Stop with the step out talk!

[MSU158]

Aggression, action and offense are being rewarded far more imo and at least from the fan perspective, the offense dominant guys are reaping the rewards and letting it fly more.
Just the fact 2 tds by one wrestler and 2 escapes by the other are no longer separated by a single td score wise is visible and showing up in matches. Nothing I hated more than seeing a guy get 2 tds, give up 2 escapes, then give up a td near the end of the period so the score was tied going into the next period or end of the match.

I guess that is the part where we fundamentally disagree and why we see things so differently. I know I have a tendency to "stir the pot", but this isn't one of those cases. I get where you are coming from as a fan, but I truly LOVE mat wrestling. It is the aspect of folkstyle that makes me love it considerably more than free. Mind you, I was actually much better in free, so it isn't like I have a bias from direct personal experiences. I just simply appreciate how hard it is to ride someone at that level and how equally hard it is to escape from one.

Point blank, I DON'T want folkstyle to end up basically morphing into "catch and release" which is damn near what free is now. I like the aspect of "control" that mat wrestling provides and I absolutely do think that how you wrestle on the mat should be able to equalize a takedown or 2 if you are that much better than the other guy on top and bottom. I don't want mat wrestling de-emphasized because a certain group of fans are more entertained by neutral wrestling. I appreciate how hard it is to get back to your base once you are bellied out and watch that area with greater anticipation than I do a few less than committed ties and head fakes...

 

[DeangeloVickers]

I guess that is the part where we fundamentally disagree and why we see things so differently. I know I have a tendency to "stir the pot", but this isn't one of those cases. I get where you are coming from as a fan, but I truly LOVE mat wrestling. It is the aspect of folkstyle that makes me love it considerably more than free. Mind you, I was actually much better in free, so it isn't like I have a bias from direct personal experiences. I just simply appreciate how hard it is to ride someone at that level and how equally hard it is to escape from one.

Point blank, I DON'T want folkstyle to end up basically morphing into "catch and release" which is damn near what free is now. I like the aspect of "control" that mat wrestling provides and I absolutely do think that how you wrestle on the mat should be able to equalize a takedown or 2 if you are that much better than the other guy on top and bottom. I don't want mat wrestling de-emphasized because a certain group of fans are more entertained by neutral wrestling. I appreciate how hard it is to get back to your base once you are bellied out and watch that area with greater anticipation than I do a few less than committed ties and head fakes...

Which a pushout point/rule would have no effect on.

 

[MSU158]

Which a pushout point/rule would have no effect on.

Separate argument, but still part of the same coin. I already listed my specific concerns with how that rule would apply to folkstyle, but my biggest fear, simply falls to, the more you emphasize rules that change it to align with free, the more likely it will be, that it ends up completely changing to exactly that...

 

[acuhawk]

Separate argument, but still part of the same coin. I already listed my specific concerns with how that rule would apply to folkstyle, but my biggest fear, simply falls to, the more you emphasize rules that change it to align with free, the more likely it will be, that it ends up completely changing to exactly that...

That's a valid concern and I don't want folk to ever go to free. However, we need some sort of push out rule. The officials are horribly inconsistent and some are just biased. Take the guesswork out of it.

 

[Sett1997]

I guess I am "old school", but I just don't see how a 3 point takedown has improved the actual wrestling match, whatsoever. What specifically has it improved? How and why? It makes the scoreboard higher and devalues escapes to a degree, but I just don't see how the actual wrestling is any better or, all of a sudden, more entertaining.

I simply don't like change for the sake of change. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" Especially when most don't see that any change/fix can actually hurt and isn't guaranteed to help. This is especially true in a fringe sport where you can add tractor pulls, mascot races and any other gimmick you can think of and it still isn't going to get REMOTELY the same fanfare as football or basketball...

I want pre- meet tractor pulls! 😍😍

 

[so cal hawkfan]

Was watching women's pro soccer match over the weekend and late in a 0-0 match the ref sent off a player for dissent (second yellow card)... can't remember last time seen something like that. people complain that they don't like XYZ and they design rules, and then refs/officials are afraid to enforce because they don't want to be the story/decide big matches/games.

Doesn't matter if it’s targeting, stalling, talking back to officials, the rules are there, the officials just have to enforce, and we as fans need to understand that's what we asked for.

You lost me at “watching women’s soccer match”

 

[cwobrien11]

College wrestling has an abundance of guys that hug the edge of the mat tactically. They either set up for a counter or they step out and get a restart with no penalty.

As an example, go watch the Ayala-Figueroa match from the finals last year. Figueroa was within one step of the boundary for nearly 5 minutes of the match. Many times he stepped two feet out to create space where Ayala couldn’t chase him. His two takedowns occurred on counters to Ayala shots near the edge. On other Atala shots he simply backed out with at least one foot beyond the circle, sometimes both.

With a step out rule, he can’t do that. It forces a guy like him to stay closer to center and prevents him from using the boundary as a savior.

Note: sooo much stalling in that match. If they had called it by rule, the outcome is drastically different.

 

[acuhawk]

College wrestling has an abundance of guys that hug the edge of the mat tactically. They either set up for a counter or they step out and get a restart with no penalty.

As an example, go watch the Ayala-Figueroa match from the finals last year. Figueroa was within one step of the boundary for nearly 5 minutes of the match. Many times he stepped two feet out to create space where Ayala couldn’t chase him. His two takedowns occurred on counters to Ayala shots near the edge. On other Atala shots he simply backed out with at least one foot beyond the circle, sometimes both.

With a step out rule, he can’t do that. It forces a guy like him to stay closer to center and prevents him from using the boundary as a savior.

Note: sooo much stalling in that match. If they had called it by rule, the outcome is drastically different.

Or if they would have simply called it like they did the other matches in the finals that night it would have been a different outcome. Messineek got a stall call in his favor without taking a shot.

 

[DeangeloVickers]

Or if they would have simply called it like they did the other matches in the finals that night it would have been a different outcome. Messinprick got a stall call in his favor without taking a shot.

Which is exactly why proponents want a push out rule... it would take the subjectivity of stalling on the edge away and remove some additional inconsistencies from officiating.

 

[LetsGoHawks83]

Which is exactly why proponents want a push out rule... it would take the subjectivity of stalling on the edge away and remove some additional inconsistencies from officiating.

You mean taking the subjectivity like we saw with Captain Stall call tonight? The dude took a challenge brick for a takedown on the edge and decided to call fleeing. What a PSU homer

 

[ff141]

Man I was wrong. All that exciting edge wrestling in Arnold and Smiths match has changed my mind.