Procedure call missed on MSU winning touchdown last night

[dekhawk]

First Sparty was the better team in the second half last night, they ran the ball down Iowa's throat.

Somebody posted a gif/ video last night that showed a false start on the MSU fullback on the winning touchdown play. I watched it and in fact the MSU O lineman who had moved to fullback position for that play flinched to the left before the snap, the Iowa Linebackers started that way and the play went the other way for the TD. I am trying to find that video but it appears to have been removed. Does anybody have that? See the attached web site.

http://www.diehardsport.com/college...-false-start-on-msus-game-winning-td-vs-iowa/

 

[ih8iast8]

Games over, we lost. Move on.

 

[dekhawk]

Games over, we lost. Move on.

I agree, I need this for a bet with a buddy.. Not going to change game outcome, important to my wallet.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

There a minor flinch, but remember that people in the backfield can motion/move. It only matters if they simulate the snap or move "forward" in their motion.

It didn't cost Iowa nothing, they still were there, their RB made a great play. The only complaint I had was, on the 4th down option I wish our safety would of made Cook pitch it. Come up and lay the wood and force him to pitch it backwards (my buddy said the RB would of gotten in, so it wouldn't of mattered). But I just thought if you get him to pitch it, there could of been a fumble.

Should of Would, Could of, that was a GREAT GAME.

 

[BigHawksFan]

I agree, I need this for a bet with a buddy.. Not going to change game outcome, important to my wallet.

Was the bet "I bet Iowa/MSU will win", or "I bet there will be a non-called penalty on the last play"? Because if it's the latter, I would understand. That being said, I would be interested in seeing this. I have the last part of the game DVRed, so I'll go back and look for this.

 

[BulliesOfTheBigTen]

For the record, OP is not lying. There was a Vine depicting it but the upload was deleted for some reason.

 

[dekhawk]

For the record, OP is not lying. There was a Vine depicting it but the upload was deleted for some reason.

It appeared to be a view from above the play. I wondered why it was deleted.. In slow mo its obvious its a false start, not sure in real game speed. I have not watched that yet..

 

[Oldgold51]

The tackling of Jewell on the play was worse.

 

[Oldgold51]

Here is the maddening last play.

Shows flinch (watch our LBs react by stepping in the wrong direction), Jewell (43) being tackled and Spears (49) unfortunate whiff.

http://www.snappytv.com/tc/1097367/421727

This expressed, it was 60 minute game that afforded us many opportunities that we failed to seize. I get that.

 

[ih8iast8]

If he flinched at all that's a no call.

Nothing to see here folks, move on! WE ARE GOING TO THE MUTHERFING ROSE BOWL!

 

[yerpHAWK]

There a minor flinch, but remember that people in the backfield can motion/move. It only matters if they simulate the snap or move "forward" in their motion.

It didn't cost Iowa nothing, they still were there, their RB made a great play. The only complaint I had was, on the 4th down option I wish our safety would of made Cook pitch it. Come up and lay the wood and force him to pitch it backwards (my buddy said the RB would of gotten in, so it wouldn't of mattered). But I just thought if you get him to pitch it, there could of been a fumble.

Should of Would, Could of, that was a GREAT GAME.

In that situation you gotta make him give it up, like in basketball when it's a 2 on 1 you stop ball, even though it will likely be a score. Can't be as worried about the pitch man inside the 20. Especially in that situation where it should have been go for the stop on that play or if they would have scored that wouldn't have been such a bad thing since they were just running out the clock at that point.

 

[bigfridaynite]

Jewell did get tackle big time but that the only thing I saw .the whiff by spears was kind of bad

 

[UNIowaHawk]

The tackling of Jewell on the play was worse.

Correct. He was there to make the stop at the 3 or 4. Blatantly tackled from behind. Still bitter, but the Rose softened the blow.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

There a minor flinch, but remember that people in the backfield can motion/move. It only matters if they simulate the snap or move "forward" in their motion.

It didn't cost Iowa nothing, they still were there, their RB made a great play. The only complaint I had was, on the 4th down option I wish our safety would of made Cook pitch it. Come up and lay the wood and force him to pitch it backwards (my buddy said the RB would of gotten in, so it wouldn't of mattered). But I just thought if you get him to pitch it, there could of been a fumble.

Should of Would, Could of, that was a GREAT GAME.

