Seeding 157 at NCAAs

[MSU158]

I though Synder did not have enough matches to warrant a RPI rating and therefore could not get a high seed. ?????

I would have thought that until the committee petitioned for the qualifier to matter more. I think that is the avenue they will use to get Snyder seeded higher. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if no RPI and limited matches inevitably hurts him. However, being undefeated and having several quality wins may keep him high considering he has the convincing head to head win over Coon.

 

[Hicksy87]

IMar gets the #1 seed. Defending National Champ who loses his first career match mid season then avenges that loss at end of season conference championship. I would be mildly surprised if IMar did not get the #1 seed.

 

[140wildcatv2]

DI wrestling does this to a degree by using the following in bold:

Criteria Weighted Percentage
Head-to-Head 25%
Quality Wins 20%
Common opponents 10%
RPI 10%
Qualifying placement 10%
Coaches Rank 10%
Win % 10%
Number of matches 5%

1.)The first 25% is eliminated.
2.) Martinez is 26-1, but I only really see 8(Top20) quality wins(Smith, Ryan,Cooper, MurphyX2, BergerX2 and Nolf). Nolf is 29-1, but he only has 8 as well(Brascetta,Walsh, Smith, Martinez, Murphy, Ryan, Berger and Cooper). He would have had 9, but Minotti won't count due to injury keeping him out of his qualifier. Gantt is 24-0 and has 10(CooperX2, Walsh, Pack, Boyle, Cottrell, Berger, Barnes and BrascettaX2).
3.)Pretty even. Gantt beat Cooper twice by Major. Martinez and Nolf beat Cooper by TF. Gantt beat Berger by Major, Martinez beat him 2x by regular decision. Nolf beat Berger by TF. Nolf beat Walsh by Major and Walsh was Gantt's only close match winning in OT. Gantt beat Brascetta by the exact same score as Nolf and also beat him a 2nd time.
4.)They are all top 3. I need to see the final RPI to see the exact order.
5.)Gantt and Martinez are even. Nolf taking 2nd loses this criteria.
6.)Interested to see the newest rankings. This is the one criteria I think could hurt Gantt.
7.)Gantt wins by being undefeated.
8.)Negligible difference.

Couple of things:
--Pretty sure they eliminated the number of matches criteria and just increased the coaches ranking from 10 to 15%
--I believe quality wins is defined as wins over gold or silver standard wrestlers (although that may be wrong/have changed) and are unique wins. So Martinez's two wins over Murphy only count as 1 for the criteria.

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

It is VERY important to remember the seeding committee(made up of less than 1/2 being actual DI wrestling coaches) and seeding criteria are LITERALLY designed to REMOVE the "eye test". The current system is designed to try to 100% remove opinions and go SOLELY by the numbers.

With that said, it is VERY hard to seed one loss wrestlers over an undefeated guy that wrestled his entire team schedule that included Midlands,#2 Iowa, #3 OkState, #5 VTech, #9 Nebraska and #13 Minnesota. You can't control what ranked guys are in your weight class, but his team wrestled a very tough schedule.

Also, the committee did set a precedent by seeding an undefeated Port #1 when Stieber and Retherford went 1-1 against each other during the season. In the end, Port did beat 1 of the 2 at that tournament, although he did get upset earlier!

Excellent points...thank you. I'm really looking forward to seeing what the committee does. For now, I'm just stoked that Rhoads made it to the big dance.

 

[CradleKing26]

I think they have to give Gantt the 1 seed. He's undefeated and beat everyone in front of him. While I think everyone knows that IMAR and Nolf are the two to beat, you can't seed it that way. They have criteria to follow which eliminates "the eye test". Miller is also undefeated other than an injury default, but has no elite wins.

Hopefully, that means the seeds look like this:

1. Gantt
2.Miller
3.Imar
4.Nolf

There is no way in the planet that Imar and Nolf are the 3rd and 4th best guys at this weight. But this way they can still follow their criterion and have the two best wrestlers seperated.

Some have mentioned on here that it would be good for Iowa if Nolf got beat before the finals. That may be true to some degree, but with the way he has been putting up Bonus Points, even if he gets 3rd he'll likely still score more team pts for PSU than the majority of the NCAA champions will for their respective teams.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Defending NCAA champ with 1 loss in his college career, and the guy who's beaten him. Gantt, meanwhile, has "shown up." Four Aces beats a pair of Jacks.

It will be interesting to see, but I think IMar and Nolf are well above the rest of the field. I'm not as impressed with Gantt as some of you. Very good wrestler, but I don't think he's on the same level as IMar or Nolf.

Without Stoll at 100%, I don't think we have any chance to threaten PSU for the title. I'd probably hope for Nolf and IMar at 2 and 3 if I thought we had any shot. I agree that it's not Gantt's fault that he didn't face Nolf or IMar. Then, again, it's not Miller's fault that he had an easy schedule, either. Since IMar's and Nolf's losses are only to each other, I think that changes things, too. If either guy had lost to anyone else, I think Gantt is the clear #1. Since that's not the case, I think you put IMar at 1, Nolf and Gantt at 2 and 3, and Miller at 4. And I'll be shocked if it's not IMar and Nolf for the rubber match in the finals.

 

[dicemen99]

Couple of things:
--Pretty sure they eliminated the number of matches criteria and just increased the coaches ranking from 10 to 15%
--I believe quality wins is defined as wins over gold or silver standard wrestlers (although that may be wrong/have changed) and are unique wins. So Martinez's two wins over Murphy only count as 1 for the criteria.

This is correct. Top 20 is not quality wins, it is gold or silver (which preallocate the bids). So MSU 158s quality opponent list is probably missing a few (e.g. Nolf win over Kamal Shakur), but it will take me too much work to figure it out to the letter. Suffice to say with coaches ranking at 15% and winning percentage at 10%, I'm leaning towards Martinez having the #1 seed. Yes, Gantt is undefeated, but they tweeked the rules this year and Martinez is going to have a clear advantage in the coaches ranking. The only advantage Gantt will have is winning percentage.

1. Martinez
2. Gantt
3. Nolf

 

[rossel 33]

Imar #1
Nolf #2
Gantt#3

That's the way they should be seeded, imho. Imar & Nolf have had to face each other twice so far, splitting wins. #1 v 2 and then #2 v 1. Gantt hasn't had to face either. If he had, he'd likely have losses.

Seeding should take into account strength of opponents. Common sense can't be thrown out the window.

 

[GOLDBANGER]

A little memory lane. Retherford beats Steiber in the dual meet. Steiber beats Retherford in the B1G finals. Port goes undefeated in a weaker conference. Who is the #1 seed at nationals?

 

[Onceafish]

A little memory lane. Retherford beats Steiber in the dual meet. Steiber beats Retherford in the B1G finals. Port goes undefeated in a weaker conference. Who is the #1 seed at nationals?

Going into the post-season that year, Port was ranked first by the coaches panel, Retherford second and Stieber third.

This year is different. Nolf was one, Martinez two, Miller three and Gantt four going into the post season. I can see Gantt jumping over Nolf and Miler because he won his conference, but he's not going to jump over Martinez.

The final coaches ranking will matter a lot since most of the other criteria are a wash. (And the coaches poll is given more weight than the winning percentage, so the fact that Gantt is undefeated is not going to get him the top seed.)

I'm guessing 1. IMar, 2. Gantt, 3. Nolf

 

[140wildcatv2]

This is correct. Top 20 is not quality wins, it is gold or silver (which preallocate the bids). So MSU 158s quality opponent list is probably missing a few (e.g. Nolf win over Kamal Shakur), but it will take me too much work to figure it out to the letter. Suffice to say with coaches ranking at 15% and winning percentage at 10%, I'm leaning towards Martinez having the #1 seed. Yes, Gantt is undefeated, but they tweeked the rules this year and Martinez is going to have a clear advantage in the coaches ranking. The only advantage Gantt will have is winning percentage.

1. Martinez
2. Gantt
3. Nolf

Given a quick glance at the results I've come up with this:
Unique Quality Wins
Gantt has 10: Parsons, Cooper, Pack, Walsh, Boyle, Atkinson, Cottrell, Berger, Barnes, Brascetta
Imar has 7: Mascola, Jojo, Ryan, Cooper, Murphy, Berger, Nolf
Nolf has 9: Brascetta, Walsh, Shakur, Jojo, Berger, Imar, Murphy, Ryan, Cooper
Now my understanding is the quality win criteria isn't an all or nothing so just because Gantt has the most quality wins of the 3 doesn't mean he receives the full 20% of the criteria.

So the way I see it assuming the final coaches ranking is 1 Imar, 2 Nolf, 3 Gantt and RPI didn't drastically change (previous RPI had Gantt at 1, Nolf at 3, and Imar at 9)

The only 2 close to Gantt by criteria would obviously be Nolf and Imar.
Matched to the criteria against Nolf
Theres no head to head
Gantt has a slight advantage on quality wins
They have similar results against common opponents (although Nolf's are slightly more dominant-not sure if they figure that in)
Gantt would have an advantage in win% and conference placement and RPI (unless Nolf passed him)
Nolf would (likely) be higher in the coaches ranking

Matched to criteria against Imar
Again no head to head
Gantt with a larger advantage on quality wins
Similar results against common opponents (although Gantt has more dominant wins)
Gantt would have advantage in win% and RPI (doubtful Imar would have jumped him)
Imar would have the higher coaches ranking
Conference placement would be a push

So given that I'm not sure how Gantt won't be seeded 1. The only thing that could change it would be if RPI changed enough to put Nolf ahead of Gantt