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OldTownPepe

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Feb 9, 2015
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and has Iowa ranked 17th. I guess I have no problem with that. It's pretty meaningless, anyway. Big Ten Top 25 rankings are:
#4 Ohio State (meh)
#8 Michigan (This I don't get - it must be the lunatic Hairbaugh factor)
#11 Michigan State (see tOSU)
#17 Iowa
Iowa is picked to win the West division again, with Wisconsin second and Nebraska third.
Ohio State is picked to win the East, with Michigan second and Michigan St. third.

Maybe Iowa will play Ohio State in the CCG and it'll actually seem like they play in the same conference instead of the once-every-six years meeting the B1G has scheduled.
 
Michigan and OSU keep bringing in great talent, and Harbaugh and Urban have a long track record of outperforming pundits. Bet against them at your own risk.
 
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Early Golden Nugget over/unders have OSU at 8.5, Michigan at 9.5, MSU at 8.

Whoever put OSU at #4 should bet the over on 8.5.
 
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Michigan and OSU keep bringing in great talent, and Harbaugh and Urban have a long track record of outperforming pundits. Bet against them at your own risk.

I agree with this... just add two things:

Urban Meyer has certainly proven that he can "re-load" and be just as good.

As for Michigan, I think it is their defense that is getting the attention so far. But yeah, Harbaugh is a great coach and recruiter too.
 
I don't have a problem with OSU at 4. They have a great QB and he will be starting from the 1st game this year and their recruiting is on another level so they may be lacking on experience but not talent.
 
and has Iowa ranked 17th. I guess I have no problem with that. It's pretty meaningless, anyway. Big Ten Top 25 rankings are:
#4 Ohio State (meh)
#8 Michigan (This I don't get - it must be the lunatic Hairbaugh factor)
#11 Michigan State (see tOSU)
#17 Iowa
Iowa is picked to win the West division again, with Wisconsin second and Nebraska third.
Ohio State is picked to win the East, with Michigan second and Michigan St. third.

Maybe Iowa will play Ohio State in the CCG and it'll actually seem like they play in the same conference instead of the once-every-six years meeting the B1G has scheduled.

OSU even though they lost a ton Meyer is the only guy besides Saban that just reloads with all conference talent when he losses all sorts of players to the draft. Michigan I agree the Harbaugh factor moves you in top 10 no matter what, like it or not. I'm very curious to see who Michigan's QB is next year and how effective he will be. Plus Michigan has road games at MSU, OSU and Iowa. Sparty very curious to see how well their offense is. Sounds like defense will be tough like most years.

For the West I think Wisconsin based on talent maybe one of the 2 best teams but with their brutal schedule I don't think they'll finish in top 2. Hate to say it think Nebraska maybe Iowa's main competitor for west division but they have a tough slate of road games at N'western, Wisc, OSU and Iowa. N'western is the wild card to me. Amazing how many close games they won be interesting to see how much improved QB Thorson is next year. Because they really relied on their D to win them some games.
 
I get the Michigan hype. Their DLine is one of the best in the the nation (top 5 good). Their D should be really good this year overall. Peppers is a freak athlete. On O their running game looks very improved and could be a top unit in the B1G this year. They're breaking in a new QB but Darboh, Chesson and Butt could be the B1Gs best receiving unit this year. Darboh is the best in the country at turning a 3 yard pass into a 10 yard gain. Chesson is one of the better deep threats in the country and Butt is likely a 1st RD Draft pick next year.
 
Ohio state lost an awful lot of talent to the nfl to warrant such a high ranking.

Unless you actually know recent college football history. In 2014 they started a combined 15 freshman and sophomores and won the national title, their roster has only become more talented since then now that it consists of 100% Urban Meyer recruits who have spent the last two years going against all those NFL players in practice. Combine that with the fact they return a QB who produced a B1G record 45 TD's in his first season of play, and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to understand the ranking.

The real head scratcher is why rankings like ESPN's are placing Michigan higher than tOSU, when they have to replace their QB, all four starting LB's, and their best DLineman from a defense that the Buckeyes absolutely destroyed last year (apparently endless hype regarding your coach improves play on the field, who knew?).

The Buckeye's schedule is absolutely brutal though and will leave them little margin for error, which partly explains the Nuggets O/U:
@ Oklahoma, @ Michigan State, @ Wisconsin, @ Penn State, Vs Michigan, Vs Nebraska, & Vs Northwestern, there's a good chance it's the toughest in the entire country when it's all said and done.

That didn't stop the Las Vegas superbook from making them one of the favorites to win it all when they released their lines yesterday, so the Nugget seems to be the outlier at this point:

SCHOOL ODDS
ALABAMA 6:1
MICHIGAN 7:1
OHIO STATE 8:1
CLEMSON 8:1
OKLAHOMA 8:1
FLORIDA STATE 12:1
BAYLOR 15:1
LOUISIANA STATE 15:1
NOTRE DAME 15:1
AUBURN 30:1
GEORGIA 30:1
MISSISSIPPI STATE 30:1
STANFORD 30:1
UCLA 30:1
 
Unless you actually know recent college football history. In 2014 they started a combined 15 freshman and sophomores and won the national title, their roster has only become more talented since then now that it consists of 100% Urban Meyer recruits who have spent the last two years going against all those NFL players in practice. Combine that with the fact they return a QB who produced a B1G record 45 TD's in his first season of play, and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to understand the ranking.

The real head scratcher is why rankings like ESPN's are placing Michigan higher than tOSU, when they have to replace their QB, all four starting LB's, and their best DLineman from a defense that the Buckeyes absolutely destroyed last year (apparently endless hype regarding your coach improves play on the field, who knew?).

The Buckeye's schedule is absolutely brutal though and will leave them little margin for error, which partly explains the Nuggets O/U:
@ Oklahoma, @ Michigan State, @ Wisconsin, @ Penn State, Vs Michigan, Vs Nebraska, & Vs Northwestern, there's a good chance it's the toughest in the entire country when it's all said and done.

That didn't stop the Las Vegas superbook from making them one of the favorites to win it all when they released their lines yesterday, so the Nugget seems to be the outlier at this point:

SCHOOL ODDS
ALABAMA 6:1
MICHIGAN 7:1
OHIO STATE 8:1
CLEMSON 8:1
OKLAHOMA 8:1
FLORIDA STATE 12:1
BAYLOR 15:1
LOUISIANA STATE 15:1
NOTRE DAME 15:1
AUBURN 30:1
GEORGIA 30:1
MISSISSIPPI STATE 30:1
STANFORD 30:1
UCLA 30:1
Excellent post!
 
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That didn't stop the Las Vegas superbook from making them one of the favorites to win it all when they released their lines yesterday, so the Nugget seems to be the outlier at this point:

Nice post.

There is a difference between O/U and national title odds. The books have to cover both sides of O/U, so there is more incentive to be "correct".

They only have to pay the winning side of national title odds. So they are able to inflate the OSU odds so that their risk is lower, and counting on OSU fans willing to pay for inflated odds.
 
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Nice post.

There is a difference between O/U and national title odds. The books have to cover both sides of O/U, so there is more incentive to be "correct".

They only have to pay the winning side of national title odds. So they are able to inflate the OSU odds so that their risk is lower, and counting on OSU fans willing to pay for inflated odds.

That's definitely all very true, but at the same time, as i'm sure you know, a teams expected number of wins and the probability they win the national title are also not independent of each other either, that's more what I was getting at. I understand and agree with why the Buckeyes would have a lower expected value for their number of wins compared to other teams with similar odds of winning the natty, their tough schedule clearly gives them a higher standard deviation, I just think the Nugget's model might be overemphasizing this a little bit, especially considering the over was only a shocking -115 !!!! They have only lost four games in four years after all, so I think an 8.5-3.5 W/L projection for this year might be overemphasizing that schedule & higher SD just a bit, and personally think a 9 O/U and would have been more on target.

Here's the Nuggets other O/U, and the Vegas Superbooks title odds again for comparison:

TENNESSEE 10 Appalachian State, Virginia Tech, Ohio, Florida, at Georgia, at Texas A&M, Alabama, at South Carolina, Tennessee Tech, Kentucky, Missouri, at Vanderbilt
CLEMSON 10 at Auburn, Troy, South Carolina State, at Georgia Tech, Louisville, at Boston College, N.C. State, at Florida State, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, at Wake Forest, South Carolina
FLORIDA STATE 10 Mississippi*, Charleston Southern, at Louisvilla, South Florida, North Carolina, at Miami (FL), Wake Forest, Clemson, at N.C. State, Boston College, at Syracuse, Florida
OKLAHOMA 10 Houston*, Louisiana–Monroe, Ohio State, at Texas Christian, Texas, Kansas State, at Texas Tech, Kansas, at Iowa State, Baylor, at West Virginia, Oklahoma State
ALABAMA 9.5 Southern California*, Western Kentucky, at Missisippi, Kent State, Kentucky, at Arkansas, at Tennessee, Texas A&M, at Louisiana State, Mississippi State, Chattanooga, Auburn
LOUISIANA STATE 9.5 Wisconsin*, Jacksonville State, Mississippi State, at Auburn, Missouri, at Florida, Southern Mississippi, Misssippi, Alabama, at Arkansas, South Alabama, at Texas A&M
MICHIGAN 9.5 Hawaii, Central Florida, Colorado, Penn State, Wisconsin, at Rutgers, Illinois, at Michigan State, Maryland, at Iowa, Indiana, at Ohio State
NOTRE DAME 9 at Texas, Nevada, Michigan State, Duke, at Syracuse, at N.C. State, Stanford, Miami (FL), Navy, Army, Virginia Tech, at Southern California
BAYLOR 9 Northwestern, Southern Methodist, at Rice, Oklahoma State, at Iowa State, Kansas, at Texas, Texas Christian, at Oklahoma, Kansas State, at Texas Tech, at West Virginia
HOUSTON 9 Oklahoma*, Lamar, at Cincinnati, at Texas State, Connecticut, at Navy, Tulsa, Southern Methodist, Central Florida, Tulane, Louisville, at Memphis
LOUISVILLE 9 Charlotte, at Syracuse, Florida State, at Marshall, at Clemson, Duke, N.C. State, at Virginia, at Boston College, Wake Forest, at Houston, Kentucky
UCLA 9 at Texas A&M, UNLV, Brigham Young, Stanford, Arizona, at Arizona State, at Washington State, Utah, at Colorado, Oregon State, Southern California, at California
GEORGIA 8.5 North Carolina, Nicholls State, at Missouri, at Mississippi, Tennessee, at South Carolina, Vanderbilt, Florida, at Kentucky, Auburn, Louisiana–Monroe, Georgia Tech
OKLAHOMA STATE 8.5 Southeastern Louisiana, Central Michigan, Pittsburgh, at Baylor, Texas, Iowa State, at Kanasas, West Virginia, at Kansas State, Texas Tech, at Texas Christian, at Oklahoma
OREGON 8.5 California–Davis, Virginia, at Nebraska, Colorado, at Washington State, Washington, at California, Arizona, Southern California, Stanford, at Utah, at Oregon State
TEXAS CHRISTIAN 8.5 South Dakota State, Arkansas, Iowa State, at Southern Methodist, Oklahoma, at Kansas, Texas Tech, at Baylor, Oklahoma State, at Texas, Kansas State
OHIO STATE 8.5

SCHOOL ODDS
  • Alabama, 6-1
  • Michigan, 7-1
  • Clemson, 8-1
  • Oklahoma, 8-1
  • Ohio State, 8-1
  • Florida State, 12-1
  • Baylor, 15-1
  • LSU, 15-1
  • Notre Dame, 15-1
  • Tennessee, 15-1
  • Auburn, 30-1
  • Georgia, 30-1
  • Michigan State, 30-1
  • Ole Miss, 30-1
  • UCLA, 30-1
  • Stanford, 30-1
 
Unless you actually know recent college football history. In 2014 they started a combined 15 freshman and sophomores and won the national title, their roster has only become more talented since then now that it consists of 100% Urban Meyer recruits who have spent the last two years going against all those NFL players in practice. Combine that with the fact they return a QB who produced a B1G record 45 TD's in his first season of play, and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to understand the ranking.

The real head scratcher is why rankings like ESPN's are placing Michigan higher than tOSU, when they have to replace their QB, all four starting LB's, and their best DLineman from a defense that the Buckeyes absolutely destroyed last year (apparently endless hype regarding your coach improves play on the field, who knew?).

The Buckeye's schedule is absolutely brutal though and will leave them little margin for error, which partly explains the Nuggets O/U:
@ Oklahoma, @ Michigan State, @ Wisconsin, @ Penn State, Vs Michigan, Vs Nebraska, & Vs Northwestern, there's a good chance it's the toughest in the entire country when it's all said and done.

That didn't stop the Las Vegas superbook from making them one of the favorites to win it all when they released their lines yesterday, so the Nugget seems to be the outlier at this point:

SCHOOL ODDS
ALABAMA 6:1
MICHIGAN 7:1
OHIO STATE 8:1
CLEMSON 8:1
OKLAHOMA 8:1
FLORIDA STATE 12:1
BAYLOR 15:1
LOUISIANA STATE 15:1
NOTRE DAME 15:1
AUBURN 30:1
GEORGIA 30:1
MISSISSIPPI STATE 30:1
STANFORD 30:1
UCLA 30:1

And this is a great example of why I will always prefer Michigan fans to Ohio State fans. I root for Michigan over OSU every time.

Regardless, give credit where credit is due. Look at Urban's overall record in the B1G. Until proven otherwise, OSU's high ranking is more than reasonable.
 
All the new ultra talented players need to mesh, which is something they could not do last year at tosu. Florida had Urban recruits during the Tim Tebow days and they were impressive, and they still had his recruits after Tebow left and they were less than impressive. So either the talent level dropped off or trying to get Elite athletes to mesh together doesn't always work. Combination of both in my opinion. Maybe getting 22 four and five star egos to play together isn't the easiest thing.
 
All the new ultra talented players need to mesh, which is something they could not do last year at tosu. Florida had Urban recruits during the Tim Tebow days and they were impressive, and they still had his recruits after Tebow left and they were less than impressive. So either the talent level dropped off or trying to get Elite athletes to mesh together doesn't always work. Combination of both in my opinion. Maybe getting 22 four and five star egos to play together isn't the easiest thing.
I think the main problem for them last year was simply Urban Meyer was so obsessed with getting a quarterback drafted that he made a disastrous decision and it cost him the national title in my opinion
 
I think the main problem for them last year was simply Urban Meyer was so obsessed with getting a quarterback drafted that he made a disastrous decision and it cost him the national title in my opinion
I think they 'struggled' last year because they lost their OC Herman.
 
That's definitely all very true, but at the same time, as i'm sure you know, a teams expected number of wins and the probability they win the national title are also not independent of each other either, that's more what I was getting at. I understand and agree with why the Buckeyes would have a lower expected value for their number of wins compared to other teams with similar odds of winning the natty, their tough schedule clearly gives them a higher standard deviation, I just think the Nugget's model might be overemphasizing this a little bit, especially considering the over was only a shocking -115 !!!! They have only lost four games in four years after all, so I think an 8.5-3.5 W/L projection for this year might be overemphasizing that schedule & higher SD just a bit, and personally think a 9 O/U and would have been more on target.

Here's the Nuggets other O/U, and the Vegas Superbooks title odds again for comparison:

TENNESSEE 10 Appalachian State, Virginia Tech, Ohio, Florida, at Georgia, at Texas A&M, Alabama, at South Carolina, Tennessee Tech, Kentucky, Missouri, at Vanderbilt
CLEMSON 10 at Auburn, Troy, South Carolina State, at Georgia Tech, Louisville, at Boston College, N.C. State, at Florida State, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, at Wake Forest, South Carolina
FLORIDA STATE 10 Mississippi*, Charleston Southern, at Louisvilla, South Florida, North Carolina, at Miami (FL), Wake Forest, Clemson, at N.C. State, Boston College, at Syracuse, Florida
OKLAHOMA 10 Houston*, Louisiana–Monroe, Ohio State, at Texas Christian, Texas, Kansas State, at Texas Tech, Kansas, at Iowa State, Baylor, at West Virginia, Oklahoma State
ALABAMA 9.5 Southern California*, Western Kentucky, at Missisippi, Kent State, Kentucky, at Arkansas, at Tennessee, Texas A&M, at Louisiana State, Mississippi State, Chattanooga, Auburn
LOUISIANA STATE 9.5 Wisconsin*, Jacksonville State, Mississippi State, at Auburn, Missouri, at Florida, Southern Mississippi, Misssippi, Alabama, at Arkansas, South Alabama, at Texas A&M
MICHIGAN 9.5 Hawaii, Central Florida, Colorado, Penn State, Wisconsin, at Rutgers, Illinois, at Michigan State, Maryland, at Iowa, Indiana, at Ohio State
NOTRE DAME 9 at Texas, Nevada, Michigan State, Duke, at Syracuse, at N.C. State, Stanford, Miami (FL), Navy, Army, Virginia Tech, at Southern California
BAYLOR 9 Northwestern, Southern Methodist, at Rice, Oklahoma State, at Iowa State, Kansas, at Texas, Texas Christian, at Oklahoma, Kansas State, at Texas Tech, at West Virginia
HOUSTON 9 Oklahoma*, Lamar, at Cincinnati, at Texas State, Connecticut, at Navy, Tulsa, Southern Methodist, Central Florida, Tulane, Louisville, at Memphis
LOUISVILLE 9 Charlotte, at Syracuse, Florida State, at Marshall, at Clemson, Duke, N.C. State, at Virginia, at Boston College, Wake Forest, at Houston, Kentucky
UCLA 9 at Texas A&M, UNLV, Brigham Young, Stanford, Arizona, at Arizona State, at Washington State, Utah, at Colorado, Oregon State, Southern California, at California
GEORGIA 8.5 North Carolina, Nicholls State, at Missouri, at Mississippi, Tennessee, at South Carolina, Vanderbilt, Florida, at Kentucky, Auburn, Louisiana–Monroe, Georgia Tech
OKLAHOMA STATE 8.5 Southeastern Louisiana, Central Michigan, Pittsburgh, at Baylor, Texas, Iowa State, at Kanasas, West Virginia, at Kansas State, Texas Tech, at Texas Christian, at Oklahoma
OREGON 8.5 California–Davis, Virginia, at Nebraska, Colorado, at Washington State, Washington, at California, Arizona, Southern California, Stanford, at Utah, at Oregon State
TEXAS CHRISTIAN 8.5 South Dakota State, Arkansas, Iowa State, at Southern Methodist, Oklahoma, at Kansas, Texas Tech, at Baylor, Oklahoma State, at Texas, Kansas State
OHIO STATE 8.5

SCHOOL ODDS
  • Alabama, 6-1
  • Michigan, 7-1
  • Clemson, 8-1
  • Oklahoma, 8-1
  • Ohio State, 8-1
  • Florida State, 12-1
  • Baylor, 15-1
  • LSU, 15-1
  • Notre Dame, 15-1
  • Tennessee, 15-1
  • Auburn, 30-1
  • Georgia, 30-1
  • Michigan State, 30-1
  • Ole Miss, 30-1
  • UCLA, 30-1
  • Stanford, 30-1
I'll be in Vegas soon and will confidently lay a 100 each on Michigan not to cover (at MSU, at Iowa, at OSU...enough said) and a 100 on Baylor not to cover (NW, at Texas, at OK, at WVU).
 
