The west has got to figure out how to score points.

[Wasnt-drunk-didnt-troll]

I'm rewatching this championship game. Wiscy is the epitome of a big ten west team. They run the ball well, play great defense and overall play good football. What they couldn't do however is have the offensive unit put the ball in the end zone. If we are going to get away from "they play in the west" and 12 win teams that fight "soft schedule" we, meaning the west champion, are going to have to figure out how to consistently score points against the elite.

 

[Hawk fan in MN]

The west needs better athletes. The East consistantly gets 4 and 5 star athletes. West gets 2 and 3 star athletes.

 

[hansenhawk]

KF has to figure out how to run and offense as well. Would certainly help.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

If we are going to get away from "they play in the west" and 12 win teams that fight "soft schedule" we, meaning the west champion, is going to have to figure out how to consistently score points against the elite.

The difference between the "elite" and everyone else is that it's harder for the non-elite to stockpile enough talent to be good at everything.

 

[Hawktagonapus]

Who cares about the West? Iowa needs to score more.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

The west needs better athletes. The East consistantly gets 4 and 5 star athletes. West gets 2 and 3 star athletes.

The East being established powers such as Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, and MSU by default in order to keep up with OSU and Michigan..............

Maryland might pull in a couple because of recruiting territory. Rutgers gets nothing. Indiana gets nothing.

It's all about established programs that sell themselves. Iowa, and Wisconsin to a lesser extent due to their success, don't have that luxury.

What we also need is for the other 5 a**holes in our division to stop cannibalizing each other (looking at you Fat Pat, you bumble f***) and start pulling their weight against the East instead of hanging their hats on beating Iowa, and on much rarer occasions, Wisconsin (that's also mostly on Northwestern).

Here's how the other 5 teams in the B10 West have fared against the East since 2014 in comparison to their results against Iowa and Wisconsin (and the West division)....

Northwestern:
vs B10 East- 6-4 (2014: at PSU; 2015: PSU; 2016: Indiana, at MSU; 2017: MSU, at Maryland)
vs B10 West- 15-9
vs Iowa/Wis- 4-4 (2014-15 vs Wis, 2016-17 vs Iowa)

Minnesota:
vs B10 East- 3-7 (2014: at Michigan; 2016: Rutgers, at Maryland)
vs B10 West- 11-13
vs Iowa/Wis- 1-7 (2014 vs Iowa)

Nebraska:
vs B10 East- 6-4 (2014: Rutgers; 2015: MSU, at Rutgers; 2016: at Indiana, Maryland; 2017: Rutgers)
vs B10 West- 11-13
vs Iowa/Wis- 1-7 (2014 at Iowa)

Purdue:
vs B10 East- 1-9 (2017: Indiana)
vs B10 West- 6-18
vs Iowa/Wis- 1-7 (2017 at Iowa)

Illinois:
vs B10 East- 3-7 (2014: PSU; 2016: at Rutgers, MSU)
vs B10 West- 4-20
vs Iowa/Wis- 0-8


The two best wins from this group come from Nebraska beating Michigan State (12-2), 39-38, in Lincoln, back in 2015, and Northwestern beating Michigan State (9-3) in Evanston this year, 39-31 in triple OT.
Michigan was 5-7 in 2014. Penn State was 7-6 in 2014 and 2015 and MSU went 3-9 in 2016. Outside of Iowa and Wisconsin, those wins mentioned above are the only wins by Big Ten West teams over East teams with 8 or more wins........

 

[speed4power]

I posted a thread kind of about this yesterday. It starts with running more of a spread offense with mobile QB in my opinion. Unless you're Alabama and have elite level talent, you're just not going to move the ball against the best teams with consistency with Iowa and Wisconsin's style of offense.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

I posted a thread kind of about this yesterday. It starts with running more of a spread offense with mobile QB in my opinion. Unless you're Alabama and have elite level talent, you're just not going to move the ball against the best teams with consistency anymore against top teams with Iowa and Wisconsin's style of offense.

I'd take Wisconsin's OL and a Brad Banks kind of QB and win a Big Ten title. Pro style offenses work very well when you have great OLs and solid dual threat QBs that you don't need to completely base your offense around (i.e. read option/JT Barrett for example).

 

[kceasthawk]

The west needs better athletes. The East consistantly gets 4 and 5 star athletes. West gets 2 and 3 star athletes.

So what your really saying is the west needs to find a way to get the same athletes that OSU, Michigan, and PSU get, correct? Do you suppose there is a reason why three of the winningest programs in college football history would generally get higher ranked recruits? Basically the east division in the BIG championship era has been controlled by OSU, (big suprise), and MSU. OSU gets the athletes because their OSU. For the most part, MSU is a team very similar to Iowa and Wisconsin. The two divisions are not nearly as unbalanced as people seem to believe. Simply put, if you put OSU in the west, it would be the stronger division, there is no debating that.

 

[Letsgohawks411]

We need to first deep-six our 1981 junior high offense. That would be s start.

 

[Hawk fan in MN]

So what your really saying is the west needs to find a way to get the same athletes that OSU, Michigan, and PSU get, correct? Do you suppose there is a reason why three of the winningest programs in college football history would generally get higher ranked recruits? Basically the east division in the BIG championship era has been controlled by OSU, (big suprise), and MSU. OSU gets the athletes because their OSU. For the most part, MSU is a team very similar to Iowa and Wisconsin. The two divisions are not nearly as unbalanced as people seem to believe. Simply put, if you put OSU in the west, it would be the stronger division, there is no debating that.

I agree with that but when they come to our division they bring numerous 4 and 5 star recruits

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

The East being established powers such as Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, and MSU by default in order to keep up with OSU and Michigan..............

Maryland might pull in a couple because of recruiting territory. Rutgers gets nothing. Indiana gets nothing.

It's all about established programs that sell themselves. Iowa, and Wisconsin to a lesser extent due to their success, don't have that luxury.

What we also need is for the other 5 a**holes in our division to stop cannibalizing each other (looking at you Fat Pat, you bumble f***) and start pulling their weight against the East instead of hanging their hats on beating Iowa, and on much rarer occasions, Wisconsin (that's also mostly on Northwestern).

Here's how the other 5 teams in the B10 West have fared against the East since 2014 in comparison to their results against Iowa and Wisconsin (and the West division)....

Northwestern:
vs B10 East- 6-4 (2014: at PSU; 2015: PSU; 2016: Indiana, at MSU; 2017: MSU, at Maryland)
vs B10 West- 15-9
vs Iowa/Wis- 4-4 (2014-15 vs Wis, 2016-17 vs Iowa)

Minnesota:
vs B10 East- 3-7 (2014: at Michigan; 2016: Rutgers, at Maryland)
vs B10 West- 11-13
vs Iowa/Wis- 1-7 (2014 vs Iowa)

Nebraska:
vs B10 East- 6-4 (2014: Rutgers; 2015: MSU, at Rutgers; 2016: at Indiana, Maryland; 2017: Rutgers)
vs B10 West- 11-13
vs Iowa/Wis- 1-7 (2014 at Iowa)

Purdue:
vs B10 East- 1-9 (2017: Indiana)
vs B10 West- 6-18
vs Iowa/Wis- 1-7 (2017 at Iowa)

Illinois:
vs B10 East- 3-7 (2014: PSU; 2016: at Rutgers, MSU)
vs B10 West- 4-20
vs Iowa/Wis- 0-8


The two best wins from this group come from Nebraska beating Michigan State (12-2), 39-38, in Lincoln, back in 2015, and Northwestern beating Michigan State (9-3) in Evanston this year, 39-31 in triple OT.
Michigan was 5-7 in 2014. Penn State was 7-6 in 2014 and 2015 and MSU went 3-9 in 2016. Outside of Iowa and Wisconsin, those wins mentioned above are the only wins by Big Ten West teams over East teams with 8 or more wins........

I'm gonna bump this to add Iowa and Wisconsin's records over that same time:

Iowa:
vs B10 East- 6-5 (2014: Indiana; 2015: Maryland, at Indiana; 2016: at Rutgers, Michigan; 2017: Ohio State) *extra game in BTCG (0-1)

vs B10 West- 16-8

Wisconsin:
vs B10 East- 8-5 (2014: at Rutgers, Maryland; 2015: Rutgers, at Maryland; 2016: at MSU; 2017: Maryland, at Indiana, Michigan) * 3 extra games in BTCG (0-3)

vs B10 West- 21-3


Iowa owns two of the five best wins West division teams have had over East division teams since the current divisions were established in 2014..............

 

[HawkLogic]

I'd take a Russell Wilson type QB for Iowa.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

I'd take a Russell Wilson type QB for Iowa.

