I have a nephew that plays on the Hawkeye football team. Two of my nephews play high school basketball in Iowa. Only one plays varsity. They both made the bowl trip with my brother and sister in law. Due to expenses they drove out to California so the kids missed 5 Christmas basketball practices. They have a big conference game tonight and are both going to play in the game. I was tailgating with another parent of a Hawkeye and he said his sons missed two practices and will be suspended for the first game back. I feel bad for the parents and his sons as they missed out on all the family activities that were put on for parents/families throughout the week. Should a high school wrestling or basketball coach suspend players for attending their brothers Rose Bowl game? Thoughts? Would a high school coach not attend the game if his brother were playing in such a prestigious event?
Suspension Thoughts?
- Thread starter NEIAHAWKEYE
- Start date
If the coach is made aware of the trip beforehand and they are watching a sibling play in the Rose Bowl, I can't see sitting them. Does the coach really want the kids to stay home while their brother plays in the freaking Rose Bowl? I understand having rules about not missing practice but have some common sense in situations like this...
Each coach probably creates their own policy. Missed practices should have some sort of repercussion, especially if it isn't illness related. But at the same time there should be some flexibility/understanding around the holidays and Rose Bowl with a brother playing. Maybe just not start the next game back.
I don't necessarily agree with a suspension for missing practice for a family members participation in the Rose Bowl, but at the same time there have to be consequences for missing practice time, especially if you miss nearly an entire week. Perhaps not starting would be a more appropriate form of punishment, or sitting out the first quarter or half. As a parent and a student, choices are made and there will be consequences for all actions. Its a slippery slope for a coach to waive penalties for such a 'prestigious event' as you suggest. Each player on the team and their families may value other things more than a Rose Bowl appearance and vacation. If student A is given a pass to miss a week for a trip to California, why shouldn't others be allowed to take time off to visit family in Ohio or Georgia for example? The players have a commitment to each other and the team was likely expected to be present for practice during the holidays, if one misses time I think there has to be some form of punishment so no I don't have a huge issue with the coach suspending the players for one game for missing time. I think the penalty should have been less, but no penalty at all is probably worse.
My wife has been a coach for a while now and I know other coaches as well, they probably would have sat the players for a portion of the game if not the whole game. It not so much a punishment as it is a way of rewarding the kids who do make sure they show up to practice every day. If they were told far enough in advance maybe they just don't start but are still allowed to play some. I'm sure each coach has their own system and set of rules.
IMO, such suspensions are not uncommon, I've heard of this policy at several HSs in towns i've lived in over the years. The parents knew the trade off for going to the bowl, as did their kids. They made a family choice, and again IMO, a good lifetime memory choice vs. missing one game.
E.g., our high school suspended our starting pt guard for missing practices for his grandmother's out of town funeral. While on the surface this seems to merit an exception, the parents and player knew of the rule and said they accepted the expected compliance without whining, petitioning, or bad-mouthing the school or coach. Obviously, the choice to attend the funeral was a no-brainer for the family.
A life lesson.
What if they missed 5 practices to watch their little sister's 6th grade volleyball tournament?
What if they missed 5 practices because of their family tradition of playing PS3 for two solid weeks?
They missed 5 practices. Other kids probably found a way to show up.
Lots of people fail to fulfill their obligations in life, and they all have excuses. The best thing to do is treat all excuses the same.
What if they missed 5 practices because of their family tradition of playing PS3 for two solid weeks?
They missed 5 practices. Other kids probably found a way to show up.
Lots of people fail to fulfill their obligations in life, and they all have excuses. The best thing to do is treat all excuses the same.
i don't know if this changes your opinion or not, but the kids that missed the 5 practices are going to be allowed to play. the other, unrelated kid who missed 2 practices is going to be suspended. at least that's how i understood it.
i would hope that the coaches, kids and parents all got together in both cases and decided on what was going to be the outcome for the missed practices before hand. who knows, maybe the coach who suspended the kid for one game has a policy of # of missed practices = the # of game suspensions. maybe the coach cut the kid some slack by only suspending him for one game while missing 2 practices.
if all the parties got together and agreed on the outcome then i guess who are we to question? That's my $.02 and how i feel the situation should be handled.
