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So Israel basically accomplished nothing . . .

torbee

HB King
Gold Member
Other than several thousand revenge killings and inspiring a new generation of terrorists.

Cool, cool.

Wall Street Journal:

Hamas Is Effectively Back in Control in Gaza​

With no alternative following a cease-fire with Israel, the militant group has a moment to assert power​


After Israeli troops stood down when a cease-fire came into effect in the Gaza Strip, Hamas began sending thousands of its forces onto the streets to establish control.

The deployment—envisioned by the agreement that pauses the fighting while the combatants exchange hostages for prisoners—highlights how the U.S.-designated terrorist group remains the dominant power in the territory. Israel hasn’t been able to destroy the group or empower an alternative.

Hamas punctuated its authority Sunday by parading armed and uniformed militants through the streets flashing V-signs to cheering crowds. When Hamas transferred the first Israeli hostages to the Red Cross, Arab mediators said they could see fighters from Hamas’s core Nukhba Force unit clad in full military gear and armed.

The open show of force after months of being pushed underground was a signal that aid groups and governments will need to cooperate with Hamas as reconstruction efforts get under way in the coming weeks—an outcome Israel has hoped to prevent.

“The Hamas presence on the ground armed is a slap in the face to the Israeli government and army,” said Gershon Baskin, a former Israeli hostage negotiator who is now Middle East director for the diplomacy advocacy group International Communities Organization. “It highlights that Israel’s goals for the war were never achievable.”

The fragile truce between Israel and Hamas pauses a war that is among the deadliest in modern Middle Eastern history. The conflict has reduced much of Gaza to rubble and killed around 47,000 people in the enclave following Hamas’s Oct. 7, 2023, attack on Israel, which killed about 1,200 people and left another 250 held hostage.

If it holds, the cease-fire could ease tensions in the region after more than a year of a conflict that drew in the U.S. and Iran and its allied militias across the Middle East. But it also raises substantial questions about how Gaza will be governed after the fighting.

During the 15-month conflict, Israel has battered Hamas in one part of Gaza before moving on to fight in other areas, leaving behind vacuums that have turned lawless as militants tried to reconstitute their forces and criminal gangs battled for control. The lack of order snarled aid deliveries and created new threats for ordinary Palestinians already struggling with the fighting and deprivation.

The U.S. and Israel’s own security establishment pressed Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to come up with a plan for Gaza’s postwar governance, but so far he hasn’t done so. The Palestinian Authority, which oversees much of the occupied West Bank, has said it is ready for the job, but Netanyahu, opposed to a two-state solution, doesn’t want it involved. Hamas has stepped into the breach.

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Israeli Foreign Minister Gideon Sa’ar said Sunday that the current deal is only for a temporary cease-fire and that a permanent end to the war would depend on Hamas abdicating power in later stages of the negotiations. He said Israel has yet to fulfill its war aims of dismantling Hamas’s military and governing capabilities, and indicated it is prepared to re-displace Palestinians if hostilities are renewed.

“There is no future of peace, stability and security for both sides if Hamas stays in power,” Sa’ar said.
 
Just keep hunting down Hamas like they did with Nazi war criminals,.. this isn't rocket science.
I don’t mind the surgical approach to going after Hamas.

I said a year ago and I’ll say again here, I am dubious that beating Hamas via a conventional campaign and wiping them out the way that Bibi wanted can be successful, and frankly, may have ended up hurting Israel long term more than it helped in the short term. It fractured Democrats on Israeli support and I think we saw some warning signs with republicans as well.
 
I don’t mind the surgical approach to going after Hamas.

I said a year ago and I’ll say again here, I am dubious that beating Hamas via a conventional campaign and wiping them out the way that Bibi wanted can be successful, and frankly, may have ended up hurting Israel long term more than it helped in the short term. It fractured Democrats on Israeli support and I think we saw some warning signs with republicans as well.
its the same shit we did in iraq

some people are just actively against learning literally anything from the past
 
What's a good alternative for Isreal to do right now?
Until the leadership there gets serious about a 2-state solution the fighting will never end.

I don’t pretend to know the answer to how to get there in detail, but it’s obvious they need to find some Palestinian partner that isn’t Hamas to work with.
 
No they didn't, they just went underground,.. Hamas will be slowly and systematically crippled.
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Until the leadership there gets serious about a 2-state solution the fighting will never end.

I don’t pretend to know the answer to how to get there in detail, but it’s obvious they need to find some Palestinian partner that isn’t Hamas to work with.
Torbee, stop stealing from my posts from a year ago!

Idk if or when a two state solution will be feasible again, or if some sort of nation where they can peacefully coexist can happen or what, but to do anything, they absolutely HAVE to find Palestinians out there who aren’t pro-Hamas…and the past year made that MUCH harder.
 
someone said the other day that they converted hamas from an organized army into a guerilla group. i suspect that's about right.
 
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Until the leadership there gets serious about a 2-state solution the fighting will never end.

I don’t pretend to know the answer to how to get there in detail, but it’s obvious they need to find some Palestinian partner that isn’t Hamas to work with.
Don’t think it’s possible. The best deal had to be walked away from by Arafat. Because he knew it was signing a death warrant. Arafat was absolutely correct . Zionists murdered his Israeli counterpart Rabin. Extremists on both sides want the other wiped from the planet.
 
They accomplished the goals they set out.
1. Keeping Bibi in power and out of jail.
2. Killing palestinians.
 
Why do liberals insist on siding with misogynistic, intolerant, evil, murdering, anti-LGBTQ, religious bigots? Because they have more melanin than most Jews?

I don’t get it.
 
Why do liberals insist on siding with misogynistic, intolerant, evil, murdering, anti-LGBTQ, religious bigots? Because they have more melanin than most Jews?

I don’t get it.
i'm not really "siding" with anyone

i'm simply recognizing the lesson we learned 20 years ago - that you don't kill your way out of a terrorist/embedded insurgency problem
 
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i'm not really "siding" with anyone

i'm simply recognizing the lesson we learned 20 years ago - that you don't kill your way out of a terrorist/embedded insurgency problem
Perhaps Israel should have dispatched rabbis and social workers to tend to the “insurgency problem”?
 
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Why do liberals insist on siding with misogynistic, intolerant, evil, murdering, anti-LGBTQ, religious bigots? Because they have more melanin than most Jews?

I don’t get it.
Observing what has happened and commenting on it isn't "siding" with anyone.

Do you think either Israel or Hamas/Iran accomplished their strategic goals during the year-plus war?
 
Observing what has happened and commenting on it isn't "siding" with anyone.

Do you think either Israel or Hamas/Iran accomplished their strategic goals during the year-plus war?
Israel’s goal is to exist.

So, yes, I think they accomplished that.
 
Why do liberals insist on siding with misogynistic, intolerant, evil, murdering, anti-LGBTQ, religious bigots? Because they have more melanin than most Jews?

I don’t get it.
Because wrong is wrong. Blowing up and dismembering women and children is wrong regardless of whether or not I agree with their beliefs when they grow up.
 
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Until the leadership there gets serious about a 2-state solution the fighting will never end.

I don’t pretend to know the answer to how to get there in detail, but it’s obvious they need to find some Palestinian partner that isn’t Hamas to work with.
Clinton brokered the dream deal. Palestine was to get almost everything they wanted and a path to eventually get everything else.

Arafat said if he agreed to that deal he would be murdered.

What the leadership of Palestine wants is every Jew dead.

The hold up isn’t Israel.
 
Because wrong is wrong. Blowing up and dismembering women and children is wrong regardless of whether or not I agree with their beliefs when they grow up.
Take that up with the dirtbags who continue to use children as human shields.

My cousin was Delta Force. Trust me. It’s what they’ve always done. They’re cowards.
 
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Take that up with the dirtbags who continue to use children as human shields.

My cousin was Delta Force. Trust me. It’s what they’ve always done. They’re cowards.
What does that have to do with blowing up aid trucks carrying food, and controllinh drones they are shooting little children in the head who are just playing?

I have nothing against Jewish people. But F the current Israeli political leaders. They should all be hung for war crimes.
 
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Take that up with the dirtbags who continue to use children as human shields.

My cousin was Delta Force. Trust me. It’s what they’ve always done. They’re cowards.
Did your cousin shoot thru the kid to kill the fighter? Because that's what Israel is doing. They're killing many more women and children than fighters.
I'm pretty sure our Rules of Engagement frown on that sort of thing.
Because we try to be better.
 
What does that have to do with blowing up aid trucks carrying food, and controllinh drones they are shooting little children in the head who are just playing?

I have nothing against Jewish people. But F the current Israeli political leaders. They should all be hung for war crimes.
Link to Israel purposely shooting little children in the head?
 
Did your cousin shoot thru the kid to kill the fighter?
Of course not.

I don’t like kids getting killed either.

I don’t know what the answer is, but Israel playing nice is not a viable strategy. Now, if it can be proven that kids were intentionally murdered, or killed by some type of depraved indifference, then those responsible should be charged with war crimes.
 
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