Starting My Religion

[What Would Jesus Do?]

With apologies to REM.

Since I cut the cable I haven't been keeping up with John Olivor. So SIAP. This bit on religious frauds, religious money-grubbing, the IRS, and John starting his own religion is delightful.

 

[naturalmwa]

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[TexMichFan]

You guys already have a religion.

 

[Pepperman]

John Oliver is the next Jon Stewart for the left.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

You guys already have a religion.

We do?

Do tell....

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

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It has never been easier to start your church! Become one of 1000's of churches that use the StartRIGHT™ Program to get started. In just 30 days you will receive everything you need to:

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• Have Customized, Ironclad Bylaws
• Establish and Protect Your Board
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• Become Ordained
• Be Able to Receive Tithes & Offerings

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Are you recommending this or just pointing it out?

 

[22*43*51]

We do?

Do tell....

 

[naturalmwa]

Are you recommending this or just pointing it out?

Just trying to help keep the faith alive. I think it's fun that capitalism is there with a turnkey solution even including ordination.

 

[Hawkeye009]

That was a great segment, and I hope that this issue gets more attention. I understand the tension between having a rule that prevents abuse and trying to not infringe on religious liberty. We could probably all agree, though, that there is no reason to allow parsonage allowances for homes worth more than $1 million. We can set the bar high enough to prevent abuse without catching those who are not abusing the system.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Just trying to help keep the faith alive. I think it's fun that capitalism is there with a turnkey solution even including ordination.

Capitalism has always been at its best at the frivolous and dumb things. Pet rocks, turnkey superstition.... For the important things we turn to government. Rural electrification, mail, Manhattan project, roads....

 

[TexMichFan]

We do?

Do tell....

The religion of telling other people what is wrong with their religion.

 

[dgordo]

We do?

Do tell....

Bewbs?

 

[strummingram]

I'm going to start one up around George Carlin. The irony would be stunning! I think Jesus was more about the message and the real awareness and understanding of ourselves and our fellow physical expressions (physicality of all kinds). Carlin was an incredibly wise person who had an amazing gift of communication. He wasn't an anti-theist, he just didn't believe God was an invisible Man In The Sky. I often think Jesus may have been someone who didn't want a religion started up around him, but his followers had different ideas.

 

[Jerome Silberman]

The religion of telling other people what is wrong with their religion.

Isn't that what all religions do?

 

[ottumwan in tx]

one must watch zeitgeist is one wants to learn about how to start a religion

 

[naturalmwa]

one must watch zeitgeist is one wants to learn about how to start a religion

It is a wonder how you hold so many contradictory religious views in your head at the same time. How do you decide when to follow John Hagee's version of Christianity and when to reject it as just a fake rebranding of pagan sun worship?

 

[TexMichFan]

Isn't that what all religions do?

Right that's why WWJD already has one - he is always telling us what is the problem with the other religions.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

It is a wonder how you hold so many contradictory religious views in your head at the same time. How do you decide when to follow John Hagee's version of Christianity and when to reject it as just a fake rebranding of pagan sun worship?

because I think, from my research, and from watching zeitgeist, and from thinking for myself, and from coming to conclusions, that most of what he says has merit and has actual foundations in the writings and teaching of the bible. most of what he says, maybe not all. for instance: I dislike joel olstein, and many other megachurch preachers. but, I can also see in the movie zeitgeist, about how some or most religions and religious people are frauds in this country. and in Europe. I don't sit there in church and believe 100% of what hagee says all the time. I really went there at first for his teachings on the biblical prophecy and isreal. I also listen to patriots and what the patriot movement has to say and what alex jones has to say, but don't agree 100% all the time. lately alex has been talking about god more and more. I do believe the founders started this country with the blessing of god and they called him the creator. I believe god or the creator grants our rights, and man is to not mess with those rights through his silly laws. I also believe the creator could be an alien in the heavens, ufo stuff. Hagee mentions spirits and ufos and demons and spirits and all kinds of things in his sermons..

 

[naturalmwa]

Right that's why WWJD already has one - he is always telling us what is the problem with the other religions.

Cool so we all believe the same thing. I'm right and all you other fools are wrong. I'm saved! I'll be awarding golden tickets to the afterlife for those that please me. Let the worshiping commence.

