ADVERTISEMENT

The NATO agreement vs Russia

ihhawk

HB Legend
Feb 4, 2004
25,666
23,991
113
Fort Lauderdale
The outgoing joint chief of staff says that Russia is the main threat to the USA. The fox panel discussed this last night.

One of the people said that Putin is going to try to destroy NATO and it is already working in some ways. Per the NATO agreement, if any of the members are attacked, the other members must defend that country. We have seen Putin take over parts of Ukraine already and many people it was a test to see how the world would react. Ukraine was not a NATO member however.

So, in 2016, if Russian troops move into Poland like they did in Ukraine, how does the world react? Will NATO countries send troops or will they sit back?
 
The outgoing joint chief of staff says that Russia is the main threat to the USA. The fox panel discussed this last night.

One of the people said that Putin is going to try to destroy NATO and it is already working in some ways. Per the NATO agreement, if any of the members are attacked, the other members must defend that country. We have seen Putin take over parts of Ukraine already and many people it was a test to see how the world would react. Ukraine was not a NATO member however.

So, in 2016, if Russian troops move into Poland like they did in Ukraine, how does the world react? Will NATO countries send troops or will they sit back?
If NATO does not respond, the alliance is over with. Romney said Russia was our biggest adversary, BHO laughed that off and said that showed Romney was unqualified to be POTUS. After all he had given up the defensive middles with nothing in return had done the reset and every thing was good between us. Now he signs an agreement with Iran who immediately defies the agreement and sends their top commander to Russia. Never fear though BHO is going to bring that to a feckless UN. And the libs on the board say this is a great agreement, fully verifiable and we need to trust this process. You could not make this into a movie. It would be too unbelievable.
 
That is the fear. What will NATO do if Russia makes a move on one of the former Soviet Republics or Eastern Block countries that is now part of NATO. He is more emboldened every time NATO does nothing. It's clear he is willing to play chicken and the current leadership in the US has clearly shown they are not willing to stop him.

Putin basically wants to reverse the results of the Cold War and he wants Russia to achieve what it feels has been it's manifest destiny for 500+ years, and that is to be the hegemonic leader of a pan-Slavic empire in Eastern Europe and Western Asia.
 
  • Like
Reactions: preshlock
It's a clear case of "Damned if you do, damned if you don't".

If Russia were to make military moves against the likes of Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Romania, Estonia, etc........If we react and push them back......it's all out war in Europe. If NATO does nothing......Russia only becomes emboldened and pushes further and things get markedly worse for Europe and the world.....which the end result is war.

So it's fight and cut them off at the pass.........or fight a much larger fight for not taking the correct action in the first place.
Knowing the mindset of Europe...they'll do the latter.
 
I would suspect if push comes to shove that Germany will regain its balls before it would allow Russia to rape its country a second time. Same goes with the poles.


Germany wants to do away with the EU all together. They are tired of propping up the rest of the EU financially. They have made multiple remarks about leaving the Euro and returning the Deutch Mark.
 
Hillary would love nothing more than to be a wartime President. This is her script.
 
The outgoing joint chief of staff says that Russia is the main threat to the USA. The fox panel discussed this last night.

One of the people said that Putin is going to try to destroy NATO and it is already working in some ways. Per the NATO agreement, if any of the members are attacked, the other members must defend that country. We have seen Putin take over parts of Ukraine already and many people it was a test to see how the world would react. Ukraine was not a NATO member however.

So, in 2016, if Russian troops move into Poland like they did in Ukraine, how does the world react? Will NATO countries send troops or will they sit back?
Where is the laugh emoticon? Don't you mean the USA is the main threat to Russia? Think for a minute. Where are these Russians that are surrounding America? When the Berlin Wall came down, The Warsaw Pact dissolved and James Baker promised that NATO would not expand eastward. Clinton did exactly that. Those former WP nations are now members of NATO and the U.S. is at their doorstep with missiles pointing at Putin and you have the temerity to peddle these lies?
 
Where is the laugh emoticon? Don't you mean the USA is the main threat to Russia? Think for a minute. Where are these Russians that are surrounding America? When the Berlin Wall came down, The Warsaw Pact dissolved and James Baker promised that NATO would not expand eastward. Clinton did exactly that. Those former WP nations are now members of NATO and the U.S. is at their doorstep with missiles pointing at Putin and you have the temerity to peddle these lies?
Americans are such good little lemmings. It's always Russia's fault. If not for Russian "aggression" and "violations of international agreements," the little coup we engineered would have taken over 100% of Ukraine instead of only 80% or so. Damn Ruskies. We should nuke them.

Russia is very weak. If Putin could be doing more, he would be. Unlike most Americans, he's under no delusions about what's going on. And now that we've made our intentions clear, we will have to watch out for retaliation. They may be weak, but they aren't dead.
 
If Russia moves into a NATO country it will be Estonia. The Russian army could occupy them in a day. Estonia has weak ties to the west both currently and historically. Poland at least has an army that could hold out for a few weeks and is much closely integrated with the west, particularly Germany.

A major mistake on our part was expanding NATO beyond former countries of the Warsaw Pact.
 
Where is the laugh emoticon? Don't you mean the USA is the main threat to Russia? Think for a minute. Where are these Russians that are surrounding America? When the Berlin Wall came down, The Warsaw Pact dissolved and James Baker promised that NATO would not expand eastward. Clinton did exactly that. Those former WP nations are now members of NATO and the U.S. is at their doorstep with missiles pointing at Putin and you have the temerity to peddle these lies?
So the out going Chief of Staff is wrong about Russia being a threat?
 
Interesting article. Nothing new for those who have been paying attention but since I've been trying to point this stuff out for well over a year, I know that most people have not been paying attention.
So he lied to what end? Does he want a war with Russia?

The guy who had had access to all the intelligence in a region where have far better than the ME says Russia is a threat and you guys discount that but a historian writes and article and you go with it as gospel.
 
Where is the laugh emoticon? Don't you mean the USA is the main threat to Russia? Think for a minute. Where are these Russians that are surrounding America? When the Berlin Wall came down, The Warsaw Pact dissolved and James Baker promised that NATO would not expand eastward. Clinton did exactly that. Those former WP nations are now members of NATO and the U.S. is at their doorstep with missiles pointing at Putin and you have the temerity to peddle these lies?
what missiles?
 
The outgoing joint chief of staff says that Russia is the main threat to the USA. The fox panel discussed this last night.

One of the people said that Putin is going to try to destroy NATO and it is already working in some ways. Per the NATO agreement, if any of the members are attacked, the other members must defend that country. We have seen Putin take over parts of Ukraine already and many people it was a test to see how the world would react. Ukraine was not a NATO member however.

So, in 2016, if Russian troops move into Poland like they did in Ukraine, how does the world react? Will NATO countries send troops or will they sit back?
NATO is comprised of almost 70% US soldiers and 70% of the funding also comes from us. This is a matter of Russia vs. US, in this case. We can play the NATO card all we want, but this is aimed at US. I doubt the other NATO countries are going to be excited about getting into it with a country that has the type of military Russia has, especially whilst being on the same continent.
If they were to go into Poland, there would be a lot of chatter back and forth, but that is about it. The US simply cannot afford to handle a conflict like this right now.
 
we have played out the muslim boogeyman thing already, and are moving on to the rooskies?
We better hope not, because they are actually a very big threat to us. Sure, in all we are superior, but they have the firepower and military might to do some serious damage.
 
We better hope not, because they are actually a very big threat to us. Sure, in all we are superior, but they have the firepower and military might to do some serious damage.
All that happened it the 80s was that Russia had fewer satellites to support and used that to increase their capabilities. So I agree, Russia is, was. and will be, in the near future, our biggest threat.
 
So he lied to what end? Does he want a war with Russia?

The guy who had had access to all the intelligence in a region where have far better than the ME says Russia is a threat and you guys discount that but a historian writes and article and you go with it as gospel.
Russia is a foe with lots of nukes, a struggling economy, an aging military and other problems. The foe part and the nukes part mean we have to take Russia seriously. But raising the specter of Russia invading Poland, and some of the other crazy stuff is just that - crazy.

Could we push Russia so far into the corner that she acts crazy? Maybe. In which case calling Russia our most dangerous enemy could certainly be proven true. But why would we do that?

Unfortunately, if you have been paying attention, you'll see that, whether it makes sense to us laymen or not, we HAVE been doing that. We have been pushing Russia into a corner. Ukraine, Syria, Georgia, NATO expansion, economic sanctions. Even the low oil prices - engineered by our butt-buddy Saudi Arabia - look suspicious, since the main nations harmed are Russia, Venezuela and Iran - all US foes.
 
Russia is a foe with lots of nukes, a struggling economy, an aging military and other problems. The foe part and the nukes part mean we have to take Russia seriously. But raising the specter of Russia invading Poland, and some of the other crazy stuff is just that - crazy.

Could we push Russia so far into the corner that she acts crazy? Maybe. In which case calling Russia our most dangerous enemy could certainly be proven true. But why would we do that?

Unfortunately, if you have been paying attention, you'll see that, whether it makes sense to us laymen or not, we HAVE been doing that. We have been pushing Russia into a corner. Ukraine, Syria, Georgia, NATO expansion, economic sanctions. Even the low oil prices - engineered by our butt-buddy Saudi Arabia - look suspicious, since the main nations harmed are Russia, Venezuela and Iran - all US foes.
Did you think Russia annexing Crimea was crazy before they did it? They didn't do it to offset the US or NATO.

Given the history of Poland an invasion of that country is not something that is so far out on the fringe.

Your argument seems to be we have pushed Russia into doing what they are doing. What should are response be to any Russian aggression? Do you have a line that you think Russia could go over that would be too far?

When has NATO invaded another country that bordered Russia? They pose no threat to Russia as long as they don't take aggressive action against their neighbors. Is that not what we want - a world where all countries borders are respected.
 
Did you think Russia annexing Crimea was crazy before they did it? They didn't do it to offset the US or NATO.

Given the history of Poland an invasion of that country is not something that is so far out on the fringe.

Your argument seems to be we have pushed Russia into doing what they are doing. What should are response be to any Russian aggression? Do you have a line that you think Russia could go over that would be too far?

When has NATO invaded another country that bordered Russia? They pose no threat to Russia as long as they don't take aggressive action against their neighbors. Is that not what we want - a world where all countries borders are respected.
You seem to miss the point that we engineered a coup in Ukraine. We turned an agreed buffer state into an anti-Russia extension of western influence.

We should be grateful that we caught Russia with its military pants around its ankles. If they weren't in economic and military disarray, they could have quickly occupied half of Ukraine (or more) and that would be that. Our allies aren't going to fight in their own back yards against a nuclear Russia to take back pro-Russian parts of Ukraine - as they showed with Crimea.
 
It's a clear case of "Damned if you do, damned if you don't".

If Russia were to make military moves against the likes of Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Romania, Estonia, etc........If we react and push them back......it's all out war in Europe. If NATO does nothing......Russia only becomes emboldened and pushes further and things get markedly worse for Europe and the world.....which the end result is war.

So it's fight and cut them off at the pass.........or fight a much larger fight for not taking the correct action in the first place.
Knowing the mindset of Europe...they'll do the latter.
I do not agree about all out war. Putin is testing the limit of what he will be allowed to do. He does not want all out war
 
You seem to miss the point that we engineered a coup in Ukraine. We turned an agreed buffer state into an anti-Russia extension of western influence.

We should be grateful that we caught Russia with its military pants around its ankles. If they weren't in economic and military disarray, they could have quickly occupied half of Ukraine (or more) and that would be that. Our allies aren't going to fight in their own back yards against a nuclear Russia to take back pro-Russian parts of Ukraine - as they showed with Crimea.
Our allies will not fight unless they feel their country is threatened.
 
The outgoing joint chief of staff says that Russia is the main threat to the USA. The fox panel discussed this last night.

One of the people said that Putin is going to try to destroy NATO and it is already working in some ways. Per the NATO agreement, if any of the members are attacked, the other members must defend that country. We have seen Putin take over parts of Ukraine already and many people it was a test to see how the world would react. Ukraine was not a NATO member however.

So, in 2016, if Russian troops move into Poland like they did in Ukraine, how does the world react? Will NATO countries send troops or will they sit back?
Why do you pick Poland when there are at least a half dozen other countries that were a part of the Soviet Union?
 
So he lied to what end? Does he want a war with Russia?

The guy who had had access to all the intelligence in a region where have far better than the ME says Russia is a threat and you guys discount that but a historian writes and article and you go with it as gospel.
I do discount it. Where does your 'blind' faith come from? We went into Iraq under Bush 1 & 2 on a lie. Kerry tried going into Syria last year but his lies were transparent. So, we're in there today anyway chasing an enemy Washington created. How convenient. Obombya has invaded and or bombed 8 countries before his 2 terms are completed and you think we are not aggressors. Right this minute, he is financing Neo-Nazis in SE Ukraine to ethnically cleanse the region that voted over 90% for Yanukovych...the democratically elected leader. What Orwellian world are you from? Why did the CIA controlled news choose not to play this?



Or this?



Read what CIA analyst, Ray McGovern had to say on this. He had a 27 year career with them and was chief of the Soviet Foreign Policy branch.

https://consortiumnews.com/2014/05/15/how-nato-jabs-russia-on-ukraine/


Obama’s Former Foreign Policy Adviser Said – In 1997 – that the U.S. Had to Gain Control of Ukraine
Posted on March 16, 2014 by WashingtonsBlog
The Battle for Ukraine Was Planned in 1997 … Or Earlier
Neoconservatives planned regime change throughout the Middle East and North Africa 20 years ago. Robert Parry correctly points out that the Neocons have successfully “weathered the storm” of disdain after their Iraq war fiasco.

But the truth is that Obama has long done his best to try to implement those Neocon plans.

Similarly, ever since the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, the U.S. has pursued a strategy of encircling Russia, just as it has with other perceived enemies like China and Iran.

In 1997, Obama’s former foreign affairs adviser, and president Jimmy Carter’s national security adviser – Zbigniew Brzezinski – wrote a book called The Grand Chessboard arguing arguing that the U.S. had to take control of Ukraine (as well as Azerbaijan, South Korea, Turkey and Iran) because they were “critically important geopolitical pivots”.

Regarding Ukraine, Brzezinski said (hat tip Chris Ernesto):

Ukraine, a new and important space on the Eurasian chessboard, is a geopolitical pivot because its very existence as an independent country helps to transform Russia. Without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be a Eurasian empire.

***

However, if Moscow regains control over Ukraine, with its 52 million people and major resources as well as access to the Black Sea, Russia automatically again regains the wherewithal to become a powerful imperial state, spanning Europe and Asia.

And now Obama is pushing us into a confrontation with Russia over Ukraine and the Crimea.

As Ernesto notes:

Late last year when Ukraine’s now-ousted president Viktor Yanukovych surprisingly canceled plans for Ukrainian integration into the European Union in favor of stronger ties with Russia, the US may have viewed Ukraine as slipping even further out of its reach.

At that point, with the pieces already in place, the US moved to support the ousting of Yanukovych, as evidenced by the leaked phone conversation between US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland [arch-Neocon Robert Kagan‘s wife] and US Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt. When peaceful protests were not effective in unseating Yanukovych, the violence of the ultra-nationalist Svoboda party and Right Sector was embraced, if not supported by the west.

In today’s Ukraine, the US runs the risk of being affiliated with anti-Semitic neo-Nazis, a prospect it probably feels can be controlled via a friendly western media. But even if the risk is high, the US likely views it as necessary given the geopolitical importance of Ukraine, as Brzezinski mapped out in 1997.

In other words, Obama is following the same old playbook that the Neocons have been pushing for more than a decade.


http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014...viser-said-1997-u-s-gain-control-ukraine.html
 
Last edited:
what missiles?
Proof that Russia and Iran Want War: Look How Close They Put Their Countries To Our Military Bases!
Posted on March 27, 2015 by WashingtonsBlog
Proof!
Bad people are putting their countries closer and closer to our military bases:

xgBMhBb.jpg


bases-overseas.jpg


Look how close Russia put its country to our military bases:

Credit: Small People Against Big Government

nato-map.jpg


Iran is just as bad:

original.jpg


This proves that Russia and Iran are the bad guys!
 
Did you think Russia annexing Crimea was crazy before they did it? They didn't do it to offset the US or NATO.

Given the history of Poland an invasion of that country is not something that is so far out on the fringe.

Your argument seems to be we have pushed Russia into doing what they are doing. What should are response be to any Russian aggression? Do you have a line that you think Russia could go over that would be too far?

When has NATO invaded another country that bordered Russia? They pose no threat to Russia as long as they don't take aggressive action against their neighbors. Is that not what we want - a world where all countries borders are respected.
Crimea was the reaction to the Western coup de tat of Ukraine. Russia is not about to give up that all important warm water port. Besides, Crimea has always been overwhelmingly Russian-centric. Gallup polls before and after the coup support this.
 
Crimea was the reaction to the Western coup de tat of Ukraine. Russia is not about to give up that all important warm water port. Besides, Crimea has always been overwhelmingly Russian-centric. Gallup polls before and after the coup support this.
Crimea has been part of the Ukraine since 1954. If the port was not there then Putin would not care how Russian-centric the population is.
 
Proof that Russia and Iran Want War: Look How Close They Put Their Countries To Our Military Bases!
Posted on March 27, 2015 by WashingtonsBlog
Proof!
Bad people are putting their countries closer and closer to our military bases:

xgBMhBb.jpg


bases-overseas.jpg


Look how close Russia put its country to our military bases:

Credit: Small People Against Big Government

nato-map.jpg


Iran is just as bad:

original.jpg


This proves that Russia and Iran are the bad guys!
Are you mad that our bases are so close to Russia or Iran or that they are not closer to us?
 
Crimea has been part of the Ukraine since 1954. If the port was not there then Putin would not care how Russian-centric the population is.
The Crimeans consider themselves Russian. They voted for Russian protection from America.
 
The Crimeans consider themselves Russian. They voted for Russian protection from America.

Crimea was Russian until 1954 when Khrushchev, a Ukrainian, transferred the peninsula from the Russian SSR to the Ukrainian SSR. The decision was made for purely administrative reasons because the Crimea is separated from Russia by bodies of water. However, the people are overwhelmingly ethnic Russians.
 
Both sides will continue to engage in petty posturing to keep their respective military industrial complexes churning along
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT