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Public Housing Nationwide May Be Subject to Smoking Ban

cigaretteman

HB King
May 29, 2001
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What say you conservatives? Good policy for stopping welfare queens (and kings) from frittering away their money on cigarettes and cigars or intrusive, nanny state meddling in individuals' private affairs?

Smoking would be prohibited in public housing homes nationwide under a proposed federal rule announced on Thursday, a move that would affect nearly one million households and open the latest front in the long-running campaign to curb unwanted exposure to secondhand tobacco smoke.

The ban, by the Department of Housing and Urban Development, would also require that common areas and administrative offices on public housing property be smoke-free.

But the restriction on smoking inside dwellings would pose challenges to overburdened public housing agencies, which could face resistance from some residents resentful of losing control of what they can do in their own homes.

“What I do in my apartment should be my problem, long as I pay my rent,” said Gary Smith, 47, a cigarette in hand as he sat outside the door to a building in the Walt Whitman Houses in the Fort Greene section of Brooklyn.

The impact of the prohibition would be felt most heavily by the New York City Housing Authority, which is known as Nycha and houses more than 400,000 people in about 178,000 apartments. Though it is the largest public housing agency in the country, it has lagged behind many of its smaller counterparts in adopting smoke-free policies.

Since the federal government began to press for smoking bans in public housing in 2009, more than 600 agencies encompassing over 200,000 households have voluntarily barred indoor smoking. In moving to require the prohibitions across the country, federal officials say they are acting to protect residents from secondhand smoke, which can travel through walls and under doors; to reduce the risk of fires; and to lower building maintenance costs.

In New York, some luxury apartment buildings have prohibited smoking and have made a smoke-free environment a selling point. But many public housing agencies, including Nycha, are already struggling to maintain their properties and enforce existing rules. A smoking ban could, at least in the short term, add to those burdens.

“It’s a fraught process, because to do it properly you need community buy-in,” said Sunia Zaterman, executive director of the Council of Large Public Housing Authorities. “To do this successfully, it can’t be a top-down edict, because you want people to comply with the policy.”

On Wednesday, at public housing developments in the Bronx, Brooklyn and Manhattan, the proposal was welcomed by some people, but derided by others as an infringement on personal choices.

Mr. Smith, for one, expressed skepticism that a ban could be enforced. “You don’t know what’s going on in people’s apartment,” he said at the Walt Whitman Houses. He added, “What are they going to do, smell your apartment?”

At the Melrose Houses in the Bronx, Lesli Lino, 25, said that no one in her apartment smoked, but that many residents of her building, including a few on her floor, did.

“It’s horrible,” Ms. Lino said of the odor of smoke that often lingered in elevators and hallways. She said the ban would be a “plus to me.”

Shola Olatoye, the chairwoman and chief executive of Nycha, said, “For us, the major issue is our ability to enforce something like this.” Ms. Olatoye said she had yet to see the proposed rule but expected execution and enforcement to be handled by residents as well as by authority employees.

“It should be resident-led,” she said, adding that the Police Department should not be involved.

Smoking, which is already prohibited in the lobbies and hallways of authority buildings, has already caused friction between tenants and police officers, who have a large presence in many housing projects and are expected to watch out not only for crime but also for violations of authority rules.

Ms. Olatoye noted that in a 2012 residents’ survey conducted by the authority, 14 percent of 1,209 respondents said they smoked, 24 percent said at least one member of their household was a smoker and more than 35 percent said their household included a child with asthma or other respiratory problems.

“There’s clearly a need for addressing this issue head-on,” she said. “The question is, how do we do it?”

Smoking rates in the city have been declining, dropping to 13.9 percent of adults last year from 16.1 in 2013, according to the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene. The figure stood at 21.5 percent in 2002, when a city law banning smoking in workplaces, including bars and restaurants, was enacted. But disparities in smoking prevalence persist by education and income levels, health officials say, with higher rates among those having less than a college education and those from lower-income households.

A study by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimated that a nationwide smoke-free public housing policy would result in annual cost savings of about $153 million, including $94 million in health care, $43 million in reduced costs for painting and cleaning smoke-damaged units, and $16 million in averted fire losses.

In their proposal, federal housing officials said that the surgeon general’s office had concluded that there was no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke and that separating smokers and nonsmokers, building ventilation and cleaning the air could not eliminate exposure. That, officials said, could be accomplished only by eliminating smoking from indoor spaces.

