Solid State Batteries the "Kiss of Death" for Gas Cars

[billanole]

If USA does 100% American built, I'm all in. Until then, tell the chinese to GTFO.

You might like this link. Unfortunately, there is no reference to possible production dates.

Scientists hail new battery with 4 times energy density of lithium-ion

New battery developed by researchers in US could provide "thousand mile" range for EVs and open up new possibilities for long-haul transport and electric planes.

thedriven.io

Scientists and engineers at US-based technology research centre Argonne say they have developed a new battery which they say has four times the energy density of lithium-ion batteries.
The researchers from the Illinois Institute of Technology (IIT) and U.S. Department of Energy’s (DOE) Argonne National Laboratory say that the new battery could power an EV for more than a thousand miles (1600 km) and could also someday be used to power domestic planes and long-haul trucks.

 

[billanole]

This is horrible. For Russia, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.

That’s the spirit!

 

[billanole]

Check out Chevy. They are starting to come out with evs this year that are the same price as their gas equivalents. The '24 Equinox SUV is $30k with 300 mile range, and you can fast-charge 200 miles in 30 minutes if traveling.

GM's CEO has also said that within 5 years, their evs standard range will be 500 miles, and will cost 25% less than a gas equivalent.

Wowzers. This is happening faster and faster. Not surprising.

 

[Joes Place]

Wowzers. This is happening faster and faster. Not surprising.

...which is why the IRA, in pushing for the charging infrastructure around the entire US, is important to start building NOW. Not in "10 more years".


The next major innovation in vehicle charging will be inductive chargers that you "fill your tank" by parking in an inductive charging spot, scanning a QR code with your phone (linked to your account and vehicle) and it'll charge while you're parked. Not much different from your wireless phone-charging cradles.

 

[billanole]

Battery costs have decreased 97% over the last 3 decades

The price of batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades

To transition towards low-carbon energy systems, we need low-cost energy storage. Battery costs have been falling quickly.

ourworldindata.org

If your fossil fuels "commodity" costs decreased that much, we'd be paying $0.02 to $0.03 per gallon of gas these days.... maybe up to $0.10 a gallon.

And they keep going down.

Good link…Thanks. https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline

Let’s put this price decline in perspective:

• The popular Nissan Leaf electric car – which is also one of the most affordable models – has a 40 kWh battery. At our 2018 price, the battery costs around $7,300. Imagine trying to buy the same model in 1991: the battery alone would cost $300,000.
• Or take the Tesla Model S 75D which has a 75 kWh battery. In 2018 the battery costs around $13,600; in 1991 it would have been $564,000. More than half a million dollars for a car battery.

This shows how important these price reductions are for decarbonizing not only our electricity grids but our transport systems too.

 

[Joes Place]

Good link…Thanks. https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline

Let’s put this price decline in perspective:

• The popular Nissan Leaf electric car – which is also one of the most affordable models – has a 40 kWh battery. At our 2018 price, the battery costs around $7,300. Imagine trying to buy the same model in 1991: the battery alone would cost $300,000.
• Or take the Tesla Model S 75D which has a 75 kWh battery. In 2018 the battery costs around $13,600; in 1991 it would have been $564,000. More than half a million dollars for a car battery.

This shows how important these price reductions are for decarbonizing not only our electricity grids but our transport systems too.

YEAHBUT......HOW ARE WE GONNA GENERATE THE ELECTRICITY TO CHARGE ALL THESE SUPER-BATTERIES!!!???


Uh-huh.....Biden's on top of that one, too: NuScale

US approves NuScale SMR (small modular nuclear reactors)

The U.S. nuclear power regulator has certified the design for the NuScale Power Corp's (SMR.N) small modular reactor, the first such approval in the country for the next generation technology. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission's approval, published in the Federal Register late on Thursday...

iowa.forums.rivals.com

 

[Hawk_4shur]

With all of the effort going into EV's I have little doubt that the batteries will soon greatly exceed the range on a gas powered car and the recharging will be easy.

