Ref # 30????
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I actually thought Brandon was fairly active, jshirt is just an extremely effective staller
Officiating has been absolutely awful on day 2. First day was very good IMO.
Guess reffing is in a way like a home plate ump in baseball all have a different strike zone.
Wrestling some will call stalling more and also some will let a scramble go for ever it seems.When a guy shoots and has one leg the other wrestler just grabs one of his legs low and hangs on for life should have a count for that if nothing happens in the count call stalmate don't let it go for like 25-30 seconds.
Wrestling some will call stalling more and also some will let a scramble go for ever it seems.When a guy shoots and has one leg the other wrestler just grabs one of his legs low and hangs on for life should have a count for that if nothing happens in the count call stalmate don't let it go for like 25-30 seconds.
Same BS we'll see in March. Refs call all kinds of stuff in preliminary rounds then swallow their whistles in the semis and finals.
Same thing in hoops with the mandate on rules through the season then come tourney time they change how they call games.
Same thing in hoops with the mandate on rules through the season then come tourney time they change how they call games.
#48 was terrible both days I cringed every time he had an Iowa guy.
Which is kind of the point. TShirt did not touch Brandon's legs the whole match IIRC. Off of Brandon's shot, they end up near out of bounds with Sorensen on his knees reaching for TShirts hips. Brandon doesn't back out but continues pushing against TShirt. Start at the 7 minute mark.
https://www.flowrestling.org/video/...sorensen-iowa-vs-jason-tsirtsis-arizona-state
Hey now, Jason T- shirts thought about taking a shot. He never took one but thought about it. That is being active for him.
Just because someone does not take a shot does not mean they are necessarily stalling though. Just as just pushing someone forward and off the mat does not necessarily mean someone is "attempting to score."
I highly value the opinion of Iowa wrestling fans, but this is one thing that has always bothered me about Iowa fans in particular. The incessant pandering for stalling calls is enough to turn an entire arena against an Iowa wrestler.
I know I am going to get killed for this post, but that is my truthful opinion.
I highly value the opinion of Iowa wrestling fans, but this is one thing that has always bothered me about Iowa fans in particular. The incessant pandering for stalling calls is enough to turn an entire arena against an Iowa wrestler.
I know I am going to get killed for this post, but that is my truthful opinion.
The objective of wrestling is to score on your opponent. From the neutral position, you are to attempt to get a takedown. Zero attempts to get a takedown is STALLING. Not exactly entertaining for the fans either. You want less fans and want to kill the sport, make it boring.
I think Jason Tsirtsis could wrestle the Gable statue to a 0-0 tie...but barely because Tsirtsis would get warned for stalling by the Gable statue and an actual ref...
I agree, the incessant calls for stalling are very annoying but it’s not just an Iowa problem, it’s a wrestling problem.
Boo boo boo. Okay I don't mind a good defensively wrestled match but when one guy shoots repeatedly and the other just backs up, blocks and eventually counters, that deserves a stall call. Zero shot attempts mid way through the 2nd, stall points need to be going on the board.
Of course not taking a shot doesn't mean you're stalling but then again you have to make an attempt at a scoring move. Pushing someone forward and off the mat can be stalling and I understand your point of view but wtf is the other guy doing in that case? He's freaking backing up and not "mixing it up". Stand your ground and lets wrestle!! So the alternative to stalking and pushing and taking space is to stand in the middle and stare at each other???
Everybody cries about stalling and how "tough" it is to call. It's not hard to call, the voice in your head tells you the guy or guys are stalling and you ding them....the problem is that officials swallow the whistle and are scared to get involved. Their "paychecks" and statuses are involved in the high profile matches and they don't want to lose that. I'd rather a ref be overzealous than what they are now, show us action, make the guys wrestle!
It's always going to be subjective, we as fans are probably just stuck "crying" about this issue because I don't know how you get around the officials not being "scared" to piss the coaches off, who will then never hire them for duals or hurt their chances at the big tournaments. I'm not a huge fan of the push out rule in folkstyle but it may be the only way to really get away from the subjectivity. It wouldn't turn completely to Sumo cuz eventully guys will learn to stay in the middle and bang with each other.
Been watching Hawk wrestling over 40 years. Always been aggressive and moving forward. Maybe NCAA should try cage matches so none run out or get pushed out. Honestly though, if you don't want to be pushed out, push back.
Here is the thing... The "Step Out" rule in Freestyle which is so often brought up is not a "Push Out" rule. You are not supposed to be awarded a point for pushing someone out. However, your opponent is awarded a point if you step out. There is a big difference. However, most Freestyle matches might as well have a "push out" rule with the way it is officiated in America.
If someone is running out, then that is stalling, but if someone is just pushing someone out and blocking with a collar tie, then that is the stalling imo, not the guy who is bring pushed around. Just because you are stronger than me doesn't mean I am stalling.
