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St Paul Pioneer Press article. Decision to review AND ENFORCE Invalid Fair Catch Signal NOT made by O’Dey, but came from the booth at Kinnick Stadium

Franisdaman

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I always find interesting the other team's media coverage.

As you will read:

* Big Ten coordinator of football officials Bill Carollo said an invalid fair catch signal is a reviewable play and once you go to replay, they have a chance to look at all aspects of the play.

* The call to review the play was not made by Referee Tim O’Dey, but came from the booth at Kinnick Stadium.

* Replay in the booth at Kinnick is making the final decision.

* The intent of the invalid fair catch signal is explained. Also, if you give an invalid signal, you lose protection (you can get hit) AND you forfeit your right to return the ball.


The Full Story:

Big Ten, NCAA stand behind call at end of Gophers’ win over Hawkeyes

The conference’s coordinator of football officials confirmed it was an invalid fair catch signal.

A football player reaches out for his opponent who is carrying the ball.

Cooper DeJean (3) of the Iowa Hawkeyes breaks a tackle by Gophers long snapper Brady Weeks (37) during a punt return that went for a touchdown before it was called back during the second half at Kinnick Stadium on October 21, 2023 in Iowa City, Iowa. (Photo by Matthew Holst/Getty Images)


By ANDY GREDER | agreder@pioneerpress.com
St Paul Pioneer Press
PUBLISHED: October 23, 2023 at 12:22 p.m. | UPDATED: October 23, 2023 at 6:03 p.m.


One official each with the Big Ten Conference and NCAA backed up the review decision to overturn Iowa punt returner Cooper DeJean’s 54-yard touchdown at the end of the Gophers’ 12-10 win over Iowa on Saturday.

Big Ten coordinator of football officials Bill Carollo and NCAA rules editor Steve Shaw addressed the call of an invalid fair catch signal with the Pioneer Press and Des Moines Register for roughly 25 minutes on Monday morning.

“In this situation, we allowed (DeJean’s) right hand to point to the ball, but if the other hand, if there’s any waving signal, it constitutes an invalid signal,” Carollo said in the video interview.

Carollo did acknowledge one caveat to how the call was administered in Iowa City. “In retrospect, we would have preferred if they were confident that signal was an invalid signal, we should have killed the play” before a return was made, Carollo said.

That would have defused a lot of the negative reaction from the Hawkeyes and their fans because the play continued, and DeJean appeared to give Iowa a 16-10 lead with 90 seconds left.

Shaw said replay review “came in and properly overturned the call” and put the ball at the spot where DeJean possessed it, Iowa’ 46-yard line, wiping away a go-ahead touchdown.

DeJean and Hawkeyes coach Kirk Ferentz thought otherwise on DeJean’s arm movements.

Ferentz also took issue with, in his mind, the review going from whether DeJean stepped out of bounds to a decision on the invalid fair catch signal.

“They didn’t deem it, they didn’t see it, they didn’t rule on it during the actual play, but it is a reviewable play,” Carollo clarified. “Once you go to replay, you have a chance to look at all aspects of the play.”

Hawkeyes fans were disgruntled by the fact that Big Ten official Tim O’Dey, who was the referee on Saturday, was the line judge for Floyd of Rosedale game in Minnesota in 2022, when Hawkeyes linebacker Jack Campbell had an interception return called back for stepping out of bounds late in Iowa’s 13-10 win.

Carollo said the call to review the play on Saturday was not made by O’Dey, but came from the booth at Kinnick Stadium.

“We all make mistakes, different position, different game,” Carollo said. “I usually don’t comment on past games. But I did acknowledge at the time we made a mistake, you know, made a mistake that we should have killed the play. But Tim O’Dey is 60 yards away from this play. He has nothing to do with it except for listens. He does watch, but replay is making the final decision at the booth in Iowa.”

Carollo said there was “no consideration” to not put O’Dey’s crew on this year’s Floyd of Rosedale game.

Gophers coach P.J. Fleck said: “There is nothing controversial about it. Offsides is offside. A false start is a false start. A hold is a hold. An invalid fair catch signal is an invalid fair catch signal.”

DeJean appears to be signaling for his teammates to get away from the bouncing punt, which can be known as a “Peter” or a “fire” call. The Hawkeyes’ gunner on that side of the field flees the scene of the return as if that’s the directive.

Shaw said the intent of the invalid fair catch signal rule is “we don’t want people covering the kick to have to go through a whole thing of is that a valid signal or is it invalid? Do I tackle this guy or do I not? The rule was put in to protect the receiver. Give a valid signal and then you have protection. If you give an invalid signal, you lose protection, but you still forfeit your right to return it.”

Fleck pointed out Gophers punt returner Quentin Redding gave a signal and tried to return a punt against Eastern Michigan on Sept. 9, but the play was whistled dead after the catch. “We got called for that weeks ago, if you remember,” Fleck said Monday. “We shooed people away from the ball, caught it, wanted to return it. And it was blown dead.”

Fleck sent out a reminder, too. While DeJean’s return was called back, Iowa still had the ball at their own 46-yard line with 92 seconds remaining. A few first downs and a game-winning field goal was still available.

“Still had to go play football,” Fleck said. “Next play, our players respond, we have a sack and (two plays after that) we have an interception. … We still had to make plays.”

That bottom line didn’t stop Ferentz from revisiting the play Monday; Carollo said he and the Hawkeyes’ coach were set to have a meeting Monday afternoon.

 
But if they are reviewing if he stepped out of bounds and then noticed the invalid fair catch then that opens it up to reviewing all touchdowns and look for holding or any other infraction.

From the article: The ON FIELD officials did not see him step out of bounds. And regarding the invalid fair catch issue, the ON FIELD officials didn’t deem it a violation (they didn’t see it & they didn’t rule on it during the actual play). The review came from the booth.

I don't know the full list of reviewable plays but Carollo said the invalid fair catch signal is one of them. I am guessing stepping out of bounds is as well (which he obviously didn't).
 
FWIW O'Day was the official that called Campbell out last year on the fumble return...

And I thought I read where the call was made in Pittsburgh.

The replay official at the stadium can contact the B1G replay officials in Pittsburgh to discuss but the replay official at the stadium has the final say.

From the Gazette:

Replay center

The Big Ten’s replay center was not immune from Ferentz’s extensive postgame critique of the officiating.

“I’m still not sure who makes the final decision,” Ferentz said after the 12-10 loss. “I know we go to Pittsburgh for analysis. And my theory there is the more people get involved, probably the more screwed up things are.”

The Big Ten started operating the replay center this season. (Other major conferences already had replay centers in place.) The temporary location is in Pittsburgh until the permanent replay center in Chicago is ready.

The way the Big Ten uses its replay center in Pittsburgh is “very similar to the NFL model,” Carollo said in the summer.

“And I’ve hired some people from the NFL to run this for me,” Carollo said, “and some people that have college experience that know the rules and know replay.”

The replay center is “in addition to,” not in lieu of, the replay official in the press box. The “replay person at the stadium” is the one with the final say.

“They’re in a listen mode,” Carollo said. “If they’re going down the wrong path, and they’re going to make a mistake, they will call and say check the high end zone shot, do this. Or if they’re going to snap it right away, they’ll say, ‘stop the game.’”



Director of Officiating for the Big Ten Bill Carollo speaks during an NCAA college football news conference at the Big Ten Conference media days at Lucas Oil Stadium, Thursday, July 27, 2023, in Indianapolis. (AP Photo/Darron Cummings)

Comments: john.steppe@thegazette.com

.....................................

 
FWIW O'Day was the official that called Campbell out last year on the fumble return...

And I thought I read where the call was made in Pittsburgh.
And O'Day screwed up the Okie State vs. Central Mich game back in 2016 IIRC, they gave CMU an untimed down after an Okie State 4th down intentional grounding. Wrong call and we all know how that turned out...CMU threw a hook and ladder and won on next play!

Btw: why isn't a 'spike' or 'clocking of the football' intentional grounding? QB is in pocket, at LOS, no receiver, etc, maybe it's a special exception? Edit: it's because he isn't under pressure most likely as I think about it...
 
From the article: The ON FIELD officials did not see him step out of bounds. And regarding the invalid fair catch issue, the ON FIELD officials didn’t deem it a violation (they didn’t see it & they didn’t rule on it during the actual play). The review came from the booth.

I don't know the full list of reviewable plays but Carollo said the invalid fair catch signal is one of them. I am guessing stepping out of bounds is as well (which he obviously didn't).
Which is where he becomes a liar. Invalid catch is not listed as something that can be reviewed at all. He claims that it is and even calls out that it isn't explicitly stated. If it isn't explicitly stated it isn't a rule.

Thay jackass is so damned smug and arrogant he actually thinks by him stating it is a rule that it becomes a rule even when it isn't explicitly stated.

What a clown. If this guy is in charge no wonder big ten officiating is such a damned dumpster fire
 
Winning this disguting dispaly of football by both teams ... only enables KF and fat head kid.
Move on from that correct call (nice try Coop, smart play) and hopefully you will move on from this disgusting coaching staff, that cannot beat anyone that is remotely good (see PennSt etc etc etc).
 
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Which is where he becomes a liar. Invalid catch is not listed as something that can be reviewed at all. He claims that it is and even calls out that it isn't explicitly stated. If it isn't explicitly stated it isn't a rule.

Thay jackass is so damned smug and arrogant he actually thinks by him stating it is a rule that it becomes a rule even when it isn't explicitly stated.

What a clown. If this guy is in charge no wonder big ten officiating is such a damned dumpster fire

Note that there was an NCAA rules official on the call as well. As you saw in the article, they say it's reviewable.

So, I have no idea what's what anymore. LOL

3 days later and this still stinks.
 
Ncaa has to change the rule way to much guessing on the ref or replay offical with the intent of player fair catching/returning the ball

agreed.

why not make it this:

* if the punt returner waves his arm above his head at least to the left & to the right he's not touchable and the ball is dead if and where it is caught

* if the punt returner does not do this, he's subject to being legally hit/tackled and the ball can be advanced by the returning team once in possession
 
I say throw the freaking reviews out. Period. I prefer to go back when officials knew they had to make the correct call. And if they didn't, then we would still have things to discuss, just as we do now.
 
agreed.

why not make it this:

* if the punt returner waves his arm above his head at least to the left & to the right he's not touchable and the ball is dead if and where it is caught

* if the punt returner does not do this, he's subject to being legally hit/tackled and the ball can be advanced by the returning team once in possession

Even simpler, if the receiver does not make a valid fair catch signal the play remains live.
 
Note that there was an NCAA rules official on the call as well. As you saw in the article, they say it's reviewable.

So, I have no idea what's what anymore. LOL

3 days later and this still stinks.
So show me where it states that should be hammered into their skulls by every journalist with integrity. It doesn't say it.
 
What ever happened to "indisputable video evidence" before a call is overturned?
I'm not sure how you go from 'not called on the field' to indisputable video evidence upon review. Take the 1000's of plays that go to review in a season and show me a play or percentage where this ever happens regardless of what the original infraction might have been or thought to be. Has to be razor thin.
 
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no on field official called anything except a touchdown for Iowa.

the replay official in the booth apparently thought it was indisputable and made the final call

what a fooking mess
Coop should've tripped at the 5 and we we wouldn't be having this discussion today..:)

Instead, we would be talking how in the world we continue to trot out the worst QB in all of FBS (and maybe FCS) in lieu of Labas who started and won a bowl game...but then, you know, I don't see practice so what the hell do I know? But I do see games, and isn't that what matters?
 
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Coop should've tripped at the 5 and we we wouldn't be having this discussion today..:)

Instead, we would be talking how in the world we continue to trot out the worst QB in all of FBS (and maybe FCS) in lieu of Labas who started and won a bowl game...but then, you know, I don't see practice so what the hell do I know? But I do see games, and isn't that what matters?

Our offense, in the 2nd half: 12 yards, 0 points

Hill's fumble gave Minny 3 points

In our final possession: we only had to move the ball 24 yards to be in position for a game winning FG. Hill throws a pick.
 
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Our offense, in the 2nd half: 12 yards, 0 points

Hill's fumble gave Minny 3 points

In our final possession: we only had to move the ball 24 yards to be in position for a game winning FG. Hill throws a pick.

Yeah I didn’t realize until the end of the game how truly abysmal the 2nd half stats were in particular. And what’s stupid is we still were in position to/should have won the game one way or another.
 
So do we know for sure whether the review “official” (and I use that term very loosely) requested the review to check for an invalid fair catch signal? Or did he just go, “Hey, look here — he’s moving his left arm as he runs to the ball — might as well nullify possibly the best single play in college football this season and hand the game to the Goofs.”

I think this is important to know. If this fool decided to overturn the result of the game based on an afterthought, it’s even more egregious. SIAP hue I haven’t seen this confirmed.
 
Our offense, in the 2nd half: 12 yards, 0 points

Hill's fumble gave Minny 3 points

In our final possession: we only had to move the ball 24 yards to be in position for a game winning FG. Hill throws a pick.
The pick was bad but the sack on first down was the killer. Absolutely no way that “offense” was going to get into FG range after that. Absolutely beyond pathetic.
 
So do we know for sure whether the review “official” (and I use that term very loosely) requested the review to check for an invalid fair catch signal?

From the story, it appears he did. The play would have stood if he hadn't gotten involved.

He can consult with the B1G replay officials but he has the final say.
 
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I won't hold my breathe waiting for a replay official to overturn a scoring play for a holding call that wasn't made on the field.
This ruling only makes it worse.
The replay official makes a stoppage to make a call that had 0 to do with the play. There is no way he buzzed down to stop play based on that vs out of bounds.
 
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Then there was also a breakdown in communication: Kirk has been very clear he was told they were checking on OOB by cooper.

I am afraid KF didn't get the whole story from the on field officials because, from the story in the orig post, once in review, they can review the whole play
 
Our offense, in the 2nd half: 12 yards, 0 points

Hill's fumble gave Minny 3 points

In our final possession: we only had to move the ball 24 yards to be in position for a game winning FG. Hill throws a pick.
I was thinking right after the overturn would've been a golden opportunity for a trick play...RB pass, jet sweep pass, SOMETHING! You just knew we were going to screw that up and NOT get 20 yards, hell depending on the wind Stevens can probably hit from close to 60 yards.
 
The whole podcast is going to be good. As Scott says in the 2nd video, this rule will likely get changed in the offseason.

Here's 2 segments of the podcast to watch:





 
The pick was bad but the sack on first down was the killer. Absolutely no way that “offense” was going to get into FG range after that. Absolutely beyond pathetic.
Even if he had caught it on a valid fair catch signal, I don’t believe we were getting into FG range.

But yeah, you could feel the doom in the stadium after they overturned that TD. Not just because of the confusion and comedown from the emotional high. We all knew we had just lost the game.
 
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I just want one of the reporters in Iowa to ask the Big Ten or NCAA where in the rule book it says that an invalid fair catch is reviewable. Please just one person ask them that question.

It only says a fair catch is reviewable. And if they point to that, then you point to the different part of the rule book that explicitly says that an invalid fair catch is not a fair catch. Then again ask them where it says that an invalid fair catch is reviewable.

They are making up the reviewability of an invalid fair catch to cover their rear ends and nobody is calling them out on it. If they say that the replay allows them to review all aspects of the play, even something that isn't defined as reviewable in the rule book, then all bets are off the table on any replay for any penalty or violation.

Replace bowling with football.
nam.jpg
 
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But if they are reviewing if he stepped out of bounds and then noticed the invalid fair catch then that opens it up to reviewing all touchdowns and look for holding or any other infraction.

Holding, block in the back, facemask, hands to the face are not reviewable calls.

In/out of bounds and fair catches are. Invalid fair catches are not mentioned however as far as reviewable criteria.


The fact that CDJ scored has absolutely zero to do with this replay review. Other than the fact the replay official did not want him to score for whatever reason. All plays in college are reviewed by the replay booth official, scoring or not.
 
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