I recently bought a RAV4 (gas) for $40k. I compared it to the Toyota BZ4/X I saw Friday. Similar size and trim - the EV was $51k. I couldn't justify the price difference because we aren't going to be putting many miles on the RAV4.

But a commuter could. If my RAV4 averages 25 mpg at $3.50 a gal, it would only take 20,000 miles a year over 4 years to pay for the $11,000 difference in gas savings.

 

[Funky Bunch]

Yikes, $2300 Labor to replace a battery?

Tesla Model 3 Battery Replacement Cost​

Current Automotive posted the 2020 receipt of one customer’s replacement of a remanufactured 75kWh battery in a Tesla Model 3:

• Battery: $13,500
• Labor $2,299.27
• Total: $15,799.27

Electric Car Battery Replacement Costs

When it comes to electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids, many shoppers wonder how long it will be until they have to replace their battery. Then what will it cost to replace that battery?

www.recurrentauto.com

 

[Slappy Pappy]

Yikes, $2300 Labor to replace a battery?

Tesla Model 3 Battery Replacement Cost​

Current Automotive posted the 2020 receipt of one customer’s replacement of a remanufactured 75kWh battery in a Tesla Model 3:

• Battery: $13,500
• Labor $2,299.27
• Total: $15,799.27

Electric Car Battery Replacement Costs

When it comes to electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids, many shoppers wonder how long it will be until they have to replace their battery. Then what will it cost to replace that battery?

www.recurrentauto.com

Federal law requires companies to fully warranty batteries for 10 yrs/100k miles.

They already have developed batteries with a 20yr, "life of vehicle" lifespan. That will be standard by 2030.

Battery technology is receiving a massive investment in research, and is leaping ahead incredibly fast, but building factories is hard and takes time - at least 4 years - so that's why most of the discoveries you hear about will take awhile to see production.

 

[billanole]

Yikes, $2300 Labor to replace a battery?

Tesla Model 3 Battery Replacement Cost​

Current Automotive posted the 2020 receipt of one customer’s replacement of a remanufactured 75kWh battery in a Tesla Model 3:

• Battery: $13,500
• Labor $2,299.27
• Total: $15,799.27

Electric Car Battery Replacement Costs

When it comes to electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids, many shoppers wonder how long it will be until they have to replace their battery. Then what will it cost to replace that battery?

www.recurrentauto.com

I can’t find the receipt, but all in I changed out a hybrid battery a couple of years(?) back. It cost a bit over $2K, but I got a near $900 core charge rebate.
The batteries are being recycled, just like the old lead car batteries.
The service writer was very surprised that at approx. 200K miles, this was my first replacement. He said that they typically needed replacement by 125K mikes.

 

[Tenacious E]

Federal law requires companies to fully warranty batteries for 10 yrs/100k miles.

They already have developed batteries with a 20yr, "life of vehicle" lifespan. That will be standard by 2030.

Battery technology is receiving a massive investment in research, and is leaping ahead incredibly fast, but building factories is hard and takes time - at least 4 years - so that's why most of the discoveries you hear about will take awhile to see production.

I like everything I’m reading here. We don’t need a car right now. Hopefully won’t for another 5 years. Sounds like by then the tech will be there and I will dive in headfirst.

 

[blhawk]

If USA does 100% American built, I'm all in. Until then, tell the chinese to GTFO.

I cheer on the sentiment here but do you apply that standard to the rest of the consumer products you buy? That would be impossible but kudos if you try

 

[Colonoscopy]

Federal law requires companies to fully warranty batteries for 10 yrs/100k miles.

They already have developed batteries with a 20yr, "life of vehicle" lifespan. That will be standard by 2030.

Battery technology is receiving a massive investment in research, and is leaping ahead incredibly fast, but building factories is hard and takes time - at least 4 years - so that's why most of the discoveries you hear about will take awhile to see production.

I feel like that is one area China really beats us. Infrastructure needed there gets off the ground quick. They're not going to take 4 years to produce a factory. Neither should we.

 

[IMCC965]

Oddly - in stark contrast to oil and fossil fuels - you can recycle/reuse the material from spent batteries to make new batteries!!!!

