ADVERTISEMENT

The attitude we so badly want to see at Iowa

I wonder how a conversation would go down w Coach Garrido. Coach we are looking for a fun and not win at all cost environment for our son. He is an elite athlete and would thrive in that kind of place. I am wondering if your University can provide that in 2017.

Not for the faint of heart....

 
  • Like
Reactions: championhawk
Well....that was a pretty disgusting display - not what I would call a role model or mentor!
 
No but just saying that there are many styles that drive results. It may be win at all cost or happy low stress everyone gets a trophy. The answer is probably somewhere in the middle.
But Like it or not many styles exist today in wrestling, baseball or any sports. Usually whoever is winning at the time will take the high ground and claim that their style is the best. It was interesting that he is a current NCAA coach w great results.
 
As much as I hate the FUN propaganda that Cael drills into his kids, it is somewhat on par with what Gable did with his guys back in the day. Gable just did it with the message that "You guys work harder than everyone else in the country"

While I hardly believe that Cael's kids are having any more fun than any other college age wrestlers, I am sure his guys think they are and maybe just maybe it allows them to loosen up and not put so much pressure on themselves. It is also a lot easier culture to sell to the current trophies for everyone society as a whole. Especially to super talented kids that frankly just have to keep things moving in the right direction and not burn out.

Now I do think for the most part Gable's teams did work harder than most teams, especially early in his career, but I am sure there were individuals that worked just as hard or harder as their Iowa counterparts. But that didn't matter because he got his guys to believe they were working harder than everyone and that was a huge mental edge to have going into a wrestling match.

I also think that these 2 "cultures" fit their recruiting philosophies.

Cael is going after the best of the best. The biggest thing you have to worry about with these guys is them burning out. This was and is a huge problem with the uber talented and up until recently it wasn't a great idea to just go after a bunch of top kids for this reason. But it does seem nowadays that if you can just keep these guys moving forward and enjoying wrestling you are going to have some great wrestlers.

Gable was not too worried about recruiting the best of the best high school talent. He wanted guys that were talented enough and would buy into the hard work mentality.

Both coaches attract(ed) guys that fit more of the other style just because they are/were winning and that has and always will attach talent and hard workers and talented hard workers.

So basically Cael's FUN propaganda seems to be working.

Something just feels really weird about it. Most of us didn't wrestle because it was the most fun sport. Football is fun. Baseball is fun. Golf is fun. Wrestling is brutally hard and that is why it is so satisfying when you become good at at.

It is so blatantly obvious why Cael is pumping out this message that it feels contrived. While Gable's message seemed more authentic, since it was coming from a guy that arguably worked harder than anyone in any sport to accomplish his goals. I never looked at Cael as a guy that had the most fun while he was a competitor. Than again maybe that is why he preaches the message he does because he wishes he had more fun while competing.
 
Last edited:
I wonder how a conversation would go down w Coach Garrido. Coach we are looking for a fun and not win at all cost environment for our son. He is an elite athlete and would thrive in that kind of place. I am wondering if your University can provide that in 2017.

Not for the faint of heart....


That was after a 2-4 game. I'd hate to see him after a 0-9 game.
 
As much as I hate the FUN propaganda that Cael drills into his kids, it is somewhat on par with what Gable did with his guys back in the day. Gable just did it with the message that "You guys work harder than everyone else in the country"

While I hardly believe that Cael's kids are having any more fun than any other college age wrestlers, I am sure his guys think they are and maybe just maybe it allows them to loosen up and not put so much pressure on themselves. It is also a lot easier culture to sell to the current trophies for everyone society as a whole. Especially to super talented kids that frankly just have to keep things moving in the right direction and not burn out.

Now I do think for the most part Gable's teams did work harder than most teams, especially early in his career, but I am sure there were individuals that worked just as hard or harder as their Iowa counterparts. But that didn't matter because he got his guys to believe they were working harder than everyone and that was a huge mental edge to have going into a wrestling match.

I also think that these 2 "cultures" fit their recruiting philosophies.

Cael is going after the best of the best. The biggest thing you have to worry about with these guys is them burning out. This was and is a huge problem with the uber talented and up until recently it wasn't a great idea to just go after a bunch of top kids for this reason. But it does seem nowadays that if you can just keep these guys moving forward and enjoying wrestling you are going to have some great wrestlers.

Gable was not too worried about recruiting the best of the best high school talent. He wanted guys that were talented enough and would buy into the hard work mentality.

Both coaches attract(ed) guys that fit more of the other style just because they are/were winning and that has and always will attach talent and hard workers and talented hard workers.

So basically Cael's FUN propaganda seems to be working.

Something just feels really weird about it. Most of us didn't wrestle because it was the most fun sport. Football is fun. Baseball is fun. Golf is fun. Wrestling is brutally hard and that is why it is so satisfying when you become good at at.

It is so blatantly obvious why Cael's is pumping out this message that it feels contrived. While Gable's message seemed a lot more authentic coming from a guy that worked harder than anyone in any sport to accomplish his goals. I never looked at Cael as a guy that had the most fun while he was a competitor. Than again maybe that is why he preaches the message he does because he wishes he had more fun while competing.