It was illegal motion by the O-lineman lined up in the backfield. Would have been great had it been called, as it would have given MSU 3rd and goal from about the 8, but there were missed calls both ways throughout the game and MSU did get some costly penalties called on them that negated significant gains. Definitely water under the bridge, and time to move on, but that illegal motion by the fullback would and should have been called, had the refs noticed. Overall, I thought the officiating was pretty good. The refs were on top of most of the action, caught a push-off by a MSU TE and called the MSU pick play correctly, among other good calls. Thought the officials were consistent, too. Could have used a call or two during that goal line stand, but as a wise and very successful Iowa coach once said, "That's football."

 

[HawkBlocked]

After watching that replay, I'm now concerned about Lomax's knee. He takes a pretty good dose of friendly fire at the end. Did Lomax come out of that OK?

 

[SoonerBeAHawk]

When I saw the gif last night I was like meh, slight twitch. Not a big deal.

But now I went and re-watched the play by Jewell and he was blatantly tackled. Jewell goes to tackle the rb and he can't even extend his arms toward the runner because the MSU scumbag has him wrapped up around the chest and proceeds to take him to the ground.

Wow.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

When I saw the gif last night I was like meh, slight twitch. Not a big deal.

But now I went and re-watched the play by Jewell and he was blatantly tackled. Jewell goes to tackle the rb and he can't even extend his arms toward the runner because the MSU scumbag has him wrapped up around the chest and proceeds to take him to the ground.

Wow.

I missed that hold on Jewell. Sounds like it should have been called. Certainly could have used the call there. At this point, I'll probably never see it, as I don't think I'll ever be able to bring myself to re-watch any part of that game.

 

[SoonerBeAHawk]

I missed that hold on Jewell. Sounds like it should have been called. Certainly could have used the call there. At this point, I'll probably never see it, as I don't think I'll ever be able to bring myself to re-watch any part of that game.

lol, I didn't know if I would ever be able to re-watch the game either. In fact, I almost deleted it immediately when time expired.

Otoh, Iowa did so many good things in that game. To be so close ... darn.

 

[thos]

First Sparty was the better team in the second half last night, they ran the ball down Iowa's throat.

Somebody posted a gif/ video last night that showed a false start on the MSU fullback on the winning touchdown play. I watched it and in fact the MSU O lineman who had moved to fullback position for that play flinched to the left before the snap, the Iowa Linebackers started that way and the play went the other way for the TD. I am trying to find that video but it appears to have been removed. Does anybody have that? See the attached web site.

http://www.diehardsport.com/college...-false-start-on-msus-game-winning-td-vs-iowa/

I am a Spartan fan. I saw it too. Ever so slightly jack Allen moved a millisecond before the snap. The only view I have seen where you can tell was a replay after the game with a view from above. I told my wife immediately "Allen moved!" It was very very close a I can see how it was missed in that situation.

 

[ahawkfan91]

Why was Spears even on the field in that situation? Has he even taken one other defensive snap this year in non-garbage time?

 

[taco2212]

Why was Spears even on the field in that situation? Has he even taken one other defensive snap this year in non-garbage time?

Once Ott went down Spears has taken his place in full goal line situations and I believe is part of the FG/PAT block teams.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Not going to call out Spears...if you watch he showed tremendous hustle to get up off his block and get allthe way down the line to even get into position to be in on the play. Pretty unfair ripping on him...

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Spears made a GREAT hustle play, in fact. He came out of nowhere like a torpedo and was headed straight for the ball. Somehow, Scott saw him coming and lifted the ball over his helmet as he came whizzing by. Otherwise, he very possibly could have jarred the ball loose before it crossed the plane of the goal line. Of course, everything happened in a split second, but in hindsight, I was wishing Spears had come in with his head up looking to bat the ball away as Scott held it out -- very easily could have forced a fumble there. Easy for me to say in hindsight. Whatever the case, that was great hustle by Spears and just a fantastic heads-up play by Scott. Anyone ripping on any of our guys for the all-out effort they gave last night should be embarrassed, frankly.

 

[gotaloadon]

Crazy what could have been. Aren't people jailed on the streets for what happened to Jewel. Blatant penalty out in the open and no flag? WTF. I know, move on. That's just out of line bad.

 

[David1979]

There a minor flinch, but remember that people in the backfield can motion/move. It only matters if they simulate the snap or move "forward" in their motion.

It didn't cost Iowa nothing, they still were there, their RB made a great play. The only complaint I had was, on the 4th down option I wish our safety would of made Cook pitch it. Come up and lay the wood and force him to pitch it backwards (my buddy said the RB would of gotten in, so it wouldn't of mattered). But I just thought if you get him to pitch it, there could of been a fumble.

Should of Would, Could of, that was a GREAT GAME.

That is what I was thinking as well. He went too hard at the RB in stead of slowing the QB down for a second even. If he went after the QB fully who knows what would have happened like you said could have been a fumble, could have been a TD or could have stopped him. That was to King's side and he is a great tackler so would have been interesting.

The last play there were so many close calls. Jewell getting him in the backfield was close and he might of if the Olineman hadn't tackled him. The RBs knee probably would have been down as well if Niemann's arms would have been under his legs and then Spears coming in to get the ball was a miss as well.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

That is what I was thinking as well. He went too hard at the RB in stead of slowing the QB down for a second even. If he went after the QB fully who knows what would have happened like you said could have been a fumble, could have been a TD or could have stopped him. That was to King's side and he is a great tackler so would have been interesting.

The last play there were so many close calls. Jewell getting him in the backfield was close and he might of if the Olineman hadn't tackled him. The RBs knee probably would have been down as well if Niemann's arms would have been under his legs and then Spears coming in to get the ball was a miss as well.

I was talking to an older Spartan fan after the game and his quote to me was, "this is our year." He kept going on how they have won so many close games and he thought finally against Iowa it was going to come crashing down. He said on a normal year, MSU would lose at least 2 of their 3 close games this year (@UM, @OSU, vs IA). He said whatever it is, it keeps working. They have been so close to losing and each time they come out on top. He was very positive about Iowa and kept on saying that he wished there was an 8 team playoff because he thought Iowa, MSU, and OSU would all win their games. Said this is some of the best football he has seen.

 

[SpartanJD]

The game seemed poorly reffed. I am in disbelief that the crew that did the MSU/UM and MSU/Neb games did this title game.

Both of those games were really poorly reffed. Unbelievable.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

The game seemed poorly reffed. I am in disbelief that the crew that did the MSU/UM and MSU/Neb games did this title game.

Both of those games were really poorly reffed. Unbelievable.

I thought they did a great job. They didn't cost anyone the game and they did as good of job as any crew. They called the obvious plays and let some of the "ticky tack" stuff go. Sorry but if you throw too many flags, people get upset. You throw too few and people get upset. How can the officials win? They can't?

I thought they did a great job and had ZERO outcome on the game. Both teams played hard and MSU made 1-2 more plays than Iowa. It was a great game by both teams/fans and it was an electric atmosphere.

I bet you will see that crew in a major bowl this year. They are pretty good at what they do. I wouldn't be surprised in they get 1 of the national semifinals or one of the New Year 6 bowls.

 

[HawkBlocked]

Back to my question above, is Lomax able to walk after that play, or did he blow his knee out? It looked bad on the replay.

 

[ichawk24]

Lomax spoke to reporters after the game, which wouldn't happen if he blew his knee out.

 

[Cushawk]

I thought they did a great job. They didn't cost anyone the game and they did as good of job as any crew. They called the obvious plays and let some of the "ticky tack" stuff go. Sorry but if you throw too many flags, people get upset. You throw too few and people get upset. How can the officials win? They can't?

I thought they did a great job and had ZERO outcome on the game. Both teams played hard and MSU made 1-2 more plays than Iowa. It was a great game by both teams/fans and it was an electric atmosphere.

I bet you will see that crew in a major bowl this year. They are pretty good at what they do. I wouldn't be surprised in they get 1 of the national semifinals or one of the New Year 6 bowls.

I don't usually complain about officials because 1) They are human 2) you could call holding or pass interference on virtually any play. Having said that, they called a pretty clean game for the first 58 minutes. But missed 2 very obvious calls in the last 2 minutes. The first call was on the 4th and 2 option play by Cook. Couple posters here said they wanted Lomax to take Cook rather than the pitch guy. His job was the pitch man and he did it well. The QB belonged to Cole Fischer. Unfortunately he didn't make it there because he got chopped blocked. Watch the replay. One guy is hitting him high at the shoulder pads and another lineman comes and takes out his legs. If that is called correctly, MSU now has 4th and 17 at the Iowa 19 yard line with about 1:50 left on the clock. I like our odds on that one.

The 2nd missed call was on the TD. Jewell would have hit the RB at about the 3 yard line with 3 other Hawks arriving a split second later. But #75 literally grabs him around the chest (FROM BEHIND) and tackles him.

Yes, sometimes officials miss calls. But both of these happened right in front of the ball carrier! How could the officials miss these 2 obvious calls???

Rant over. I am very proud of this Iowa team and think we will beat Stanford in the Rose Bowl. I also think MSU will beat up Alabama. No shame in losing to a very good MSU team. Also, hearing the MSU players talk about Iowa and how tough and physical we were after the game made it hard for me to hate them. Much respect to the Hawks.

 

[ahawkfan91]

I thought they did a great job. They didn't cost anyone the game and they did as good of job as any crew. They called the obvious plays and let some of the "ticky tack" stuff go. Sorry but if you throw too many flags, people get upset. You throw too few and people get upset. How can the officials win? They can't?

I thought they did a great job and had ZERO outcome on the game. Both teams played hard and MSU made 1-2 more plays than Iowa. It was a great game by both teams/fans and it was an electric atmosphere.

I bet you will see that crew in a major bowl this year. They are pretty good at what they do. I wouldn't be surprised in they get 1 of the national semifinals or one of the New Year 6 bowls.

They did the national championship a few years ago. I think it was the Auburn/FSU game. They have been considered the top B1G crew for awhile. They also worked the Iowa/Minnesota game this year and the Iowa/OSU night game in 2006.

 

[WORTHYWISH]

You can watch the whole thing here. Fast forward to the last TD play. Really can't understand how a ref misses that obvious hold/tackle by #75. Wow wtf?

 

[SoonerBeAHawk]

You can watch the whole thing here. Fast forward to the last TD play. Really can't understand how a ref misses that obvious hold/tackle by #75. Wow wtf?

View embedded media

Yep.

Freeze it at the 1:59:53 mark, or there about, and you can see Jewell's right arm wrapped up by #75.

Total horsesh!t non-call.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

So would people be in favor of allowing coaches to challenge non called penalties? meanings if coaches believe there was a penalty committed, would you favor allowing them to be able to challenge?

Would you favor a challenge on a penalty called? Lets say a penalty is committed and its not a penalty, would you favor more stoppage and challenges?

Do you thin KF would of done that? I highly doubt it. Even with the hold, Iowa still had both the 4 & 2 and the TD run stuffed. Just couldn't finish the plays (i.e Fatigue had set in, they were on the field for almost 20+ min in the 2nd half). MSU players made great plays on both those runs. Sorry but that's a lot of time for the defense to be on the field.

Sorry but in a championship game, you let the players decide the game. I remember watching the National Championship game a few years ago and there was about 10-15 Pass Interference calls that should of been made, but were not. The officials were pretty balanced in letting them play. IDK what the officials were looking at, but they were set on letting them play. I mean one time the announcers even came out and stated "that looked like PI".

 

[Oldgold51]

[QUOTE="DavenportHawk8, post:
Sorry but in a championship game, you let the players decide the game..[/QUOTE]

No, in any game, you let the players decide the game PLAYING WITHIN THE RULES.

Look, we are not talking about some ticky-tacky garden variety holding in the scrum along the line of scrimmage. This concerns a flagrant hold [tackle], out in the open, at the point of attack that materially impacted the decisive play of the game. The refs did not miss it; rather, they chose not to call it because it was late in the game, and like you, these refs do not think they should be impacting the game at this juncture.

Like you, their logic is flawed. Non-calls impact a game just as much as a call. As such, by not enforcing the rules, they are doing the very thing they seek to avoid: impacting the outcome of the game.What occurred on the play in question demonstrates this. This officiating crew notoriously pulled the same stunt in the Michigan State / Nebraska football game this year.

Games should be called the same way on the last play as the first play.

Some teams, like Michigan State, in both football and basketball {Michigan State's rough-house basketball late in games is the stuff of legend], count on the refs swallowing their whistles late in games and play accordingly. It is not right. A penalty is a penalty whenever it occurs in a game.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

[QUOTE="DavenportHawk8, post:
Sorry but in a championship game, you let the players decide the game..

No, in any game, you let the players decide the game PLAYING WITHIN THE RULES.

Look, we are not talking about some ticky-tacky garden variety holding in the scrum along the line of scrimmage. This concerns a flagrant hold [tackle], out in the open, at the point of attack that materially impacted the decisive play of the game. The refs did not miss it; rather, they chose not to call it because it was late in the game, and like you, these refs do not think they should be impacting the game at this juncture.

Like you, their logic is flawed. Non-calls impact a game just as much as a call. As such, by not enforcing the rules, they are doing the very thing they seek to avoid: impacting the outcome of the game.What occurred on the play in question demonstrates this. This officiating crew notoriously pulled the same stunt in the Michigan State / Nebraska football game this year.

Games should be called the same way on the last play as the first play.

Some teams, like Michigan State, in both football and basketball {Michigan State's rough-house basketball late in games is the stuff of legend], count on the refs swallowing their whistles late in games and play accordingly. It is not right. A penalty is a penalty whenever it occurs in a game.[/QUOTE]

Good Luck telling that any Div 1 official. They will laugh in your face. Was it penalty on the Packers/Seahawks game a few years back on the Hail Mary? Nope. Face it, there is a human element in college football. People make mistakes and these officials called a great game. I did not hear one person complain about the officiating all game in our section. After the game nothing was said. Now everyone goes and watching the tapes and thinks Iowa got screwed? Sour grapes to me. These officials did nothing to lose Iowa the game. Iowa lost the game because their offense couldn't control the ball in the 2nd half. No officials can dictate a 50+ to 15 plays run in the 2nd half. Sorry but that is just a good offense keeping the chains moving and another offense choking.

Well this crew must of done something right to get to the Big 10 Championship? I don't think Delaney would pick the worst crew to do the game? I am pretty sure they get rated like everyone else and I am pretty sure if they messed up the Nebbie/MSU game so bad, I don't think they would of been there? Maybe you know something I don't, but it seems like they are the top crew in the Big 10.

 

[Oldgold51]

I believe games should be officiated in the same manner for the entire 60 minutes. You apparently believe there should be one set of rules for 58 minutes and another set of rules for the last 2 minutes. That makes no sense to me, but, if so, put it in the rule book so all teams can play accordingly.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

I believe games should be officiated in the same manner for the entire 60 minutes. You apparently believe there should be one set of rules for 58 minutes and another set of rules for the last 2 minutes. That makes no sense to me, but, if so, put it in the rule book so all teams can play accordingly.

All I am saying is if you have officiated before you know the situation. A tight ballgame and you are going to penalize 1 team, you better make sure its a "penalty." It was like the block in the back on warren holloways TD catch in the Cap 1 bowl? Every Iowa fan knows there was a Block in the Back, but if your not 100%, you do not throw that flag. Im sure those officials could of called it, but I can guarantee you that the guys saw it, but didn't know 100% sure if it was a Block in the Back? Therefore no flag, Iowa wins the game.

The Leg Whip on the Iowa TD @ MSU a few years ago. There is an obvious leg whip on the Weisman TD, but again no official was 100%, so therefore no flag. They let the player decide the outcome of that game.

You do not want to be the guy from the Clemson/UNC game. Throwing a flag for what seemed "like a penalty" because then you get the wrath of everyone, and I can guarantee you that you will probably never ref a major game again.

I realize everyone wants it to be fair and officiated correctly, but boy once those tight games get under 2 minutes, it gets more and more difficult to call penalties. Every single official I have ever known has said the same thing. Don't go fishing for penalties, let the players decide it. Regardless we still had a shot and couldn't finish. Tough Break and hopefully it will leave a chip on the players shoulders for the Rose Bowl.

 

[Oldgold51]

Once again, this would not have been "fishing" for a penalty. It was an egregious violation of the rules. It was on a par with the defensive back grabbing Matt VandeBerg. It was an unambiguous, indisputable and open violation of the rules that materially impacted the play.

Citing other mistakes in this or other games does not excuse this mistake.

It should have been 3rd and goal to go from the 13 yard line with 32 seconds left. From there, Michigan State may or may not have scored. This would have allowed the players to decide the game within the rules. Refs swallowing their whistles during the last 2 minutes of a game rewards teams that violate the rules to gain a competitive advantage.