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Supreme Court will hear NCAA case on college athlete pay

bman546

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I am against paying athletes. It will ruin college sports as we know them. The old obvious arguments, many are getting scholarship and education is more valuable than anything.
It opens up a can of worms for abuse, and makes it easier to hide signs of illegal payments.
There are many more arguments against, but my main argument is, it will destroy some sports, or athletic departments.
The Alabama's, Lsu's, Ohio States can afford (if they choose) to pay the maximum allowed by the NCAA/what the court says. Lesser schools in the Power 5, and those in mid-majors will face a terrible situation. Most of those outside the top Power 5 are losing money with the athletic department. This adds significant cost to an already strapped system. If paid what happens to that loss? It increases, and creates a bigger divide between the top 10% and everyone else. Iowa recently generated a 5-6 million profit, but that money is also used for updates to Kinnick, and other facilities etc. If Iowa was truly generating a lot of revenue, how come updating the wrestling facilities to keep pace with the other top tier programs is coming from private donations. Even Ohio State's wrestling room, the newest and best in D1 was funded privately. Recruiting will turn into
'"Ok, you will give me a scholarship for football (or in another sport such as wrestling, a 50% scholarship for example) but, how much will you pay me? This will lead to so many schools losing their ass more than they already do. If you think Alabama gets the most 4* and 5* recruits now, wait until they also pay the max allowed, while other schools have to pay less, or drop programs. Paying athletes is a bad idea. Depending on tuition costs (in state/out of state) a football scholarship athlete at Iowa could be getting the equivalent of $50,000-$135,000.

"While schools in the five autonomy conferences generate more revenue (via ticket sales, broadcast rights, and NCAA and conference distributions, among other sources) than their counterparts in the rest of Division I, median athletics expenses at those 65 schools exceeded their total generated revenues by roughly $7 million in 2019. Meanwhile, among the nonautonomy schools in Division I, median expenses outpaced generated revenues by nearly $23 million. Schools account for those deficits by subsidizing athletics via student activity fees and direct support from the university, among other means."

 
I am 50/50 on this.

I guess I could get behind "paying" them but it should be a set amount for D1, D2, etc and Football, BB, Baseball, etc. We CANT have schools paying players absurd amounts and other schools paying way less for like division and sport.
 
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So basically they want to increase the stipends already paid to student athletes (I think Iowa pays them each around $4K) in addition to their tuition, room, board, books, etc.

If schools start paying male athletes more than female all hell will break loose.

Not to mention those dollars that once went to fund all other sports will have to be made up somewhere, most likely in the form of cuts.
 
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So basically they want to increase the stipends already paid to student athletes (I think Iowa pays them each around $4K) in addition to their tuition, room, board, books, etc.

If schools start paying male athletes more than female all hell will break loose.

Not to mention those dollars that once went to fund all other sports will have to be made up somewhere, most likely in the form of cuts.

All hell needs to break loose on title nine. It is overdue for a real review in front of the courts.
 
They’re adults performing work that others profit off of, they should be paid. It’s as simple as that. They should also pay tax on the scholarship they’ve been gifted. I really don’t care what this means to college athletics. We will all look back in 20 years and think about how ridiculous it was that athletes didn’t get paid while the coaches made millions.
 
They’re adults performing work that others profit off of, they should be paid. It’s as simple as that. They should also pay tax on the scholarship they’ve been gifted. I really don’t care what this means to college athletics. We will all look back in 20 years and think about how ridiculous it was that athletes didn’t get paid while the coaches made millions.

Understood but the “argument” would be they’re already getting paid with the scholly. Would you pay them a set amount? Let each player negotiate? Set amount for specific sports? Revenue versus non-revenue? There are a number of tentacles to the subject and actually just curious of folks various thoughts.
 
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Paying players to play? Sure, why not.

I hope it also means no more scholarships. They can pay tuition, room/board (and take out loans if necessary) just like all of the other people who are born average, and I assume under a new system their newfound "pay" can be used to offset some of this cost. Also, be sure put the extra fees for the tutors and fancy football player food on their UBILL. Oh, and don't forget *income taxes!!!