 

[naturalmwa]

because I think, from my research, and from watching zeitgeist, and from thinking for myself, and from coming to conclusions, that most of what he says has merit and has actual foundations in the writings and teaching of the bible. most of what he says, maybe not all. for instance: I dislike joel olstein, and many other megachurch preachers. but, I can also see in the movie zeitgeist, about how some or most religions and religious people are frauds in this country. and in Europe. I don't sit there in church and believe 100% of what hagee says all the time. I really went there at first for his teachings on the biblical prophecy and isreal. I also listen to patriots and what the patriot movement has to say and what alex jones has to say, but don't agree 100% all the time. lately alex has been talking about god more and more. I do believe the founders started this country with the blessing of god and they called him the creator. I believe god or the creator grants our rights, and man is to not mess with those rights through his silly laws. I also believe the creator could be an alien in the heavens, ufo stuff. Hagee mentions spirits and ufos and demons and spirits and all kinds of things in his sermons..

So you don't believe zeitgeist's explanation at all if this is what you hold. Zeitgeist says Jesus and Yahweh and the bible are all just tricks the priestly classes use to get people to worship the stars as in the original pagan religions. Do you think our rights come from the sun?

 

[TexMichFan]

Cool so we all believe the same thing. I'm right and all you other fools are wrong. I'm saved! I'll be awarding golden tickets to the afterlife for those that please me. Let the worshiping commence.

No, telling someone else they believe in magical fairy tales does not make you right.

I hope your religion works out well for you, thou I fear being worshiped is not all you will want it to be.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

The religion of telling other people what is wrong with their religion.

Ha! Good one.

And a very useful religion, I might add.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

So you don't believe zeitgeist's explanation at all if this is what you hold. Zeitgeist says Jesus and Yahweh and the bible are all just tricks the priestly classes use to get people to worship the stars as in the original pagan religions. Do you think our rights come from the sun?

no, I don't believe jesus was god. I believe jesus and god are two different things. this is where me and hagee part ways. yes, I think it is entirely possible our rights in this country come from the sun or heaven or aliens, an alien god. yes. I think what zeitgeist was proving was that people looked up, through history, to the heavens above, and the sun was up there. god was up there. aliens were up there. I think it's all one. I think jesus was an alien implant baby, and I think our founders possibly looked to the sun or an alien or a god. yes.I think they were free masons and this is what the masons believe as well.

 

[naturalmwa]

No, telling someone else they believe in magical fairy tales does not make you right.

I hope your religion works out well for you, thou I fear being worshiped is not all you will want it to be.

No reason to fear worshiping, its great foreplay.

 

[TennesseeWaltz1]

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Right that's why WWJD already has one - he is always telling us what is the problem with the other religions.

Somebody needs to.

At least I'm consistent. Most people think one religion is great and another is awful. In the west it's usually Christianity that's wonderful but which religion is considered most evil varies. Now it's Islam but for most of the Christian era it was Judaism. I wonder if it was Hinduism for a while when England was occupying and fighting in India. It's so much easier to get peasants and factory workers to die for God than for profits and upper class privilege.

 

[naturalmwa]

no, I don't believe jesus was god. I believe jesus and god are two different things. this is where me and hagee part ways. yes, I think it is entirely possible our rights in this country come from the sun or heaven or aliens, an alien god. yes. I think what zeitgeist was proving was that people looked up, through history, to the heavens above, and the sun was up there. god was up there. aliens were up there. I think it's all one. I think jesus was an alien implant baby, and I think our founders possible looked to the sun or an alien or a god. yes.

All this would mean the Bible is fake. So when you argue we can't do something because it contradicts the Bible, that should have no meaning. If you're right, what we should do is look to sun worshiping religions for guidance. They had some pretty fun ideas about what those stars wanted us to do. Look close.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I fear being worshiped is not all you will want it to be.

Being the recipient of tithes and virgins might grow old after a while, but I'd be willing to give it a try.

 

[TexMichFan]

Somebody needs to.

At least I'm consistent. Most people think one religion is great and another is awful. In the west it's usually Christianity that's wonderful but which religion is considered most evil varies. Now it's Islam but for most of the Christian era it was Judaism. I wonder if it was Hinduism for a while when England was occupying and fighting in India. It's so much easier to get peasants and factory workers to die for God than for profits and upper class privilege.

Yes you are consistent, it is one of your better traits.

