Since many on here seem to be Facundo fans-Facundo vs. Amine at DCC Invite
- Thread starter MSU158
- Start date
So he lost to another Amine boy?
I saw the tweet he lost but didn't know to who.
Also saw Howard and Plott lost over the weekend as well.
I saw the tweet he lost but didn't know to who.
Also saw Howard and Plott lost over the weekend as well.
Amine is legit, but it was quite controversial and the match went on FOREVER with limited action as both were a bit afraid to fully pull the trigger.
I know the High School rules are different than DI and the ref is actually one of the most respected in Michigan, but there SHOULD have been more stalling called in the UTB's and it seemed to benefit Amine significantly....
I'd take Facundo in a heartbeat ... far more impressive in that match to me. Sometimes you lose those.
Senior vs. Soph and wrestling at home helped Amine as well. Still, Amine is really good and definitely has the pedigree.
Didn’t Facundo beat Amine last year at state? Don’t know if age has anything to do with it. Those were some questionable stalemates that ref was callling at the end tho. Both good wrestlers but I would take AF all day long.
Yes, Facundo beat him in the Finals last year. I believe it was 3-1. However, even Facundo stated age was a small factor with Amine trying to "out physical" him. With 2 years of added maturity Amine loses any bit of an edge in that category. Which I don't think was much to begin with.
Still, the Amines have nearly always been very physical and Senior vs Soph at their level, can't be ignored. That physical gap is a hell of a lot wider in High School than in College.
Yeah, I dont understand why there were so many stalemate calls instead of stall warnings and points.
I though Facundo was looking a little tired in the 3rd and thought that was going to be his downfall but he looked much better in OT.
I though Facundo was looking a little tired in the 3rd and thought that was going to be his downfall but he looked much better in OT.
I have heard from some officials that stalling in the rideout is too be called differently since the object is to actually ride your opponent out, not to turn him or work for the fall. I know officials don't want to interject themselves into the match and some will call stalemates vs. stalling when any other time they would give the guy a stall call.
The first leach on an ankle is a stalemate. The ref called stall both times. The second leach on an ankle is a stall. Ref called stalemate. Amine played the edge most the match with only a couple actual TD attempts; yet, no stall called. Once Amine simple backed off the mat. That is an automatic stall with the new rules this year. Not good officiating, May have been a TD at end of regulation. Video not best angle.
So why did he call stalling the first time each guy dropped to the leg in OT? So the ref allegedly is now telling them "stall away" in OT?
As we all KNOW, most refs have no issue giving that "warning", but giving up the actual point is a different story. The guy is a good, well respected ref and I DO think he would have still called stalling if it was completely egregious and the warnings are supposed to act as a kickstart to wrestlers, especially guys at that caliber that are normally very active to begin with.
Let me be clear, I think he made a mistake on both the takedown being waved off and especially not calling stalling on Amine in the UTB. Once he called it stalling earlier, you can't change it to a stalemate the next time he does the exact same thing. I was simply trying to relay what I was told so we at least get some perspective from the ref's point of view.
This would make him a bad ref. You either abide by the rule book or stop reffing.
Depends on the point of view. No one wants the ref to literally decide the match. I don't believe his intent was to ALLOW stalling. It was to try to make them open up and decide it themselves. Like I said, if there was something egregious, I think he would have called it.
Also, High School UTB is supposed to be called differently for stalling and as such, not calling the stalling at the end does have some merit.
A ref isn’t deciding the match by calling stalling on a stalling wrestler. The wrestlers still decide the match in that scenario.
Only if it is CLEARLY stalling. Stalling is one of, if not the, most subjective and controversial calls in our sport. As a result, many refs don't want to be "that guy". That is why I keep bringing up the word "egregious".
It is sort of like the refs in the NFL allowing some minimal contact instead of calling pass interference every play and you often hear the announcers say they are "letting them play today".
With that said, go back to the beginning and you will see I said I think he did in fact mess up. I just now understand his stance on it and if the wrestlers knew before hand, don't let the match go into OT 1-1 and end up in a situation like that in the first place.
One of the greatest sayings in this sport has always been, "Don't let the referee decide the outcome" or "take the decision out of the ref's hands".
Maybe some of you need to go to more high school matches instead of asking or complaining about the rule differences. It’s not even the same sport, but it should be. It’s just the way it is. Horrible officiating, home cooking and fat guys that can’t get down for backs or pins. It’s sad. The young guys fresh out of college are the best. You have fat cat, power tripping old fat dudes and that needs to end. If you can’t get your big old ass down quickly for backs you should retire. If you have multiple complaints, you should be done. It’s hard to find good refs willing to give their time is the problem.
Hanging onto a lower leg and being dragged around is stalling, period, on every mat in this country. For you to argue against this after wrestling your whole life astounds me. You are part of the problem, not the solution.
You may want to read my response again BEFORE calling me the problem. I gave his reasoning and perspective. I then said, even multiple times in this thread, that I thought he messed up. But, that doesn't mean that I think stalling is a clear cut variable.
Also, I have actually heard quite a few refs say that he called the UTB correctly as the High School rule changes the incentive of the rider to simply hold him down and it supposedly changes the parameters for stalling. Now, I don't agree with that interpretation, but I also never agreed that the guy on bottom that stands up when the rider had a leg in was stalling
I am a HS ref. The first leach on the ankle in TB is stalemate. After that - stalling. That ref screwed up. Backing out of bounds is stalling. That happened one time. New rule - not called.
If this is true that he talked to them prior, he did wrong. If he "didn't want to decide the match on a stall call", he determined he was going to allow them to stall. Only Facundo was taking serious shots. Amine only took one shot the whole match. The ref made the match boring by encouraging stalling.
