The Case Against Notre Dame

[OnceAhawk]

They will not be a conference champion yet again; priority for the CFP should go to conference champions just like the committee has stated consistently since last year.

Some may argue that they are playing 5 ACC games; well, one, Clemson appears to be running away with the ACC; two, Notre Dame lost to Clemson; and three, Notre Dame is not a full member playing a full conference schedule and therefore will not win a conference championship.

I am sick and tired of hearing that we have 4 playoff slots for 6 possibilities (the 5 power conferences and Notre Dame). Once Notre Dame joins a conference and proves they can win a conference chapionship, then they have a right to argue that they belong in the CFP.

Thoughts? Or do we just bow down to Notre Dame and give them whatever they want?

 

[ichawk24]

They'll lose tomorrow night at Pitt and this will all go away.

 

[83Hawk]

Normal rules don't apply to them. They also get preferences/considerations/special treatment no one else gets. Because they are Notre Dame.

 

[noStemsnoSTICKS]

The fact that they're not in a conference shouldn't preclude them from the cfp. But having 1 or more losses should if there are 4 power 5 undefeated schools.

Frankly, and regardless of what committee members have said regarding conference champs, I see overall record coupled with strength of schedule as more important factors than simply winning your conference.

 

[neversurrender]

Why are we so concerned with ND? If the belief is win out and we are in why does it matter? Unless there is much more concern than what is showing about being left out.

 

[OnceAhawk]

Normal rules don't apply to them. They also get preferences/considerations/special treatment no one else gets. Because they are Notre Dame.

and look what happened when Penn State joined a conference

It should be either Clemson or Notre Dame; the ACC can decide on which team is their champion. There should not be 5 power conference champions AND Notre Dame. Notre Dame is not its own separate "power conference."

Sorry, that's how I feel. Join a conference, just like Penn State, and see how you do. And good luck with that, Notre Dame.

 

[OnceAhawk]

Why are we so concerned with ND? If the belief is win out and we are in why does it matter? Unless there is much more concern than what is showing about being left out.

Here is my concern:

1) ND wins the rest of their games
2) Big 12 Champ: Baylor or TCU wins the rest of their games
3) Big 10 Champ: Iowa wins the rest of their games
4) SEC Champ: LSU wins rest of their games
5) ACC Champ: Clemson wins rest of their games

Which of these 5 teams gets left out of the CFP? You think Iowa will get picked over ND?

 

[neversurrender]

No, I said that already last week that we could run the table and be left out and I was told how no Big 10 could ever be left because it's the big ten. If ND runs the table they could really make things a pain, especially if they have a big win over Pitt at Pitt tomorrow as the committee could point to it and say see look what they did to the same team you only beat by 3. As of right now I just want to see wins but it could get really scary if ND keeps winning and we don't start moving up even with teams in front of us losing.

 

[SotaHawk87]

Here is my concern:

1) ND wins the rest of their games
2) Big 12 Champ: Baylor or TCU wins the rest of their games
3) Big 10 Champ: Iowa wins the rest of their games
4) SEC Champ: LSU wins rest of their games
5) ACC Champ: Clemson wins rest of their games

Which of these 5 teams gets left out of the CFP? You think Iowa will get picked over ND?

I would say this is the one scenario where Iowa would be left out..

 

[IACub]

My biggest problem with Notre Dame being ranked so high is that they lost to Clemson and could conceivably have another shot at them. If you're going to say that "every week is a playoff," then this scenario cannot happen.

But they'll get beat by Pitt and/or Stanford and it won't matter.

 

[El Simbolo]

In OnceAhawk's post above I would hope the committee would view it this way...

The point of the playoff should be to crown a champion based on the widest national sampling as possible. Therefore if those five teams are deemed the most deserving 5, the fact that two of them already played should factor in - the nation would have already learned that ND is not the best team since they already lost to one of the others. In crowning a champion if we know that Clemson > ND whether the other three are > than ND doesn't matter, we just need to learn whether they are > Clemson.

Unless there is a serious chasm between (Clemson & ND) and the other teams then the above logic makes sense. This is how Florida got in the BCS over Michigan several years back, though Michigan only barely lost to the #1 team. Apparently a few years later the pollsters and computers deemed Bama and LSU were in fact vastly superior to everyone else and we had a rematch, however.

 

[El Simbolo]

Agree with Cub. Their loss to Clemson rightfully gets them credit right now, but in the end when it actually becomes about selecting 4 real playoff teams, vs just ranking teams to this point, the fact they already lost to Clemson could end up a negative for them

 

[ICWestfan]

Here is my concern:

1) ND wins the rest of their games
2) Big 12 Champ: Baylor or TCU wins the rest of their games
3) Big 10 Champ: Iowa wins the rest of their games
4) SEC Champ: LSU wins rest of their games
5) ACC Champ: Clemson wins rest of their games

Which of these 5 teams gets left out of the CFP? You think Iowa will get picked over ND?

1. Notre Dame.
2. Yes, particularly if Iowa beats fOSU. No way the committee leaves out the undefeated BIG champion so the conference can defend the title.

 

[thirdandpunting]

Isn't this a great way to strong arm ND into a conference?

 

[thewop]

They will not be a conference champion yet again; priority for the CFP should go to conference champions just like the committee has stated consistently since last year.

Some may argue that they are playing 5 ACC games; well, one, Clemson appears to be running away with the ACC; two, Notre Dame lost to Clemson; and three, Notre Dame is not a full member playing a full conference schedule and therefore will not win a conference championship.

I am sick and tired of hearing that we have 4 playoff slots for 6 possibilities (the 5 power conferences and Notre Dame). Once Notre Dame joins a conference and proves they can win a conference chapionship, then they have a right to argue that they belong in the CFP.

Thoughts? Or do we just bow down to Notre Dame and give them whatever they want?

Notre Dame moving to a conference would be equally impressive as Nebraska has been in the B1G. That said, I've never heard anyone say there were 4 playoff slots for 6 possibilities.

I might add also that Jeff Long said on Tuesday that "conference championships would factor in heavily, but we don't have any of those yet." He's right, we don't, and won't until the last week unless a B12 team clinches.

 

[thewop]

Why are we so concerned with ND? If the belief is win out and we are in why does it matter? Unless there is much more concern than what is showing about being left out.

exactly, we would jump them if we win out. Their best win would be Stanford, assuming Stanford wins out. Our best win would be Ohio State or Michigan State, we'd have a conference championship, and they'd have a loss. Way too much left to be played to worry about it though.

 

[Dauminator]

I don't like Notre Dame's preferential treatment, either, but they sure look like a quality team to me.

 

[neversurrender]

My question on the teams in once again comes back to looking at a scenario where id

Notre Dame moving to a conference would be equally impressive as Nebraska has been in the B1G. That said, I've never heard anyone say there were 4 playoff slots for 6 possibilities.

I might add also that Jeff Long said on Tuesday that "conference championships would factor in heavily, but we don't have any of those yet." He's right, we don't, and won't until the last week unless a B12 team clinches.

Depending on what conference ND joined I don't think that they'd struggle much. They have always competed well against most teams they play. I don't see them being what Debby has been in the Big 10 not saying they'd walk into a conference and run away with it but I think they'd be a bowl team most years and compete for titles in other years. Not much different than what we do in the Big10 some years are great like this year, some years are ok and we get to a bowl but we are never a doormat.

 

[OnceAhawk]

My biggest problem with Notre Dame being ranked so high is that they lost to Clemson and could conceivably have another shot at them. If you're going to say that "every week is a playoff," then this scenario cannot happen.

But they'll get beat by Pitt and/or Stanford and it won't matter.

yep, a one loss ND could very well meet undefeated Clemson in the CFP; does ND deserve that rematch?

 

[OnceAhawk]

Agree with Cub. Their loss to Clemson rightfully gets them credit right now, but in the end when it actually becomes about selecting 4 real playoff teams, vs just ranking teams to this point, the fact they already lost to Clemson could end up a negative for them

And an undefeated B1G champion should be in vs a one loss ND, imo

 

[timinatoria]

Here is my concern:

1) ND wins the rest of their games
2) Big 12 Champ: Baylor or TCU wins the rest of their games
3) Big 10 Champ: Iowa wins the rest of their games
4) SEC Champ: LSU wins rest of their games
5) ACC Champ: Clemson wins rest of their games

Which of these 5 teams gets left out of the CFP? You think Iowa will get picked over ND?

Yes, undefeated Iowa gets in over a 1 loss Notre Dame.

A win over OSU or MSU in the conference title game would be better than anything on Notre Dame's resume and we would be in.

I'll worry about it after we win that 13th game.

 

[OnceAhawk]

Isn't this a great way to strong arm ND into a conference?

ND is part of the ACC in every sense of the word except for football; well, they will not be the ACC champs (Clemson will)

Does the ACC deserve 2 teams in the CFP? Clemson and ND, which lost to Clemson?

 

[OnceAhawk]

Notre Dame moving to a conference would be equally impressive as Nebraska has been in the B1G. That said, I've never heard anyone say there were 4 playoff slots for 6 possibilities.

I might add also that Jeff Long said on Tuesday that "conference championships would factor in heavily, but we don't have any of those yet." He's right, we don't, and won't until the last week unless a B12 team clinches.

You have never heard of the expression "the power 5 conferences and Notre Dame?"

Notre Dame is treated like its own separate power conference

 

[OnceAhawk]

exactly, we would jump them if we win out. Their best win would be Stanford, assuming Stanford wins out. Our best win would be Ohio State or Michigan State, we'd have a conference championship, and they'd have a loss. Way too much left to be played to worry about it though.

You are right; lets face it the chances of us winning the next 5 game are not high

 

[OnceAhawk]

Yes, undefeated Iowa gets in over a 1 loss Notre Dame.

A win over OSU or MSU in the conference title game would be better than anything on Notre Dame's resume and we would be in.

I'll worry about it after we win that 13th game.

you make a lot of sense; winning all 13 games would be an incredible, unprecedented feat but we have to do it first and with one loss, we are out of the CFP discussion

 

[timinatoria]

you make a lot of sense; winning all 13 games would be an incredible, unprecedented feat but we have to do it first and with one loss, we are out of the CFP discussion

Yes, and then cry all the way to Pasadena.

 

[GarryO37]

I am not concerned about Notre Dame if Iowa wins out, and undefeated Power 5 champion will jump Notre Dame. My only concern will be where we are ranked in the top 4.

As Iowa keeps winning, we will be right outside the top 4 when we play in the BIG Championship game. If we win, a 13-0 power 5 team will jump an 11-1 Notre Dame.

 

[iahawkeyes17]

Sad thing with ND is their 2 best wins are over AAC teams Temple and Navy. They are getting more credit than they deserve for beating normally good teams who are having down years such as Texas, USC and Ga Tech. Barely beat UVA and other 2 wins vs Pitt and UMass. People can whine about Big 10 West but look at ND's next 2 games BC and Wake Forest who are ACC cellar dwellers who would lucky to win 2 games in Big 10. WF actually lost at home to Indiana. ND is very lucky they don't have Michigan or MSU on their schedule this year.

 

[yerpHAWK]

I actually agree with this analysis. They lost to the ACC champ already, so why should they get another shot.

 

[whatsup13579er]

I actually agree with this analysis. They lost to the ACC champ already, so why should they get another shot.

This. If it comes down to Iowa or ND for the 4th and final slot to face Clemson, ND already had their shot and lost.

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

Can't we just keep them out because they're Notre Dame?