You guys always want to make the religion the culprit and not the people who corrupted their religions for personal wealth and power. A lot of good is done in the name of religion on a daily basis and just like with the news the good is ignored in favor of the bad.

Your religion and the one Natural has laid out would be no better and no worse than the current ones. Only a religion of one can have complete control.

 

[Pepperman]

I've seen this John Oliver clip on Youtube. He makes a very clear distinction at the beginning that the show is about abusive money-making television churches, and based on what I know of these "churches", I have to agree with him.

Now what people need to do is differentiate between that garbage and a real church where people worship, gather socially, collect funds for the needy, volunteer their time, etc.

 

[DanL53]

I caught the part up front where Oliver mentions the 350,000 various congregations in the United States. (That's not different religions...but different individual church gatherings, and hopefully acting as semi-autonomous (at least) entities capable of thinking for themselves.)

Anyway. Of 350,000 congregations, the crackpots are still in the news practically every week (Westboro Baptist comes to mind). That tells me that the nutjobs are a relatively small number and if it weren't for these dolts getting attention the overall perception of churches would be better.

Then on the opposite side of Westboro are the anti-religion nutjobs who can't seem to allow others to believe what they want without trying to prove how stupid those people are. There is such a similarity there.

Oliver's show was bright and witty as usual. A good deal of humor tossed with some things to think about. Hate seeing it shoved down a barrel and fired rhetorically at anyone. His targets were specifically certain extreme examples of persons hiding behind a "church" façade to make money.

Sad that some sawed off the barrel of his point and are shooting wildly at anything that moves.

 

[strummingram]

You guys always want to make the religion the culprit and not the people who corrupted their religions for personal wealth and power. A lot of good is done in the name of religion on a daily basis and just like with the news the good is ignored in favor of the bad.

Your religion and the one Natural has laid out would be no better and no worse than the current ones. Only a religion of one can have complete control.

Very well said!

 

[aflachawk]

You guys already have a religion.

You are correct. It's the church of liberalism. The lone sacrament is abortion at any time in the pregnancy is sacrosanct. Like all religions it's based entirely on faith. The big truth is the omnipotence of a ever growing, always more powerful federal government. And many unprovable "truths" like man made global warming is going to kill us all.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Yes you are consistent, it is one of your better traits.

You guys always want to make the religion the culprit and not the people who corrupted their religions for personal wealth and power. A lot of good is done in the name of religion on a daily basis and just like with the news the good is ignored in favor of the bad.

Your religion and the one Natural has laid out would be no better and no worse than the current ones. Only a religion of one can have complete control.

Please. ALL of my religions would be better. Or at least more functional. And definitely more plausible.

But you raise a good point in the bolded part. My question would be which came first? On what grounds do we assume that the first followers/inventors of a religion were not corrupt and doing it for personal wealth and power?

From my perspective, the first guys who set themselves up in the religion racket were either delusional (as in hearing voices and such) or absolutely doing it to gain power and wealth (and chicks and whatever). I can think of a more benign and sane beginning to a religion but I don't consider it very likely that any religion has begun that way. I suppose I should add it to my list of plausible religions - bringing the total to 4.

 

[strummingram]

WWJD,

You need to check out Joseph Campbell and Neal Donald Walsch. They might give you a more sophisticated path to understanding what is beyond our senses that many people use religion to try and understand. You may come to realize that the myths are/were needed to explain the unexplained, an even provide some social structure and behavioral standards and order. And, yes, in the process, many who were in charge liked to abuse their status, but it doesn't mean the religion is any less of a conduit to God.

But, whether you realize it or not, you're limiting what "God" is, just as much as the religious people you deride on an hourly basis. You don't know it all. And, your high priests- the Scientists- don't know it all either. I'm really somewhat surprised at your constant aspersions toward anything beyond your 5 senses. You're not as open-minded as you like to sometimes portray yourself... from where I'm sitting.

 

[TexMichFan]

Please. ALL of my religions would be better. Or at least more functional. And definitely more plausible.

But you raise a good point in the bolded part. My question would be which came first? On what grounds do we assume that the first followers/inventors of a religion were not corrupt and doing it for personal wealth and power?