“The argument about secondhand smoke is over,” Julián Castro, the federal housing secretary, said in an interview on Wednesday. “It’s harmful, and we believe it’s important that we have an environment that’s healthy in public housing.”

The Council of Large Public Housing Authorities said smoking bans had become more popular with residents over time. One reason some authorities had already moved to adopt such bans, federal officials said, is that as the number of tenants who smoke has dropped, more people have come to expect smoke-free spaces. That has thrust public housing employees into the middle of disputes over secondhand smoke.

For Nycha, which has 328 developments across the city’s five boroughs, the proposal comes amid persistent budget deficits and declining federal subsidies that have prompted an urgent, and sometimes contentious, effort to increase revenue.

The proposed rule would require housing agencies to prohibit lit cigarettes, cigars and pipes in all living units, indoor common areas, administrative offices and all outdoor areas within 25 feet of housing and administrative office buildings. The rule would not apply initially to electronic cigarettes, but federal officials are seeking input about whether to ban them.

Individual housing authorities can be as restrictive as they want, extending the prohibition to areas near playgrounds, for instance, or making their entire grounds smoke-free, officials said.

The prohibition would be included in tenant leases, and violations would be treated like other nuisance violations, which are usually reported by neighbors or employees and are not meant to result in evictions, Mr. Castro said.

“The purpose is to go smoke-free and to have healthier communities,” he said. “My hope is that housing authorities would work with residents to prepare them for this change so that any kind of punitive measures like evictions are avoided at all costs.”

The public will have 60 days to comment on the proposal. Individual housing agencies would have up to 18 months from the effective date of the final rule to adopt and put their smoke-free policies in place after their own periods of public review and meetings with residents.

In the higher reaches of the real estate market, the smoke-free label can carry a premium, according to NYC Smoke-Free at Public Health Solutions, an advocacy and educational group. A recent analysis by StreetEasy, the New York real estate-listings website, for NYC Smoke-Free found that fewer than 4 percent of listed rental apartments were in buildings with smoke-free protections, said Patrick Kwan, the group’s director. But buildings that are smoke-free, the data showed, rented for $1,000 to $1,300 more than comparable units, he said.

“Smoke-free housing is definitely the next frontier in tobacco control efforts, and this is something where we can make an enormous difference for hundreds of thousands of New Yorkers,” he said of the federal proposal.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/12/n...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
 
What say you conservatives? Good policy for stopping welfare queens (and kings) from frittering away their money on cigarettes and cigars or intrusive, nanny state meddling in individuals' private affairs?

Smoking would be prohibited in public housing homes nationwide under a proposed federal rule announced on Thursday, a move that would affect nearly one million households and open the latest front in the long-running campaign to curb unwanted exposure to secondhand tobacco smoke.

The ban, by the Department of Housing and Urban Development, would also require that common areas and administrative offices on public housing property be smoke-free.

But the restriction on smoking inside dwellings would pose challenges to overburdened public housing agencies, which could face resistance from some residents resentful of losing control of what they can do in their own homes.

“What I do in my apartment should be my problem, long as I pay my rent,” said Gary Smith, 47, a cigarette in hand as he sat outside the door to a building in the Walt Whitman Houses in the Fort Greene section of Brooklyn.

The impact of the prohibition would be felt most heavily by the New York City Housing Authority, which is known as Nycha and houses more than 400,000 people in about 178,000 apartments. Though it is the largest public housing agency in the country, it has lagged behind many of its smaller counterparts in adopting smoke-free policies.

Since the federal government began to press for smoking bans in public housing in 2009, more than 600 agencies encompassing over 200,000 households have voluntarily barred indoor smoking. In moving to require the prohibitions across the country, federal officials say they are acting to protect residents from secondhand smoke, which can travel through walls and under doors; to reduce the risk of fires; and to lower building maintenance costs.

In New York, some luxury apartment buildings have prohibited smoking and have made a smoke-free environment a selling point. But many public housing agencies, including Nycha, are already struggling to maintain their properties and enforce existing rules. A smoking ban could, at least in the short term, add to those burdens.

“It’s a fraught process, because to do it properly you need community buy-in,” said Sunia Zaterman, executive director of the Council of Large Public Housing Authorities. “To do this successfully, it can’t be a top-down edict, because you want people to comply with the policy.”

On Wednesday, at public housing developments in the Bronx, Brooklyn and Manhattan, the proposal was welcomed by some people, but derided by others as an infringement on personal choices.

Mr. Smith, for one, expressed skepticism that a ban could be enforced. “You don’t know what’s going on in people’s apartment,” he said at the Walt Whitman Houses. He added, “What are they going to do, smell your apartment?”

At the Melrose Houses in the Bronx, Lesli Lino, 25, said that no one in her apartment smoked, but that many residents of her building, including a few on her floor, did.

“It’s horrible,” Ms. Lino said of the odor of smoke that often lingered in elevators and hallways. She said the ban would be a “plus to me.”

Shola Olatoye, the chairwoman and chief executive of Nycha, said, “For us, the major issue is our ability to enforce something like this.” Ms. Olatoye said she had yet to see the proposed rule but expected execution and enforcement to be handled by residents as well as by authority employees.

“It should be resident-led,” she said, adding that the Police Department should not be involved.

Smoking, which is already prohibited in the lobbies and hallways of authority buildings, has already caused friction between tenants and police officers, who have a large presence in many housing projects and are expected to watch out not only for crime but also for violations of authority rules.

Ms. Olatoye noted that in a 2012 residents’ survey conducted by the authority, 14 percent of 1,209 respondents said they smoked, 24 percent said at least one member of their household was a smoker and more than 35 percent said their household included a child with asthma or other respiratory problems.

“There’s clearly a need for addressing this issue head-on,” she said. “The question is, how do we do it?”

Smoking rates in the city have been declining, dropping to 13.9 percent of adults last year from 16.1 in 2013, according to the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene. The figure stood at 21.5 percent in 2002, when a city law banning smoking in workplaces, including bars and restaurants, was enacted. But disparities in smoking prevalence persist by education and income levels, health officials say, with higher rates among those having less than a college education and those from lower-income households.

A study by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimated that a nationwide smoke-free public housing policy would result in annual cost savings of about $153 million, including $94 million in health care, $43 million in reduced costs for painting and cleaning smoke-damaged units, and $16 million in averted fire losses.

In their proposal, federal housing officials said that the surgeon general’s office had concluded that there was no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke and that separating smokers and nonsmokers, building ventilation and cleaning the air could not eliminate exposure. That, officials said, could be accomplished only by eliminating smoking from indoor spaces.

“The argument about secondhand smoke is over,” Julián Castro, the federal housing secretary, said in an interview on Wednesday. “It’s harmful, and we believe it’s important that we have an environment that’s healthy in public housing.”

The Council of Large Public Housing Authorities said smoking bans had become more popular with residents over time. One reason some authorities had already moved to adopt such bans, federal officials said, is that as the number of tenants who smoke has dropped, more people have come to expect smoke-free spaces. That has thrust public housing employees into the middle of disputes over secondhand smoke.

For Nycha, which has 328 developments across the city’s five boroughs, the proposal comes amid persistent budget deficits and declining federal subsidies that have prompted an urgent, and sometimes contentious, effort to increase revenue.

The proposed rule would require housing agencies to prohibit lit cigarettes, cigars and pipes in all living units, indoor common areas, administrative offices and all outdoor areas within 25 feet of housing and administrative office buildings. The rule would not apply initially to electronic cigarettes, but federal officials are seeking input about whether to ban them.

Individual housing authorities can be as restrictive as they want, extending the prohibition to areas near playgrounds, for instance, or making their entire grounds smoke-free, officials said.

The prohibition would be included in tenant leases, and violations would be treated like other nuisance violations, which are usually reported by neighbors or employees and are not meant to result in evictions, Mr. Castro said.

“The purpose is to go smoke-free and to have healthier communities,” he said. “My hope is that housing authorities would work with residents to prepare them for this change so that any kind of punitive measures like evictions are avoided at all costs.”

The public will have 60 days to comment on the proposal. Individual housing agencies would have up to 18 months from the effective date of the final rule to adopt and put their smoke-free policies in place after their own periods of public review and meetings with residents.

In the higher reaches of the real estate market, the smoke-free label can carry a premium, according to NYC Smoke-Free at Public Health Solutions, an advocacy and educational group. A recent analysis by StreetEasy, the New York real estate-listings website, for NYC Smoke-Free found that fewer than 4 percent of listed rental apartments were in buildings with smoke-free protections, said Patrick Kwan, the group’s director. But buildings that are smoke-free, the data showed, rented for $1,000 to $1,300 more than comparable units, he said.

“Smoke-free housing is definitely the next frontier in tobacco control efforts, and this is something where we can make an enormous difference for hundreds of thousands of New Yorkers,” he said of the federal proposal.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/12/n...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

Put me down for "intrusive, nanny state meddling in individuals' private affairs."

Thanks.

Time for a smoke break.
 
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Seems like an overreach. I would be okay with banning it in common areas and charging tenants who smoke a higher rent to offset the property value loss caused by cigarette smoke.
 
Seems like an overreach. I would be okay with banning it in common areas and charging tenants who smoke a higher rent to offset the property value loss caused by cigarette smoke.

LOL. It has to be worth something in the first place in order for the value to decline.
 
I don't think it's intrusive at all. If you are dependent upon the federal government and other taxpayers for your subsidized home, then you live by the rules they set out.

Why is this 'ok'? Because smoking DOES stink up the property and make it difficult to clean the place out for another tenant. It also increases the fire risk for the rest of the tenants when people fall asleep with a lit cigarette dropping onto a couch or carpeting. If you are in subsidized housing, you are likely also drawing welfare subsidies for food, etc., and if you are reliant on other people's tax money to live comfortably you can make the 'sacrifice' to not smoke.

If you want to be free to do what you want, go take the initiative and earn enough money to afford your own place with NO federal subsidies.

Additionally, I have no problem with dropping certain elements of health coverage for people who choose to smoke, particularly if they are NOT paying 'full price' for their premiums and are taking subsidized ACA insurance.

If you are a smoker on a subsidized plan and incur any of the established risks/ailments attributed to smoking, don't bother going in for treatment, because you're not covered (lung cancer, emphysema, high BP/stroke, etc). We'll cover you for an appendix removal, or a broken bone, but not for anything related to your smoking. Then you can choose if you want to sacrifice that coverage for a cigarette or not.

I DO have a problem with the government intruding on people's rights, when those people are NOT relying on welfare/ACA subsidies. If you can afford the 'upcharge' on health insurance and want to smoke or use chewing tobacco, have at it.
 
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I don't think it's intrusive at all. If you are dependent upon the federal government and other taxpayers for your subsidized home, then you live by the rules they set out.

Why is this 'ok'? Because smoking DOES stink up the property and make it difficult to clean the place out for another tenant. It also increases the fire risk for the rest of the tenants when people fall asleep with a lit cigarette dropping onto a couch or carpeting. If you are in subsidized housing, you are likely also drawing welfare subsidies for food, etc., and if you are reliant on other people's tax money to live comfortably you can make the 'sacrifice' to not smoke.

If you want to be free to do what you want, go take the initiative and earn enough money to afford your own place with NO federal subsidies.

Additionally, I have no problem with dropping certain elements of health coverage for people who choose to smoke, particularly if they are NOT paying 'full price' for their premiums and are taking subsidized ACA insurance.

If you are a smoker on a subsidized plan and incur any of the established risks/ailments attributed to smoking, don't bother going in for treatment, because you're not covered (lung cancer, emphysema, high BP/stroke, etc). We'll cover you for an appendix removal, or a broken bone, but not for anything related to your smoking. Then you can choose if you want to sacrifice that coverage for a cigarette or not.

I DO have a problem with the government intruding on people's rights, when those people are NOT relying on welfare/ACA subsidies. If you can afford the 'upcharge' on health insurance and want to smoke or use chewing tobacco, have at it.

Boy, you're not very compassionate.
 
I think you're seeing what I, at least, expected. Progressives agreeing with the smoking ban and Conservatives disagreeing with it. Why? Because it's government intruding on personal rights. Why do Progressives like it? Because it's government intruding on personal rights.

I despise smoking but it's your right to do it and it's not the right of government to do try and stop it.
 
I'll be happy to pay higher health insurance premiums, as long as every other dangerous or unhealthy behavior is similarly treated actuarially. But, then... that would get really complicated.
 
I don't think it's intrusive at all. If you are dependent upon the federal government and other taxpayers for your subsidized home, then you live by the rules they set out.

Why is this 'ok'? Because smoking DOES stink up the property and make it difficult to clean the place out for another tenant. It also increases the fire risk for the rest of the tenants when people fall asleep with a lit cigarette dropping onto a couch or carpeting. If you are in subsidized housing, you are likely also drawing welfare subsidies for food, etc., and if you are reliant on other people's tax money to live comfortably you can make the 'sacrifice' to not smoke.

If you want to be free to do what you want, go take the initiative and earn enough money to afford your own place with NO federal subsidies.

Additionally, I have no problem with dropping certain elements of health coverage for people who choose to smoke, particularly if they are NOT paying 'full price' for their premiums and are taking subsidized ACA insurance.

