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The EV Backlash Builds!!!

RicoSuave102954

HR All-American
Jul 17, 2023
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Montezuma, Iowa
The Biden Administration keeps throwing around billions in subsidies for electric vehicles, and the press corps keeps hailing them, but consumers don’t seem to want them. The evidence is building that this green industrial policy is a bust.

Ford Motor said on Friday that it’s slashing production of its F-150 Lightning truck amid flagging demand. The F-150 Lightning drew oohs and aahs from the press when it was unveiled in May 2021. Yet the electric pickup has been plagued with defects that have required recalls. It sold a mere 24,165 Lightnings last year and lost roughly $36,000 on each EV in the third quarter.

So now Ford is cutting production at its Lightning plant in Michigan while increasing output of its popular gas-powered Bronco SUV and Ranger pickup. “We are taking advantage of our manufacturing flexibility to offer customers choices while balancing our growth and profitability,” said CEO Jim Farley.

Or consider General Motors, which last month told its Chevrolet dealers to stop selling its electric Blazer SUV owing to software and other problems. Consumer complaints have piled up on social media about glitches including inoperable window switches and batteries that won’t charge.

A Consumer Reports survey in November found that new EVs have 79% more problems than internal-combustion cars. “This suggests that legacy auto makers need more time to work out the kinks under the hood of their EVs,” the report noted. “What matters most to consumers remains the same: finding safe, reliable cars,” Consumer Reports CEO Marta Tellado said. People want safe, reliable cars—who would have thought?

Hertz, the rental car giant, is also bowing to consumer demand by selling about a third of its global EV fleet and buying more gas-powered cars with the proceeds. Car renters have no doubt read stories about the long lines of Chicago drivers unable to charge their EVs as batteries drain power faster in freezing weather.

None of this is stopping the Biden Administration, as this week the Environmental Protection Agency sent its final rule on auto greenhouse emission standards to the White House for review. This back-door EV mandate will punish Ford and other auto makers if they respond to consumer demand by selling more gas-powered cars. It will also compel the companies to roll out EVs before technological and engineering kinks are worked out. This is a recipe for making EVs less popular, not more.

Amid the private jet-set at Davos this week, Biden climate czar John Kerry attributed consumer resistance to EVs to “disinformation.” That’s hilarious. The automobile press couldn’t be more in the tank for EVs.

We've got nothing against electric vehicles if consumers want them. But the Administration is trying to force them on the public with mandates and subsidies. This misallocation of capital harms consumers and workers. Mr. Biden’s green industrial policy isn’t failing because of bad marketing. It's failing because Americans don’t like the product.

 
Consumers want them, just not in the numbers or at the pace envisioned by the Biden administration. Demand needs to evolve naturally, and will be enhanced once there's actually infrastructure in place to support charging needs, and the current flaws are fixed or at least improved.
 
Actually his (Tesla) is probably the better ones of all the shitty EV's on the market.

Sad take that even a genius makes a shitty EV.
I have owned a Model S since 2015. It works flawlessly. Amazing car.
  • At 8 years old the battery still gives me over 250 miles on a charge.
  • My cost of ownership annually is incredibly small - I pay a small fraction of the price of gasoline and my maintenance since it’s been off warranty has consisted of one set of new tires and a set of wipers.
  • No oil to change, far fewer mechanical parts to fail
  • When I got the tires replaced they said my brakes looked almost new since I seldom need to use them.

To say these cars are shitty is laughable. Then again, you are too ignorant for it to be funny…it is instead rather sad.
 
Meanwhile...Amazon is shifting to almost 100% EV trucks.

global-bev-phev-demand.png


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I will say this about tesla's. At the intersection of warrior lane and Hickman, in Waukee, I saw a cement truck run into the back of a Tesla and went up on top of the tesla and the passenger compartment was still entirely intact. I don't know that many cars could take that hit and the kept the people inside alive. I'm not a huge EV fan, I think they have their place foe short trips, but I was impressed. If you are on Hickman, headed west, you can still see the grind marks in the pavement of the accident.
 
Of course there is resistance. Right this minute, a gas powered vehicle is "normally" more practical than an EV. They need to be made better - longer range, more dependable, price closer to a gas-powered vehicle.

We also need a better infrastructure to support them, like charging stations.

But they need to be a part of our future.

It's the same with everything in this country - too expensive, we don't need it, it's not for everyone, why should my tax dollars be spent on something I don't want. It's one of the reason why the country is stuck in the mud.

They will get better, but only with investment.
 
Once again just around town driving for a few hours. Good luck if the temp goes below 30 degrees.
Amazon has the setup. Relatively small trucks. Short mileages. Facilities for overnight charging. There's a place for EV's.

Joes Place thought he was clever by bringing up Amazon as if that means EV's should be good for everyone.
 
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I talked to two guys AT a ford dealership a couple months ago.

I asked how many Ligjtnings they sell a month. They said very few, when I said 10? They kind of shook their head and smirked. The vibe was way less than that.

They had customers trading them in already because they couldn’t make it from Cedar Rapids to Des Moines without stopping at a Ford dealer on the way to charge.

They both said flat out don’t buy one. I never heard dealership employees bad mouth a car they sell while in the dealership.

They said they are a good idea but the range is awful, much worse than advertised.
 
I drive 45 miles round trip every day for work. My wife drives just shy of 100. Electric vehicles would be perfect for us, but I’m not ready to buy. We also have a truck to pull our camper. I see no foreseeable path for us purchasing an EV for that in our lifetime.

They have their place.
 
87% of all new cars sold in Norway are EV's. Somehow they make it work in cold weather. It's not that big of a deal.

Driving in Norway is not the same as driving in the US. Also, 87% of all new cars is not the same as 87% of all cars,.. If that stat is correct, I suspect that new cars sales in Norway are somewhat down, and that a lot of Norwegians are holding onto their old internal combustion vehicles...
 
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I drive 45 miles round trip every day for work. My wife drives just shy of 100. Electric vehicles would be perfect for us, but I’m not ready to buy. We also have a truck to pull our camper. I see no foreseeable path for us purchasing an EV for that in our lifetime.

They have their place.
I agree EVs are perfect for commutes like you describe. My Tesla commute ranged from 30-100 miles daily over the years and it is absolutely perfect for that type of scenario. No issues when it is -10 nor when it is 100+ degrees.

People who buy EVs when they need to drive longer distances regularly in the cold, or need to tow heavy items a long ways are simply morons. They aren’t meant for those folks. It doesn’t mean that EVs are bad, rather they aren’t fit for all use cases.
 
Driving in Norway is not the same as driving in the US. Also, 87% of all new cars is not the same as 87% of all cars,.. If that stat is correct, I suspect that new cars sales in Norway are somewhat down, and that a lot of Norwegians are holding onto their old internal combustion vehicles...

Extremely easy data to find. They sold about 175k new vehicles in 2022 and 2021 versus 124k in 2020 and 131k in 2019.


 
I agree EVs are perfect for commutes like you describe. My Tesla commute ranged from 30-100 miles daily over the years and it is absolutely perfect for that type of scenario. No issues when it is -10 nor when it is 100+ degrees.

People who buy EVs when they need to drive longer distances regularly in the cold, or need to tow heavy items a long ways are simply morons. They aren’t meant for those folks. It doesn’t mean that EVs are bad, rather they aren’t fit for all use cases.
I'm guessing you have the ability to charge at home. That's not feasible for a lot of urban dwellers or suburban apartment dwellers.
 
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Joes Place thought he was clever by bringing up Amazon as if that means EV's should be good for everyone.

Nope. Not at all.
I've stated here many times that they aren't for some people.
Particularly those who don't own garages to store and charge them in, when they live in cold climates.
 
I'm guessing you have the ability to charge at home. That's not feasible for a lot of urban dwellers or suburban apartment dwellers.

If we built up the infrastructure for them, it would be.

You'd park your car in a marked space, scan a meter, and it'd charge for you, on the spot. Much like you wirelessly charge your smartphone.

This seems to be a concept well beyond your ability for critical thought.
 
I'm guessing you have the ability to charge at home. That's not feasible for a lot of urban dwellers or suburban apartment dwellers.
True. They should not own an EV if they don’t have a place to reliably charge.

It is not the fault of the car, it’s the fault of people who buy the wrong vehicle for their life’s circumstance. The data on EV performance in cold conditions has been available for a decade or more. Similarly I don’t own a Ford F250 because it’s impractical for my lifestyle and needs. It doesn’t mean the truck sucks, it just means it serves a specific purpose that I cannot take advantage of.

Several people in this thread don’t understand that apparently.
 
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Consumers want them, just not in the numbers or at the pace envisioned by the Biden administration. Demand needs to evolve naturally, and will be enhanced once there's actually infrastructure in place to support charging needs, and the current flaws are fixed or at least improved.
Except this is also a national security issue, something that the pro-climate change/anti-EV people always leave out of the conversation. Letting the market develop naturally would be better in a lot of ways, but we don't have time for that. The faster we remove ICE vehicles from the road, the faster we are far more insulated from events in the middle east and elsewhere. Saudi Arabia can go stick it. It's in our country's best interest to make that happen as quickly as possible.
 
True. They should not own an EV if they don’t have a place to reliably charge.

It is not the fault of the car, it’s the fault of people who buy the wrong vehicle for their life’s circumstance. The data on EV performance in cold conditions has been available for a decade or more. Similarly I don’t own a Ford F250 because it’s impractical for my lifestyle and needs. It doesn’t mean the truck sucks, it just means it serves a specific purpose that I cannot take advantage of.

Several people in this thread don’t understand that apparently.

U should go buy a semi-trailer and use it for Uber-Eats deliveries.

Then you can come back and explain to @Finance85 how semi-trailers are completely useless vehicles, for anyone to drive, for anything at all... 😉
 
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Except this is also a national security issue, something that the pro-climate change/anti-EV people always leave out of the conversation. Letting the market develop naturally would be better in a lot of ways, but we don't have time for that. The faster we remove ICE vehicles from the road, the faster we are far more insulated from events in the middle east and elsewhere. Saudi Arabia can go stick it. It's in our country's best interest to make that happen as quickly as possible.
We have the ability to be the biggest producer of oil in the world. We have enough to last 400 years if we would only drill.
 
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I will keep my gas guzzling pickup thank you! Instead of looking for a place to charge, I just go around the block and another Caseys or Kwik Star is there!
 
We have the ability to be the biggest producer of oil in the world. We have enough to last 400 years if we would only drill.
So? It's still the number 1 environmental issue and I realize you don't give two flying f**ks about anyone but yourself, but most of us actually want to leave a livable planet for our kids. It's what responsible adults do.
 
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We have the ability to be the biggest producer of oil in the world.
No.

We don't.

Saudi Arabia and the ME countries have far more extractable, proven, reserves.
And they can drill it at a fraction of the cost we can, so they can drop prices to put our companies out of business, if they want to.
 
So? It's still the number 1 environmental issue and I realize you don't give two flying f**ks about anyone but yourself, but most of us actually want to leave a livable planet for our kids. It's what responsible adults do.
We have threads constantly about boats and traveling all over the world for fun. Do you also call these people out?
 
We have threads constantly about boats and traveling all over the world for fun. Do you also call these people out?
Since when have I ever made the argument that you must live like it's pre-industrial revolution? This is why debating with pro-climate change people is stupid. They are incapable of having a reasonable discussion about it. Nobody of importance is saying to give up modern living. We are saying there are ways to do modern living cleaner than what we are doing now. One way is to use electric vehicles, which is replaces the single largest carbon emitter on the planet.
 
Huge backlash. Yuge!

#1 sold automobile in Europe. EV or ICE.


#1 sold automobile in China. EV or ICE


Only the best backlashes, maybe ever, maybe of all time.
 
Except this is also a national security issue, something that the pro-climate change/anti-EV people always leave out of the conversation. Letting the market develop naturally would be better in a lot of ways, but we don't have time for that. The faster we remove ICE vehicles from the road, the faster we are far more insulated from events in the middle east and elsewhere. Saudi Arabia can go stick it. It's in our country's best interest to make that happen as quickly as possible.
I understand perfectly. Take away energy independence so you can push an EV agenda as the only solution.

As always, you twist what I say because it's easier than facing the truth. I'm not anti EV. I'm anti government trying to force EV's on everyone.
 
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