Martinez-Freestyle Champ
Nick Moore-Freestyle Champ
Gadson-Cadet National Champ
Jacob Ballweg-Junior National Champ
Team Iowa Junior National Dual team
- Thread starter HawkTalk3
- Start date
Nick Moore-Freestyle Champ
Gadson-Cadet National Champ
Jacob Ballweg-Junior National Champ
Okay - in this freestyle vs. folkstyle argument we are using examples that cross at least 3 permutations of freestyle rules, so the assertions lose some validity. I truly enjoy the current version of freestyle, but agree that it is a different "animal" (if not sport) than folkstyle. In any case - a takedown is a takedown, so I do give some credence to freestyle performance when trying to predict potential intercollegiate success.
Yes, a sequence of leg laces or guts that lead to a quick TF can be misleading when considering the loser, but can it also be an indication of a kid who is not working very hard on getting out from the bottom in folkstyle? On the flip side, is the winner showing a desire to score that is currently missing from folkstyle. I watched the Lewis/Delagatta Midlands finals today and more points were scored in that match than will ever be scored in all of the Tsirtsis vs. Sorensen matches will ever cumulatively attain - maybe 4 times as many points - and Lewis got called for stalling twice and gave up a point. Anything that encourages today's wrestlers to score, regardless of style, can only be good.
Yes, a sequence of leg laces or guts that lead to a quick TF can be misleading when considering the loser, but can it also be an indication of a kid who is not working very hard on getting out from the bottom in folkstyle? On the flip side, is the winner showing a desire to score that is currently missing from folkstyle. I watched the Lewis/Delagatta Midlands finals today and more points were scored in that match than will ever be scored in all of the Tsirtsis vs. Sorensen matches will ever cumulatively attain - maybe 4 times as many points - and Lewis got called for stalling twice and gave up a point. Anything that encourages today's wrestlers to score, regardless of style, can only be good.
Nick Moore-183-1 and four time state champ Folkstyle
Jacob Ballweg-179-6 and a three time Folkstyle State Champ
Your point? Justin Meija had very little experience in freestyle (hadn't wrestled it since age 9) and wrestled Austin Gomez who does it every year and was a world team member. Still, Justin was good enough to hang with him with the score only being 8-6 at the break. If your theory (it being a different sport and all) is correct, Gomez should have TF'd Justin with ease. Also, Alex Marinelli beat Josh Shields in freestyle...I don't know if Alex had ever wrestled a freestyle match before. Shields finished 3rd at Fargo...he beat Joe Smith. If we were talking Greco, I'd agree with you. But talent is talent
Let me clarify: freestyle and folkstyle are nothing alike when the guy you want to win doesn't.
False. Forrest had to work his tail off in order to become world class. He had some early struggles but persevered. Oddly enough, I hear he was also a hell of a wrestler. More ammo for sloe?
Yep, talent is talent, and as previously stated the very best win in every style, and they'll win the styles yet to be invented. But each style will be different, by design, and some vastly, that is assured. And some who are not the very best, will even be far better at one style than another, happens to plenty of people. Here's just a couple:
Jake Kerr - University of Iowa
went 14-7 at 165 pounds while competing unattached
represented the United States at the FILA Junior World Championships in Beijing, China
season record was 6-12 at 165 pounds
placed third at 74 kg challenge tournament for FILA University Freestyle World Team trials... placed third at 163 pounds at Northern Plains trials.
went 14-6 at 165 and 174 pounds
placed sixth at 74 kg at ASICS men's freestyle University National Championships
posted a 14-11 record at 157 pounds
placed sixth at 74 kg/163 pounds at ASICS men's freestyle University National Championships
Jamill Kelly - Oklahoma State University.
NCAA Folkstyle All-American Finishes = 0
Freestyle Olympic Silver Medals - 1
Not even close. I want every Hawkeye past, present and future to win every match they're in, no matter the style. Why? Because they're Hawkeyes.
But before and during their Hawkeye careers, I don't go "oh no" when they get throttled in Freestyle or Greco, or "yippee" when they win in Freestyle or Greco, because I know it doesn't matter.
I care what they do as Folkstyler's for the University of Iowa. Everything else that happens in those other Styles is icing on the cake or cauliflower (no pun intended) depending on the result, and those points don't transfer to the NCAA Tournament so.......................meh.
Exactly. About as revelant as the Ironman, Cheesehead, Doc B or State Tournaments.
There are always exceptions to any generalization. The fact that you can list a few doesn't prove that there is no correlation between success in FS vs folkstyle.
One can just as easily list guys that were very successful at FS in HS (Fargo), who went on to great success in college, e.g. Metcalf, Taylor and Nickerson.
All things considered, I would bet that the odds of collegiate success are much better in a kid that was a 2x Fargo Jr FS champ than in someone who went 0-2 for two straight years.
One can just as easily list guys that were very successful at FS in HS (Fargo), who went on to great success in college, e.g. Metcalf, Taylor and Nickerson.
All things considered, I would bet that the odds of collegiate success are much better in a kid that was a 2x Fargo Jr FS champ than in someone who went 0-2 for two straight years.
If we are evaluating a wrestlers abilities and wondering how a wrestler will fare in college and are watching him wrestle in freestyle there are plenty of factors that can aid in that evaluation.
If your guy gets murdered, its important to see how he lost. If he loses on head pinches, exposure during scrambles and push outs, then sloe is right, who cares. But if he gets taken down over and over again, its hard to say the result is meaningless.
Example: Carter Happel just wrestled Matt Kolodzik from NJ (Blair Academy). Carter gave up four take downs and got turned once, losing 10-0 technical fall. If the two wrestled a folk style match the result would be similar. Kolodzik is just better. Happel is a guy who most of us would like to see in a Hawkeye singlet. Everyone on this board (including you Sloe) would be impressed if Happel got a win over Kolodzik (free or folk). BTW most of our future hawks got torn apart by New Jersey.
If your guy gets murdered, its important to see how he lost. If he loses on head pinches, exposure during scrambles and push outs, then sloe is right, who cares. But if he gets taken down over and over again, its hard to say the result is meaningless.
Example: Carter Happel just wrestled Matt Kolodzik from NJ (Blair Academy). Carter gave up four take downs and got turned once, losing 10-0 technical fall. If the two wrestled a folk style match the result would be similar. Kolodzik is just better. Happel is a guy who most of us would like to see in a Hawkeye singlet. Everyone on this board (including you Sloe) would be impressed if Happel got a win over Kolodzik (free or folk). BTW most of our future hawks got torn apart by New Jersey.
Speaking of Happel, any thoughts re how he and Turk will match up? I'm assuming they've never wrestled since Turk has been at 145. Anyone know if 141 is still Turk's plan at Iowa? As both are solid recruits but not "top-3" does anyone see Yates going 133 as a RSF when Clark graduates, then going up to 141 for his final 3 years? That would make sense with Mejia and Renteria coming in a year later (without even factoring Lee or Suriano into the mix), but don't know if Yates will get that big. Glad I get to recruit from the comfort of my computer and not in real life.
