Solid State Batteries the "Kiss of Death" for Gas Cars
- Thread starter JRHawk2003
- Start date
Economically, the question will come down to when/if they are available at prices consumers will accept. for now, that advantage still lies with gas-powered cars.
If USA does 100% American built, I'm all in. Until then, tell the chinese to GTFO.
If a small battery car is as cheap as a gas car its a no brainer. You are talking bout savings of thousands a year in gas.
For limited range driving I think that’s definitely true - not so with long range driving…yet.
I love the PHEV I just got. The electric only range is short at 11 miles, but if you live in an urban area that knocks out over 80% of your trips. How close you live to work is a big factor too.
And...
No oil changes
No transmission fluid
No transmission drivetrain to wear out
No fuel/oil filters
Etc. etc. etc.
Aside from "cheaper fuel", you're paying next to nothing on vehicle maintenance.
EVs don't have shocks and struts, brake pads and shoes, tires, etc.?
And electronic components NEVER wear out, right?
Shocks/struts: last much longer than most engine parts
Brake pads: Due to regenerative braking, you will get many times more life out of your brake pads on an EV. Like 100k-200k miles
Why would you bring up "tires"? Those aren't repairs, and they'd be the same on both.
Electronic components have orders of magnitude longer lifespans than mechanical systems.
hawkeyetraveler
HR Heisman
I have almost 70k miles on my model S…at a recent tire change I asked about the brakes - they said they were still in great shape. The regen braking does wonders to extend the life of the brakes.
This is horrible. For Russia, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.
How about the electric motors and mechanical items that make the car “go”? Not saying they aren’t cheaper in electrics I just don’t know how the costs and expected life of those parts compare.
An ev motor has 13 parts. An engine 250 parts under massive stress from extreme heat which then requires a cooling system with radiator and hoses. My Leaf is air cooled.
Gas cars have 800 parts in their transmission. My Leaf is direct drive - no transmission.
How often do you need to get your blender, or box fan serviced? I bought my Leaf in '18 and it just got new tires at 50k miles. It has not been serviced or touched by a mechanic otherwise.
And no catalytic converter to be stolen…
In 50 years of vehicle ownership I’ve never had to replace shocks. Brakes will absolutely last longer in EVs as already explained.
Electronics? My 1978 electromechanical pinball machine is still running fine, as is the alarm clock I bought in 1978.
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The number of moving parts in an ICE vs EV is astronomical. EVs are superior in every way, except one aspect, charging vs filling up. That gap will be closed in short order.
My Jeep can get 20 miles on battery alone. As you said, that covers vast majority of our trips. Fvcker is fun to drive too.
Check out Chevy. They are starting to come out with evs this year that are the same price as their gas equivalents. The '24 Equinox SUV is $30k with 300 mile range, and you can fast-charge 200 miles in 30 minutes if traveling.
GM's CEO has also said that within 5 years, their evs standard range will be 500 miles, and will cost 25% less than a gas equivalent.
I don’t see the charging bs filling as a big deal. An ICE you have to fill ever 300 miles or so regardless. An EV would charge overnight and only require a stop on the road very occasionally.
The one significant drawback is weight, as EVs are very heavy. This poses some safety questions, as well as wear-and-tear on our roads.
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Electric motors have sealed bearings; how long do the "wheels and axles" last on your ICE automobile?
Why is that different here?
The simple fact is that "wire coils" using Lenz's Law for locomotion are FAR more durable than internal combustion engines with hundreds of more moving parts that require tuning, lubrication and will wear down over time.
You can get 500k-1000k miles out of an EV "engine", which is not abnormal. That would be considered an "outlier" for most ICE vehicles, with many/most requiring major engine work after 150k to 300k at the upper end (and getting 300k generally means LOTS of routine oil changes, transmission fluid changes, etc).
I’m still waiting for hydrogen powered cars to be a thing after I watched their CEO praising them and driving one around during a 60 minutes. That was 20 years ago after a search. Not saying EV isn’t the future, or even the now for many. I just am skeptical of the auto world’s promising of mainstream affordable tech.
Careful....I had someone on here trying to "mansplain" to me how EVs also had "transmissions".
Short answer is "No, they do not". There is no need in an EV for matching an engine torque curve.
(They may have "gears", but they do NOT have what is considered a shifting "transmission", which is required for an ICE engine which has a torque curve you have to match with the rotational speed of the engine vs the tires)
You want more juice out of a typical EV, you crank up the current through your electric motors.
Wrangler? If so, I see during your new car conundrum you focused on practicality.
There are already multiple sub-$30k evs available so I don't know what you are talking about being skeptical of "mainstream affordable tech."I’m still waiting for hydrogen powered cars to be a thing after I watched their CEO praising them and driving one around during a 60 minutes. That was 20 years ago after a search. Not saying EV isn’t the future, or even the now for many. I just am skeptical of the auto world’s promising of mainstream affordable tech.
Hydrogen is not going to happen. They've sold 15k vehicles in 2 years at a discount here in California. Needs huge storage tanks that take up space between front seats, trunk, and under rear floor. Fueler often freezes while refueling. And it's still a fossil fuel - it's made from natural gas.
I think you're more likely to see (pricey) non-fossil fuel derived "green" gas for regular gas engines as an alternative. The Germans are putting serious efforts into getting it into production so they can keep make ice Porsches etc.
I meant affordable mainstream tech with an acceptable range, charging time, and performance during the winter in the cold states. And again, I’m not saying many people can’t make it work if they have an ICE in the stable as well, if they only really ever drive in the city short distances, etc. for me it’s like the fear of not having the right tool when you need it. Like right now, as I run off to Home Depot.
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So where is all the material going to come from to build these awesome batteries? Are we going to tear apart the earth with child labor (Congo) and drill in the oceans to satisfy your lust for virtue signaling? EVs are just as "dirty" as gas-powered cars. That's a fact. And let's not mention the safety factor of overheating/fire and disposal of used batteries. How much does it cost to replace a battery pack on an EV, by the way?
I would love an EV but they just don’t work for me now. I have a crossover that is great for what I need - good gas mileage, good size, can take on decent off-road trails, no worries about charging, and the cost was such that I don’t worry about dings or damage.
Maybe some day I’ll find an EV that fits my needs.
Maybe some day I’ll find an EV that fits my needs.
I have read they’re generally not replaced. I think I saw an article about how many Teslas are scrapped after relatively minor accidents because the batteries are damaged and not worth the cost to replace.
I recall reading replacement batteries could be over 20k, but I’m not sure if that is accurate.
Oddly - in stark contrast to oil and fossil fuels - you can recycle/reuse the material from spent batteries to make new batteries!!!!
Why aren't you concerned - at all - about the environmental impacts of fossil fuel extractions, here?
Battery costs have decreased 97% over the last 3 decades
The price of batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades
To transition towards low-carbon energy systems, we need low-cost energy storage. Battery costs have been falling quickly.
ourworldindata.org
If your fossil fuels "commodity" costs decreased that much, we'd be paying $0.02 to $0.03 per gallon of gas these days.... maybe up to $0.10 a gallon.
And they keep going down.
World's largest battery maker announces major breakthrough in energy density
"A new era of universal electrification of sea, land and air transportation." CATL announces new battery that doubles energy intensity.
thedriven.io
This is gonna be a big step forward and will soon be in production.
In one of the most significant battery breakthroughs in recent years, the world’s largest battery manufacturer CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg which it says will go into mass production this year.
“The launch of condensed batteries will usher in an era of universal electrification of sea, land and air transportation, open up more possibilities of the development of the industry, and promote the achieving of the global carbon neutrality goals at an earlier date,” the company said in a presentation at Auto Shanghai on Thursday.
CATL’s new condensed battery will have almost double the energy intensity of Tesla’s 4680 cells, whose rating of 272-296 Wh/kg are considered very high by current standards.
This is from Joe's link. Not sure what they are today though.
- Or take the Tesla Model S 75D which has a 75 kWh battery. In 2018 the battery costs around $13,600; in 1991 it would have been $564,000. More than half a million dollars for a car battery.
World's largest battery maker announces major breakthrough in energy density
"A new era of universal electrification of sea, land and air transportation." CATL announces new battery that doubles energy intensity.
This is gonna be a big step forward and will soon be in production.
In one of the most significant battery breakthroughs in recent years, the world’s largest battery manufacturer CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg which it says will go into mass production this year.
“The launch of condensed batteries will usher in an era of universal electrification of sea, land and air transportation, open up more possibilities of the development of the industry, and promote the achieving of the global carbon neutrality goals at an earlier date,” the company said in a presentation at Auto Shanghai on Thursday.
CATL’s new condensed battery will have almost double the energy intensity of Tesla’s 4680 cells, whose rating of 272-296 Wh/kg are considered very high by current standards.
So.... that's an EV model today -- with no other changes aside from this battery swap-in -- that mean instantly your range goes from 300 miles to 500 miles...
Battery costs are tracking similar to what CPU/computer costs and capabilities have.
Your iWatch, today, at a few hundred bucks, has more computing power than the NASA Apollo spacecraft in the 70s. That's what battery tech will look like, over the coming decades.
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