But taller.......and not Russell Wilson.

 

[cmhawks99]

We need to first deep-six our 1981 junior high offense. That would be s start.

Watch a little more football, then comment. Right now it's meaningless.

 

[mikesright]

Scott Frost at NE and Brohm at Purdue will up the ante for the division IMO

 

[speed4power]

Scott Frost at NE and Brohm at Purdue will up the ante for the division IMO

Agree. I also think Minnesota football will be making a comeback. Fleck needs a few years to get his guys in place.

 

[Obviously Oblivious]

I'd take Wisconsin's OL and a Brad Banks kind of QB and win a Big Ten title. Pro style offenses work very well when you have great OLs and solid dual threat QBs that you don't need to completely base your offense around (i.e. read option/JT Barrett for example).

Except Wisconsin’s OL looked like ginormous pussies last night.

 

[cmhawks99]

I don't know about that. I don't think the spread between the leagues is near as drastic as is sometimes suggested. Look at it like this...Iowa went toe to toe with the three best teams in the east and crushed Ohio State. Go ahead and call the Ohio State game an outlier if you will, but they were every bit the team Penn State and Michigan State were. In fact I don't know if anyone realizes this but Iowa has been in a bit of a downturn in the last couple drafts, they'll be trending up the next few years & they are within six of Michigan right now. In fact Iowa has 24 kids on NFL rosters Michigan has 30 and Michigan State, Penn State and Wisconsin are in between us. I think Nebraska is somewhere in there too, so honestly it's Ohio State and everybody else.

I counted a little while ago I might have Penn State & Michigan flipped but regardless it has long been Ohio State and then about six other teams.

Probably more telling than that Michigan State scored 18, 17, 14, 17, 3 and then 17... not counting some 20+ point games against nobody's!

Michigan scored 10, 13 & 10...

Penn State really racked up the scores on some teams and they crushed Michigan but they score 24 verse Michigan State and lost they scored 19 against us but they also scored 38 against Ohio State and lost and they gave up 44 to Nebraska. I know nobody wants to hear this but you can't take offense and defense and philosophy and then separate them.

Yes we need to score more, but quite frankly how we play football isn't much different than Wisconsin or Michigan or Michigan State or Minnesota and even to some degree Northwestern.

I get that it looks like our offense is the one that always lets us down. But quite frankly had we not had our heads up our ass at the start of that Michigan State game on defense we still would've likely won. Same thing goes with Purdue, we went to sleep for about a five minute stretch in the second half and when you're team like Iowa unfortunately you don't get to do that.

And listen I'm not picking on the defense, I'm a defensive guy and I think we play highend D almost always, but this isnt all done in a vacuum; it's all still a composite of the 3 units.

 

[cmhawks99]

Except Wisconsin’s OL looked like ginormous pussies last night.

So did their defensive line. It's crazy how different a team can look game to game!

 

[kceasthawk]

I agree with that but when they come to our division they bring numerous 4 and 5 star recruits

I'm not disputing that, just stating that OSU is the bell cow that swings the balance of power. Other then that the divisions are pretty equally matched. The better teams in the west, having winning records against the east teams since the split. Yes, I realize that some of those wins are against the lesser teams in the east, which is where Michigan, MSU, and PSU get a lot of their wins as well.

 

[Hawk68]

Iowa and the West need coaches who are able to recruit nation wide like Alabama who has a lot of recruiting competition near them. Of course admission standards play a major role.

 

[Wasnt-drunk-didnt-troll]

Nebraska is going to recruit nationally. It all comes down to the money you are willing to spend.

 

[cmhawks99]

Well let's just ask the question, how much more national do we need to be....

Wisconsin Michigan Missouri Ohio Pennsylvania New Jersey Illinois Indiana Texas Florida Mississippi now Tennessee, we have been trying in Georgia and Bama...north Dakota South Dakota Minnesota...a guy in California right now...

I mean honestly....this is just another one of those "fan" things

 

[cmhawks99]

Well let's just ask the question, how much more national do we need to be....

Wisconsin Michigan Missouri Ohio Pennsylvania New Jersey Illinois Indiana Texas Florida Mississippi now Tennessee, we have been trying in Georgia and Bama...north Dakota South Dakota Minnesota...a guy in California right now...

I mean honestly....this is just another one of those "fan" things

I forgot Nebraska and Oklahoma...really I don't get it ?