Want to compare resume's on the mat? I've been called a lot of things, but never a "staller." I was coached the "Iowa way," my high school coach and Youth coach were both Hawkeyes. I was always pushing people forward and won a lot of matches because my opponent got hit for stalling in the last 10 seconds of the 3rd. When in reality I was trying to score in one way only, the official calling stalling on my opponent. I used to say things like, "I just broke him in the 3rd period" and "He just couldn't handle my pace." Now, I think that is hogwash by and large and my technique is 100% times better as a result.
Wise up, Grasshopper. According to your post above, you are OK with a wrestler not shooting and stalling their butt off. I have no clue as to how you personally wrestle/wrestled.
I get your point, but you’re making it in relation to the wrong example. Tsirtsis absolutely should have been dinged, and it had nothing to do with being pushed. But stick to your guns if you must.
No.
See people are putting things into my mouth that I never said. I never said anything about this specific match what so ever. I dislike stalling as much, if not more than most of the Iowa fan boys who throw up the fist and yell "beep, beep, beep!" like a semi in reverse, that is not what I am trying to say at all.
I didn't even watch the Sorensen v Tshirtis match and have made no comment to that effect.
I am merely saying, it has been my observation over the years that Iowa fans in particular will call loudly for stalling and want a stalling call made that would decide the match more so than any other program when one wrestler is merely pushing the other wrestler around. For some reason Iowa fans think that just because someone isn't taking a shot every 10-15 seconds that they are stalling, particularly if they are being pushed backwards by an Iowa wrestler. And Extra especially if the Iowa wrestler pushes them out of bounds and then races back to the line and is in their stance ready to wrestle, while their opponent calmly walks back to the center like most wrestlers do when they go out of bounds.
I understand why fans want stalling to be called in a situation like the one I described above and in Carver most of the time that call will get made (further re-enforcing the behavior), but in my opinion the above does not describe a clear cut wrestler actively stalling. The wrestler could be hand fighting, changing levels, looking for angles, and fighting for head position to set up a shot they never get to take because they are getting blocked and shoved out of bounds. Their opponent is merely hanging on to a tight collar tie, blocking any inside movement, and pushing them backwards off the mat, despite an effort to attempt to circle, which is blocked and you get one last shove sending you 5 feet out of the circle or a butt-double (a half shot, knee slapper, on the very edge of the mat) followed by a shove just after the referee blows the whistle to stop the action sending them to the stumbling or perhaps even to the ground. Then by time you stand up someone like Thomas Gilman will already to lined up ready for the next whistle to blow (that is a compliment, not an insult). I personally always tried to do that very thing.
I used to be the same way as the Iowa fans I am referring to here. I would fire up the stalling chant personally. However, after becoming a coach, and then an official, and really getting into stalling and what exactly it looks like, I determined that the wrestler pushing the other out of bounds and racing back to the center is sometimes the wrestler that is actually guilty of the stalling, rather than the one calmly walking back to the center of the mat getting boo'ed relentlessly.
Now, I am being very specific with my word choice because many times the wrestler going backwards and not shooting is in fact stalling, the majority in fact. However, merely being pushed backwards out of bounds and not taking a plethora of shots does not equal stalling in my book. That is all I'm saying and for many Iowa fans it seems that is all they need to see to say it is for sure stalling. That's all.
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Sounds to me that you are making up a narative to fit your premise. What most want called stalling is the opposition doing nothing but controlling the elbow and blocking with the head. Defending against the opponents offensive ties and not trying to obtain any of their own. Then when they find themselves in an unwanted position they back out. You have conveniently made up your own criteria of what Iowa fans consider stalling though, to objectify your personal opinion of Iowa fans and Iowa wrestling.
As far as “Iowa fans in particular”, that very likely is because many opponents try to slow Iowa wrestler’s down and capitalize on them being over aggressive and or winning with a late take down.
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Bullshite. We don’t want to win matches due to stalling points but we DO want to see seven minutes of wrestling rather than 6.5 minutes of running followed by 30 seconds of action.
Might as well shorten the matches to 30 seconds if that’s the case. Engage or gtfh.
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I don't know what team you follow but if your being pushed around, fire the strength and conditioning coach. Gable built a dynasty on being aggressive and going forward. I can see your point maybe if it is a hwt match and one is so much bigger than the other. Otherwise, push back, control ties, drop to a double leg or anything other than just back out.
I have no problem with Iowa fans yelling stalling incessantly. It’s not really a big deal. I can think of a lot worse habits that a fan abase might be known for. Besides, it is stalling most of the time. By my assessment, Iowa fans are correct 83% of the time.
JustWrestle, I have to disagree with much of your post. I do agree that some fans do exactly what you have stated, but in my opinion, the majority of Iowa fans are knowledgable enough to understand legitimate shots. I witnessed multiple matches over the weekend, not all involving Iowa wrestlers, where one wrestler took 6-10 level-changing, legitimate takedown attempts of one type or another, while their oponent only attempted a reshot or two. THAT is stalling.
Secondly, there have been times when the Iowa crowd influences a call or two by refs, but Iowa gets just as many bad or wrong calls in CHA as they get favorable ones, and often more.
Lastly, any self-respecting D1 wrestler who constantly lets themselves be pushed out of bounds without getting a shot off isn't much of a wrestler in my book. Anyone putting that much pressure forward on me (or most halfway decent wrestlers) hanging on the head, would walk into a blast double, a hard snap-down, a fireman's carry, or a headlock. If a guy's head and hands defense is tied up hanging on a head (even if only one hand) and he's pressuring in, one of those things has got to work on him.
Secondly, there have been times when the Iowa crowd influences a call or two by refs, but Iowa gets just as many bad or wrong calls in CHA as they get favorable ones, and often more.
Lastly, any self-respecting D1 wrestler who constantly lets themselves be pushed out of bounds without getting a shot off isn't much of a wrestler in my book. Anyone putting that much pressure forward on me (or most halfway decent wrestlers) hanging on the head, would walk into a blast double, a hard snap-down, a fireman's carry, or a headlock. If a guy's head and hands defense is tied up hanging on a head (even if only one hand) and he's pressuring in, one of those things has got to work on him.
Generally speaking, when the fans start calling stalling, stalling is going on. When both wrestlers are trying to score, Iowa fans don't call for stalling. I don't know what planet Justwrestle obverses Iowa wrestling from; but, it isn't the Hawkeye wrestling that takes place in Carver Hawkeye Arena. The BS meter just maxed out on this claim.
THis drives me nuts.
Watch the Lee/Bresser match, 3rd period.
At 1:28, Bresser on bottom gets hit with stall warning.
At 1:20 Bresser still isnt working up and Ref #46 "talks" to Bresser
At :57 Bresser still not working up and Ref #46 has another chat with him, motioning with his hands to work his way up
How the heck isnt that ref calling a 2nd stall and awarding a point??
Watch the Lee/Bresser match, 3rd period.
At 1:28, Bresser on bottom gets hit with stall warning.
At 1:20 Bresser still isnt working up and Ref #46 "talks" to Bresser
At :57 Bresser still not working up and Ref #46 has another chat with him, motioning with his hands to work his way up
How the heck isnt that ref calling a 2nd stall and awarding a point??
Because he is gutless. Refs like that are single handedly running off the casual fans.
You must not have ever wrestled in college.
Sometimes things happen and you are physically not as your best or you are simply overmatched by an extraordinary opponent.
Ever make a bad cut and just have no energy?
Ever go up a weight class or two to help out the team in a dual?
Things happen. And while I absolutely agree Iowa has a reputation for pushing the pace and constantly going forward, I have certainly seen my fair share of Iowa wrestlers getting pushed around and going backwards. I didn't hear chants for stalling by the Hawkeye faithful during any of those matches though and a certainly don't expect to.
All I am saying is SOMETIMES going backwards and not taking a shot for an extended period of time in NOT stalling. Most of the time it is, but not always and if I had one complaint about the Iowa fanbase, which I very much respect and wish more fan bases resembled, it would be the quickness to which a number of fans start looking for a stalling call to decide a close match.
It is a very minor thing and if that is your only flaw you are doing pretty darn good as a fanbase. I knew I would get killed for posting my original thoughts. I should have refrained from posting that opinion as I knew it would get twisted, convoluted, and lead to nothing positive. Almost like saying anything negative or even asking a question what so ever about Penn State recruiting tactics or pedophilia. Some topics should just be avoided. For Iowa its stalling, which in comparison to child molestation, cover ups, and cheating, you are really in a pretty good place.
You just mentioned Iowa, stalling, child molestation , cover ups, and cheating all in the same sentence. Not very bright I must say.
You really aren't thinking very clearly in a big picture way here are you.
You really don't realize that people only hear and read what they want to....not what you actually write.
You are burying yourself here.
Yes. ......you should have refrained from posting....but you couldn't help yourself..... could you.
Yes, your thoughts have gotten twisted, convoluted and have lead to nothing positive............and yet you are still here.........posting about the same issue...........
You had to go and try and explain some minor meaningless technicality about your belief in stalling.
And you expect your insight to be welcomed with open arms when you won't shut up about it. You don't know when to quit apparently.
Yes..... there are some Neanderthals here in the Cesspool...... as well as Carver......as well as PSU, fOSU, etc. who act like you insinuate.
But, surely you must realize that among the doctors, lawyers, educators, coaches and other educated folk here, many see what you see and understand the nuances of what is happening on the mat. You are not the ONLY one who can see what you see. Others just have a little better sense of what to post...........or NOT!
Ever wonder why your wife gets so angry when you keep talking and won't shut up after you have made your point?
[
I made a bad cut in high school. Night before weigh ins I woke up in the middle of the night at the fridge chugging a two liter of Mtn Dew. Didn't make weight. Probably for the best as I would have to faced a Steiner in the tourney.
I made a bad cut in high school. Night before weigh ins I woke up in the middle of the night at the fridge chugging a two liter of Mtn Dew. Didn't make weight. Probably for the best as I would have to faced a Steiner in the tourney.
The 4 posts prior to your first post were about the Tshirt match and stalling. Pretty easy to see why people would think you were addressing that match. For you to not see that is disingenuous.
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