From my perspective, the first guys who set themselves up in the religion racket were either delusional (as in hearing voices and such) or absolutely doing it to gain power and wealth (and chicks and whatever). I can think of a more benign and sane beginning to a religion but I don't consider it very likely that any religion has begun that way. I suppose I should add it to my list of plausible religions - bringing the total to 4.

A very God like answer. I look forward to see how your better more functional religion translates from here to the real world. Get ready for some long hours you are going to have to do a lot of monitoring.

I do get a chuckle from your perspective that the first guys who set up religion were delusional or wanting wealth and power. Which of three or combination of the three apply to your new religion?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

WWJD,

You need to check out Joseph Campbell and Neal Donald Walsch. They might give you a more sophisticated path to understanding what is beyond our senses that many people use religion to try and understand. You may come to realize that the myths are/were needed to explain the unexplained, an even provide some social structure and behavioral standards and order. And, yes, in the process, many who were in charge liked to abuse their status, but it doesn't mean the religion is any less of a conduit to God.

But, whether you realize it or not, you're limiting what "God" is, just as much as the religious people you deride on an hourly basis. You don't know it all. And, your high priests- the Scientists- don't know it all either. I'm really somewhat surprised at your constant aspersions toward anything beyond your 5 senses. You're not as open-minded as you like to sometimes portray yourself... from where I'm sitting.

I'm open to facts. I'm open to reasoned argument. I'm even open to considering hypotheses that don't flout the laws of physics or logic.

What you said at first is just Anthropology 101. A field I took several courses in and came close to majoring in. Sure, religion had value to primitive man. It still does to modern men who indulge in primitive thinking.

The problem I have with your view is that you assume God and the supernatural. You say I'm limiting God. Would you also say I'm limiting the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Of course not. Because you don't assume the FSM. My not knowing it all doesn't mean that the irrational and illogical and scientifically unsupportable might be true.

So answer me this. Suppose you were talking with an adherent of, say, Zoroastrianism. And suppose he used arguments like yours to convince you that his God is the real God and his religion the only true religion. Would you be convinced?

I'm guessing you would not be convinced. But you might brush it off as just a minor deviation, since he does believe what you do in broad strokes: God and the supernatural. But atheists do not believe in God and the supernatural. So those sorts of arguments and that sort of "close enough" never come into play. And they never will as long as what you are basically saying is that you have to believe before you'll understand. Which, when you think about it, sounds a lot like saying you'll find out what's in the bill after you pass it.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

A very God like answer. I look forward to see how your better more functional religion translates from here to the real world. Get ready for some long hours you are going to have to do a lot of monitoring.

I do get a chuckle from your perspective that the first guys who set up religion were delusional or wanting wealth and power. Which of three or combination of the three apply to your new religion?

None.

I like that you are already sounding judgmental before learning about my smorgasbord of more plausible religions. Personally, I try to learn about a religion from adherents or scholars before I decide whether they are nonsense or merely trivial. So far, all (except mine) have fallen into one of those categories, although I leave open the possibility that I might someday be surprised,

 

[DanL53]

Please. ALL of my religions would be better. Or at least more functional. And definitely more plausible.

But you raise a good point in the bolded part. My question would be which came first? On what grounds do we assume that the first followers/inventors of a religion were not corrupt and doing it for personal wealth and power?

From my perspective, the first guys who set themselves up in the religion racket were either delusional (as in hearing voices and such) or absolutely doing it to gain power and wealth (and chicks and whatever). I can think of a more benign and sane beginning to a religion but I don't consider it very likely that any religion has begun that way. I suppose I should add it to my list of plausible religions - bringing the total to 4.

I believe you just stepped in a stinky by revealing your notion that the first persons involved in faith were working a scam, or delusional. In scientific terms, that is called a bias.

Scientific bias is the assumption that a theory is true or false without evidence one way or another, or the attempt to dismiss or discourage research efforts to confirm or deny the theory - often on political or ideological grounds.

 

[TexMichFan]

None.

I like that you are already sounding judgmental before learning about my smorgasbord of more plausible religions. Personally, I try to learn about a religion from adherents or scholars before I decide whether they are nonsense or merely trivial. So far, all (except mine) have fallen into one of those categories, although I leave open the possibility that I might someday be surprised,

Me judgmental?

I was just quoting your reasons behind the start up of religions in this thread back to you. You seem to give yourself the benefit of the doubt but have a low tolerance when extending it to someone else.