SIAP: U. S. assets can eliminate national debt

[uihawk82]

I was just reading some of the posts in the recent thread about the House passing aid to Ukraine, etc. Some people bitching about spending more money. Others mentioning on top of tax cuts also. Now, the 2017 tax cut was a total effing gift to the top few percent of earners and wealthy as well as corporations were just given carte blanche to get buy backs of stocks and remain paying little to no taxes. Of course this was all done by the Repubs. The same repubs that have so many reps who parrot Putin.

But dont you realize that the U. S. govt has a huge amount of assets on their ledger to pay off the debt.

Let's name a few, from what I have read there is over $100 trillion in oil and gas reserves to be leased. There are trillions in mineral rights. The govt can always put up tolls on interstates to help make money to pay for infrastructure.

At least Biden and the Dems put in that law that corporations have to pay at least 15% tax on earnings (although the big money businesses will try to hide and cheat their away from paying taxes).

Do you agree with this assessment that can be found on the web?

 

[DogBoyRy]

I was just reading some of the posts in the recent thread about the House passing aid to Ukraine, etc. Some people bitching about spending more money. Others mentioning on top of tax cuts also. Now, the 2017 tax cut was a total effing gift to the top few percent of earners and wealthy as well as corporations were just given carte blanche to get buy backs of stocks and remain paying little to no taxes. Of course this was all done by the Repubs. The same repubs that have so many reps who parrot Putin.

But dont you realize that the U. S. govt has a huge amount of assets on their ledger to pay off the debt.

Let's name a few, from what I have read there is over $100 trillion in oil and gas reserves to be leased. There are trillions in mineral rights. The govt can always put up tolls on interstates to help make money to pay for infrastructure.

At least Biden and the Dems put in that law that corporations have to pay at least 15% tax on earnings (although the big money businesses will try to hide and cheat their away from paying taxes).

Do you agree with this assessment that can be found on the web?

I missed that corp tax change but could see it hidden in the deficit reduction act or some other disaster of his.
Can you provide a link?
TIA

 

[seminoleed]

The problem is the money generated by those assets will never be applied to debt; it'll just go to pay for more and more social decay.

 

[biggreydogs]

 

[markfromj]

The problem is the money generated by those assets will never be applied to debt; it'll just go to pay for more and more social decay.

False.

 

[Moral]

View embedded media

Always nice to see BabylonBee. Just the best humor.

 

[DooBi]

Could you imagine the backlash by the Rs if a D tried to do that or vise versa.

 

[The Tradition]

False.

SureJan.gif

 

[Tiny Hands Trump]

Always nice to see BabylonBee. Just the best humor.

Conservatives are getting better at humor and it is making the left nervous!

 

[uihawk82]

I missed that corp tax change but could see it hidden in the deficit reduction act or some other disaster of his.
Can you provide a link?
TIA

I just googled "biden mandatory 15 corporate tax" and a lot of links came up. here is one link

https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/bidens-15-corporate-minimum-tax-hits-kkr-blackstone-whirlpool-in-first-year-de37376f

Of course, the companies will get their lawyers etc to try to evade this to some degree.

President Biden has secured major reforms to crack down on corporate tax avoidance and ensure that large corporations start paying more of their fair share, including a 15 percent corporate minimum tax and a surcharge on large, publicly-traded corporations that buy back their own stock.Mar 11, 2024

FACT SHEET: The President's Budget Cuts Taxes for Working ...​

 

[uihawk82]

The problem is the money generated by those assets will never be applied to debt; it'll just go to pay for more and more social decay.

Not if Congress passes a bill specifically to pay off or pay down the deft by selling these assets or generating more assets. But we all know it is mostly a pie in the sky wish because the REpubs do not want to get rid of the debt as it is a major issue they love to fund raise off of and run for office off of, even though Repubs have created the majority of the debt they rail about it. We have too many stupd, sucker voters who believe that Repubs want to do something about the debt.

 

[fsu1jreed]

View embedded media

Lol, still posting Babylon Bee shit?

 

[Finance85]

I was just reading some of the posts in the recent thread about the House passing aid to Ukraine, etc. Some people bitching about spending more money. Others mentioning on top of tax cuts also. Now, the 2017 tax cut was a total effing gift to the top few percent of earners and wealthy as well as corporations were just given carte blanche to get buy backs of stocks and remain paying little to no taxes. Of course this was all done by the Repubs. The same repubs that have so many reps who parrot Putin.

But dont you realize that the U. S. govt has a huge amount of assets on their ledger to pay off the debt.

Let's name a few, from what I have read there is over $100 trillion in oil and gas reserves to be leased. There are trillions in mineral rights. The govt can always put up tolls on interstates to help make money to pay for infrastructure.

