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SIAP: Gable Stevenson must want to be a Good Guy in the WWE, and not a villain

I don’t know how to post Tweets, but Shane Sparks posted his Mt Rushmore of B1G wrestlers of the last ten years: Snyder, Steibler, Retherford, Nickal, and Stevenson.

Stevenson’s reply:

“Take me off and replace me with a Spencer Lee.”
Looking at this list I have to ask is this just College Wrestling or is all wrestling? If its just college that I guess you can probably pull Steveson off at least right now with one championship and one Hodge. That means everyone on this list has at least 3 championships and a Hodge. If you include international competition I guess maybe you pull Nickal off with no senior level world gold medals and 3 NCAA championships and only 1 Hodge? Really had to do.
 
So a 3 time champ and 2 time Hodge winner doesnt make his Mt Rushmore of B10 wrestlers the last 10 years………..🤔
Maybe it does if you have to pull a guy with 4 off to put him there? Or a guy with an an Olympic Gold Medal? I guess you could argue that Zain's or Nickel's brackets were tougher?
 
I don’t know how to post Tweets, but Shane Sparks posted his Mt Rushmore of B1G wrestlers of the last ten years: Snyder, Steibler, Retherford, Nickal, and Stevenson.

Stevenson’s reply:

“Take me off and replace me with a Spencer Lee.”
 
I don’t know how to post Tweets, but Shane Sparks posted his Mt Rushmore of B1G wrestlers of the last ten years: Snyder, Steibler, Retherford, Nickal, and Stevenson.

Stevenson’s reply:

“Take me off and replace me with a Spencer Lee.”
Not sure if it’s just B10s or NCAAs or including international accolades as well but David Taylor was a 4X NCAA finalist and I don’t recall him ever losing in the B10. I believe he set a record when he had 4 pins and a tech at I believe the 2013 tournament. Olympic and World Champ to boot. I think he definitely trumps Retherford, who was 5th, 3X champ.
 
Not sure if it’s just B10s or NCAAs or including international accolades as well but David Taylor was a 4X NCAA finalist and I don’t recall him ever losing in the B10. I believe he set a record when he had 4 pins and a tech at I believe the 2013 tournament. Olympic and World Champ to boot. I think he definitely trumps Retherford, who was 5th, 3X champ.
David Taylor's B1G career started in 2010, which is over 10 years ago. That may explain his exclusion. The graphic title includes "of the last 10 years."
 
I n the real world ... Who really cares what Shane Sparks Thinks of wrestling ??? He is a paid announcer who loves the free Publicity and name drops everyone is giving him over this stuff. He is not exactly a wrestling Guru and his knowledge level is based on limited exposure to NCAA matches over the past few seasons.... i think Spencer will prove he belongs .
 
Maybe it does if you have to pull a guy with 4 off to put him there? Or a guy with an an Olympic Gold Medal? I guess you could argue that Zain's or Nickel's brackets were tougher?

In terms of the toughest bracket, SL 2018 was tougher than any Zain or Bo had to go through at the time and looking back at the future results of the other guys (i.e. Suriano winning it the next year). But SL took some losses his freshman and soph year that might keep him off this list for now. For example, other than Snyder's ice cream match, nobody else got pinned besides Spencer IIRC. If we are factoring in international success to include age level titles, it would be:

1. Snyder (Nuff said)
2.. Striebler (4 NCAA titles, 1 World title)
3. GSteve (1 college title, 1 Olympic Gold, I lost track of how many Cadet/Junior Worlds titles)
4. SL (3 NCAA titles, Cadet and 2 Junior titles)
5. Bo (3 NCAA titles, U23)
6. Zain (3 NCAA titles, Cadet)

This list just factors in titles. If not for his injury/covid, SL is on this easy. Another question to ask is who would win a HWY match between 2017 Snyder and 2022 GSteve. Both were/are coming off Olympic titles. As good as Snyder was at the time, I think GSteve takes it to him.
 
I don’t know how to post Tweets, but Shane Sparks posted his Mt Rushmore of B1G wrestlers of the last ten years: Snyder, Steibler, Retherford, Nickal, and Stevenson.

