Ferentz and Fran are so similar in the last 4 minutes of games....If they don't build the 2 scores FB or double digit BB lead going into the end of a game we lose 2/3 of the time...below average game day coaches, especially crunch time..!!
Ready for new blood next season....
- Thread starter Hawkeyestate81
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I am very much looking forward to the seniors moving on and new players with different attitudes and skills. I agree it will be rough early, but if the appear to be busting their ***es on defense and hustle 40 minutes with intensity it will be only a matter of time before they are competitive. Losing happens, but if players are leaving it all on the floor it is much easier to digest a loss and have hope for the future IMO. This year's team not so much for whatever reasons(s)??
If Iowa starts backtracking, finishing 9th or below in the Big 10, then I think the fans can start questioning Fran. Theoretically after 3-4 yrs. Fran should have the foundation built to win close to 20 games a yr. and finish at the top of the Big 10. That's why he was hired. Imagine trying to fill Carver next year if 2-3 game losing streaks r the norm.
To me it is the physical toughness that we're missing the most, but I would take some more mental toughness too. I want to see a guy like Wagner develop a couple more moves and be that physical presence down low that we probably haven't had since Cole (???). While Woodbury wasn't afraid to bump into people, he is so uncoordinated that he couldn't finish around the rim.
Hopefully they schedule 10 creampuffs in the non conference and 3 tough teams. Then hope for 10 wins and maybe steal a tough game. The creampuff games are used to get a rotation of 10 players with quality minutes for everyone. The go 9-9 or 10-8 in the conference and hope for at least one BIG tournament win. There's 20-21 wins and then whatever happens happens with the NCAA tournament. And hopefully over the summer the coaches get some insight on building team chemistry and unity.(talk to some successful retired coaches and pick their brain a little). Then Fran has to calm down some, I think he's rubbing players the wrong way during his outbursts and it's beating them down.
If you don't mind a Spartan chiming in, I think you guys had a good year with more to come so don't throw this team under the bus quite yet! For all the disappointment you feel now, MG, JU, AW and AC are an excellent group of seniors. If the team had one fault, it was Fran's lack of developing depth. Too many minutes for your starters results in fatigue late in the year.
As for next year, I think the consensus is that Iowa will struggle to be a "500" team in the B1G. Wisconsin returns everyone (and has developed depth) as does OSU. Both IU and Purdue will be solid, albeit with a slightly different cast as two superstars graduate. Illinois and Michigan should be solid or improved. MSU loses a ton, but also has the nations #1 class coming in with 3-4 possible one-and-done players on the roster. Its always a mystery to know if they can develop quickly but MSU will be talented.
You guys simply need to sign more good players. Fran is certainly not a bad recruiter. But talent wins, especially in a league where virtually all the coaches are outstanding. I remember once when a HOF coach was asked who the best coach was he ever faced. He replied, "the one with the best players." You guys need to ramp up the talent level to remain in the top third of the league. Best of luck in the Dance!! (Go Green!! Sorry, had to do that!)
As for next year, I think the consensus is that Iowa will struggle to be a "500" team in the B1G. Wisconsin returns everyone (and has developed depth) as does OSU. Both IU and Purdue will be solid, albeit with a slightly different cast as two superstars graduate. Illinois and Michigan should be solid or improved. MSU loses a ton, but also has the nations #1 class coming in with 3-4 possible one-and-done players on the roster. Its always a mystery to know if they can develop quickly but MSU will be talented.
You guys simply need to sign more good players. Fran is certainly not a bad recruiter. But talent wins, especially in a league where virtually all the coaches are outstanding. I remember once when a HOF coach was asked who the best coach was he ever faced. He replied, "the one with the best players." You guys need to ramp up the talent level to remain in the top third of the league. Best of luck in the Dance!! (Go Green!! Sorry, had to do that!)
Wish Fran would take a look at how Izzo does it. Both fiery guys, both guys who like to push tempo but Izzo teams are far more physical. Wouldn't hurt Fran to run more sets like Tom, use timeouts at the end of games to set up plays like Izzo does. Also Izzo messes with his lineup all the time. Fran gets stuck in his lineup and who his guys are that he trusts in all situations. Also I really like Izzo's substitution patterns better and he also seems to have better defined roles for his bench players then Fran does. I know they both have quick hooks with their bench but Izzo seems to manage it better. If I recall he pulls guys quickly but then puts them right back in. Fran pulls guys and they just sit on the bench. I think this has really hurt the develop of Uhl this year.
so they were offered a scholarship by those you mentioned and Iowa took them away!
We will be so much better down low next year with Cook and the rest of the new bigs. Think about it. JU was not much of an inside threat unless he is wide open. Who have we had that can actually post up and make an inside move with someone guarding them? I am excited about our bigs. We will be better underneath next year, will greatly miss JU scoring and defense and don't have a clue about our guards next year. If we get decent guard play I think we could be a surprise next year. Much more scoring and physicality from our bigs. Oh and Jok is gonna lead the big in scoring.
I'm with this. With Wagner, Uhl and Jim are a solid three, through in Cook and the likes of Moss/Hutton and we'll much more athletic. This team can't play defense to save itself right now. Loosing the Senior leadership won't hurt, I'm tired of seeing these guys piss down their legs during crunch time. I still think Fran's a good coach. He's not the one making stupid plays and how could you not be pissed as a coach to continually make the same poor plays after four years.
He can get to the rim and put it back up, that is what we are missing right now, so already an upgrade.
I hate to say it, but I don't think they can win 8 conference games. Pemsl is supposed to replace Uthoff?? Now Cook and Kriener can probably score more than woody, but I doubt they rebound as good -so that is a wash. Freshman PG (or Williams) probably won't be able to handle the press as good as Mike, but may be better in other areas. Who is the shooting guard? We would have to have about 3 guys that are freshman or current players that step up in a big way to win 8 games.
Don't forget Jones and the continuing development of Baer.
Two years in a row now, the expectations were that the Hawks were going to take a step back. How would they replace Marble? White? Now, it's Uhtoff. Maybe Jok will become a superstar, or maybe someone will surprise like Baer did. Maybe Jones will have an All-B1G season.
These guys on the bench have played thousands of hours of basketball, and they will play hundreds of hours more before next season begins. It will be fun to see how the team comes together.
Two years in a row now, the expectations were that the Hawks were going to take a step back. How would they replace Marble? White? Now, it's Uhtoff. Maybe Jok will become a superstar, or maybe someone will surprise like Baer did. Maybe Jones will have an All-B1G season.
These guys on the bench have played thousands of hours of basketball, and they will play hundreds of hours more before next season begins. It will be fun to see how the team comes together.
What are you looking for here? You asked a stupid question and were easily proven wrong. Bye.
Matt Painter says hello! You might want to check out his tenure at Purdue. Remember he was at the top of the league for multiple years and top 10 with Hummel, Moore, Johnson etc.? Then back-tracked for several seasons with a 6th, 7th & 12th place finish. Would have been easy for them to dump him at that point saying it's over. Now he's back towards the top again with a pretty good team with back-2-back 3rd place finishes.
Tom Davis says hello also!
88-87 23-10, 10-8 4th
89-90 12-16, 4-14 8th
90-91 21-11, 9-9 5th
92-93 23-9, 11-7 3rd
93-94 11-16, 5-13 9th
94-95 21-12, 9-9 7th
95-96 23-9, 11-7 4th
Haters are going to hate and will find any reason to hate but even under a very good coach like Davis who had experience and 'built a foundation' as you mentioned there were ups and downs as he developed rosters, good players graduated and the next set of inexperienced players had to come in and start the process over.
It is very frustrating to get close and have it slip away but maybe, just maybe this team really over-achieved early and is coming back to the mean. They still exceeded expectations by 4 games in the B1G no matter how it happened. Does the coach and players not get credit now because it's frustrating how it ended?
Also by the way this is the best 2 year stretch in the B1G since Davis's first 2 years with Raveling's players. Think about that first Davis team finishing 3rd in the conference and the heartbreak final 8 loss. That was an awesome and deep team.
86-87 30-5, 14-4 3rd
87-88 24-6, 12-6 3rd
Next year will be very ugly. There are to many people that only look at "points scored". This years seniors may have had problems scoring points down the stretch. But look what that have done out side of points scored. If those people are to shallow to see that maybe you should follow wrestling. Next year there will only be one scorer.....and it becomes very easy to defend if you have only one guy that can score. Nobody to defend the basket ...Woody was one of he best in the league and will be playing somewhere next year because of that. No proven point guard. So tell me again who thinks we will be worth a crap next year. I will say ....looking 2 or 3 years out I'm very excited.....but next year ....ha ..ha ...no way! Next year we will be wishing this years seniors all had a another year!!
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Woody is same guy that got torched by PSU no-name center for career high and then Maverick Morgan in BTT. Yes, Woody plays positional defense, but you can shoot over top him at point blank and every center out there has better foot speed. Woody rebounded well. and matched up well vs Purdue behemoths--that is it.
I think the earlier post about Woody/Gesell/Clemmons being a cast of average is spot on. Not like those guy's experience bought us wins in close games. The new blood will be nice to see, and the team will be worse only because it lost a superstar in Uthoff and three guys that would have been capable backups.
I think we will miss Woodbury next season more than people realize on the defensive end. I didn't see people complaining about Adam's play during the hot streak to start the conference season. He has given us toughness, rebounding and a defensive presence in the post even when his play at times has seemed flawed and perhaps not up to par. Who will give us any kind of physicality in the post next season? As others have noted playing Uhl at the 5 didn't work out very well this season. I really like Wagner but don't see him defending big 5's. Cook looks to have great potential but not in the post. And Kreiner may work out for us in the long run but we shouldn't expect much from him as a freshman. I so wish Fran would have brought in even a JUCO center this season as I fear we will get shredded on the inside next season.
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I don't get how people think that we are going to be so much worse next year.
Every position except for Uthoff is a instant upgrade in talent and athletism.
As far as Woody's and Clemmons defense. Neither one made 1st team defense.
Don't even get me started on their offense!
Kreiner/ Cook will easily avg. 9 rebounds a game and will score more points their freshmen year than Woody provided his entire career.
Dale Jones was our best rebounder before he got hurt and was shooting 45% from 3 pt. land.
Wagner by far the most improved freshmen on the team and will continue to get better and better.
CW is a instant upgrade over Clemmons and should be playing now over Clemmons. (Bad coaching)
Bohannon better shooter and better ball handler than MG.
Jok will lead the league in scoring, so better version of himself.
Moss will start at SG and Hutton will come off the bench.
Ellingson and Flemming need to transfer out, no playing time for either one of these players.
Baer gets one of their scholarships and bring in a 5th year transfer PG for added depth.
They might not get to 20 wins, but they will be a lot more fun to watch and guarantee will see more dunks
and less missed bunnies.
I can't wait!
Every position except for Uthoff is a instant upgrade in talent and athletism.
As far as Woody's and Clemmons defense. Neither one made 1st team defense.
Don't even get me started on their offense!
Kreiner/ Cook will easily avg. 9 rebounds a game and will score more points their freshmen year than Woody provided his entire career.
Dale Jones was our best rebounder before he got hurt and was shooting 45% from 3 pt. land.
Wagner by far the most improved freshmen on the team and will continue to get better and better.
CW is a instant upgrade over Clemmons and should be playing now over Clemmons. (Bad coaching)
Bohannon better shooter and better ball handler than MG.
Jok will lead the league in scoring, so better version of himself.
Moss will start at SG and Hutton will come off the bench.
Ellingson and Flemming need to transfer out, no playing time for either one of these players.
Baer gets one of their scholarships and bring in a 5th year transfer PG for added depth.
They might not get to 20 wins, but they will be a lot more fun to watch and guarantee will see more dunks
and less missed bunnies.
I can't wait!
I think we'll be worth a crap next year. I find it very believable that it won't be hard to replace Gesell and Clemmons. I've already seen glimpses of Christian Williams length being a factor defensively. Combine that with the athletic ability we are hearing Moss and Hutton have and you replace Gesell and Clemmons D right there. Plus Gesell and Clemmons don't rebound. There rebounding makes me want to throw up. Also I think your discounting potentially how good of a shooting team this could be with Jok, Baer, Jones, Uhl and possibly Bohannon. Our shooters will see more minutes next year.
this and develop a bench and play that bench every game and it should be an OK year.
This is ridiculous.
He was an above average one-on-one defender against opposing true centers who became a much better rebounder this season. A decent passer for a big man. He was also one of the poorest rim protectors for a 7-footer. Very little offense to speak of and never developed a significant back to the basket game or post moves.
And he was one of the best in the league? As reflected by the post season honors he received, right?
It's going to be real hard to find people to choke in the clutch as much as Clemmons and Gesell have. That's some serious elite choking ability they posses.
I am with you. We may struggle a little early in the season, but I bet Iowa is playing some pretty decent ball by February next year. I think some May be surprised.
Watching this West Virginia/Kansas game and if Tyler Cook can become a player like Devin Williams for us I think we'll be makin hay. Both players are about 6'9"/250 and from what I have seen they both have very similar games. Excited for Cook to get on campus.
Yeah, there is a pretty good chance that we will get to see even more turnovers and bricks, not just at the end of halves. I think you are also right about dunks. We should get to watch a bunch more on both ends of the court.
Have you thought about becoming a UK fan? Then, you will get to see new guys winning most of the time every season. You can also get romantic with your cousins, if you want, and you will fit right in.
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