I see no issue with the suspension if the rules are always applied the same way to everyone. I think it needs to be looked at from the other side. Is it worth it for the kids and their family for the kid to be suspended for 1 game of their high school career to go see a Rose Bowl for their brother. I would hope so but knowing some parents believe their kids are the next MJ, nothing surprises me.
You really hammer my point home here. I know why coaches have these rules and they are pretty much for the circumstances you laid out. My wife coaches and we friends with a lot of the local coaches. Your sister will play in more 6th grade volleyball tournaments. She will probably have another one next weekend. If you really want to go to one I'm sure we can move practice around so you can go to one. In high school I had a friend play xbox until 4am everyday of Christmas break and he was a pile of crap at practice so the coach sat him.
Another poster pointed out missing practice for a funeral. That should be excused. Taking a family cruise over Christmas and you miss practice? You can go on a cruise another time.
Your brother won't play in another Rose Bowl next week. You didn't plan the Rose Bowl during your basketball season. If the kid is a starter, start someone else and have him be first off the bench. If the kid is a role player, limit his role for a game. I think missing an entire game is a little harsh. If the coach stuck to his guns and sat him for a game, I wouldn't agree with it but I don't think I would get really upset either. Just my .02.
No, it doesn't change my opinion...time was missed whether it was 2 or 5 practices and there have to be consequences. As I stated previously, having to sit out the first QTR or half seems more just, but at the same time can't argue with the coach that elected to sit them for one game. That to me is more reasonable than no punishment at all. As a coach, you should treat all players equally, so you can't waive punishment for missing practice because one trip is deemed more prestigious or meaningful than another.
If they were good enough, they wouldn't get suspended. Tough guy coach trying to make a point to his sheep without actually costing himself anything.
That would be the definition of a bad coach then. The players abilities shouldn't matter...if time was missed there should be some sort of consequence, whether it was sitting out the opening tip, a full quarter or a full game.
KF suspends or punishes players regardless of their ability, look no further than Desmond King in the B1G championship...he was late to or missed a meeting so he didn't start. Any coach worth a dime would have consistent rules regardless of the players abilities, especially at the HS level where you are trying to teach kids life lessons. I get that perhaps there are different rules for different players at the professional level as it relates to punishment, but for high school kids, winning isn't the most important thing, setting the right example and being consistent is. Has nothing to do with being a 'tough guy coach' as you suggest.
Would you as an administrator or athletic director suspend a coach that would go to the Rose Bowl to watch his brother or son play? We have to be fair? I know of two hs basketball coaches attended because their son and brother was playing in the game. From an adult perspective it's easy to say the dad or brother has to go and let the assistants take over the practices, but when it's a player it's easy to say they should stay home and be committed to their team.
Who cares, its high school? My family went skiing in Colorado over Christmas every year missing a week of practices. I had to sit when I got back. The skiing actually helped my vertical and overall leg strength. By playoff time I was stronger than had I stayed home. My playing increased every week. Family means more than anything you'll ever do in high school.
A
anon_i8nzeu2gbf0ba
Guest
There is nothing so unfair as treating unequals equally. Some reasons for missing practice are acceptable, some are not. I've coached in high school and college for over 20 years and played two D-1 sports. IMHO, it is ludicrous to punish an athlete for missing practice to attend the Rose Bowl to see his brother play. It's the freaking Rose Bowl, and Iowa hadn't been there in 25 years.
It's easy to hide behind rules. It takes a little guts and more than a little common sense to deal with each specific case on its own merits.
It's easy to hide behind rules. It takes a little guts and more than a little common sense to deal with each specific case on its own merits.
I'm assuming you thought it was dumb for Ferentz to sit King for the 1st quarter after he missed a team practice then.
I think you're just asking for more problems if you change the rules for certain people. Just opening a can of worms with other parents.
I like your response. That is how I view the situation as well. Sledding with friends, a root canal, a funeral, a 6th grade aau tourney, a rose bowl, family Thanksgiving, or over sleeping should all be handled differently. It just surprised me his family missed all the family events at the Rose Bowl because his kids couldn't miss practice and other coaches were encouraging their athletes/families to attend their brother's games because it is such a rare event.
The bolded and underlined part of your post surprises me more than anything. Their kids could have missed practice, they weren't forced to stay home and miss all the team/family events in Pasadena... it was their decision, there simply would have been consequences if they elected to miss school/practice. If the Rose Bowl was so important to the family(it would have been for me if I had a son playing), they should have pulled their kid from high school practice and lived with the consequences. I don't have children, but that is probably what I would have done. A single high school game isn't the end of the world, in fact it's rather meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
Did these kids just not show up to practice for those 5 days and leave the coach with no idea where they were? If not, apples/oranges.
They weren't "suspended" for getting caught at a kegger, and no one is suggesting they should get special treatment if they did. These kids were able to have a once in a lifetime experience with their family and missed a couple of practices while school wasn't even in session. If you think the definition of a good coach/parent is that they apply the same rules, no matter how rigid, to every kid in every situation without any room for flexibility or whether the "punishment" makes sense, then I guess we just have to agree to disagree.
I think you have it backwards. I'd argue it takes guts to apply rules consistently, most especially when it involves the most talented players. You are essentially saying you treat players differently and hold them to a different set of rules based on their abilities, that just seems like a bad policy to me.
So if you are in the position of the coach...player A gets a free pass to take a trip out to Pasadena, why shouldn't the rest of the team just get the time off too so they can do what they deem to be most important? Who cares if its the Rose Bowl? You might care but others may consider it irrelevant, especially if they don't have family participating in it. As a coach of high school or college athletes, I would hope you have clearly defined rules that apply to everyone, and if you ELECT to miss practice, meetings, whatever, the same consequences would apply to player A riding the pine as it would the star PG that has a D1 scholarship waiting for them. Certainly attending a funeral or sitting bedside at the hospital are different so shouldn't be compared to missing practice to take a family vacation.
my .02
I'm sure they let the coach know ahead of time just as I'm sure the coach informed them that they would miss some playing time due to missing practice. Makes sense to me. I'm not saying that they should have to sit out the entire game but they should miss some playing time. The kids who put in the time and effort deserve to play, that's their reward.
What about a kid of divorced parents,whose one parent insists on having in the custody settlement that the kid has to visit over the holidays? What does a coach do then?
And, I thought (and maybe this has changed) the the Iowa Boys Athletic Assn allows no games over the holidays so the kids have "family time." What good is this rule if the coaches schedule practice time?
I would say not playing the first half as a reasonable suspension. What happens if the coach misses a practice due to another conflict, do they get suspended?? Just saying, you have to treat the players and the coaches the same.
I remember we had a coach in high school who was also our principal. Worst situation ever, he was always showing up late to practice or missing due to meetings. Our assistant coach was a parent of one of the players. Basically he was coaching the team and the principal was along for the ride. It was a joke of a situation. We sucked, but mainly because this parent wanted his son to touch the ball every time down the floor.
I remember we had a coach in high school who was also our principal. Worst situation ever, he was always showing up late to practice or missing due to meetings. Our assistant coach was a parent of one of the players. Basically he was coaching the team and the principal was along for the ride. It was a joke of a situation. We sucked, but mainly because this parent wanted his son to touch the ball every time down the floor.