Stevenson’s reply:

“Take me off and replace me with a Spencer Lee.”
So Shane makes an exception to add a 5th person to mount Rushmore and still somehow leaves Spencer Lee out of his list in the past decade. Pretty weird.
 
That's actually a pretty tough list. I'd take off Nickal and add Spencer.
How did Shane arrive at 5? There are 4 on mount Rushmore. He made an exception to add 1 but still left out Spencer. Funny logic.
 
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So here's the problem. Best college wrestler over the past decade is pretty dang hard. I'd go:

Snyder 3x NCAA Champ, 1 World Title, 1 Olympic Title
Gable 1x NCAA Champ, 1 Olympic Title, 1 Hodge
Spencer 3x NCAA Champ, 2 time Hodge winner
Streebler, 4x NCAA Champ, 1 time Hodge winner

I had to take Streibler over Zain because he was dominant as well... and winning 4 is still an incomprehensible achievement.

Has a case:
Zain, 3x champ, 2 time hodge winner
Nickal, 3x champ, 1 time hodge winner
Nolf, 3x champ, made everyone in the weight look silly for 4 years with the exception of Imar
 
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I don’t know how to post Tweets, but Shane Sparks posted his Mt Rushmore of B1G wrestlers of the last ten years: Snyder, Steibler, Retherford, Nickal, and Stevenson.

Stevenson’s reply:

“Take me off and replace me with a Spencer Lee.”
Who is Gable Stevenson?
 
Maybe he doesn't have Spencer on there because this is a B1G list, and Spencer only has 1 B1G title.
 
In terms of the toughest bracket, SL 2018 was tougher than any Zain or Bo had to go through at the time and looking back at the future results of the other guys (i.e. Suriano winning it the next year). But SL took some losses his freshman and soph year that might keep him off this list for now. For example, other than Snyder's ice cream match, nobody else got pinned besides Spencer IIRC. If we are factoring in international success to include age level titles, it would be:

1. Snyder (Nuff said)
2.. Striebler (4 NCAA titles, 1 World title)
3. GSteve (1 college title, 1 Olympic Gold, I lost track of how many Cadet/Junior Worlds titles)
4. SL (3 NCAA titles, Cadet and 2 Junior titles)
5. Bo (3 NCAA titles, U23)
6. Zain (3 NCAA titles, Cadet)

This list just factors in titles. If not for his injury/covid, SL is on this easy. Another question to ask is who would win a HWY match between 2017 Snyder and 2022 GSteve. Both were/are coming off Olympic titles. As good as Snyder was at the time, I think GSteve takes it to him.
I don’t think anybody touches GSteve right now or recently. Not even late 1970s or early 80s Dan Gable lol.
 
Pretty good strategery by Sparks to come out with this list, knowing he won’t be in CHA until next year.
 
Shane Sparks on Twitter Nov 11, 2021
"Spencer is phenomenal! But don't get it twisted, top 10 guys at 125 are not nearly as good as top 10 guys at HWT. Not close...Not even close..."

That makes no sense to me. What about you?

I think that is an insane take. Wrestlers at 125 are always superior to HWT, just from the numbers alone. Go to any HS meet and compare the 120lb kids to 220+. It’s not even close, if for no other reason because of numbers. Any 200+ HS kid that can walk across a room without tripping is on the football team. If they wrestle it’s because the wrestling coach has begged them to fill a spot. Meanwhile, the smaller weight classes are filled with kids who have been wrestling their whole life, and who wrestle all year round. When you watch a typical HS meet the competition and skill level is high until you get to about 182. At that point it’s like watching a youth rec league.

With so few good HWT wrestlers in HS, how can that weight be loaded in college? Where did those good wrestlers come from? The answer is, they don’t. Watch some of Cass’s matches where he can turn a guy with a cross face, alone. Easily. The top HWT’s this year are pretty damn good, better than usual. But they are never in the same league as the top 125 pounders; especially over a ten year period. Being able to destroy weak competition doesn’t make you great.




Go to around 2:45. There isn’t a 125 pounder in the country that could be turned like this - not even at DIII.
 
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I n the real world ... Who really cares what Shane Sparks Thinks of wrestling ??? He is a paid announcer who loves the free Publicity and name drops everyone is giving him over this stuff. He is not exactly a wrestling Guru and his knowledge level is based on limited exposure to NCAA matches over the past few seasons.... i think Spencer will prove he belongs .
Spencer has already proven he belongs.
 
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I think that is an insane take. Wrestlers at 125 are always superior to HWT, just from the numbers alone. Go to any HS meet and compare the 120lb kids to 220+. It’s not even close, if for no other reason because of numbers. Any 200+ HS kid that can walk across a room without tripping is on the football team. If they wrestle it’s because the wrestling coach has begged them to fill a spot. Meanwhile, the smaller weight classes are filled with kids who have been wrestling their whole life, and who wrestle all year round. When you watch a typical HS meet the competition and skill level is high until you get to about 182. At that point it’s like watching a youth rec league.

With so few good HWT wrestlers in HS, how can that weight be loaded in college? Where did those good wrestlers come from? The answer is, they don’t. Watch some of Cass’s matches where he can turn a guy with a cross face, alone. Easily. The top HWT’s this year are pretty damn good, better than usual. But they are never in the same league as the top 125 pounders; especially over a ten year period. Being able to destroy weak competition doesn’t make you great.




Go to around 2:45. There isn’t a 125 pounder in the country that could be turned like this - not even at DIII.

it is really nonsensical that he thinks HWT is more skilled than 125.
 
I think that is an insane take. Wrestlers at 125 are always superior to HWT, just from the numbers alone. Go to any HS meet and compare the 120lb kids to 220+. It’s not even close, if for no other reason because of numbers. Any 200+ HS kid that can walk across a room without tripping is on the football team. If they wrestle it’s because the wrestling coach has begged them to fill a spot. Meanwhile, the smaller weight classes are filled with kids who have been wrestling their whole life, and who wrestle all year round. When you watch a typical HS meet the competition and skill level is high until you get to about 182. At that point it’s like watching a youth rec league.
As a former room tripping HWT I kind of resent this comment although I also kind of agree with it. There is obviously much more skill in high school at the middle weights. The lower weights have a lot of guys that are young and only on the team because they can make the weight and HWT has a lot of guys that are also on the the football team that just want something to do in the offseason or want to help their footwork. There are also a guys at both those weights that wrestle all year round and have wrestled for years just not quite as many. I think just saying that a move that works at HWT that would not work at 125 though proves a huge skill gap is oversimplification. At the lower weights flexibility plays a much bigger role than strength and probably leverage where at the higher weights strength and leverage play a much bigger role than flexibility. Gable Steveson is an an example of HWT with lightweight flexibility but he is also as strong as the rest of the HWT field. If he was not he would not succeed at that weight class.
 
Shane Sparks on Twitter Nov 11, 2021
"Spencer is phenomenal! But don't get it twisted, top 10 guys at 125 are not nearly as good as top 10 guys at HWT. Not close...Not even close..."

That makes no sense to me. What about you?

Bad take by Shane.
 
As a former room tripping HWT I kind of resent this comment although I also kind of agree with it. There is obviously much more skill in high school at the middle weights. The lower weights have a lot of guys that are young and only on the team because they can make the weight and HWT has a lot of guys that are also on the the football team that just want something to do in the offseason or want to help their footwork. There are also a guys at both those weights that wrestle all year round and have wrestled for years just not quite as many. I think just saying that a move that works at HWT that would not work at 125 though proves a huge skill gap is oversimplification. At the lower weights flexibility plays a much bigger role than strength and probably leverage where at the higher weights strength and leverage play a much bigger role than flexibility. Gable Steveson is an an example of HWT with lightweight flexibility but he is also as strong as the rest of the HWT field. If he was not he would not succeed at that weight class.

Spot on. 125 and heavyweight wrestling styles can't be compared 1:1. The size, weight, strength, speed, flexibility all affect the physics of what is capable in each weight class. HWT is never going to be as dynamic and as technical of a weight class. Currently Steveson has the amazing combination of being both the most physically gifted and has the best technique by a good margin.
 
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