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The strange star that has serious scientists talking about an alien megastructure

cigaretteman

HB King
May 29, 2001
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“It was kind of unbelievable that it was real data,” said Yale University astronomer Tabetha Boyajian. “We were scratching our heads. For any idea that came up there was always something that would argue against it.”

She was talking to the New Scientist about KIC 8462852, a distant star with a very unusual flickering habit. Something was making the star dim drastically every few years, and she wasn’t sure what.

Boyajian wrote up a paper on possible explanations for the star’s bizarre behavior, which was published recently in the Monthly Notes of the Royals Astronomical Society. But she also sent her data to fellow astronomer Jason Wright, a Penn State University researcher who helped developed a protocol for seeking signs of unearthly civilization, wondering what he would make of it.

To Wright, it looked like the kind of star he and his colleagues had been waiting for. If none of the ordinary reasons for the star’s flux quite seemed to fit, perhaps an extraordinary one was in order.

Aliens.

Or, to be more specific, something built by aliens — a “swarm of megastructures,” as he told the Atlantic, likely outfitted with solar panels to collect energy from the star.

“When [Boyajian] showed me the data, I was fascinated by how crazy it looked,” Wright said. “Aliens should always be the very last hypothesis you consider, but this looked like something you would expect an alien civilization to build.”

To be sure, both Boyajian and Wright believe the possibility of alien megastructures around KIC 8462852 is very, very remote. It’s worthy of hypothesis, Wright told Slate, “but we should also approach it skeptically.”

Yet compared to the vast majority of supposed sightings of signs of extraterrestrial life, this one has some credibility. Here’s why.

KIC 8462852 was discovered through Planet Hunters, a citizen science program launched at Yale University in 2010. Using data from the Kepler Space Telescope, volunteers sift through records of brightness levels from roughly 150,000 stars beyond our solar system.

Ordinarily, planet hunters are looking for the telltale drops in brightness that happen when a planet crosses in front of its sun. That’s how we identify planets now — brief interruptions in the progress of light as it makes its way toward Earth. Not a presence, but an absence. Already the project has uncovered a few confirmed planets and at least several dozen more planet candidates.

But one finding from the program was unlike anything else scientists had ever seen. Volunteers marked it out as unusual in 2011, right after the program started: a star whose light curves seemed to dip tremendously at irregular intervals. At one point, about 800 days into the survey, the star’s brightness dropped by 15 percent. Later, around day 1,500, it dropped by a shocking 22 percent. Whatever was causing the dips, it could not have been a planet — even a Jupiter-sized planet, the biggest in our solar system, would only dim this star by 1 percent as it transited across, Slate reported. (The Kepler telescope was badly damaged in 2013, so the researchers don’t have data from more recent dips, if there were any).

In their paper, Boyajian and her colleagues went to great lengths to review and refute the more obvious explanations for the odd display. It wasn’t a mistake, caused by a problem the telescope or their data processors — they checked their data with the Kepler mission team, and found no problems for nearby stars when they checked their light curves against neighboring sources.

It wasn’t the star’s fault either. Some young stars, still in the process of accumulating mass, will be surrounded by a whirl of orbiting dust and rock and gas that can blur or block their light. But this star wasn’t young, Boyajian found. Nor did it look like other kinds of stars that demonstrate this light variability.

Something must be blocking the star’s light from the outside, the paper concluded — maybe catastrophic crashes in the asteroid belt, maybe a giant collision in the planetary system that spewed debris into the solar system, maybe small proto-planets shrouded in a Pig-Pen-like cloud of dust. But every explanation was lacking in some way, with the exception of one: Perhaps a family of comets orbiting KIC 8462852 had been disturbed by the passage of another nearby star. That would have sent chunks of ice and rock flying inward, explaining both the dips and their irregularity.

It would be “an extraordinary coincidence,” as the Atlantic put it, for that to have happened at exactly the right moment for humans to catch it on a telescope that’s only been aloft since 2009. “That’s a narrow band of time, cosmically speaking.”

Then again, KIC 8462852 itself is extraordinary. Of the 150,000 or so stars within view of the Kepler Telescope, it is the only one to flicker and dim in this unusual way.

Boyajian’s paper only looks at “natural” explanations for the phenomenon, she told the Atlantic. But she’s open to looking at unnatural ones, which is where Wright and his “swarm of megastructures” theory come in.