*Due and owing of course in every state where earned and labor is performed. I'm guessing each player would have to file 4 to 5 state income tax returns. Enjoy your net earnings guys, you earned it 😉
 
I am against paying athletes. It will ruin college sports as we know them. The old obvious arguments, many are getting scholarship and education is more valuable than anything.
It opens up a can of worms for abuse, and makes it easier to hide signs of illegal payments.
There are many more arguments against, but my main argument is, it will destroy some sports, or athletic departments.
The Alabama's, Lsu's, Ohio States can afford (if they choose) to pay the maximum allowed by the NCAA/what the court says. Lesser schools in the Power 5, and those in mid-majors will face a terrible situation. Most of those outside the top Power 5 are losing money with the athletic department. This adds significant cost to an already strapped system. If paid what happens to that loss? It increases, and creates a bigger divide between the top 10% and everyone else. Iowa recently generated a 5-6 million profit, but that money is also used for updates to Kinnick, and other facilities etc. If Iowa was truly generating a lot of revenue, how come updating the wrestling facilities to keep pace with the other top tier programs is coming from private donations. Even Ohio State's wrestling room, the newest and best in D1 was funded privately. Recruiting will turn into
'"Ok, you will give me a scholarship for football (or in another sport such as wrestling, a 50% scholarship for example) but, how much will you pay me? This will lead to so many schools losing their ass more than they already do. If you think Alabama gets the most 4* and 5* recruits now, wait until they also pay the max allowed, while other schools have to pay less, or drop programs. Paying athletes is a bad idea. Depending on tuition costs (in state/out of state) a football scholarship athlete at Iowa could be getting the equivalent of $50,000-$135,000.

"While schools in the five autonomy conferences generate more revenue (via ticket sales, broadcast rights, and NCAA and conference distributions, among other sources) than their counterparts in the rest of Division I, median athletics expenses at those 65 schools exceeded their total generated revenues by roughly $7 million in 2019. Meanwhile, among the nonautonomy schools in Division I, median expenses outpaced generated revenues by nearly $23 million. Schools account for those deficits by subsidizing athletics via student activity fees and direct support from the university, among other means."

This isn’t just about paying athletes. Read the actual case. It is covering full cost of going to school.
 
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Weird...I get all kinds of benefits beyond salary at my job. That includes tuition if I need to go to school to improve my education. Like a scholarship. I don't pay taxes on many of those benefits.
 
This isn’t just about paying athletes. Read the actual case. It is covering full cost of going to school.
What additional costs do students have besides tuition, room, board, books, and insurance that are already covered? Gas money? Beer money? Money for new clothes? Like I mentioned before, they already get about $4K a year to cover these costs. Plus they can still get student loans.
 
Understood but the “argument” would be they’re already getting paid with the scholly. Would you pay them a set amount? Let each player negotiate? Set amount for specific sports? Revenue versus non-revenue? There are a number of tentacles to the subject and actually just curious of folks various thoughts.

I don’t really care to make this a revenue vs non revenue issue as that’s specific to each school, e.g. wrestling at Iowa is a revenue sport while it’s not almost anywhere else

At its root, they’re basically interns auditioning for a full time job. My interns make (if you extrapolate it out over the course of a year) over $70k, and I’m not pulling in millions. Let the free market figure it out, what it does to collegiate athletics is irrelevant - these are adults with skills, compensate them for it like any other business or non profit does
 
Jay Bilas made a ton of good points on Jordan Bohannons podcast.

Just to name a few:

-Players are already getting paid.
-It won't ruin the game because people just want to see the games.
-These guys are professionals and in some cases asked to do more than professionals.

The NCAA doesn't want to pay athletes because of one reason...it takes away from
 
What additional costs do students have besides tuition, room, board, books, and insurance that are already covered? Gas money? Beer money? Money for new clothes? Like I mentioned before, they already get about $4K a year to cover these costs. Plus they can still get student loans.

It’s only education related expenditures that the court ruled in favor of. Said NCAA couldn’t cap it. Some schools are more expensive than others so it doesn’t make sense to have a cap on educated related expenditures. Like I said. Read what the actual case says.
now if you want to discuss actually playing players. I think players should be able to make money on NIL and even get paid. But that’s not what this case is about.
 
I don’t really care to make this a revenue vs non revenue issue as that’s specific to each school, e.g. wrestling at Iowa is a revenue sport while it’s not almost anywhere else

At its root, they’re basically interns auditioning for a full time job. My interns make (if you extrapolate it out over the course of a year) over $70k, and I’m not pulling in millions. Let the free market figure it out, what it does to collegiate athletics is irrelevant - these are adults with skills, compensate them for it like any other business or non profit does


Not disagreeing or agreeing with you, just pointing out that it's A LOT more difficult than just "pay them". Your wrestling point is one of those different issues that would need to be addressed and exactly for the reason you mention. In a world that's so hyper-focused on equity of outcome, you WILL NOT be able to figure out a solution that works. Does the crew team get the same dollar amount that the football team does? Do the men's hoopers get more than the women's hoopers? And the big question; where does the money come from? Do the crew, track, and other teams become 'club' teams? Does tuition go up so the regular students cover the cost for the athletes?
Look, I'm really not trying to be a tool, nor do I necessarily disagree with the idea. I understand that the cost of school is more than tuition, room, and board. And I also get that for a lot of these kids, the sport is almost a full-time job. But every other student is paying those costs, plus everything else. And many of them are working to do it.
 