This sounds like the federal government at work. We as a society, for various reasons including political correctness and perceived fairness create these one size fits all solutions in an effort to take accountability away from leaders. A leader worth their salt should be able to differentiate between a good excuse and a bad one. We do that in the working world. If I come late for work because I hit a deer it's not the same as coming late to work because I'm recovering from a hangover.
Not all excuses are equal and neither should leadership decisions. The best thing to do in these situations is to talk these situations out ahead of time and negotiate reasonable conclusions or at least clearly lay out the choices and consequences.
Yet you get docked that amount of time regardless of what happened or you use personal/vacation time.
Depends on where you work, salaried vs hourly, etc. The point is if you show up late for work because you're hung over, you are probably going to receive more disciplinary action than lost PTO.
Sounds ridiculous to me. No school in session should mean no practice. It's freaking high school basketball, not a job. You can talk about life lessons, applying to work, etc. but doesn't make sense to me. BTW, I am the guy who showed up to wrestling practice two hours after having my wisdom teeth pulled so I don't want criticism about commitment or responsibility.
So you have given over your authority as the coach to the team parents? I'm the Coach, my team, my rules. If I say the absence is reasonable and excused then that is the way it is. If you, the parents, don't like it then tough, find yourself a new coach next season. Until that time comes, this is my team and my responsibility, I'll run it as I see fit.
I agree with the previous poster that common sense has to be used in these situations and there is a difference between an excused absence and an unexcused absence.
Truth be told, if players are missing almost a week of practice I am probably holding them out or cutting their minutes anyways because they will probably be a bit out of flow and will need some time to knock the rust off from having so much time off.
That is a tough one, on one hand I get that it is a big deal to go to the game and they should go to the game. However, what about the other 10 or so kids that were at practice. I think a game suspension is justifiable especially if practices were missed leading up to a game. You also have to factor in that the players would not be in shape and could have an increased risk for injury. As a coach I would not allow the kids to participate in the following game or even games until they get back into playing shape and are at enough practices to warrant playing time. Its a tough break I know, but when you begin making exceptions as a coach it becomes very difficult.
Apparently coaching is not an easy job with all the varying opinions on what should be done in this one situation.
i understand the idea of not taking circumstances into consideration when something out of the ordinary happens. It makes the consequences a lot easier to dish out.
I am more annoyed at the way society has turned out to have to resort to that. Unfortunately, the kid who missed practices because he wanted to stay home and play Call of Duty all week typically would throw a stink if the kid who missed a week of practice attending the Rose Bowl would be allowed to play.
I deal with it at work. Had a situation come up recently where I had to jump through some extra hoops to get something approved and the manager pretty much said that it was stupid, but If he didn't have me jump through those hoops then other people would b*tch and moan about it.
I am more annoyed at the way society has turned out to have to resort to that. Unfortunately, the kid who missed practices because he wanted to stay home and play Call of Duty all week typically would throw a stink if the kid who missed a week of practice attending the Rose Bowl would be allowed to play.
I deal with it at work. Had a situation come up recently where I had to jump through some extra hoops to get something approved and the manager pretty much said that it was stupid, but If he didn't have me jump through those hoops then other people would b*tch and moan about it.
Having coached for nearly 30 years I was being a bit sarcastic Scherrman. But for the most part I agree with your thoughts.
I rarely felt stressed, but it is time consuming and very low pay for the hours spent.
Fortunately I can count on one hand using only fingers the times I had an actual attitude issue. And a couple of those were my fault as a young coach.
I rarely felt stressed, but it is time consuming and very low pay for the hours spent.
Fortunately I can count on one hand using only fingers the times I had an actual attitude issue. And a couple of those were my fault as a young coach.
Valid point but that is a little different. Baseball is known to occur when school is out of session. I think the holidays are a bit different since it is generally considered a religious and family time. I also think America's passion about the importance of high school sports is overblown. It is important to health, creates character/work ethic, promotes team building, etc but it is still just high school sports.
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