I take issue with your comment "golf is fun".
 
  • Like
Reactions: dunkej01 and pablow
Wrestling is inherently fun. Really fun. Little kids spontaneously wrestle for pure enjoyment, and that's not something you necessarily lose as you get older, particularly if you keep doing it.

At a certain point, people tend to get more competitive about it. If you decide you really like it, you'll probably get a desire to become good at it. So you start working at it. This process, which isn't specific to wrestling, is part of what we call "growing up".

There's a tendency to see the benefits of hard work, and think that if you could weed out everything else, and just work hard all the time, you'd be the best at whatever you're doing. I think that tends to be a mistake on a couple of accounts.

First, we're human (which is what makes this interesting). Humans tend not to function well when you take all the pleasure out of things. You have to find a balance that works for you.

Second, there are things we learn through play that we tend not to learn when we work. We're more open to experimentation when we play, and we usually have more time to consider the results.

When I started coaching, I stopped riding legs. I was working with high school kids, and throwing legs in was boring and unproductive; it'd take a couple of seconds to squash them flat, and then there was no wrestling going on... just me looking for a turn. So I started doing other stuff... some of it semi-random. If the kid scored, good! That's who you're trying to make better, after all.

In the first few years, I learned things I hadn't picked up in 20 years as an active wrestler; I'm far better than I was in college. And as a bonus, that sort of messing around isn't hard on your body. When you're training seriously, it helps to have ways to make progress which don't take a toll on you, because a lot of the other things you're doing will.

The atmosphere off the mat matters, too. We played a few paintball games when I was as Iowa, for instance (the most memorable part of which was watching McIlravy perform crazy movie stunts, like jumping off of high things and shooting at people while falling upside-down). I never went into for the high-stakes rock-paper-scissors tournaments, which featured video review, but they were popular. And then you had the alligator wrestling road trips, questionable home improvement chainsaw techniques, and hunting (usually in appropriate places[/i]).

Just so you know that wrestling under Gable wasn't chewing on rocks every day. It wasn't a barrel of monkeys, but people liked being there, and were into what they were doing.

I expect Cael is striking a balance which works. It can't be all fun, and I don't think he'd claim that it was. But fun has a place in wrestling, and a positive attitude about hard work rounds it out.
 
^^ The best, well thought out, and articulate post that I have seen in a long time. I think you hit the nail on the head as the old saying goes.
 
Something just feels really weird about it. Most of us didn't wrestle because it was the most fun sport. Football is fun. Baseball is fun. Golf is fun. Wrestling is brutally hard and that is why it is so satisfying when you become good at at.

It is so blatantly obvious why Cael's is pumping out this message that it feels contrived. While Gable's message seemed a lot more authentic coming from a guy that worked harder than anyone in any sport to accomplish his goals. I never looked at Cael as a guy that had the most fun while he was a competitor. Than again maybe that is why he preaches the message he does because he wishes he had more fun while competing.[/QUOTE]

"Golf is fun
Wrestling is inherently fun. Really fun. Little kids spontaneously wrestle for pure enjoyment, and that's not something you necessarily lose as you get older, particularly if you keep doing it.

At a certain point, people tend to get more competitive about it. If you decide you really like it, you'll probably get a desire to become good at it. So you start working at it. This process, which isn't specific to wrestling, is part of what we call "growing up".

There's a tendency to see the benefits of hard work, and think that if you could weed out everything else, and just work hard all the time, you'd be the best at whatever you're doing. I think that tends to be a mistake on a couple of accounts.

First, we're human (which is what makes this interesting). Humans tend not to function well when you take all the pleasure out of things. You have to find a balance that works for you.

Second, there are things we learn through play that we tend not to learn when we work. We're more open to experimentation when we play, and we usually have more time to consider the results.

When I started coaching, I stopped riding legs. I was working with high school kids, and throwing legs in was boring and unproductive; it'd take a couple of seconds to squash them flat, and then there was no wrestling going on... just me looking for a turn. So I started doing other stuff... some of it semi-random. If the kid scored, good! That's who you're trying to make better, after all.

In the first few years, I learned things I hadn't picked up in 20 years as an active wrestler; I'm far better than I was in college. And as a bonus, that sort of messing around isn't hard on your body. When you're training seriously, it helps to have ways to make progress which don't take a toll on you, because a lot of the other things you're doing will.

The atmosphere off the mat matters, too. We played a few paintball games when I was as Iowa, for instance (the most memorable part of which was watching McIlravy perform crazy movie stunts, like jumping off of high things and shooting at people while falling upside-down). I never went into for the high-stakes rock-paper-scissors tournaments, which featured video review, but they were popular. And then you had the alligator wrestling road trips, questionable home improvement chainsaw techniques, and hunting (usually in appropriate places[/i]).

Just so you know that wrestling under Gable wasn't chewing on rocks every day. It wasn't a barrel of monkeys, but people liked being there, and were into what they were doing.

I expect Cael is striking a balance which works. It can't be all fun, and I don't think he'd claim that it was. But fun has a place in wrestling, and a positive attitude about hard work rounds it out.