Scientists — at least, the ones who like to theorize about these things — have long said that an advanced alien civilization would be marked by its ability to harness the energy from its sun (rather than scrabbling over its planet’s resources like us puny earthlings). They envision something like a Dyson Sphere, a hypothetical megastructure first proposed by physicist Freeman Dyson that would orbit or even encompass a star, capturing its power and putting it to use.

Obviously, a Dyson sphere has never been spotted in real life, though they’re all over science fiction. But if one were to exist, it wouldn’t look like a metal ball around the sun — it would probably comprise a chain of smaller satellites or space habitats, something that would block its star’s light as weirdly and irregularly as the light of KIC 8462852 has been blocked. That’s why researchers who are interested in finding alien life are so excited about the finding.

Boyajian, Wright and Andrew Siemion, the director of the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Research Center at the University of California, Berkeley, are now working on getting access to the massive radio dishes they can point at the star in search of the kinds of radio waves usually emitted by technology.

If they find them — well, that would be very big and very, very unlikely news.

Of course, the star in question is about 1,481 light-years away from Earth — meaning that even if aliens did create a giant solar panel complex out there, they did so in the 6th century, while we were emptying chamber pots out of second story windows and fighting off the first bubonic plague pandemic.

Quite a bit has changed on Earth since then. Who knows what could have happened around KIC 8462852?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ng-about-an-alien-megastructure/?tid=pm_pop_b
 
im-not-saying-its-aliens-but-its-aliens.jpg
 
“It was kind of unbelievable that it was real data,” said Yale University astronomer Tabetha Boyajian. “We were scratching our heads. For any idea that came up there was always something that would argue against it.”

She was talking to the New Scientist about KIC 8462852, a distant star with a very unusual flickering habit. Something was making the star dim drastically every few years, and she wasn’t sure what.

Boyajian wrote up a paper on possible explanations for the star’s bizarre behavior, which was published recently in the Monthly Notes of the Royals Astronomical Society. But she also sent her data to fellow astronomer Jason Wright, a Penn State University researcher who helped developed a protocol for seeking signs of unearthly civilization, wondering what he would make of it.

To Wright, it looked like the kind of star he and his colleagues had been waiting for. If none of the ordinary reasons for the star’s flux quite seemed to fit, perhaps an extraordinary one was in order.

Aliens.

Or, to be more specific, something built by aliens — a “swarm of megastructures,” as he told the Atlantic, likely outfitted with solar panels to collect energy from the star.

“When [Boyajian] showed me the data, I was fascinated by how crazy it looked,” Wright said. “Aliens should always be the very last hypothesis you consider, but this looked like something you would expect an alien civilization to build.”

To be sure, both Boyajian and Wright believe the possibility of alien megastructures around KIC 8462852 is very, very remote. It’s worthy of hypothesis, Wright told Slate, “but we should also approach it skeptically.”

Yet compared to the vast majority of supposed sightings of signs of extraterrestrial life, this one has some credibility. Here’s why.

KIC 8462852 was discovered through Planet Hunters, a citizen science program launched at Yale University in 2010. Using data from the Kepler Space Telescope, volunteers sift through records of brightness levels from roughly 150,000 stars beyond our solar system.

Ordinarily, planet hunters are looking for the telltale drops in brightness that happen when a planet crosses in front of its sun. That’s how we identify planets now — brief interruptions in the progress of light as it makes its way toward Earth. Not a presence, but an absence. Already the project has uncovered a few confirmed planets and at least several dozen more planet candidates.

But one finding from the program was unlike anything else scientists had ever seen. Volunteers marked it out as unusual in 2011, right after the program started: a star whose light curves seemed to dip tremendously at irregular intervals. At one point, about 800 days into the survey, the star’s brightness dropped by 15 percent. Later, around day 1,500, it dropped by a shocking 22 percent. Whatever was causing the dips, it could not have been a planet — even a Jupiter-sized planet, the biggest in our solar system, would only dim this star by 1 percent as it transited across, Slate reported. (The Kepler telescope was badly damaged in 2013, so the researchers don’t have data from more recent dips, if there were any).

In their paper, Boyajian and her colleagues went to great lengths to review and refute the more obvious explanations for the odd display. It wasn’t a mistake, caused by a problem the telescope or their data processors — they checked their data with the Kepler mission team, and found no problems for nearby stars when they checked their light curves against neighboring sources.

It wasn’t the star’s fault either. Some young stars, still in the process of accumulating mass, will be surrounded by a whirl of orbiting dust and rock and gas that can blur or block their light. But this star wasn’t young, Boyajian found. Nor did it look like other kinds of stars that demonstrate this light variability.

Something must be blocking the star’s light from the outside, the paper concluded — maybe catastrophic crashes in the asteroid belt, maybe a giant collision in the planetary system that spewed debris into the solar system, maybe small proto-planets shrouded in a Pig-Pen-like cloud of dust. But every explanation was lacking in some way, with the exception of one: Perhaps a family of comets orbiting KIC 8462852 had been disturbed by the passage of another nearby star. That would have sent chunks of ice and rock flying inward, explaining both the dips and their irregularity.

It would be “an extraordinary coincidence,” as the Atlantic put it, for that to have happened at exactly the right moment for humans to catch it on a telescope that’s only been aloft since 2009. “That’s a narrow band of time, cosmically speaking.”

Then again, KIC 8462852 itself is extraordinary. Of the 150,000 or so stars within view of the Kepler Telescope, it is the only one to flicker and dim in this unusual way.

Boyajian’s paper only looks at “natural” explanations for the phenomenon, she told the Atlantic. But she’s open to looking at unnatural ones, which is where Wright and his “swarm of megastructures” theory come in.

Scientists — at least, the ones who like to theorize about these things — have long said that an advanced alien civilization would be marked by its ability to harness the energy from its sun (rather than scrabbling over its planet’s resources like us puny earthlings). They envision something like a Dyson Sphere, a hypothetical megastructure first proposed by physicist Freeman Dyson that would orbit or even encompass a star, capturing its power and putting it to use.

Obviously, a Dyson sphere has never been spotted in real life, though they’re all over science fiction. But if one were to exist, it wouldn’t look like a metal ball around the sun — it would probably comprise a chain of smaller satellites or space habitats, something that would block its star’s light as weirdly and irregularly as the light of KIC 8462852 has been blocked. That’s why researchers who are interested in finding alien life are so excited about the finding.

Boyajian, Wright and Andrew Siemion, the director of the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Research Center at the University of California, Berkeley, are now working on getting access to the massive radio dishes they can point at the star in search of the kinds of radio waves usually emitted by technology.

If they find them — well, that would be very big and very, very unlikely news.

Of course, the star in question is about 1,481 light-years away from Earth — meaning that even if aliens did create a giant solar panel complex out there, they did so in the 6th century, while we were emptying chamber pots out of second story windows and fighting off the first bubonic plague pandemic.

Quite a bit has changed on Earth since then. Who knows what could have happened around KIC 8462852?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ng-about-an-alien-megastructure/?tid=pm_pop_b
I am guessing it is one of Hillary's speech writers.
 
I wonder how many millions of dollars are spent of stuff like this. Like it really matters at all, if alien life exists and they are advanced enough for mass space travel then they are way more advanced then us and likely have us figured out already.
 
I wonder how many millions of dollars are spent of stuff like this. Like it really matters at all, if alien life exists and they are advanced enough for mass space travel then they are way more advanced then us and likely have us figured out already.

You don't think there are applications for this down the road? This isn't *just* about the search for extra-terrestrial life. I think the space program is one of the best places we can be putting resources. Massive potential for energy development, a better understanding of the natural threats we face by merely existing in this tiny spot in the universe. I think it's very relevant.
 
You don't think there are applications for this down the road? This isn't *just* about the search for extra-terrestrial life. I think the space program is one of the best places we can be putting resources. Massive potential for energy development, a better understanding of the natural threats we face by merely existing in this tiny spot in the universe. I think it's very relevant.
Put the trillions we have wasted in space research into cancer research and eradicate that damn disease.
 
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You don't think there are applications for this down the road? This isn't *just* about the search for extra-terrestrial life. I think the space program is one of the best places we can be putting resources. Massive potential for energy development, a better understanding of the natural threats we face by merely existing in this tiny spot in the universe. I think it's very relevant.
Agree with this. I always find it interesting when people scoff at stuff like this. Space exploration is more important than many people realize for so many reasons. Possibly even the survival of the species down the road.
 
You don't think there are applications for this down the road? This isn't *just* about the search for extra-terrestrial life. I think the space program is one of the best places we can be putting resources. Massive potential for energy development, a better understanding of the natural threats we face by merely existing in this tiny spot in the universe. I think it's very relevant.

Actually I think is a huge waste of money. Researching things that are 1481 light years away is of zero value. Even if we ever develop the ability to travel at the speed of light it would take 1481 years to get there. Again zero value.
 
I wonder how many millions of dollars are spent of stuff like this. Like it really matters at all, if alien life exists and they are advanced enough for mass space travel then they are way more advanced then us and likely have us figured out already.
Even if there are no useful spinoffs of this and it amounts to little more than welfare for scientists to keep them from roaming the streets in nerd packs (and who wants that?), isn't it better than paying them to sit on their asses or to push paper in a government job?

Once you realize that most jobs aren't "real" jobs - in the sense that they aren't actually producing anything, or anything particularly useful, at any rate - then this sort of work looks better than most made-up jobs.
 
Actually I think is a huge waste of money. Researching things that are 1481 light years away is of zero value. Even if we ever develop the ability to travel at the speed of light it would take 1481 years to get there. Again zero value.

You're missing the bigger picture. Looking deep into space is, literally, looking back in time. We've learned a lot about how systems develop and age and what happens to both trigger catastrophic events and what's left behind after they do. It has huge implications on energy research. We're not doing this research to figure out where to travel next. There are a lot of things we know today that we learned by looking to the stars. I don't see any reason to stop now.
 
Of course, the star in question is about 1,481 light-years away from Earth — meaning that even if aliens did create a giant solar panel complex out there, they did so in the 6th century, while we were emptying chamber pots out of second story windows and fighting off the first bubonic plague pandemic.

Mind blown.
 
Actual scientists have also looked at this, and determined it's far more likely to be comet debris dragged through the system by a rogue star. But if this is your favorite game...
jump_to_conclusions_mat.jpg
 
Actually I think is a huge waste of money. Researching things that are 1481 light years away is of zero value. Even if we ever develop the ability to travel at the speed of light it would take 1481 years to get there. Again zero value.

Depends on your perspective, of course. To the traveler, the trip would seem instantaneous. That kind of travel would have some value.
 
I wonder how many millions of dollars are spent of stuff like this. Like it really matters at all, if alien life exists and they are advanced enough for mass space travel then they are way more advanced then us and likely have us figured out already.

....because all that 'sciency stuff' has done so little for us over the years...
 
Actually I think is a huge waste of money. Researching things that are 1481 light years away is of zero value. Even if we ever develop the ability to travel at the speed of light it would take 1481 years to get there. Again zero value.

Finding proof of life and better yet intelligent life on another planet(s) will set forward a new scientific revolution, engine propulsion and space race in a way that we have not thought possible (outside of science fiction). Your discounting of the human's spirit towards exploration is quite profound and terribly misguided.

We might not get to experience it as we are just at the beginning of our space program (relatively speaking) but future generations are in for a treat IMO. We have a new ocean to cross, it happens to be dark, black and vast but no doubt we will explore it further and further for as long as our species is around...exciting stuff.
 
Actually I think is a huge waste of money. Researching things that are 1481 light years away is of zero value. Even if we ever develop the ability to travel at the speed of light it would take 1481 years to get there. Again zero value.

k_pax_wallpaper_by_diegocapani-d5mr8jo.jpg
 
You don't think there are applications for this down the road? This isn't *just* about the search for extra-terrestrial life. I think the space program is one of the best places we can be putting resources. Massive potential for energy development, a better understanding of the natural threats we face by merely existing in this tiny spot in the universe. I think it's very relevant.

He just can't see past the end of his nose.
 
Yes. We can't draw any conclusions about what another civilization, with beings potentially completely different than us (you know, like, ALIENS!), would be "likley to build". All we know is us.

We know math and physics, we know what materials (for the most part) that the universe is made up of, we know engineering. You are right there may be some things we can't account for but there is a whole hell of things we can account for.
 
You're missing the bigger picture. Looking deep into space is, literally, looking back in time. We've learned a lot about how systems develop and age and what happens to both trigger catastrophic events and what's left behind after they do. It has huge implications on energy research. We're not doing this research to figure out where to travel next. There are a lot of things we know today that we learned by looking to the stars. I don't see any reason to stop now.

I'm not missing the big picture at all, I just have a different perspective on the subject. I feel the money spent on this could be better spent elsewhere. Someone mentioned cancer research, that's just one of many examples of issues that face us today.

What's the value of what has been learned? What are the huge implications you speak of, are we still not fossil fuel dependent? I just don't see value in learning how systems develop or looking back in time, and if a catastrophic event occurs; what's left won't be us. Again, just my opinion.
 
We know math and physics, we know what materials (for the most part) that the universe is made up of, we know engineering. You are right there may be some things we can't account for but there is a whole hell of things we can account for.

We know our perspective of these things. Have you ever thought that may our interpretation of math and physics is incorrect? Really it comes down to what a group of humans decided these things mean.
 
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We know our perspective of these things. Have you ever thought that may our interpretation of math and physics is incorrect? Really it comes down to what a group of humans decided these things mean.

There are definitely areas where our understanding of math and physics are incomplete, but while our labels are man-invented (meters, miles, time intervals, etc.), the larger concepts are demonstrable and measured in the real world. Things are made of what they're made of and chemical elements have inherent properties. An extra-terrestrial civilization is going to call carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen and oxygen other names, but they exist in the universe and their properties are going to be known by any civilization advanced enough for space travel.

As for the benefits, we've seen massive development over the last 50 years in areas that spun out of the space program. We've developed lighter and stronger materials, we've developed better healthcare treatments (implantable heart monitors, for one), we've made huge strides in solar panel technology and propulsion systems that have applications terrestrially. The list goes on and on. This is not a zero-sum game where every dollar that goes to space research goes to space and does not benefit other areas.

I'd pose it this way -- thousands of years of human history are absolutely full of exploration, learning about the world around us and finding better ways to do things. Why would we stop now and not take that next leap off the planet?
 
“It was kind of unbelievable that it was real data,” said Yale University astronomer Tabetha Boyajian. “We were scratching our heads. For any idea that came up there was always something that would argue against it.”

She was talking to the New Scientist about KIC 8462852, a distant star with a very unusual flickering habit. Something was making the star dim drastically every few years, and she wasn’t sure what.

Boyajian wrote up a paper on possible explanations for the star’s bizarre behavior, which was published recently in the Monthly Notes of the Royals Astronomical Society. But she also sent her data to fellow astronomer Jason Wright, a Penn State University researcher who helped developed a protocol for seeking signs of unearthly civilization, wondering what he would make of it.

To Wright, it looked like the kind of star he and his colleagues had been waiting for. If none of the ordinary reasons for the star’s flux quite seemed to fit, perhaps an extraordinary one was in order.

Aliens.

Or, to be more specific, something built by aliens — a “swarm of megastructures,” as he told the Atlantic, likely outfitted with solar panels to collect energy from the star.

“When [Boyajian] showed me the data, I was fascinated by how crazy it looked,” Wright said. “Aliens should always be the very last hypothesis you consider, but this looked like something you would expect an alien civilization to build.”

To be sure, both Boyajian and Wright believe the possibility of alien megastructures around KIC 8462852 is very, very remote. It’s worthy of hypothesis, Wright told Slate, “but we should also approach it skeptically.”

Yet compared to the vast majority of supposed sightings of signs of extraterrestrial life, this one has some credibility. Here’s why.

KIC 8462852 was discovered through Planet Hunters, a citizen science program launched at Yale University in 2010. Using data from the Kepler Space Telescope, volunteers sift through records of brightness levels from roughly 150,000 stars beyond our solar system.

Ordinarily, planet hunters are looking for the telltale drops in brightness that happen when a planet crosses in front of its sun. That’s how we identify planets now — brief interruptions in the progress of light as it makes its way toward Earth. Not a presence, but an absence. Already the project has uncovered a few confirmed planets and at least several dozen more planet candidates.

But one finding from the program was unlike anything else scientists had ever seen. Volunteers marked it out as unusual in 2011, right after the program started: a star whose light curves seemed to dip tremendously at irregular intervals. At one point, about 800 days into the survey, the star’s brightness dropped by 15 percent. Later, around day 1,500, it dropped by a shocking 22 percent. Whatever was causing the dips, it could not have been a planet — even a Jupiter-sized planet, the biggest in our solar system, would only dim this star by 1 percent as it transited across, Slate reported. (The Kepler telescope was badly damaged in 2013, so the researchers don’t have data from more recent dips, if there were any).

In their paper, Boyajian and her colleagues went to great lengths to review and refute the more obvious explanations for the odd display. It wasn’t a mistake, caused by a problem the telescope or their data processors — they checked their data with the Kepler mission team, and found no problems for nearby stars when they checked their light curves against neighboring sources.

It wasn’t the star’s fault either. Some young stars, still in the process of accumulating mass, will be surrounded by a whirl of orbiting dust and rock and gas that can blur or block their light. But this star wasn’t young, Boyajian found. Nor did it look like other kinds of stars that demonstrate this light variability.

Something must be blocking the star’s light from the outside, the paper concluded — maybe catastrophic crashes in the asteroid belt, maybe a giant collision in the planetary system that spewed debris into the solar system, maybe small proto-planets shrouded in a Pig-Pen-like cloud of dust. But every explanation was lacking in some way, with the exception of one: Perhaps a family of comets orbiting KIC 8462852 had been disturbed by the passage of another nearby star. That would have sent chunks of ice and rock flying inward, explaining both the dips and their irregularity.

It would be “an extraordinary coincidence,” as the Atlantic put it, for that to have happened at exactly the right moment for humans to catch it on a telescope that’s only been aloft since 2009. “That’s a narrow band of time, cosmically speaking.”

Then again, KIC 8462852 itself is extraordinary. Of the 150,000 or so stars within view of the Kepler Telescope, it is the only one to flicker and dim in this unusual way.

Boyajian’s paper only looks at “natural” explanations for the phenomenon, she told the Atlantic. But she’s open to looking at unnatural ones, which is where Wright and his “swarm of megastructures” theory come in.

Scientists — at least, the ones who like to theorize about these things — have long said that an advanced alien civilization would be marked by its ability to harness the energy from its sun (rather than scrabbling over its planet’s resources like us puny earthlings). They envision something like a Dyson Sphere, a hypothetical megastructure first proposed by physicist Freeman Dyson that would orbit or even encompass a star, capturing its power and putting it to use.

Obviously, a Dyson sphere has never been spotted in real life, though they’re all over science fiction. But if one were to exist, it wouldn’t look like a metal ball around the sun — it would probably comprise a chain of smaller satellites or space habitats, something that would block its star’s light as weirdly and irregularly as the light of KIC 8462852 has been blocked. That’s why researchers who are interested in finding alien life are so excited about the finding.

Boyajian, Wright and Andrew Siemion, the director of the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Research Center at the University of California, Berkeley, are now working on getting access to the massive radio dishes they can point at the star in search of the kinds of radio waves usually emitted by technology.

If they find them — well, that would be very big and very, very unlikely news.

Of course, the star in question is about 1,481 light-years away from Earth — meaning that even if aliens did create a giant solar panel complex out there, they did so in the 6th century, while we were emptying chamber pots out of second story windows and fighting off the first bubonic plague pandemic.

Quite a bit has changed on Earth since then. Who knows what could have happened around KIC 8462852?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ng-about-an-alien-megastructure/?tid=pm_pop_b

Oh boy, here we go with the tinfoil crowd, lol. What's next, is Atlantis going to surface below Florida today too? Tinfoil Ciggy, that's his name.
 
Put the trillions we have wasted in space research into cancer research and eradicate that damn disease.

Mining Space is the future. If you can develop a space elevator and develop a an asteroid mining system (billions of dollars), the average metallic asteroid could bring in 20 Trillion in revenue, and there are 1000's of them out there. There will be a gold rush on space, once the technical hurdles are overcome. Personally, I expect to see private enterprise do this.
 
We know our perspective of these things. Have you ever thought that may our interpretation of math and physics is incorrect? Really it comes down to what a group of humans decided these things mean.

What if C-A-T actually spelled DOG ??
 
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We know our perspective of these things. Have you ever thought that may our interpretation of math and physics is incorrect? Really it comes down to what a group of humans decided these things mean.

There is a Nova episode devoted to essentially what you are arguing - is math a human invention or the language of the universe? For those of you who like science and math, its worth watching sometime. Fascinating, fascinating stuff.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/great-math-mystery.html
 
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