Provocative Excerpt from People's History of the US

[2facedboonefan]

“In 1635, Maryland Indians responded to the governor’s demand that if any of them killed an Englishman, the guilty one should be delivered up for punishment according to English law. The Indians said:

It is the manner amongst us Indians, that if any such accident happen, wee doe redeeme the life of a man that is so slaine, with a 100 armes length of Beades and since that you are heere strangers, and come into our Country, you should rather conform yourselves to the Customes of our Country, than impose yours upon us. . . .”

Excerpt From: Zinn, Howard. “A People's History of the United States.” HarperCollins. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Seems like there might be lessons in there for both conservatives and liberals.

 

[naturalmwa]

Is the lesson to STFO of other nations? Or is the lesson that this is not our nation? Because that's going to make a difference.

 

[2facedboonefan]

Is the lesson to STFO of other nations? Or is the lesson that this is not our nation? Because that's going to make a difference.

I view it more from a human nature standpoint. All societies develop their own sense of justice and morality. When societies with different customs come into contact with each other, the group that previously exercised hegemony in the region will believe that it has a natural right to continue to do so. We need to think about the consequences of that both positive and negative throughout history. In the Information Age, are there universal cultural principles we can develop to reduce conflict while still maintaining the characteristics that define who we are?

 

[naturalmwa]

I view it more from a human nature standpoint. All societies develop their own sense of justice and morality. When societies with different customs come into contact with each other, the group that previously exercised hegemony in the region will believe that it has a natural right to continue to do so. We need to think about the consequences of that both positive and negative throughout history. In the Information Age, are there universal cultural principles we can develop to reduce conflict while still maintaining the characteristics that define who we are?

In your example, the English wanted to be the new hegemon. Limiting conflict and gaining understanding wasn't the goal as I understand it. I think we already have fairly universal standards of Justice broadly speaking. Even with the English and Indians your example shows they both believed a killer should be punished. If I was to propose a universal value system, it would probably be one based on reciprocity, which many might know as the Golden Rule. If the English want the Indian killer sent to them for English justice, they should send any colonials who kill Indians to the native tribe for their justice.

Now that can get sticky. What if the native war council doesn't deliver what the English would consider fair justice? Is it just to send the colonialist to be burned alive with out the ability to defend himself because that's how the locals do things?

Late night drunk talk is fun.

 

[2facedboonefan]

I'm not sure I have a good answer for all of the particulars, but I think these are really important things that need to be considered. I see the aftermath of World War 2 as sort of a turning point in world history where the West, especially Europe, started to take an honest look at itself and the consequences of some of its actions around the world. Not entirely, of course, but European countries aren't going to war with each other every 20 years anymore and most of the colonies were eventually granted independence.

If you look at where immigrants come from and move to today, it tends to be from countries that were colonized or involved in war to the country that did the colonizing or was a participant in the war. A lot of South Asians have immigrated to the UK, North Africans to France, etc. You could even include Mexicans to the United States considering that the US took about half of Mexico's territory in an imperialistic war. The biggest cultural clashes outside of blatant racism tend to be (mainly in Europe) religious differences and different views on justice, especially concerning women. The vast majority of immigrants are just like any other French or English person, but some in Britain for example have developed councils to try to apply family law in a way that is consistent with both religious and secular law. That might be an example of at least one way to apply reciprocity, but I'm not sure how I feel about it.

This is a really good book. It really shows the "other side" of history and gets you thinking about morality, cause and effect, and that type of thing in a critical way. The more people who can do that with an open mind, the more likely we will be able to tackle some of history's problems that we're still wrestling with today.

 

[2facedboonefan]

Late night drunk talk is fun.

In my state marijuana is legal, which is even better if you ask me. No hangovers and you don't have to go to the bathroom every ten minutes. Someone needs to write a People's History of the War on Drugs.