I'll be in Vegas soon and will confidently lay a 100 each on Michigan not to cover (at MSU, at Iowa, at OSU...enough said) and a 100 on Baylor not to cover (NW, at Texas, at OK, at WVU).

I agree with you on your bets against UM @ Iowa & @ tOSU, not so sure about that MSU game, they are losing an awful lot and after the Spartan miracle last year UM will be on a mission for revenge. As for Baylor, seems like maybe a bad time to bet against them considering the market has surely never been lower for them (the public has to be hammering the other side which should drive the lines seriously in the wrong direction for you) so you'd essentially be buying "high" which is of course undesirable.

Personally I would probably lay some serious money on Clemson, both their O/U and Natty odds. They have the best player in the country coming back in Deshaun Watson IMO, no D in the country can stop that guy, plus a roster loaded with talent thanks to Swinney's recent elite recruiting level, including a 5 star incoming stud DT Dexter Lawrence who enrolled in December which will probably make him the top impact recruit in the country. He was unblockable at the top camps and could make a huge immediate defensive impact. I would also guess they have been on a mission all off season after coming so close to the ultimate goal. Other than a game @ FSU their schedule is extremely favorable too.

Also I highly recommend going to O'Sheas, they have War tables, great fun and easy to play for a very long time due to it being much better odds than almost all other games. The dealer deals you a card and themselves a card every time, if you're higher you win and lower you lose with 1:1 odds, if it's a tie you then go to war (where the house has better odds due to the player having to either double their bet for the opporuntity to win back only their original wager, or surrender 1/2 the original bet immediately and move on to the next hand). Still one of the best games statistically for players and a lot of fun for all. It's in the back bar area where they also have beer pong tables set up all around it. Also if you like ethnic food at all I highly recommend a trip to Lotus of Siam, probably the best Thai restaurant in the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casino_War
http://wizardofodds.com/games/casino-war/

http://www.yelp.com/biz/lotus-of-siam-las-vegas
https://www.zagat.com/l/top-food-in-las-vegas
 
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The real head scratcher is why rankings like ESPN's are placing Michigan higher than tOSU, when they have to replace their QB, all four starting LB's, and their best DLineman from a defense that the Buckeyes absolutely destroyed last year (apparently endless hype regarding your coach improves play on the field, who knew?).

How does a team lose "all four starting LBs" when they only started 2 LBs in their base 4-2-5 defense?

And who is their best DL they have to replace? Because Ryan Glasgow was their best DL last year and he missed the final 2 games with injury but he is back and will be 100% next season. They also had their starting NT miss the entire season (Brian Mone) with a fall practice injury but he will be back as well. Oh and Chris Wormley was their next best DL and he's back. Maurice Hurst probably next best and he's back. Taco Charlton was really good and he's back. So are several others from the 2 deep. And #1 overall recruit Rashan Gary gets added in. Pretty sure the DL is as loaded as it gets anywhere in the country.

LB is a question, but the DBs are also loaded featuring Jourdan Lewis who is as good as it gets nationally (no offense to Des King) along with several other extremely talented guys.

Michigan has an obvious question at QB, but there are several potential options that are all pretty good. Add in a ton of returning talent on both sides of the ball to a team that thoroughly destroyed Florida in their bowl game plus some potential major impact freshmen and it's hard to argue they shouldn't be top 10 preseason.
 
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The problem for the Buckeyes last year wasn't that they were unable to mesh, it was a combination of they were able to sleepwalk through the first half of the season- and when you do that it sometimes difficult to turn the switch back on, some brought on by the QB uncertainty, some growing pains due to the switch in offensive coordinators, and one bad game. OSU went 11-1, lost a game on a final second field goal, won the Fiesta Bowl, led the conference in scoring, and was top three nationally in scoring defense. Sometimes things just happen.

The QB decision wasn't based on Meyer trying to get a QB drafted.

As far as this upcoming season, the odds or over and under on wins don't mean anything unless you're putting down money. Win the conference and you are probably in the playoffs.
 
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