I don’t really care to make this a revenue vs non revenue issue as that’s specific to each school, e.g. wrestling at Iowa is a revenue sport while it’s not almost anywhere else

At its root, they’re basically interns auditioning for a full time job. My interns make (if you extrapolate it out over the course of a year) over $70k, and I’m not pulling in millions. Let the free market figure it out, what it does to collegiate athletics is irrelevant - these are adults with skills, compensate them for it like any other business or non profit does

I generally agree that they should be paid, or at least the model changed. I'm not sure the analogy about interns is quite on point, but reasonable people can disagree. Very, very small percentage of college athletes (male or female) ever go on to make the sport they are playing a full-time profession after college. And if this is to work, it seems somehow they will need to separate how the men's basketball and football players are treated vs the rest of the athletes. Schools will simply not have the money to fund other sports. And they certainly won't have the money to pay for tens of non-coaching football staff or to pay the baseball or softball coach hundreds of thousands of dollars or the women's basketball coach more than $500k.

It's the NCAA's own fault for letting it get to this point. They could have done something about this years ago before it got to the courts. There should have been a way to get the athletes some more $ while allowing for funding of all the non-revenue sports. And now it's in the courts, where the entire model could be overturned. COVID has dried up the funding for many college sports anyway, so all of it could become moot. Without a return to full football and basketball stadiums, there won't be the big revenue streams to pay coaches and administrators the high salaries they have been getting.
 
-Players are already getting paid.
Agreed. In the form of tuition, room, board, insurance, fees, and stipend.
-It won't ruin the game because people just want to see the games.
It will ruin it for a lot of people. Most schools run in the red already. This will encourage/force them to make concessions either in the form of consciously knowing they will no longer be able to compete or by cutting other programs in order to compete in some sports.

-These guys are professionals and in some cases asked to do more than professionals.
Agree to a point, but they also get a slew of benefits not afforded to others.

The NCAA doesn't want to pay athletes because of one reason...it takes away from
The NCAA doesn’t want to pay athletes more than they already do because it will eliminate competitive balance. And in order to pay athletes more they’d have to make cuts elsewhere. Plus, it will be a title 9 issue when men’s basketball players start getting paid more than women’s (just look at the women’s soccer— despite their World Cup brining in a fraction of men’s they expect equal pay). And then do you pay the gymnastics team (assuming it’s not already cut) the same as football team?

People look at football and men’s basketball and see all the revenue they bring in and how much they pay their coaches, but fail to comprehend the countless other sports (including all women’s sports) that are propped up by those two. Schools pay their football and basketball coaches those amounts because they try and get and keep the best coaches to create the most competitive football and basketball teams. There’s a direct correlation between success on the field and revenue. More revenue leads to more opportunities elsewhere.
 
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Why is the concern here about non revenue sports? Collegiate athletics is a marketing arm of the institution and the existence of many of the non revenue sports is a legacy-driven dead weight on almost every athletic department. If they disappear, so be it. If a school or its boosters want to fund them, so be it. We need to move past the mentality of whether schools can maintain the status quo and most importantly, get a new college football video game out
 
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I thought this all started in regards to getting paid for nameing rights and income. i.e. shirts with player names (or numbers) on them, etc. Letting them do promotions for products maybe and get royalties. Go ahead and allow this with regulation so boosters aren't paying thousands (sort of under the table).
This way the non-revenue folks aren't impacted and women get what they can - which wouldn't be near what the men get but neither do WNBA players get what NBA players get.
 
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I still think the Olympic model of allowing endorsements works best.

Doesn't cost the school itself. The free market determines who gets paid. Men and women are treated equally.
 
I still think the Olympic model of allowing endorsements works best.

Doesn't cost the school itself. The free market determines who gets paid. Men and women are treated equally.

Really, seems like the only fair way to do it.
 
It seems like between the playoffs and paying college athletes, people are determined to kill the Golden Goose.

We can all agree that these programs are swimming in money. Perhaps a good solution, instead of paying players, would be to require a certain percentage paid back into academic scholarships.
 
until you figure out that schools like alabama will immediately be able to offer much more lucrative packages than other schools. This will be like going to unlimited scholarship days.


"here's our training facilities, here are the dorms, and here are the list of sponsors that are willing to sign you to advertising deals as soon as you sign your LOI".
Agreed, and I do think they should be able to profit off "their images", but the logistics of how that would work are still a question.
 
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Here's the struggle. If you allow a small percentage of players to profit from their likeness, thats great for them. But it kinda isn't fair to the athletes that dedicate a lot of time to their craft but aren't receiving any endorsements because of the sport they have chosen. I kinda prefer that the colleges distribute a percentage of the profits from sports to go back evenly to EVERY athlete. But then that leaves the bookkeeping up to the colleges who will probably figure out ways to make it look like they are not profiting from sports.

But i still think the "small percentage" who want to make money off their likeness wont be happy with that solution. This will also lead to less athletes playing 'less popular' sports and we will have only basketball and football at every college.

Its not a simple problem to solve.
 
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Here's the struggle. If you allow a small percentage of players to profit from their likeness, thats great for them. But it kinda isn't fair to the athletes that dedicate a lot of time to their craft but aren't receiving any endorsements because of the sport they have chosen. I kinda prefer that the colleges distribute a percentage of the profits from sports to go back evenly to EVERY athlete. But then that leaves the bookkeeping up to the colleges who will probably figure out ways to make it look like they are not profiting from sports.

But i still think the "small percentage" who want to make money off their likeness wont be happy with that solution. This will also lead to less athletes playing 'less popular' sports and we will have only basketball and football at every college.

Its not a simple problem to solve.


Very well put. IMO, the bill being introduced by the congressional folks I linked to above would speed up the death of the 'less popular' sports.
One could argue that the marketplace would be deciding which athletes/sports it wants to see, and that would be another leg to this discussion.
 
This isn’t just about paying athletes. Read the actual case. It is covering full cost of going to school.

First of all I did read the case. And, David1979, you're wrong.

When the plaintiffs lawyer, Jeffrey Kessler, says this,
“It is time for the Supreme Court to reaffirm that the big multibillion-dollar businesses of Division I basketball and FBS football are fully subject to antirust review and that the era of exploiting the athletes who provide the labor in these businesses must come to an end.”

What do you actually think it is about again? The argument is about
barring the NCAA from capping education-related compensation and benefits for student-athletes in Division I football and basketball programs. -- Any amount of uncapped pay could be tied to "education."

The NCAA had said the ruling "effectively created a pay-for-play system for all student-athletes, allowing them to be paid both 'unlimited' amounts for participating in 'internships'" and an additional $5,600 or more each year they remain eligible to play their sport.
An internship? Some honest brokers will abide by the rules. Many athletes already complete (legit) internships. Now, some "internships" will be like the part time job an athlete has at the car dealership detailing cars. They never show up for work once, someone else punches their time card ever day and they get paid $15/hour. The paycheck shows up every two weeks. It is no different. A big wealthy booster has an internship waiting for you if you come here and play football at our school. The pay for the internship is (how many zeros will it take to sign that NLI?).

Gabe Feldman, director of the sports law program at Tulane is quoted as saying, “This case, and I don’t think it’s overstating it, depending on how it is decided could fundamentally change the structure of college sports and the relationship between college athletes and their schools and conferences,” Feldman said. “It could open the door to significant competition between schools for athletes’ services, and ultimately allow schools to pay anything they want to try to attract the athlete. Or it could completely shut down that competition.

The natural progression from this case will be to just pay athletes. And it isn't limited to the full cost of school. Btw, that is a very vague definition anyway and means whatever amount we want to pay our athlete. College athletics will go back to being like Oklahoma football in the 1950s, or Eric Dickerson getting a car from Texas A&M.

It will essentially ruin amateur college sports.

Lastly, why only football and basketball? The next lawsuit will be discrimination and an equal protection filing. It is gender biased since it only includes women's basketball, but football has 100+ males only on the team. No fair, that's discrimination... And it actually will be Title IX galore on this one. Why are so many males getting greater compensation and us women field hockey players don't? The year after that, a wrestler files a similar lawsuit. The rules should be equally applied. Think PSU is bending the rules with their RTC, wait for the floodgates to open at multiple schools if the NCAA loses this case.
 
Lawyers are chomping at the bit. Talk about infusing corruption into college sports here you go. Follow the money.
 
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