At least Biden and the Dems put in that law that corporations have to pay at least 15% tax on earnings (although the big money businesses will try to hide and cheat their away from paying taxes).

Do you agree with this assessment that can be found on the web?

Um, this theory doesn't work. Assets would have to be converted to cash.

Your preamble tells us all we need to know about your political leanings.

 

[uihawk82]

Um, this theory doesn't work. Assets would have to be converted to cash.

Your preamble tells us all we need to know about your political leanings.

My political leanings have nothing to do with this topic. Mineral, gas and oil rights can be converted to cash thru leases or selling the land outright. But again you cant deny that when Repubs get a chance to fix things like immigration (as in the latest Lankston Murphy bill), or doing infrastructure (just a talking pt during trumps 4 years), or their plan to cancel or change the ACA health insur act, that the Repubs never fix anything or try to because they want bitching topics.

Prove to me I am wrong by naming some major problems the Repubs have fixed in the last 20 years.

 

[Finance85]

My political leanings have nothing to do with this topic. Mineral, gas and oil rights can be converted to cash thru leases or selling the land outright. But again you cant deny that when Repubs get a chance to fix things like immigration (as in the latest Lankston Murphy bill), or doing infrastructure (just a talking pt during trumps 4 years), or their plan to cancel or change the ACA health insur act, that the Repubs never fix anything or try to because they want bitching topics.

Prove to me I am wrong by naming some major problems the Repubs have fixed in the last 20 years.

Your political leanings have everything to do with this topic. You started off with a rant against the Trump tax cuts, including not understanding the repatriation of corporate cash. When you threw in the tolls on interstates, you solidified your position.

We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem. The answer isn't continuing trying to raise more revenue, that's never going to be enough. The answer is to cut spending to 18% or less of GDP, and paying down the debt.

 

[ft254]

Your political leanings have everything to do with this topic. You started off with a rant against the Trump tax cuts, including not understanding the repatriation of corporate cash. When you threw in the tolls on interstates, you solidified your position.

We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem. The answer isn't continuing trying to raise more revenue, that's never going to be enough. The answer is to cut spending to 18% or less of GDP, and paying down the debt.

Spend problem bullshit. I love you have finance in your avatar. Conservatives are full of shit with their adequate revenue crap.

Decades of revenue shortages = deficit. Hate to break it to you to financial genius but the tax cut craze did not start with the Orange Turd. We had a balanced budget and Duh!bya gave it away and instigated tax cuts to ensure it would continue.

Republican administrations devastate the economy and Democrats come in to clean up. Don't pretend this isn't true. If we did hadn't had the Republican tax cuts our economy would be in much better shape if not stable. The more money in in the bank, the better off the country would be.

And I don't have finance in my avatar.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Your political leanings have everything to do with this topic. You started off with a rant against the Trump tax cuts, including not understanding the repatriation of corporate cash.

Hillary had plans to repatriate overseas corporate cash, too. The difference is how much tax would be collected on that repatriated cash. Hillary's plan was overly generous, imo. Trump's plan was a giveaway.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I have read there is over $100 trillion in oil and gas reserves to be leased.

Probably right, but those reserves need to stay in the ground.

 

[abby97]

I was just reading some of the posts in the recent thread about the House passing aid to Ukraine, etc. Some people bitching about spending more money. Others mentioning on top of tax cuts also. Now, the 2017 tax cut was a total effing gift to the top few percent of earners and wealthy as well as corporations were just given carte blanche to get buy backs of stocks and remain paying little to no taxes. Of course this was all done by the Repubs. The same repubs that have so many reps who parrot Putin.

But dont you realize that the U. S. govt has a huge amount of assets on their ledger to pay off the debt.

Let's name a few, from what I have read there is over $100 trillion in oil and gas reserves to be leased. There are trillions in mineral rights. The govt can always put up tolls on interstates to help make money to pay for infrastructure.

At least Biden and the Dems put in that law that corporations have to pay at least 15% tax on earnings (although the big money businesses will try to hide and cheat their away from paying taxes).

Do you agree with this assessment that can be found on the web?

Corporations don't pay taxes.

 

[abby97]

Probably right, but those reserves need to stay in the ground.

Ya, cause God forbid we lower heating/cooling and transportation costs or put more pressure on Putin and OPEC by creating additional supply to a growing demand. And we sure wouldn't want to help pay down the debot because that might help future generations and lower current interest rates. No great idea to "keep it in the ground"🥺

 

[jneffer]

Ya, cause God forbid we lower heating/cooling and transportation costs or put more pressure on Putin and OPEC by creating additional supply to a growing demand. And we sure wouldn't want to help pay down the debot because that might help future generations and lower current interest rates. No great idea to "keep it in the ground"🥺

were pumping and exporting now more than we ever have

when does that mean OUR prices go down?

and its adorable that you think the US taxpayers - and not the oil companies - are going to be the beneficiaries of the US oil reserves

 

[Finance85]

Spend problem bullshit. I love you have finance in your avatar. Conservatives are full of shit with their adequate revenue crap.

Decades of revenue shortages = deficit. Hate to break it to you to financial genius but the tax cut craze did not start with the Orange Turd. We had a balanced budget and Duh!bya gave it away and instigated tax cuts to ensure it would continue.

Republican administrations devastate the economy and Democrats come in to clean up. Don't pretend this isn't true. If we did hadn't had the Republican tax cuts our economy would be in much better shape if not stable. The more money in in the bank, the better off the country would be.

And I don't have finance in my avatar.

Decades of deficit spending is the problem, not revenue. Republicans are just as bad as Dems, they just love spending on different things. Republicans love military spending. Dems love social spending. I've been open about the Trump tax cuts being on the wrong side of the Laffer Curve. If you want to attack, perhaps you should do it based on what my positions actually are rather than what you guess they are.

Yes, I'm a fiscal conservative. I don't believe in a large federal government. Hey, if you want to tax people more, start with folks who pay little or no federal income taxes. Let everyone have a little skin in the game, and we'll see how things work out. If you want more revenue, it's a mathematic fact that increasing GDP increases federal revenue more efficiently than raising tax rates. Libs hate that because it takes away class warfare.

 

[abby97]

were pumping and exporting now more than we ever have

when does that mean OUR prices go down?

and its adorable that you think the US taxpayers - and not the oil companies - are going to be the beneficiaries of the US oil reserves

When is Moscow University's homecoming this year, are you going back?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Ya, cause God forbid we lower heating/cooling and transportation costs or put more pressure on Putin and OPEC by creating additional supply to a growing demand. And we sure wouldn't want to help pay down the debot because that might help future generations and lower current interest rates. No great idea to "keep it in the ground"🥺

Only someone who is willfully oblivious to the facts about climate change could be this far off base.

Sadly there's a whole party and faux-new consortium denying reality.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Corporations don't pay taxes.

Oh brother. Another 3rd grade argument.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

Only someone who is willfully oblivious to the facts about climate change could be this far off base.

Sadly there's a whole party and faux-new consortium denying reality.

What facts are those?

 

[seminole97]

Spend problem bullshit. I love you have finance in your avatar. Conservatives are full of shit with their adequate revenue crap.

Decades of revenue shortages = deficit. Hate to break it to you to financial genius but the tax cut craze did not start with the Orange Turd. We had a balanced budget and Duh!bya gave it away and instigated tax cuts to ensure it would continue.

Federal spending as a percentage of GDP fell to 17.7% in 2000.

Under current tax collections we'd have a surplus with that spending level.

Instead we're spending over 24% of GDP, and have enormous deficits.

Federal spending has only been higher during 1943, 1944, and 1945 when over 10 million men were in the military and we were fighting a two front world war.

We've never collected 24% of GDP in federal taxes. Ever.

Hate to break it you financial genius, but we have a spending problem.

 

[Finance85]

Oh brother. Another 3rd grade argument.

Why don't people understand it?

 

[seminole97]

were pumping and exporting now more than we ever have
when does that mean OUR prices go down?

It just means your prices are lower than they’d otherwise be.

and its adorable that you think the US taxpayers - and not the oil companies - are going to be the beneficiaries of the US oil reserves

The main beneficiaries are going to be the people consuming the oil. They’re the ones getting the most value for it, that’s why they traded the money they valued less.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Why don't people understand it?

They do. They reject the "corporations don't pay taxes" argument for a number of good reasons. Here are 3 of them:

1. Not all corporate taxes are passed along to consumers.
2. Corporations are efficient tax collectors.
3. Corporate taxes facilitate market and social engineering.

Now you can - and probably will - say you don't like those things. Fair enough. But they are real.

 

[jneffer]

It just means your prices are lower than they’d otherwise be.


The main beneficiaries are going to be the people consuming the oil. They’re the ones getting the most value for it, that’s why they traded the money they valued less.

does it?

we're pumping more than ever. we're paying (just about) more than ever. maybe the amount the US pumps and exports has little to no effect on the price at the pump.

there's a literal cartel of oil producing nations that formed and have cut production for the specific goal of keeping prices high. these kinds of things tend to undercut the simple supply and demand equation

 

[seminole97]

does it?

Yes.

we're pumping more than ever. we're paying (just about) more than ever. maybe the amount the US pumps and exports has little to no effect on the price at the pump.

They are not the only factors in price.
The supply of dollars is also a factor.

there's a literal cartel of oil producing nations that formed and have cut production for the specific goal of keeping prices high. these kinds of things tend to undercut the simple supply and demand equation

They’re not ‘undercut[ting] the simple supply and demand equation’, they’re leveraging it.
That you understand their production cuts can increase price is merely the other side of the coin.

 

[ft254]

Federal spending as a percentage of GDP fell to 17.7% in 2000.

Under current tax collections we'd have a surplus with that spending level.

Instead we're spending over 24% of GDP, and have enormous deficits.

Federal spending has only been higher during 1943, 1944, and 1945 when over 10 million men were in the military and we were fighting a two front world war.

We've never collected 24% of GDP in federal taxes. Ever.

Hate to break it you financial genius, but we have a spending problem.

Federal spending as a percentage of GDP fell to 17.7% in 2000.

Under current tax collections we'd have a surplus with that spending level.

Instead we're spending over 24% of GDP, and have enormous deficits.

Federal spending has only been higher during 1943, 1944, and 1945 when over 10 million men were in the military and we were fighting a two front world war.

We've never collected 24% of GDP in federal taxes. Ever.

Hate to break it you financial genius, but we have a spending problem.

The spending and spending levels were didn't appear from the fog. Corporate and tax cuts benefitting the wealthy were imposed with existing and former spending levels.

The spending isn't for nothing for christ's sake. We have health care for most of the population. This doesn't mean anything to the MAGA Mengeles but maybe you'll fall on hard times. Or if you're not a total asshole, maybe you'll find out a family member of yours had been given care.

And like most conservatives, you don't the slightest idea what your tax dollar does for you. You only bitch and whine. Makes me sick I was wasted my career.

 

[ft254]

Yes.



They are not the only factors in price.
The supply of dollars is also a factor.


They’re not ‘undercut[ting] the simple supply and demand equation’, they’re leveraging it.
That you understand their production cuts can increase price is merely the other side of the coin.

So, the U.S. drills and pumps and it may not matter. Manipulative supply and demand, and prices can be set arbitrarily by domestic companies not in the interest of our economy. Sounds evil.

Why pray tell should we bolted to such a dominating energy source and not seek alternatives?

 

[The Tradition]

I didn't read through this whole thread but on NPR this afternoon they said interest payments make up a larger portion of federal expenditures than military spending or Medicaid/Medicare.

That's messed up and someone needs to have the guts to fix it.

 

[seminole97]

The spending and spending levels were didn't appear from the fog.

You're right, they were from deficit reducing measures taken by the Clinton White House and Gingrich Congress to bring spending down from 20.0% in 1995.

Corporate and tax cuts benefitting the wealthy were imposed with existing and former spending levels.

Do you care about tax rates, or tax collections?

1995: federal receipts 17.7% of GDP
2022: federal receipts 19.6% of GDP

You only bitch and whine. Makes me sick I was wasted my career.

I'm asking you the question above, do you want punitive rates, or higher tax collections?

With today's collection and Clinton era spending we'd have genuine surpluses (the ability to buy back debt).

Even under Clinton the debt went up every single year, because the surplus they touted didn't include interest expense on the debt.

 

[seminole97]

So, the U.S. drills and pumps and it may not matter.

I didn't say it didn't matter, I said it does matter, it's just not the only factor.
Producers could double production, public demand could stagnate, but if the government inflates the money supply prices could still rise.

Manipulative supply and demand, and prices can be set arbitrarily by domestic companies not in the interest of our economy. Sounds evil.

It can't be set arbitrarily, because you can't charge people more than it is worth to them, or they won't trade for it.
Right now we get it for way, way less than it is worth to us.

Manipulating demand by printing money is evil, that's why we punish counterfeiters.
It's arbitrary, hidden theft of the productive/saving portion of society's purchasing power.

Why pray tell should we bolted to such a dominating energy source and not seek alternatives?

Is "seek alternatives" code for dump billions in taxpayer subsidies on politically favored companies?
I don't think there should be any of that.
We should get the Pentagon out of the Middle East and see what the market price of oil is.
I'm sure if it is too high for people they'll use alternatives.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

does it?

we're pumping more than ever. we're paying (just about) more than ever. maybe the amount the US pumps and exports has little to no effect on the price at the pump.

there's a literal cartel of oil producing nations that formed and have cut production for the specific goal of keeping prices high. these kinds of things tend to undercut the simple supply and demand equation

Yep. Plus the Ukraine war and the damaged pipelines.

US Big Oil has filled that vacuum. New LNG terminals are being built in Europe, and we're shipping "our" gas to them.

It's tricky. Not only are we paying higher prices while Exxon and others laugh all the way to the bank, but these high prices are also very good for folks like Venezuela and Iran.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

What facts are those?

The science and massive evidence of climate change.

Perhaps you've heard of it?

 

[Tom Paris]

When is Moscow University's homecoming this year, are you going back?

Dude you are the most backwards person on this board.