are there for the taking. They've always been there for the taking.

I want to agree with you that because we didn't win last year, we're mad and hungry that'll be the difference. But I don't buy that argument until I see evidence of it. Weren't we hungry in 2011? 2012? 2013? 2014? 2015? Everybody's hungry.

I also don't buy the argument that Penn State won four titles because they were lucky and had no injuries. They won it with two of their stud recruits (Altons) injured. Ohio State won it with Hunter injured. Look at Flo's top 20 P4P college wrestlers from the end of last season: there are no Iowa wrestlers in it. That's why we didn't win.

Your original post asked what it would take for Iowa to win NCAAs. LaxHawk answered that and showed how it was mathematically possible. I agree--it's mathematically possible, and that's what it will take, and I hope it happens.


Maybe a touch of all the above.
I don't think the rankings are way out of whack. I think a lot of favor is given specifically to PSU.

PSU won the NCAA's in large part with 2 guys who scored huge team points consistently which is not common. Each year they had some fortune that pushed them over the top. I have seen you write on this. None of it takes away from them or what they did. They took advantage of what they had and executed.

My original question was how do they win and it kinda turned into why they will lose. The data presented give PSU 100% accuracy of rankings or how they will over achieve rankings and Iowa is over ranked. Not all comments were like that but enough.

As for hungry. We like to think we are always hungry and that for the last 5 years we were. My comment really centers around coming so close to it, closer than in the previous 4 years and missing again. From the communications I have had with the coaches and some wrestlers, that kind of kissing your sister is a pisser. Much like Gable had to revamp the program in the late 80's to remove the entitlement mindset back to a work mindset, I can see the team now making a turn like that. We will see. All that really has to happen is more aggressive attacking on the feet. Change and execute that aspect, how will our results change? Been saying it for years yes, but....?

I like the posts that present a plan to win. Even the data against Iowa is well thought out but my OPINION is it gives too much benefit of the doubt to PSU.
 
Been watching Sammy since 8th grade. Majority of pins which set a H.S. record were not from throws but rather TDs, breaking kids down, turning with bar arm, putting his heaviness on their face. He will be a monster, hopefully this year, but if not in years to come. Go Sammy !

That actually disappoints me. I had assumed he threw a lot of guys right to their back, which is something a lesser wrestler can pull-off against a good wrestler and was why I thought he could pull-off some bonus points at Nationals even if he doesn't make R12. But I don't see him putting anybody flat and turning them at Nationals.
 
I'm on your side, 255, but not sure if you are just venting or giving a pep talk or really believe everyone's rankings are way out of whack--or a little of all three. If the latter, show your numbers. (I agree with those who think Gulibon is too high, btw.)

The thing you said that I most agree with is "Iowa gets its shit together just a little and they can crush the other teams." LaxHawk's predictions were just a place or two higher for each Hawk than what the rankings predict, and it netted over 120 points. NCAAs are there for the taking. They've always been there for the taking.

I want to agree with you that because we didn't win last year, we're mad and hungry that'll be the difference. But I don't buy that argument until I see evidence of it. Weren't we hungry in 2011? 2012? 2013? 2014? 2015? Everybody's hungry.

I also don't buy the argument that Penn State won four titles because they were lucky and had no injuries. They won it with two of their stud recruits (Altons) injured. Ohio State won it with Hunter injured. Look at Flo's top 20 P4P college wrestlers from the end of last season: there are no Iowa wrestlers in it. That's why we didn't win.

Your original post asked what it would take for Iowa to win NCAAs. LaxHawk answered that and showed how it was mathematically possible. I agree--it's mathematically possible, and that's what it will take, and I hope it happens.
Penn State was pretty fortunate that Cael inherited Ed Ruth and Wright. They also needed the points from Andrew Long. On a side note, Sammy Brooks will be wrestling Saturday night if he is healthy going into nationals.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: andegre
. . . Iowa gets its shit together just a little and they can crush the other teams.
At this point, last year means crap. Our guys have improved and are coming off a 2nd place season. Of the stud list above I have spoken personally to 5 of them and they are hungry. The team is hungry, Brands is sick of not being a champion. they all came close and it pissed them off.
Get ready PSU lovers and Iowa haters. Iowa wants to change the game. Give Iowa the same "objectivity" you give PSU. Or.....just sit back and see that pressure, injuries and bad luck can hit happy go lucky fun time PSU just like everyone else.
So sick of PSU love it just makes me want to strangle a mountain goat and eat its young.
AHHHHHHGGGGGGGG!

I'm all with you here, but some Iowa wrestlers need to lose the notion that one takedown wins a match. This approach, in addition to being unwatchable, is a strategy for losing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jaybird319
Not that I don't appreciate their contributions but the graduating SR class was generally the ones who were critiqued on this board for lack of offense and boring matches.. Dziewa, Moore, Evans. Gilman, Sorensen, and Brooks closed up a few times but i thought were on the offense more than not last year. And in general I like the mindset of the upperclassmen on this team now. Gilman, Clark, Grothus, Meyer, Brooks, Burak - I think they provide good leadership and set a good example and hopefully new tone for this team. Sorensen is probably in a role of example leadership too, he doesn't strike me as a very vocal leader, but I could be wrong.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT