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Russia conscripts 150K.....Iran readies more troops....

It's going to get ugly, quick.

Those we tried to get on our side are now wondering where we are as they are bombed by the Russians. I don't know how we fix this, or if it can be fixed.
 
Oh and for those who claim I'm some sort of lib, Obama should have handled this differently from the start. Either go full in to support the rebels in the initial term, or stay the hell out. This half-ass thing we did was really really ugly.

Feeling guilty?
 
It's gonna get super messy........Obama is being poked with a geo-strategic stick. What assets we had there are being systematically removed, and we aren't lifting a finger to prevent it.(not saying we necessarily "should")

And to think that the rumor of a Russian officer walked into a US military office and told us we had hours to get out planes out of the air over Syria.....AND WE COMPLIED?????? Good God I hope that isn't true. Couple that with discharging soldiers who intervened in Afghanistan and tried to stop Afghani police and military from sexually abusing young boys.....WTF is going on?
 
It's gonna get super messy........Obama is being poked with a geo-strategic stick. What assets we had there are being systematically removed, and we aren't lifting a finger to prevent it.(not saying we necessarily "should")

And to think that the rumor of a Russian officer walked into a US military office and told us we had hours to get out planes out of the air over Syria.....AND WE COMPLIED?????? Good God I hope that isn't true. Couple that with discharging soldiers who intervened in Afghanistan and tried to stop Afghani police and military from sexually abusing young boys.....WTF is going on?


The Obama foreign policy at work. HE is the JV team. This is squarely on his shoulders and NO ONE else's.

I guess the "Everyone loves me so don't do anything that upsets me" foreign policy, just isn't working.
 
Oh and for those who claim I'm some sort of lib, Obama should have handled this differently from the start. Either go full in to support the rebels in the initial term, or stay the hell out. This half-ass thing we did was really really ugly.


We should have never been there. We should have never been in Libya. Yes, Assad and Khadafi were bad guys, but they were bad guys we could work with, and did work with. Obama complained about nation building, then turned around and tried to do it as well. Now the entire Middle East and Africa is a hornets nest.......from Syria, to Yemen, to Libya, and other places........

Like that old saying goes........"Better the devil you know, than the devil you don't. We KNEW how to handle those guys......now? We've created mass chaos all over the region...and all Obama can do is blame Israel?
 
We should have never been there. We should have never been in Libya. Yes, Assad and Khadafi were bad guys, but they were bad guys we could work with, and did work with. Obama complained about nation building, then turned around and tried to do it as well. Now the entire Middle East and Africa is a hornets nest.......from Syria, to Yemen, to Libya, and other places........

Like that old saying goes........"Better the devil you know, than the devil you don't. We KNEW how to handle those guys......now? We've created mass chaos all over the region...and all Obama can do is blame Israel?


Obama's an idiot.
 
Obama's an idiot.

No. No he isn't. He's insanely intelligent. You and I think he's made a mistake. But you can articulate that, like SEC did, or you can post like a 5-year old. Come on.

Also, I think I've mentioned this a few times. My uncle was the deputy undersecretary of defense for policy when the conflict broke out, and then became the undersecretary of defense for policy in 2012 (stayed for about 18 months). I'd love to pick his brain about this whole mess at some point in time.

At the time, I was doing some independent study and I wrote a final research project on the conflict. I tried to get him to sit down and talk with me about it, but sadly he couldn't. It would have been fun to hear how the administration saw all of this playing out.

All that said, I thought at the time we were handling it poorly, and I think we still are.
 
Fareed Zakaria has a good column on this this morning:

Vladimir Putin has been able to act forcefully in Syria not because he’s bolder or more decisive than Barack Obama but because he has a clearer strategy. Putin has an ally, the Assad government. He has enemies, the opponents of the government. He supports his ally and fights those enemies. By comparison, Washington and the West are fundamentally confused.

Whom is the United States for in this struggle? We know whom it is against — the regime of President Bashar al-Assad. Also, the Islamic State, which happens to be the regime’s principal opponent. Also, all the other jihadi groups fighting in Syria — including Jabhat al-Nusra (the al-Qaeda affiliate) and Ahrar al-Sham. Oh, and Hezbollah forces and Iranian forces who have been supporting the Syrian government. The West is against almost every major group fighting in Syria, which makes for moral clarity but strategic incoherence.

Russia’s move is not as brilliant as is being made out. It is a desperate effort to shore up one of the Kremlin’s only foreign allies and risks making Russia the “Great Satan” in the eyes of jihadis everywhere. But at least Putin has a coherent plan. The United States, by contrast, is closely allied with the Iraqi government in its fight against militant Sunnis in that country. But it finds itself fighting on the same side of these militant Sunnis across the border in Syria as they battle the Assad regime.

Washington does back some groups — the Syrian Kurds close to Turkey, moderate forces supported by Jordan close to its border and a small number of other moderate Syrians. But if you consider the major groups vying for control of Damascus, the United States is against almost all of them.

Kenneth Pollack and Barbara Walter describe the administration’s basic approach, which sees all existing fighting forces as inadequate in some way. “The United States is building a new Syrian opposition army. That army is meant to be apolitical, nonsectarian, and highly integrated,” they write in the Washington Quarterly. “When it is ready, it will . . . conquer (liberate) and hold territory against both the Assad regime and the various Sunni jihadist groups. . . . The result would be an inclusive new government with extensive protections for all minority groups.” It would be one thing to have believed that this was possible 15 years ago. But after the experiences in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Yemen, this is fantasy, not foreign policy.

David Petraeus recently proposed an expanded military intervention, creating havens and potentially a no-fly zone to counter Assad’s barrel bombs. But could such a plan defeat the Islamic State? When Petraeus devised a strategy in Iraq to tackle the precursor to this group, he emphasized that “you can’t kill or capture your way out of an industrial-strength insurgency.” His 2006 field manual on counterinsurgency says that “ultimate success” comes only by “protecting the populace.” Commanders must “transition security activities from combat operations to law enforcement as quickly as feasible.”

That’s the problem. The U.S. Army could easily defeat the Islamic State, which has a lightly armed force of fewer than 30,000 men. But then it would own real estate in Syria. Who wants to govern that territory, protect the population and be seen by locals as legitimate? A senior Turkish official told me recently, “We watched you trying to run Iraqi towns, and we will not make America’s mistake.”

If one looks back over the many U.S. interventions around the globe, one factor looms large. When Washington allied with a local force that was capable and viewed as legitimate, it succeeded. But without such locals, all the outside effort, aid, firepower and training can only do so much — whether in Afghanistan, Iraq or Syria.

If Obama’s goal is a peaceful, stable, multisectarian democracy, then it requires a vast U.S. commitment on the scale of the Iraq war. If not, Washington has to accept reality and make some hard decisions. The two big ones are whether to stop opposing Assad and whether to accept that Syria is going to be partitioned.

If defeating the Islamic State is important, then it has to become the overriding priority, allying with any outside forces that will join the fight. If Assad falls and jihadis take Damascus, that would be worse than if Assad stays. This doesn’t mean providing Assad with any support, but allowing him to create an Alawite enclave in Syria, of a kind that is already forming. The Kurds and moderate Syrians are creating their own safe spaces as well. Even if the civil war ends and a country called Syria remains, these groups will not live all intermingled again.

So far in Syria, the West has combined maximalist, uncompromising rhetoric with minimalist, ineffective efforts. It is the yawning gap between the two that is making Vladimir Putin look smart.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...163ec4-6875-11e5-9ef3-fde182507eac_story.html

Also, David Ignatius' column is worth a read:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...fe3bb2-687e-11e5-8325-a42b5a459b1e_story.html
 
It's gonna get super messy.......

4u8u.jpg
 
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We should have never been there. We should have never been in Libya. Yes, Assad and Khadafi were bad guys, but they were bad guys we could work with, and did work with. Obama complained about nation building, then turned around and tried to do it as well. Now the entire Middle East and Africa is a hornets nest.......from Syria, to Yemen, to Libya, and other places........

Like that old saying goes........"Better the devil you know, than the devil you don't. We KNEW how to handle those guys......now? We've created mass chaos all over the region...and all Obama can do is blame Israel?


This is a perfect example of what I was talking about in the other thread. We go in, make changes, don't like what it ends up as then have bigger problems than we started with. Saddam? Another example recently. Again, all we do is exchange one problem for a bigger problem.


We think we have all the answers, but we continually try to put the American ideal into countries that really don't share the American ideal. If you're going in, you go in Charlie Beckwith (original commander of SFOD-D (Delta Force)) style, kill 'em all and let God sort it out. If you aren't going that far, stay the hell out and deal with the results of the internal battles once they clear. And yes, it might take years or decades for them to sort themselves out, if that quickly.
 
Fareed Zakaria has a good column on this this morning:

Vladimir Putin has been able to act forcefully in Syria not because he’s bolder or more decisive than Barack Obama but because he has a clearer strategy. Putin has an ally, the Assad government. He has enemies, the opponents of the government. He supports his ally and fights those enemies. By comparison, Washington and the West are fundamentally confused.

Whom is the United States for in this struggle? We know whom it is against — the regime of President Bashar al-Assad. Also, the Islamic State, which happens to be the regime’s principal opponent. Also, all the other jihadi groups fighting in Syria — including Jabhat al-Nusra (the al-Qaeda affiliate) and Ahrar al-Sham. Oh, and Hezbollah forces and Iranian forces who have been supporting the Syrian government. The West is against almost every major group fighting in Syria, which makes for moral clarity but strategic incoherence.

Russia’s move is not as brilliant as is being made out. It is a desperate effort to shore up one of the Kremlin’s only foreign allies and risks making Russia the “Great Satan” in the eyes of jihadis everywhere. But at least Putin has a coherent plan. The United States, by contrast, is closely allied with the Iraqi government in its fight against militant Sunnis in that country. But it finds itself fighting on the same side of these militant Sunnis across the border in Syria as they battle the Assad regime.

Washington does back some groups — the Syrian Kurds close to Turkey, moderate forces supported by Jordan close to its border and a small number of other moderate Syrians. But if you consider the major groups vying for control of Damascus, the United States is against almost all of them.

Kenneth Pollack and Barbara Walter describe the administration’s basic approach, which sees all existing fighting forces as inadequate in some way. “The United States is building a new Syrian opposition army. That army is meant to be apolitical, nonsectarian, and highly integrated,” they write in the Washington Quarterly. “When it is ready, it will . . . conquer (liberate) and hold territory against both the Assad regime and the various Sunni jihadist groups. . . . The result would be an inclusive new government with extensive protections for all minority groups.” It would be one thing to have believed that this was possible 15 years ago. But after the experiences in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Yemen, this is fantasy, not foreign policy.

David Petraeus recently proposed an expanded military intervention, creating havens and potentially a no-fly zone to counter Assad’s barrel bombs. But could such a plan defeat the Islamic State? When Petraeus devised a strategy in Iraq to tackle the precursor to this group, he emphasized that “you can’t kill or capture your way out of an industrial-strength insurgency.” His 2006 field manual on counterinsurgency says that “ultimate success” comes only by “protecting the populace.” Commanders must “transition security activities from combat operations to law enforcement as quickly as feasible.”

That’s the problem. The U.S. Army could easily defeat the Islamic State, which has a lightly armed force of fewer than 30,000 men. But then it would own real estate in Syria. Who wants to govern that territory, protect the population and be seen by locals as legitimate? A senior Turkish official told me recently, “We watched you trying to run Iraqi towns, and we will not make America’s mistake.”

If one looks back over the many U.S. interventions around the globe, one factor looms large. When Washington allied with a local force that was capable and viewed as legitimate, it succeeded. But without such locals, all the outside effort, aid, firepower and training can only do so much — whether in Afghanistan, Iraq or Syria.

If Obama’s goal is a peaceful, stable, multisectarian democracy, then it requires a vast U.S. commitment on the scale of the Iraq war. If not, Washington has to accept reality and make some hard decisions. The two big ones are whether to stop opposing Assad and whether to accept that Syria is going to be partitioned.

If defeating the Islamic State is important, then it has to become the overriding priority, allying with any outside forces that will join the fight. If Assad falls and jihadis take Damascus, that would be worse than if Assad stays. This doesn’t mean providing Assad with any support, but allowing him to create an Alawite enclave in Syria, of a kind that is already forming. The Kurds and moderate Syrians are creating their own safe spaces as well. Even if the civil war ends and a country called Syria remains, these groups will not live all intermingled again.

So far in Syria, the West has combined maximalist, uncompromising rhetoric with minimalist, ineffective efforts. It is the yawning gap between the two that is making Vladimir Putin look smart.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...163ec4-6875-11e5-9ef3-fde182507eac_story.html

Also, David Ignatius' column is worth a read:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...fe3bb2-687e-11e5-8325-a42b5a459b1e_story.html
OK, he has a clearer strategy - and he's made the decision to boldly move out on that strategy. Jeez, quit defending "nothing"
 
OK, he has a clearer strategy - and he's made the decision to boldly move out on that strategy. Jeez, quit defending "nothing"

Putin is not known for his 'long game' strategic thinking; he is a tactician.

If baiting him into taking sides against ISIS is a US strategy, then we WILL be enabling him to turn Russia into The New Great Satan, drawing the ire of Islamic militants everywhere. If they turn their focus to him, we're less likely to be targeted by them.
 
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Hillary Offers Syria a Libyan-Iraqi-Style Paradise
Posted on October 2, 2015 by DavidSwanson
Americans may find Syria a bit confusing. David Petraeus, sainted hero, has proposed arming al Qaeda, organized devil. Vladimir Putin, reincarnated Hitler, is bombing either ISIS or al Qaeda or their friendly democratic allies, but he shouldn’t be because he’s against overthrowing the Syrian government, also run by Hitler living under the name Assad. Hillary Clinton, liberal socialist, wants to create a no-fly zone, but wouldn’t that make it hard to bomb all the scary Muslims? Wait, are we against Assad or the scary Muslims or both? Aaaaaarrrrgghh! How does this make any sense?

Let’s start over, shall we?

Some basic facts?

We’ll start with the most uncomfortable fact, but one that helps begin to make sense of everything, OK?

The United States military wants to dominate the earth, has “special” forces active in 135 countries, and has troops stationed in some 180 countries. On a map of the world showing nations with no U.S. troops in them, Syria and Iran stand out like sore thumbs, as once-upon-a-time did Iraq and Libya. Syria not only has no U.S. troops; it has Russian troops, and it’s friendly toward Iran, which has no U.S. troops. Overthrowing the Syrian government, like Iraq’s and Libya’s and Iran’s, has been on the Pentagon’s bucket list for the 21st century. As early as 2006, the U.S. government had people on the ground in Syria working to overthrow the government. With the 2011 Arab Spring, the U.S. thought it saw an opportunity, and helped turn the protests violent.

The Syrian government is awful and murderous. It used to torture people for the U.S. government. It, indeed, attacks “its own citizens” (which is always who governments attack that aren’t escapading around the globe attacking other people’s citizens, which in fact most governments never do). If every government that attacked its own citizens had to be overthrown, the list would be unending, and could begin with Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Yemen, Jordan, Israel, Egypt, Iraq, and various other governments just in that region that the U.S. — far from overthrowing — props up, funds, and arms with the weaponry used to commit the attacks. Overthrowing foreign governments and launching wars are in fact illegal acts, and rightly so, regardless of the nature of the governments.

The criminal acts of overthrowing the horrible governments of Iraq and Libya resulted in millions of people being killed, injured, traumatized, and turned into refugees, and the creation of not only worse governments but deadly chaos in those nations and spilling out into the rest of the region. This cannot be a model for what to do to Syria.

Russia should not be arming Syria or bombing Syria. We’re so well trained to think in terms of war, that when we hear that one side of a war is in the wrong, we imagine that must be an argument for backing the other side. “You don’t want the United States bombing Syria? Then you must want Russia bombing Syria! You must want Assad using his deadly ‘barrel bombs’!” In fact, nobody should be arming or bombing anyone in Syria. The United States and numerous allies that have been bombing Syria need to stop. Russia, which has just started, needs to stop. The U.S. media says Russia is bombing where there’s no ISIS, although it said ISIS was there a week ago and seems to have forgotten. Russia shouldn’t stop bombing because it’s bombing the wrong people. There are no right people to bomb. The majority of people who die from bombs are civilians. The majority of people involved with any of the many opposition groups in Syria are opportunists and misguided desperate souls. Every single person in Syria is a person deserving better than a crude “barrel bomb” from a helicopter they hear coming or a far more deadly missile from a foreign jet or drone.

A no fly zone is not a zone in which nobody can fly. It’s a zone in which the United States claims the exclusive right to fly and to shoot out of the sky anyone else who tries it, and to bomb out of existence any weaponry that could threaten U.S. planes, along with any people who happen to be anywhere near any suspected weaponry or near any locations accidentally hit in the process. The history of human catastrophes facilitated by humanitarian “no fly” zones includes Iraq and Libya. Hillary Clinton, motivated by interest in Libya’s oil, wanted a no fly zone in Libya, urged that it be used to overthrow the government, laughed gleefully about killing Gadaffi, and would prefer that you now not look at Libya too closely. A no fly zone for Syria is a declaration of war on Syria.

Hillary Clinton, just to be clear, is not an office holder. She is a private citizen who ought to be shunned from all public discourse. As Secretary of State, she waived restrictions on shipping weapons to brutal governments if they made large “donations” to her foundation. For that, she should be in prison. Nothing worse will be found, no matter how many of her emails are read in a mad pursuit of more minor but colorful offenses.

In 2013, the Obama Administration demanded the right to send missiles into Syria. The plan, kept private, was a massive bombing campaign that would have leveled Syria and set it on a more rapid course toward utter chaos. Obama made claims about chemical weapons attacks by the Syrian government that have never yet been documented, and alleged proof for which fell apart.

Click link for balance:

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/10/hillary-offers-syria-a-libyan-iraqi-style-paradise.html
 
And add Hezbollah to the mix for a ground offensive in Syria.

Here we go, folks.
We are now entering interesting times.

How long do we stay out of it all? Obama is going to be under a ton of pressure to choose a side.
Obama will leave it up to others to take action. The harshest he will be is not clinking champagne glasses with Putin.
 
It's going to get ugly, quick.

Those we tried to get on our side are now wondering where we are as they are bombed by the Russians. I don't know how we fix this, or if it can be fixed.
There were never great solutions. At this point they are less good solutions than ever, you are correct there. BHO has single handily made it that way. Ash Carter said previously we had a responsibility to support the rebels we supplied and trained. I wonder if that's still operative? If not our enemy's and friends will see that and react according to their needs. Thanks to this POTUS. our friends no longer trust us and our enemies no longer fear us. That's not a good situation.
 
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No. No he isn't. He's insanely intelligent. You and I think he's made a mistake. But you can articulate that, like SEC did, or you can post like a 5-year old. Come on.

Also, I think I've mentioned this a few times. My uncle was the deputy undersecretary of defense for policy when the conflict broke out, and then became the undersecretary of defense for policy in 2012 (stayed for about 18 months). I'd love to pick his brain about this whole mess at some point in time.

At the time, I was doing some independent study and I wrote a final research project on the conflict. I tried to get him to sit down and talk with me about it, but sadly he couldn't. It would have been fun to hear how the administration saw all of this playing out.

All that said, I thought at the time we were handling it poorly, and I think we still are.

But there is a large gap between "book" smart and "common sense" smart. Obama is book smart.
 
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Fareed Zakaria has a good column on this this morning:

Vladimir Putin has been able to act forcefully in Syria not because he’s bolder or more decisive than Barack Obama but because he has a clearer strategy. Putin has an ally, the Assad government. He has enemies, the opponents of the government. He supports his ally and fights those enemies. By comparison, Washington and the West are fundamentally confused.

Whom is the United States for in this struggle? We know whom it is against — the regime of President Bashar al-Assad. Also, the Islamic State, which happens to be the regime’s principal opponent. Also, all the other jihadi groups fighting in Syria — including Jabhat al-Nusra (the al-Qaeda affiliate) and Ahrar al-Sham. Oh, and Hezbollah forces and Iranian forces who have been supporting the Syrian government. The West is against almost every major group fighting in Syria, which makes for moral clarity but strategic incoherence.

Russia’s move is not as brilliant as is being made out. It is a desperate effort to shore up one of the Kremlin’s only foreign allies and risks making Russia the “Great Satan” in the eyes of jihadis everywhere. But at least Putin has a coherent plan. The United States, by contrast, is closely allied with the Iraqi government in its fight against militant Sunnis in that country. But it finds itself fighting on the same side of these militant Sunnis across the border in Syria as they battle the Assad regime.

Washington does back some groups — the Syrian Kurds close to Turkey, moderate forces supported by Jordan close to its border and a small number of other moderate Syrians. But if you consider the major groups vying for control of Damascus, the United States is against almost all of them.

Kenneth Pollack and Barbara Walter describe the administration’s basic approach, which sees all existing fighting forces as inadequate in some way. “The United States is building a new Syrian opposition army. That army is meant to be apolitical, nonsectarian, and highly integrated,” they write in the Washington Quarterly. “When it is ready, it will . . . conquer (liberate) and hold territory against both the Assad regime and the various Sunni jihadist groups. . . . The result would be an inclusive new government with extensive protections for all minority groups.” It would be one thing to have believed that this was possible 15 years ago. But after the experiences in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Yemen, this is fantasy, not foreign policy.

David Petraeus recently proposed an expanded military intervention, creating havens and potentially a no-fly zone to counter Assad’s barrel bombs. But could such a plan defeat the Islamic State? When Petraeus devised a strategy in Iraq to tackle the precursor to this group, he emphasized that “you can’t kill or capture your way out of an industrial-strength insurgency.” His 2006 field manual on counterinsurgency says that “ultimate success” comes only by “protecting the populace.” Commanders must “transition security activities from combat operations to law enforcement as quickly as feasible.”

That’s the problem. The U.S. Army could easily defeat the Islamic State, which has a lightly armed force of fewer than 30,000 men. But then it would own real estate in Syria. Who wants to govern that territory, protect the population and be seen by locals as legitimate? A senior Turkish official told me recently, “We watched you trying to run Iraqi towns, and we will not make America’s mistake.”

If one looks back over the many U.S. interventions around the globe, one factor looms large. When Washington allied with a local force that was capable and viewed as legitimate, it succeeded. But without such locals, all the outside effort, aid, firepower and training can only do so much — whether in Afghanistan, Iraq or Syria.

If Obama’s goal is a peaceful, stable, multisectarian democracy, then it requires a vast U.S. commitment on the scale of the Iraq war. If not, Washington has to accept reality and make some hard decisions. The two big ones are whether to stop opposing Assad and whether to accept that Syria is going to be partitioned.

If defeating the Islamic State is important, then it has to become the overriding priority, allying with any outside forces that will join the fight. If Assad falls and jihadis take Damascus, that would be worse than if Assad stays. This doesn’t mean providing Assad with any support, but allowing him to create an Alawite enclave in Syria, of a kind that is already forming. The Kurds and moderate Syrians are creating their own safe spaces as well. Even if the civil war ends and a country called Syria remains, these groups will not live all intermingled again.

So far in Syria, the West has combined maximalist, uncompromising rhetoric with minimalist, ineffective efforts. It is the yawning gap between the two that is making Vladimir Putin look smart.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...163ec4-6875-11e5-9ef3-fde182507eac_story.html

Also, David Ignatius' column is worth a read:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...fe3bb2-687e-11e5-8325-a42b5a459b1e_story.html
YOu say "one" ally I say 3:

Syria, Iran, Iraq.
 
There were never great solutions. At this point they are less good solutions than ever, you are correct there. BHO has single handily made it that way. Ash Carter said previously we had a responsibility to support the rebels we supplied and trained. I wonder if that's still operative? If not our enemy's and friends will see that and react according to their needs. Thanks to this POTUS. our friends no longer trust us and our enemies no longer fear us. That's not a good situation.
I wonder if that has anything to do with his previous job as arms procuror?
 
But there is a large gap between "book" smart and "common sense" smart. Obama is book smart.

100% incorrect.

He may have political views and agendas that you don't agree with, but he's plenty common sense smart.

You can questions someone's decisions and directives without attacking their intelligence. Honestly, you come across as a better critic when you do the former. It's a lesson that so many on here (from back in the Bush years to now) should learn. I'm also guilty of it sometimes. But you'll never see me question say, Ted Cruz's intelligence. I think he's got bizarre views and is motivated from an awful place (a desire to place his religion over his country), but I still think he's really smart.
 
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There were never great solutions. At this point they are less good solutions than ever, you are correct there. BHO has single handily made it that way. Ash Carter said previously we had a responsibility to support the rebels we supplied and trained. I wonder if that's still operative? If not our enemy's and friends will see that and react according to their needs. Thanks to this POTUS. our friends no longer trust us and our enemies no longer fear us. That's not a good situation.


Disagree. Most all of our friends still trust us. Our enemies still fear us. Israel can go pound sand.

We'll see how this plays out. I'm not optimistic about it, but I understand that there is probably way more going on that we aren't seeing, and I also still believe that our leaders will act in our best interests. Time will tell if they are making the right moves. Right now, it doesn't seem so at all.
 
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100% incorrect.

He may have political views and agendas that you don't agree with, but he's plenty common sense smart.

You can questions someone's decisions and directives without attacking their intelligence. Honestly, you come across as a better critic when you do the former. It's a lesson that so many on here (from back in the Bush years to now) should learn. I'm also guilty of it sometimes. But you'll never see me question say, Ted Cruz's intelligence. I think he's got bizarre views and is motivated from an awful place (a desire to place his religion over his country), but I still think he's really smart.

Perfectly said.
 
The Obama foreign policy at work. HE is the JV team. This is squarely on his shoulders and NO ONE else's.

I guess the "Everyone loves me so don't do anything that upsets me" foreign policy, just isn't working.
Yes, exactly what hppens when democrats are in charge. Just bend over and take it.
 
Disagree. Most all of our friends still trust us. Our enemies still fear us. Israel can go pound sand.

We'll see how this plays out. I'm not optimistic about it, but I understand that there is probably way more going on that we aren't seeing, and I also still believe that our leaders will act in our best interests. Time will tell if they are making the right moves. Right now, it doesn't seem so at all.
Before the idiot in the WH was elected, Israel was our best ally on the planet. Even better than England.
 
But there is a large gap between "book" smart and "common sense" smart. Obama is book smart.
So right. Insanely smart and poor judgement is a bad combination in a person. They are two very different things. BHO made fun of Romney for what He said about Russia but it looks like BHO was the idiot in that exchange
 
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You people are a joke. There is no stomach to send in US forces to Syria. You would be the first ones ripping him for combat deaths in a no win situation. The mistake was getting involved at all. Ultimately, we don't care.
 
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100% incorrect.

He may have political views and agendas that you don't agree with, but he's plenty common sense smart.

You can questions someone's decisions and directives without attacking their intelligence. Honestly, you come across as a better critic when you do the former. It's a lesson that so many on here (from back in the Bush years to now) should learn. I'm also guilty of it sometimes. But you'll never see me question say, Ted Cruz's intelligence. I think he's got bizarre views and is motivated from an awful place (a desire to place his religion over his country), but I still think he's really smart.
His knee jerk responses on day-to-day issues proves he is not common sense smart. I will give him books, his common sense smarts lag behind his books.
 
Why is adding 150,000 conscripts to an army that is considered ineffective worrisome? Russia's standing army has gigantic issues with substance abuse, desertion, noncoms killing recruits through brutality and neglect, and poor performance in the field. Russia has elite special forces, that is true. They have the ability to meddle. But, I don't fear 150,000 conscripts who are miserable and just want to get drunk wearing the uniform of the Russian Army.
Not one American soldier should be on the ground in Syria until a viable political solution is in sight.
 
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Obama done gave iran the big bucks and the go ahead to nuke us,they got the idea it's now fine to kill usa trained rebels in syria
 
Disagree. Most all of our friends still trust us. Our enemies still fear us. Israel can go pound sand.

We'll see how this plays out. I'm not optimistic about it, but I understand that there is probably way more going on that we aren't seeing, and I also still believe that our leaders will act in our best interests. Time will tell if they are making the right moves. Right now, it doesn't seem so at all.

I'm not so sure about that. My experience over there is that they fear power and the will to use it. If we hesitate our friends lose faith and it provides comfort to our enemies.

We did all of that when BHO drew the red line in the sand and it was crossed and we did nothing.
 
Disagree. Most all of our friends still trust us. Our enemies still fear us. Israel can go pound sand.

We'll see how this plays out. I'm not optimistic about it, but I understand that there is probably way more going on that we aren't seeing, and I also still believe that our leaders will act in our best interests. Time will tell if they are making the right moves. Right now, it doesn't seem so at all.
Russia is aggressively moving in areas with their military, China is building Islands fifteen hundred miles from their shore in the South China Sea and they both fear us? Egypt, the Saudis, the emirates and even Israel are hedging their bets and they trust us? What the hell are you smoking?
 
It's gonna get super messy........Obama is being poked with a geo-strategic stick. What assets we had there are being systematically removed, and we aren't lifting a finger to prevent it.(not saying we necessarily "should")

And to think that the rumor of a Russian officer walked into a US military office and told us we had hours to get out planes out of the air over Syria.....AND WE COMPLIED?????? Good God I hope that isn't true. Couple that with discharging soldiers who intervened in Afghanistan and tried to stop Afghani police and military from sexually abusing young boys.....WTF is going on?

Soooo, you're saying we should have kept our planes there to attack the Russians? Over Syria? Really?
 
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