If you are a smoker on a subsidized plan and incur any of the established risks/ailments attributed to smoking, don't bother going in for treatment, because you're not covered (lung cancer, emphysema, high BP/stroke, etc). We'll cover you for an appendix removal, or a broken bone, but not for anything related to your smoking. Then you can choose if you want to sacrifice that coverage for a cigarette or not.

I DO have a problem with the government intruding on people's rights, when those people are NOT relying on welfare/ACA subsidies. If you can afford the 'upcharge' on health insurance and want to smoke or use chewing tobacco, have at it.


Do you feel the same way about food stamps? Should recipients be able to buy Cheetos, Mountain Dew, Sugar-Frosted Chocolate Bombs breakfast cereal, and "cancer-causing" processed meats?

Advocates for the poor lament that restrictions on what they can buy will create a stigma about participating in the program, and we all know we can't hurt anyone's feelings in Obama's America.
 
They are paying for your rent.

OK. So what's next? Can't eat certain foods inside their apt. if it's bad for you? No twinkies or cookies? Can they drink to the point of being intoxicated? How about watching porn? What about a child playing a video game rated Mature? How about they just a government-appointed apartment police to go around knocking on doors all day long and go through cabinets and research what they've been watching on their computers or who they've been calling?

How about a special refrigerator policeman? That'll keep those damn citizens in line.
 
Wow. Look at all the progressives supporting government intrusion into people's lives on here. I thought you guys were against government intrusion…accept it it's abortion.

What happened to you guys? Freedom for the people and all progressives. You've completely flipped to all-encompassing government rule when just a few years ago you hated the government telling you what to do.
 
Do you feel the same way about food stamps? Should recipients be able to buy Cheetos, Mountain Dew, Sugar-Frosted Chocolate Bombs breakfast cereal, and "cancer-causing" processed meats?

Advocates for the poor lament that restrictions on what they can buy will create a stigma about participating in the program, and we all know we can't hurt anyone's feelings in Obama's America.


They've complained about this too. They shouldn't be told what to buy with their food stamps. This argument has come up multiple times and the progressives sided with the welfare recipients. They just can't make up their damn minds.
 
They've complained about this too. They shouldn't be told what to buy with their food stamps. This argument has come up multiple times and the progressives sided with the welfare recipients. They just can't make up their damn minds.

The reason people can buy crap food with food stamps is because large corporations like pepsi and kraft want them to buy their junk.

I always thought conservatives believed that you needed to get people incentives. When you give them free housing whats the incentive to go out and better yourself?

I think you were in the military? Can you do whatever you want in military housing or do you have to follow rules?
 
The government isn't your parents. Big difference.

However, the government is giving these people "allowances" in the form of housing subsidies, food stamps and such.

If you don't want the government involved in how you live your life, then by all means make your own way. Besides, if there is money for smokes, that is money that should be going towards rent, food.
 
Why isn't there similar outrage for the Nanny State that is California banning cigarettes in rental properties?? You can't smoke on public beaches out there either? Why no outrage for that?
 
The reason people can buy crap food with food stamps is because large corporations like pepsi and kraft want them to buy their junk.

I always thought conservatives believed that you needed to get people incentives. When you give them free housing whats the incentive to go out and better yourself?

I think you were in the military? Can you do whatever you want in military housing or do you have to follow rules?


Never lived in military housing. But as long as you kept to the regular civilian rules, they left you alone.

And the reason they buy crap food is because the Department of Agriculture allows it. Don't go blaming the food corporations. It's the governments fault in the first place for putting this crappy program in place.
 
Do you feel the same way about food stamps? Should recipients be able to buy Cheetos, Mountain Dew, Sugar-Frosted Chocolate Bombs breakfast cereal, and "cancer-causing" processed meats?

Advocates for the poor lament that restrictions on what they can buy will create a stigma about participating in the program, and we all know we can't hurt anyone's feelings in Obama's America.

I disagree with the food stamps program in general, because it is woefully inefficient, and becomes a subsidy for grocers/outlets selling the foods.

I'd prefer distributing food from a more 'bulk' purchase perspective (e.g. a food bank, where they can purchase items in bulk at much lower cost - not unlike CostCo), and distribute for a small at-cost markup. Most food stamps are used at places where individually packaged and small amount of things cost 20% or more above what they actually COULD cost. Some of this is due to location- not everyone lives in an area where there is a larger grocery store, and they are relegated to purchasing items at Casey's-like convenience stores. That means 20-25 cents of every welfare dollar is wasted on inefficient overhead, and it subsidizes those types of stores.