Good post. One of my favorite quotes - “Happy people don’t need to have fun” – Jean Stafford
 
As much as I hate the FUN propaganda that Cael drills into his kids, it is somewhat on par with what Gable did with his guys back in the day. Gable just did it with the message that "You guys work harder than everyone else in the country"

While I hardly believe that Cael's kids are having any more fun than any other college age wrestlers, I am sure his guys think they are and maybe just maybe it allows them to loosen up and not put so much pressure on themselves. It is also a lot easier culture to sell to the current trophies for everyone society as a whole. Especially to super talented kids that frankly just have to keep things moving in the right direction and not burn out.

Now I do think for the most part Gable's teams did work harder than most teams, especially early in his career, but I am sure there were individuals that worked just as hard or harder as their Iowa counterparts. But that didn't matter because he got his guys to believe they were working harder than everyone and that was a huge mental edge to have going into a wrestling match.

I also think that these 2 "cultures" fit their recruiting philosophies.

Cael is going after the best of the best. The biggest thing you have to worry about with these guys is them burning out. This was and is a huge problem with the uber talented and up until recently it wasn't a great idea to just go after a bunch of top kids for this reason. But it does seem nowadays that if you can just keep these guys moving forward and enjoying wrestling you are going to have some great wrestlers.

Gable was not too worried about recruiting the best of the best high school talent. He wanted guys that were talented enough and would buy into the hard work mentality.

Both coaches attract(ed) guys that fit more of the other style just because they are/were winning and that has and always will attach talent and hard workers and talented hard workers.

So basically Cael's FUN propaganda seems to be working.

Something just feels really weird about it. Most of us didn't wrestle because it was the most fun sport. Football is fun. Baseball is fun. Golf is fun. Wrestling is brutally hard and that is why it is so satisfying when you become good at at.

It is so blatantly obvious why Cael is pumping out this message that it feels contrived. While Gable's message seemed more authentic, since it was coming from a guy that arguably worked harder than anyone in any sport to accomplish his goals. I never looked at Cael as a guy that had the most fun while he was a competitor. Than again maybe that is why he preaches the message he does because he wishes he had more fun while competing.


Winning is fun. Winning and scoring points, are both fun.

Cael did a lot of that.
 
Wrestling is inherently fun. Really fun. Little kids spontaneously wrestle for pure enjoyment, and that's not something you necessarily lose as you get older, particularly if you keep doing it.

At a certain point, people tend to get more competitive about it. If you decide you really like it, you'll probably get a desire to become good at it. So you start working at it. This process, which isn't specific to wrestling, is part of what we call "growing up".

There's a tendency to see the benefits of hard work, and think that if you could weed out everything else, and just work hard all the time, you'd be the best at whatever you're doing. I think that tends to be a mistake on a couple of accounts.

First, we're human (which is what makes this interesting). Humans tend not to function well when you take all the pleasure out of things. You have to find a balance that works for you.

Second, there are things we learn through play that we tend not to learn when we work. We're more open to experimentation when we play, and we usually have more time to consider the results.

Great post! I like to think you can have fun working hard in wrestling.

I had to stop wrestling when I was a senior in college because of a knee injury. I was told I wouldn't be able to walk by the time I was thirty if I didn't stop. So I did.

Fast forward two years and I'm at my local YMCA working out. I see some guys that look like wrestlers walking through the gym I'm in. They go to a room off the gym, so I go to check it out. It's a wrestling room. I find out they have a loose sort of team and wrestle some matches against NYC area colleges (including Columbia) and the less serious NYAC guys. My knee has been feeling pretty good, so I decide to try wrestling there.

I never had so much fun wrestling in my life. No drilling, no cals - just grab a guy and roll around. I learned a lot of stuff I never would have thought of trying before and even made up some moves. Did we work hard? One day, I thought I was going pass out because I was wrestling hard, as was everyone else. The air was getting hazy in front of my eyes, so I took a break. After about a minute, I realized it wasn't me - there was a cloud of fog in the room caused by the efforts of the wrestlers. Did I get better? I think so. I was an average D3 wrestler before I went there. When I was done, I could hang in there pretty well with average D1 guys.

It was a good room - lots of D1 guys sprinkled in among lower-level college wrestlers. I wound up wrestling there until I was 31 and left NYC. I tried to carry that over to youth wrestling when I coached - hard work *can* be fun.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hlstone
I think males of all species are drawn towards competition. For some guys it might be more physical than other like bull riding or ninja warrior stuff. Wrestling and combat sports are without question the most primal, but some guys simply are not given the tools to compete at the highest level. Others may not have the most natural ability, but have more drive. When those guys work at it for years and finally rise to the top, there is nothing better in sports.
Fact is, winning is fun and losing sucks (especially while getting your arm twisted off). That said, I have discovered in the arena where I compete, losing has brought forth the greatest growth. Not everyone is destined to be a champion, but in the end that is not the most important thing in life. Just ask someone that is a few years removed from reaching the pinnacle in any endeavor and they will most likely tell you that it was just a chapter in their life. One day we will all be has beens, just like we started out as wannabees.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Azchief32
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT