Rick Pitino: The latest NCAA whipping boy

[burk11]

Wrestling, I know, not basketball. However intercollegiate wrestling is policed by the NCAA. And the NCAA is really my grievance. Pitino is fired (news reports) for a multitude of NCAA violations including the all-encompassing, failure to exercise institutional control. Pitino is probably no candidate for canonization, and deserves some culpability in this mess. But when will the NCAA be held accountable for this muddle they have created in intercollegiate athletics?

An athletic director, a basketball coach, an assistant basketball coach, an academic official, a number of young athletes, the families of young athletes are all harmed. These are the people the NCAA holds accountable, and in the process promising careers are destroyed. Never once has anyone in the NCAA executive management been candid and declared, ‘we (NCAA) are responsible for this god-awful mess’.

Money, and corrupt, incompetent NCAA officials are the genesis of virtually all problems in NCAA athletics. Just look at the NCAA’s March Madness basketball tournament. Money is flying around like it was deposited into Hurricane Harvey, the NCAA sends in a couple of Barney Fife doubles. “Nothing here to investigate, I would be shocked to find any dishonesty and cheating with these gentlemen”.

Pay these athletes! Just venting my spleen, I’m so p…o..ed!

 

[choosenuetral]

Couldn't agree with you more....this isn't about wrestling. Don't agree with the rest of the rant.

 

[bbwretler]

Wrestling, I know, not basketball. However intercollegiate wrestling is policed by the NCAA. And the NCAA is really my grievance. Pitino is fired (news reports) for a multitude of NCAA violations including the all-encompassing, failure to exercise institutional control. Pitino is probably no candidate for canonization, and deserves some culpability in this mess. But when will the NCAA be held accountable for this muddle they have created in intercollegiate athletics?

An athletic director, a basketball coach, an assistant basketball coach, an academic official, a number of young athletes, the families of young athletes are all harmed. These are the people the NCAA holds accountable, and in the process promising careers are destroyed. Never once has anyone in the NCAA executive management been candid and declared, ‘we (NCAA) are responsible for this god-awful mess’.

Money, and corrupt, incompetent NCAA officials are the genesis of virtually all problems in NCAA athletics. Just look at the NCAA’s March Madness basketball tournament. Money is flying around like it was deposited into Hurricane Harvey, the NCAA sends in a couple of Barney Fife doubles. “Nothing here to investigate, I would be shocked to find any dishonesty and cheating with these gentlemen”.

Pay these athletes! Just venting my spleen, I’m so p…o..ed!

With Pitino it wasn't if it was simply when! You are down on the NCAA now....we start paying athletes and there will be no control at all with the abuse that will follow. The NCAA needs to simplify their ambiguous rules and regulations, get rid of the ridiculous rules that can't be enforced, and then enforce the rules that can and should be. Way way too many gray areas and way too many violations that the NCAA just seems to overlook.

 

[DayHawk18]

He's the biggest scumbag in college athletics. The NCAA is not at fault with this situation. It's a culture of 20k pay offs, back alley handshake deals, and scumbags. They'd be better off dropping basketball and just letting the studs go to the D league.

 

[StParis]

How soon until dad has a new place in the twin cities, and the Gophers start landing 5-star recruits?

It started really going downhill after NCAA sports began accepting corporate money; N$ke, Adidas, Under Armor, etc. all paying big bucks for college athletes to wear their gear.

 

[IAChief32]

My coach in Az, Sean Miller, is involved in this mess. His primary recruiter, Book Richardson was one of the guys named which could mean a whole shitstorm for the U of A depending on who knew what, when.

I didn’t know about the whole sneaker culture. One guy goes to Nike camps, will not talk to Adidas schools and vice versa. Recently, I heard (I think Durant) answer why he thought Maryland, with its tradition, is not winning. He cited them having Under Armour.

 

[DayHawk18]

And yes pay the athletes so we can have 20 D1 teams! And soccer can be destroyed and baseball and lacrosse and track and field and gymnastics! Yeah that'd be so great! Destroy our sport!!!

 

[brucefan]

I didn’t know about the whole sneaker culture. One guy goes to Nike camps, will not talk to Adidas schools and vice versa. Recently, I heard (I think Durant) answer why he thought Maryland, with its tradition, is not winning. He cited them having Under Armour.

If you want to get a close-up look at the seedy underbelly of AAU basketball, I highly recommend George Dohrmann's "Play Their Hearts Out: A Coach, His Star Recruit, and the Youth Basketball Machine." It's a few years old now but I cannot imagine things have improved. The sneaker companies do not come off well at all, but they aren't the only ones exploiting and making bank off "amateur" players.

 

[chuck285]

He's the biggest scumbag in college athletics. The NCAA is not at fault with this situation. It's a culture of 20k pay offs, back alley handshake deals, and scumbags. They'd be better off dropping basketball and just letting the studs go to the D league.

Have to agree with everything. Maybe they will get Cael and the PS wrestling program. Too many payments to athletes during the summer programs and after graduations!

 

[DayHawk18]

Non revenue sport fans who support paying D1 revenue sports athletes being paid are actual idiots. Their response is always "no they'll just get their fair cut and everything will stay the same." No that's not how it will go...at all.

The revenue produced from said D1 football and men's basketball programs effectively pay for the rest of the sports. That means when that revenue is lowered, the non revenue sports are the ones getting the sh*t end of the stick. AD's and university presidents will choose to save their pet sports and the rest will either be severely diminished (scholarships lowered or removed with fewer coaches and support staff) or just outright cut. I highly doubt the sport survives completely in tact even in the B1G and many other conferences will be a shell of their former selves.

So please stop commenting on this board and pretending you support college wrestling if you support college basketball and football players being paid.

 

[burk11]

Non revenue sport fans who support paying D1 revenue sports athletes being paid are actual idiots. Their response is always "no they'll just get their fair cut and everything will stay the same." No that's not how it will go...at all.

The revenue produced from said D1 football and men's basketball programs effectively pay for the rest of the sports. That means when that revenue is lowered, the non revenue sports are the ones getting the sh*t end of the stick. AD's and university presidents will choose to save their pet sports and the rest will either be severely diminished (scholarships lowered or removed with fewer coaches and support staff) or just outright cut. I highly doubt the sport survives completely in tact even in the B1G and many other conferences will be a shell of their former selves.

So please stop commenting on this board and pretending you support college wrestling if you support college basketball and football players being paid.

As author of this thread I believe some observations/statements need further explanation/clarification. First I’m not here to provoke, or to fan fires. I am a longtime Iowa wrestling fan, grew up in Iowa, attended the University of Iowa, and still farm in Iowa (living in Chicago for years, I’m old).

There are three shoe companies that control most NCAA athletic teams (commonly referred to as “all school business deals”). Those shoe companies; Nike, Adidas, and Under Armour (maybe Converse). The shoe company is the business/marriage partner of the school, of the athletic program. Everybody is that particular marriage tries to get along, that’s marriage, that’s business. Winning is important to a successful marriage/business.

However the successful shoe business metastasizes into other sports within the university’s athletic program. Please look at the University of Iowa athletic page, please look at the photos of various athletic teams, both men and women. Note the Nike logo (the Swoosh) on every individual’s uniform; basketball, football, soccer, volleyball, track, etc.). Look at the Nike home page and note the Ohio State, Penn State wrestling gear/program sponsored by Nike. Reflect on the recent Iowa vs Penn State football game, how many of the Gold and/or Black sweaters/shirts displayed the Nike logo? How do you monetize a shoe/a national brand? (also please see link below regarding HWC).

https://www.athleteps.com/blog/terr...ete-performance-solutions-and-nike-wrestling/

Buffoonery starts to happen. The NCAA is unable, or unwilling to see the problem! The United States Attorney (New York) brings federal charges against a number of people; “the criminal influence of money”. Incredibly the NCAA is unable to see this, the U.S. Attorney filed the charges! The exploitation of young college athletes is criminal.

Pay these kids a living wage, get these shoe companies out of college athletics, maybe get the NCAA out of college athletics. Review John Nocera’s book, “Indentured”.

 

[choosenuetral]

The out of state tuition and expenses at the University of Louisville is 40+k per year. I'd say that is plenty compensation.

 

[DayHawk18]

Oh so lose billions in revenue and raise expenses...yeah that sounds like an excellent recipe for non revenue sports staying alive.

 

[grapplefann]

Lots of sleaze in college hoops. Paying the players (more than REAL college expenses) will only transfer the sleaze to another level.
NCAA needs to clean it's house and the colleges need to clean their programs. When you flash that much money in front of anyone – administrators, coaches, support staff, athletes – bad things are going to happen.

 

[DayHawk18]

And to say they are being taken advantage of is ridiculous. It's like working at a company and making less than what you think you deserve...it's how life works. All they have to do is "suffer" with fine women who will give it up to them in a heartbeat, booze and drugs, not having to go to class, and living expenses that pay them an extra $800 to $1200 a month for whatever they want for 7 months. That sounds like a real struggle. Also, many of them have no business even being in college from an academic standpoint.

Meanwhile, you have Johnny from the neighborhood school. He's got student loans on top of his 10% scholarship, has a lift and practice everyday, in addition to actually having to go to class and do homework/essays/study, and he has to cut weight. Sounds WAY easier than someone who deserves to be paid, huh?

 

[burk11]

Regarding your financial/scholarship calculations, my frame of reference on this matter is significantly different. News reports indicate that the University of Louisville received $160,000,000, plus an additional $40,000,000 bonus for a 10 year contract from Adidas.

Assuming ‘choosenuetral’ is correct, University of Louisville offers $40,000.00 per annum to play basketball/football/or other. The athlete may choose to accept the $40,000.00 annual remuneration in lieu of going to school, but still participating in his/her chosen Intercollegiate sport.

The athlete receives this “scholarship money” for 5 years (5 years to complete 4). Invested in a conservative index fund (compound interest 6%) the athlete completes his scholarship contract and at the end of 5 years he/she has accumulated a fair sum of money; calculated at $300,000.00. Even for a farm boy such as myself this is a good investment.

However, the University of Louisville invests it’s $200,000,000.00 (spread out over 10 years) at the same compound rate as our participating athlete, and “wa la”; $315,000,000.00. That’s a lot of shoes.

Some may argue my math, but I believe I’m reasonably accurate and the model does illustrate my point. Where the H---L is all this money going? Many an institution goes to some extreme to conceal any accounting of this money. The coach receives $7.7 million annual. Why? Paying the athletes is a start in correcting the fraud/greed/crime in college sports.

 

[DayHawk18]

Does that 200k you invested come with a piece of paper that can completely change your life and due to your position on the basketball team, the ability to get on at numerous high profile companies in positions where you make more than than extra 100k?

 

[brucefan]

Regarding your financial/scholarship calculations, my frame of reference on this matter is significantly different. News reports indicate that the University of Louisville received $160,000,000, plus an additional $40,000,000 bonus for a 10 year contract from Adidas.

Assuming ‘choosenuetral’ is correct, University of Louisville offers $40,000.00 per annum to play basketball/football/or other. The athlete may choose to accept the $40,000.00 annual remuneration in lieu of going to school, but still participating in his/her chosen Intercollegiate sport.

The athlete receives this “scholarship money” for 5 years (5 years to complete 4). Invested in a conservative index fund (compound interest 6%) the athlete completes his scholarship contract and at the end of 5 years he/she has accumulated a fair sum of money; calculated at $300,000.00. Even for a farm boy such as myself this is a good investment.

However, the University of Louisville invests it’s $200,000,000.00 (spread out over 10 years) at the same compound rate as our participating athlete, and “wa la”; $315,000,000.00. That’s a lot of shoes.

Some may argue my math, but I believe I’m reasonably accurate and the model does illustrate my point. Where the H---L is all this money going? Many an institution goes to some extreme to conceal any accounting of this money. The coach receives $7.7 million annual. Why? Paying the athletes is a start in correcting the fraud/greed/crime in college sports.

I'll recommend some more reading if I may to support your point: Gregg Doyle wrote a great article in the Indianapolis Star laying a lot of the blame at the feet of the university presidents who love all that shoe money.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...scandal-fbi-rick-pitino-louisville/711098001/

 

[bbwretler]

I'll recommend some more reading if I may to support your point: Gregg Doyle wrote a great article in the Indianapolis Star laying a lot of the blame at the feet of the university presidents who love all that shoe money.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...scandal-fbi-rick-pitino-louisville/711098001/

The only blame the presidents have is hiring coahes that do not hesitate to cheat. It's the coaches who will do anything to win and have no moral or ethical standards that are 100% to blame. The coaches go looking for the player's and family's with their hands out.

 

[bphawkeye_Rivals]

Couldn't agree with you more....this isn't about wrestling. Don't agree with the rest of the rant.

 

[oakhawk]

Why are you ranting about the NCAA? This is a FBI investigation.

 

[The Vak]

"We are a capitalist society, but we should be able to wildly profit off the backs of mostly poor youths and they should not be allowed to profit off their own names and likenesses." The argument of some on this thread.

 

[DayHawk18]

"We are a capitalist society, but we should be able to wildly profit off the backs of mostly poor youths and they should not be allowed to profit off their own names and likenesses." The argument of some on this thread.

I'm all for them getting sales off their jersey, signatures, etc. Not for them to be paid by the university.

 

[purescurve]

I'm all for them getting sales off their jersey, signatures, etc. Not for them to be paid by the university.

Mr. Nolf, I would like to purchase 400000 of your signatures. That might be problematic here.

 

[24 so far]

"We are a capitalist society, but we should be able to wildly profit off the backs of mostly poor youths and they should not be allowed to profit off their own names and likenesses." The argument of some on this thread.

Are we talking about College Athletics now or Corporate America? It's confusing.

 

[The Vak]

Are we talking about College Athletics now or Corporate America? It's confusing.

Everybody in college athletics is profiting wildly and paid according to a free market...except the athletes upon whom the empire is built. Curious number of socialists when it comes to collegiate athletics.

 

[24 so far]

Everybody in college athletics is profiting wildly and paid according to a free market...except the athletes upon whom the empire is built. Curious number of socialists when it comes to collegiate athletics.

It's very clear to me you don't understand the obvious parallels between Corporate America and NCAA Institutions.

I would educate you about it if I thought it would help. I'm convinced it won't.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Everybody in college athletics is profiting wildly and paid according to a free market...except the athletes upon whom the empire is built. Curious number of socialists when it comes to collegiate athletics.

There are the full ride scholarships, free housing and meals (while the rest of us schlubs had to work through college and take out loans). I do understand your point though. How about a trust fund for jersey sales and merchandising for college athletes?

 

[ev_flores0331]

Okay, let's agree these kids get "paid" by the university with tuition, room and board, etc. What's the argument against letting them sell autographs, jerseys, endorsements, and such?

 

[bbwretler]

Okay, let's agree these kids get "paid" by the university with tuition, room and board, etc. What's the argument against letting them sell autographs, jerseys, endorsements, and such?

The argument is: who’s buying them, how and who is marketing them, how much are boosters paying for them, is a price for items talked about or promised during recruitment, and do ahletes play to make a bigger name for themselves which then means a bigger pay day. Perfect way to pay an athlete to come to your school. Make it all about the money.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

The argument is: who’s buying them, how and who is marketing them, how much are boosters paying for them, is a price for items talked about or promised during recruitment, and do ahletes play to make a bigger name for themselves which then means a bigger pay day. Perfect way to pay an athlete to come to your school. Make it all about the money.

Good points

 

[LumbeeIndian]

If the NCAA decides that athletes should be paid, It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see Universities drop their wrestling programs.

 

[LumbeeIndian]

Should programs be financially viable or should we socialize D1 athletics?

Wrestling is my favorite sport so you know my thoughts on that. Lol

 

[jvclark]

Wrestling, I know, not basketball. However intercollegiate wrestling is policed by the NCAA. And the NCAA is really my grievance. Pitino is fired (news reports) for a multitude of NCAA violations including the all-encompassing, failure to exercise institutional control. Pitino is probably no candidate for canonization, and deserves some culpability in this mess. But when will the NCAA be held accountable for this muddle they have created in intercollegiate athletics?

An athletic director, a basketball coach, an assistant basketball coach, an academic official, a number of young athletes, the families of young athletes are all harmed. These are the people the NCAA holds accountable, and in the process promising careers are destroyed. Never once has anyone in the NCAA executive management been candid and declared, ‘we (NCAA) are responsible for this god-awful mess’.

Money, and corrupt, incompetent NCAA officials are the genesis of virtually all problems in NCAA athletics. Just look at the NCAA’s March Madness basketball tournament. Money is flying around like it was deposited into Hurricane Harvey, the NCAA sends in a couple of Barney Fife doubles. “Nothing here to investigate, I would be shocked to find any dishonesty and cheating with these gentlemen”.

Pay these athletes! Just venting my spleen, I’m so p…o..ed!

There isnt enough money available to schools to pay them as much as they are getting now. There would still be scandals(maybe not as many) and there would still be corruptness.

ANY time a coach, recruiter, or greedy agent can get an advantage, they most probably will think about it, or even do it. Giving kids $2000 or so of spending money wont get rid of the problem. It might help, but it will never get rid of it. :-(

 

[ev_flores0331]

If a kid goes to a school and doesn't feel he's getting the love (financial perks) he expected then he can transfer. Might work out better for him, might not, just like changing jobs in the real world, right?

 

[hawkssox1]

Wrestling, I know, not basketball. However intercollegiate wrestling is policed by the NCAA. And the NCAA is really my grievance. Pitino is fired (news reports) for a multitude of NCAA violations including the all-encompassing, failure to exercise institutional control. Pitino is probably no candidate for canonization, and deserves some culpability in this mess. But when will the NCAA be held accountable for this muddle they have created in intercollegiate athletics?

An athletic director, a basketball coach, an assistant basketball coach, an academic official, a number of young athletes, the families of young athletes are all harmed. These are the people the NCAA holds accountable, and in the process promising careers are destroyed. Never once has anyone in the NCAA executive management been candid and declared, ‘we (NCAA) are responsible for this god-awful mess’.

Money, and corrupt, incompetent NCAA officials are the genesis of virtually all problems in NCAA athletics. Just look at the NCAA’s March Madness basketball tournament. Money is flying around like it was deposited into Hurricane Harvey, the NCAA sends in a couple of Barney Fife doubles. “Nothing here to investigate, I would be shocked to find any dishonesty and cheating with these gentlemen”.

Pay these athletes! Just venting my spleen, I’m so p…o..ed!

Its the FBI NOT the NCAA.

 

[burk11]

Wrestling, I know, not basketball. However intercollegiate wrestling is policed by the NCAA. And the NCAA is really my grievance. Pitino is fired (news reports) for a multitude of NCAA violations including the all-encompassing, failure to exercise institutional control. Pitino is probably no candidate for canonization, and deserves some culpability in this mess. But when will the NCAA be held accountable for this muddle they have created in intercollegiate athletics?

An athletic director, a basketball coach, an assistant basketball coach, an academic official, a number of young athletes, the families of young athletes are all harmed. These are the people the NCAA holds accountable, and in the process promising careers are destroyed. Never once has anyone in the NCAA executive management been candid and declared, ‘we (NCAA) are responsible for this god-awful mess’.

Money, and corrupt, incompetent NCAA officials are the genesis of virtually all problems in NCAA athletics. Just look at the NCAA’s March Madness basketball tournament. Money is flying around like it was deposited into Hurricane Harvey, the NCAA sends in a couple of Barney Fife doubles. “Nothing here to investigate, I would be shocked to find any dishonesty and cheating with these gentlemen”.

Pay these athletes! Just venting my spleen, I’m so p…o..ed!

Shadowing my comments of last week (above), I highly recommend the attached article (below). Spend ten minutes to read the epidemiology of a young athlete becoming pawn to the influence of money. Follow closely the cast-of-characters involved, the detached manner in which money, and people are influenced/manipulated. A fascinating read, and I would anticipate more to follow.

Next time you see the Adidas Logo, Nike Logo or Under Armour Logo stitched onto every uniform in the university’s intercollegiate wardrobe ask the questions; “where did that come from”(?); “where the hell is the NCAA in this matter” (?).

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/...-region&region=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well

 

[crossfacecradle]

Okay, let's agree these kids get "paid" by the university with tuition, room and board, etc. What's the argument against letting them sell autographs, jerseys, endorsements, and such?

Rich boosters paying huge money for "jerseys and autographs". How do people not understand how easily corrupted that would be?

 

[The Vak]

Rich boosters paying huge money for "jerseys and autographs". How do people not understand how easily corrupted that would be?

As opposed to now, where it's the Wild West when it all happens under the table and the only one penalized in any meaningful . As if this would dramatically shift the power structure in collegiate sports? It would just be shifting the money from going to the university to the kids who are generating the revenue.