Set up 'food bank' stores for food stamps, and you can limit what people can buy based on the selection.

Of course, you would have an uproar that this was 'insensitive' and 'humiliating' for people. Well, I really don't care if it requires people to be 'humbled' if they are getting free food on other peoples' dime. And if something different can be done that lowers the overall costs to those of us providing the subsidy, THAT should be the government's priority over people's 'feelings', IMO.

Legislators (particularly Republicans) complain about deficits and 'entitlements' spending (and they are absolutely justified with those complaints, BTW), but no one wants to implement more efficient means of providing welfare and lowering the federal budget money we spend on them.
 
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Wow. Look at all the progressives supporting government intrusion into people's lives on here. I thought you guys were against government intrusion…accept it it's abortion.

What happened to you guys? Freedom for the people and all progressives. You've completely flipped to all-encompassing government rule when just a few years ago you hated the government telling you what to do.

so, you only support government intrusion if it is in the form of giving people money?
it's like all of these Black Lives Matter people that rail against America and go on and on how bad this country is. I bet a good majority of those people sure don't have problems with the government handouts they receive
 
However, the government is giving these people "allowances" in the form of housing subsidies, food stamps and such.

If you don't want the government involved in how you live your life, then by all means make your own way. Besides, if there is money for smokes, that is money that should be going towards rent, food.


So does each welfare family need a 24-hour advocate/supervisor to make sure whatever pocket money they may have goes to the proper purchases of what the govt believes is healthy and proper?
 
Why isn't there similar outrage for the Nanny State that is California banning cigarettes in rental properties?? You can't smoke on public beaches out there either? Why no outrage for that?

hhhWHAT!!!??? The WHOLE BEACH is a nice, big ol' sandy ashtray!!!
It's PERFECT for smokers....almost like God made it that way, just for them!!!:cool:
 
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Never lived in military housing. But as long as you kept to the regular civilian rules, they left you alone.

And the reason they buy crap food is because the Department of Agriculture allows it. Don't go blaming the food corporations. It's the governments fault in the first place for putting this crappy program in place.

Why do you think politicians created a program for the dept. of agriculture like this? Campaign donations from frito lays.
 
So does each welfare family need a 24-hour advocate/supervisor to make sure whatever pocket money they may have goes to the proper purchases of what the govt believes is healthy and proper?

if it means the person that I saw at Hy Vee the other day with the cart full of groceries and the WIC card in hand doesn't use the money for the dope kicks so be it (i am not a sneaker head, but these shoes didn't even look like something you would be able to stroll into the foot locker or finish line and get off the shelves). It probably would do some of these people good to have an advocate to teach them about budgeting and prioritizing what their money goes towards.
 
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Wow. Look at all the progressives supporting government intrusion into people's lives on here. I thought you guys were against government intrusion…accept it it's abortion.

What happened to you guys? Freedom for the people and all progressives. You've completely flipped to all-encompassing government rule when just a few years ago you hated the government telling you what to do.

Its support for the rights of property owners.
 
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Do you feel the same way about food stamps? Should recipients be able to buy Cheetos, Mountain Dew, Sugar-Frosted Chocolate Bombs breakfast cereal, and "cancer-causing" processed meats?

Advocates for the poor lament that restrictions on what they can buy will create a stigma about participating in the program, and we all know we can't hurt anyone's feelings in Obama's America.

Actually, its the companies that make Cheetos, Mountin Dew, Sugar-Frosted Chocolate Bombs breakfast cereal and cancer-causing processed meat who are behind keeping these things avaiable to food stamp recipients.
 
Actually, its the companies that make Cheetos, Mountin Dew, Sugar-Frosted Chocolate Bombs breakfast cereal and cancer-causing processed meat who are behind keeping these things avaiable to food stamp recipients.

Correct. And it becomes a giant subsidy for them, and for all the Quickie-Marts that sell the stuff at 30% markup of what you'd find at a regular store.

Another solution to this is to make it a government mandate that any WIC-compatible item have a fixed cap for markup above a 'base rate'. Thus, if you want to accept WIC at your store, you sell the stuff at a 5% or 10% profit, max (or whatever is a reasonable/rational level). Wal Mart would probably be the biggest benefactor from something like this, but if they have the capability to drop their overhead costs and deliver federally-funded benefits to people, who cares which company 'wins'? If it can be implemented to reduce the costs of the overall program, while still providing the acceptable level of benefit to the recipients, it should get consideration as an option.
 
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