Why aren't you concerned - at all - about the environmental impacts of fossil fuel extractions, here?

Because it's clean here. Have you ever been in the Middle East and seen the pollution from oil refineries and rigs? It's pretty bad. Here, we don't have that problem.

 

[billanole]

Because it's clean here. Have you ever been in the Middle East and seen the pollution from oil refineries and rigs? It's pretty bad. Here, we don't have that problem.

You don’t live along Cancer Alley in Louisiana, right?

 

[Joes Place]

Because it's clean here.

Sure, Jan. You don't have to live next to the extractions and refineries, do you?

 

[B1GDeal]

To me, the race with China to create better battery tech and EV infrastructure is sorta like the race to the moon with Russia decades ago. It's important that we invest in this and win.

 

[IowaPackFan]

I believe EV’s will get to the point where they are efficient and cost effective enough to overtake gas power, but the big oil and lobbyists will do their damndest to prevent/slow it.
Not to sound too tinfoil hat, but I would be willing to bet big oil has a few items on their shelves they purchased along the way that has prevented/slowed the growth of EV a few decades.

 

[JRHawk2003]

I believe EV’s will get to the point where they are efficient and cost effective enough to overtake gas power, but the big oil and lobbyists will do their damndest to prevent/slow it.
Not to sound too tinfoil hat, but I would be willing to bet big oil has a few items on their shelves they purchased along the way that has prevented/slowed the growth of EV a few decades.

Of course. Its well known they killed the old Interurbans and have worked against mass transit.

Our whole system of urban design is based around the auto and its deeply flawed.

 

[Mister_Man]

• Solid-state batteries, currently only found in small devices like hearing aids, pacemakers, and wearables, provide benefits in both power and safety.
• TDK Corporation in Japan, a component supplier to companies like Apple, says it’s increased its solid-state battery energy output at 1,000 watt-hours per liter, which is 100 times better than its previous battery.
• While this battery breakthrough will first arrive to wearables and other small devices, similar solid-state breakthroughs could also revolutionize electric vehicles, laptops, and smartphones.

But there’s one problem with moving this kind of battery into commercial production. Making these batteries bigger to fit electric vehicles, or even just smartphones, is a pretty big engineering challenge. That’s because ceramic doesn’t exactly size up well, so larger batteries would be considerably more fragile. So while this battery breakthrough could be a big upgrade for small devices, the era of solid-state batteries in smartphones and electric cars is still a ways off.

But it’s a future that’s quickly coming into view.

A Stunning Leap in Engineering Just Made Solid-State Batteries 100x Better

What if your devices could last weeks without recharging?

www.popularmechanics.com

 

[billanole]

I don’t see the charging bs filling as a big deal. An ICE you have to fill ever 300 miles or so regardless. An EV would charge overnight and only require a stop on the road very occasionally.

The one significant drawback is weight, as EVs are very heavy. This poses some safety questions, as well as wear-and-tear on our roads.

Truthfully, a “heavy” EV poses minimal issues per roads. The true damage to our roads are 80 thousand pound semis.
For sure, a heavy EV running across a wet driveway causes more issues than a lightweight sedan, especially if it is a gravel, mud, or sand road.

 

[billanole]

I cheer on the sentiment here but do you apply that standard to the rest of the consumer products you buy? That would be impossible but kudos if you try

Boom.

 

[billanole]

With all of the effort going into EV's I have little doubt that the batteries will soon greatly exceed the range on a gas powered car and the recharging will be easy.

I recently bought a RAV4 (gas) for $40k. I compared it to the Toyota BZ4/X I saw Friday. Similar size and trim - the EV was $51k. I couldn't justify the price difference because we aren't going to be putting many miles on the RAV4.

But a commuter could. If my RAV4 averages 25 mpg at $3.50 a gal, it would only take 20,000 miles a year over 4 years to pay for the $11,000 difference in gas savings.

Why did you not take the leap? Gotta help lesson carbon.k

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Why did you not take the leap? Gotta help lesson carbon.k

I failed to mention .... it's a little smaller.

 

[artradley]

I failed to mention .... it's a little smaller.

That’s what she said.