Almond Farmers use 10% of Cali's water supply. That's crazy. Is their usage being restricted? Should they be allowed to continue growing them? Do we really need the almond?
Should Obama or Brown place a moratorium on Almond Farming?
- Thread starter YellowSnow51
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I think the only people that should be using water in California are beer, wine, and weed producers.
I just heard that over the past number of years a trillion and a half gallons that could have gone to alleviate or eliminate the problem have been flushed into the Pacific to protect a 2 inch fish under the endangered species act. Now we should protect species but I would mankind would be the most important species to protect. Not as far as the radical left is concerned however.
Actually it wasn't flushed into the ocean. The farmers weren't allowed to used irrigation systems as the delta smelt was used as the scapegoat when in reality the water was sent to cities to water lawns and golf courses. Supposedly the smelt were getting into the irrigation systems and dying. Smelt are notorious reproducers and I find it hard to believe they were really worried about it and instead used this as an excuse for where the water was really sent. A question I have, is who owns that water? Is the water that flows through the farmers land owned by that farmer? Is it owned by the state of California, who can then dictate where it should be used? I don't think that the problem would have been eliminated as it starts with lack of snow cover and overuse, but it would certainly have been alleviated. And also, what is more important, growing food or growing lawns and grass for golf courses?
I have heard that Beverly Hills only recently implemented cutbacks for their usage but not a significant amount. I think what matters most about water usage, is who you are.
What would all the hipsters and wanna be health nuts going to do without their almond milk?
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
I heard that 19% also goes into alfalfa production - about half used for animal feed domestically with the rest mostly shipped to China. Should we smack that down, too?
My answer on both of those (and probably other things) is a very-qualified yes. Here are some of the qualifications....
First, how much of that water is actually lost? If most of it goes back into the water table and can be reused, then that's not necessarily a big deal.
Second, who are we protecting? If we are hammering almond growers but protecting golf courses, I have a problem with our priorities.
Third, what kind of help are we going to give to almond growers? It isn't their fault that we have this problem. Nor is it just one of those unlucky things. To a significant degree, this is a mismanagement problem. We elected the wrong people with the wrong ideas, and we are still electing them. We not only need to get smarter on that front, we also need to accept our shared responsibility - which means some sort of help to ameliorate the hit and aid transition to less water-intensive crops.
And here's a #4 for you conspiracy buffs: To what extent is this a hoax intended to drive up world-wide almond prices? I read that something like 82% of all the worlds almonds are grown in California. This scare should be great for those with stockpiles.
Notice that both these crops - almonds and alfalfa - are grown primarily or significantly for export. It's bad enough when we waste our limited water wealth on dubious things for our own consumption, but how stupid is it to waste this vital and increasingly-scarce resource just to send the product abroad?
The fact that irrigation is needed to grow crops there may indicate that perhaps the wrong crops are being grown.
I don't think there's any doubt about that at all, under current circumstances. But if your family had invested their lives for decades or even generations to get to this point, do you really deserve to be forced into bankruptcy and maybe lose everything? We don't need to hammer people for decisions that looked reasonable at the time, just because we are now panicking (rather than having taken sensible measures years ago).
We (our elected reps) have and continue to be truly awful stewards of America's resources. With some obvious exceptions. We are finally seeing the cost of that criminal level of wanton disregard. We need to act. Almonds (and alfalfa and other crops) may have to take the hit. But we don't have to scapegoat those who have played by the rules up to now.
I heard that 19% also goes into alfalfa production - about half used for animal feed domestically with the rest mostly shipped to China. Should we smack that down, too?
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A majority of the alfalfa goes to feed the huge dairy and beef herds right in California.
I think fruit, vegetable and nut production in CA is pretty important to not only the state economy, but also the US and world economy. CA is the #1 AG state, far ahead of #2 Iowa.
You can't just move production of many of these crops and tree groves to other parts of the country where there is a better supply of water/annual rainfall. Winters are too harsh in the Midwest, Great lakes and NE US. It's too humid and wet in the south and southeast. Wrong soil types, too.
It might get down to who is a higher priority for the existing water supply, humans or crops. Humans can move. It's not so easy to move the crops.
Living in CA is going to become more of a nightmare as time goes by.
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A majority of the alfalfa goes to feed the huge dairy and beef herds right in California.
I think fruit, vegetable and nut production in CA is pretty important to not only the state economy, but also the US and world economy. CA is the #1 AG state, far ahead of #2 Iowa.
You can't just move production of many of these crops and tree groves to other parts of the country where there is a better supply of water/annual rainfall. Winters are too harsh in the Midwest, Great lakes and NE US. It's too humid and wet in the south and southeast. Wrong soil types, too.
It might get down to who is a higher priority for the existing water supply, humans or crops. Humans can move. It's not so easy to move the crops.
Living in CA is going to become more of a nightmare as time goes by.
Good points.
Different crops and a reduction in animal protein consumption should be answers - and sooner rather than later - but we (including me) like our hamburgers too much.
Here's an extended look at the California and related issues from last week.
Democracy Now
Here's an excerpt from the DN piece that I linked above.
Historically, this region has seen droughts of 10 year duration and longer, regularly, it's not frequent, but it's regular, and what the scientists are telling now is that we are going to be seeing more severe, and more frequent droughts going forward. That is why so many of the water experts that I interviewed for this story in The Daily Beast, say that really what we need to be talking about is not to demonize agriculture or demonize a particular plant like almonds or broccoli, what we really need to do is to reform the incentive structure that governs the price of water and the way that we use it in California.
Right now, the experts, pretty much uniformly say that water is still priced too cheaply, especially out in the agricultural areas, and this encourages waste, which Governor Brown, quite rightly, pointed out yesterday, we can't afford. The Governor's Executive Order quite precisely targets the urban areas and asks for smart things; the kind of conservation measures he outlined are only sensible: fixing leaks, leaky pipes, and leaky faucets, and so forth. We can do a lot with that, but you can't leave 80 percent of the problem off of the table by not touching the agricultural districts.
Historically, this region has seen droughts of 10 year duration and longer, regularly, it's not frequent, but it's regular, and what the scientists are telling now is that we are going to be seeing more severe, and more frequent droughts going forward. That is why so many of the water experts that I interviewed for this story in The Daily Beast, say that really what we need to be talking about is not to demonize agriculture or demonize a particular plant like almonds or broccoli, what we really need to do is to reform the incentive structure that governs the price of water and the way that we use it in California.
Right now, the experts, pretty much uniformly say that water is still priced too cheaply, especially out in the agricultural areas, and this encourages waste, which Governor Brown, quite rightly, pointed out yesterday, we can't afford. The Governor's Executive Order quite precisely targets the urban areas and asks for smart things; the kind of conservation measures he outlined are only sensible: fixing leaks, leaky pipes, and leaky faucets, and so forth. We can do a lot with that, but you can't leave 80 percent of the problem off of the table by not touching the agricultural districts.
Here's a link to another Democracy Now bit covering California, water and agribusiness. This focuses more on the meat industry.
Democracy Now #2
Democracy Now #2
From the 2nd DN link:
AARON MATÉ: And Keegan, how does livestock compare to other environmental dangers like fracking, for example?
KEEGAN KUHN:
You know, fracking is a great example. Fracking gets a lot of attention
because of water use. Fracking uses about 100 billion gallons of water
every year in the U.S., which is a tremendous amount of water, but
animal agriculture uses in excess of 34 trillion gallons. So it's
magnitudes greater. And then again the emissions that come from animal
agriculture are about equal to natural gas and petroleum production. So
it's an issue that is vastly more destructive when it comes to water
consumption, water pollution, and even emissions.
AARON MATÉ: And Keegan, how does livestock compare to other environmental dangers like fracking, for example?
KEEGAN KUHN:
You know, fracking is a great example. Fracking gets a lot of attention
because of water use. Fracking uses about 100 billion gallons of water
every year in the U.S., which is a tremendous amount of water, but
animal agriculture uses in excess of 34 trillion gallons. So it's
magnitudes greater. And then again the emissions that come from animal
agriculture are about equal to natural gas and petroleum production. So
it's an issue that is vastly more destructive when it comes to water
consumption, water pollution, and even emissions.
Many Almond or Ammon farmers are going to the drip system instead of flooding fields. There are sensors that tell them if more water is needed. Much more efficient. 80-90% of all the almonds in the world are produced in California. If it wasn't for Almond Pollination revenue the past 10-15 years I doubt the domestic honey industry could have survived on honey income alone.
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