thought on Wagner

[Hawkeye2222]

is it possible to think of him possibly starting at the 4 this Fall,

I ask because this came up last night when my son-in-law put it to me, we were talking about the similarities between Wagner and Basabe,

Basabe came in @ 6'7 215 lbs
Wargner will come in @ 6'7 215 lbs

neither could shoot the 3 but both can bang down low and score inside,

Basabe FR season 11 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.3 bpg, 57.2% FG, 71.4% FT and was named to the All BT FR team

can Wagner do that? maybe maybe not but the similarities are there to think about it.

Uhl looks more comfortable and might make a better option at the 3 after Uthoff is gone, thoughts.

 

[Chicityhawkfan]

I think it's a fair comparison, but next year I see a starting lineup of MG, Jok, JU, Dom and Woody. I see lots of the 1-2-1-1 press then dropping back into the zone. Aside from Wagner there aren't going to be a lot of big bodies to bang down low. Going zone with all that length will be a way to cover that up. As far as Uhl is concerned, I don't know if I ever see him being a bulky guy that bangs down low. Seems to be a stretch 4 that will prefer to play on the perimeter. Just my 2 cents.

 

[SotaHawk87]

Uhl will have to take his ball handling from 0 to 100 if he's going to play a true three. Its 50/50 when he has the ball of whether or not it gets stolen, deflected, or offense slows down.

 

[Chicityhawkfan]

That's kind of how I felt about Uthoff last year. Just really weak with the ball. I think an offseason to get a little stronger will be good for Dom

 

[SirEdHightower]

Uhl has the physical tools, but his positioning and decision making need some refining. Dom will probably have to play some 5 unless Iowa scores a big for this class. That's kind of scary.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[HawkVic]

Wagner is gonna be a beast. I think that he could start right away. Iowa won't have much coming off the bench for the 4 or 5 spot if he starts though.

 

[DanHawkPella]

Always wondered what would happen if Baer added 20 lbs in the offseason.

Wagner is clearly a 4/5 given our lineup next year, and we need 55 minutes at those 2 positions after Woodbury's 25.

Uthoff would be best at the 3 but is likely better at the 4 than Uhl, Baer or Wagner at this point. We also have Jok and Fleming that could play the 3, and perhaps Hutton also. Lots of guys at the 3 but nobody at 4/5.

I'm guessing Uthoff or Uhl starts at the 4 with Wagner backing both positions up.

 

[Hawkeye2222]

I think of Uhl being a lighter version of 6'7 McCabe, shoots the 3 but not a banger, and Uhl does have the quicks to guard any 3. as Gabe was quoted as saying Uhl was faster than he was/is and Uhl is just as Atheletic as Gabe. the 4 spot will be fine it is the 5 that I am worried about.

this would be my short line up {sorta}

1 6'2 Gesell
2 6'2 Clemmons
3 6'6 Jok
4 6'7 Wagner
5 6'9 Uthoff

that lineup could/would be a good lineup for 5-6 minutes per game not sure how it would work for 5-6 minutes in one stretches though. Jok will need to work on his dribbling and passing, to become a better player, this will also improve his defense although he has shown stretches of being able to play good defense but not great defense.

other than high lites of Wagner don't know much to determine his ability to pass or dribble the BB maybe others who have seen more of him can chime in, the other 3 will be SR's. so most know what they bring to the table.

anything IA gets from the other FR will be gravy, but the one thing that is a common theme they are all better defenders than what Fran has been able to bring in the past.

in my opinion Wagner can/will be the X-factor this fall. after seeing what Fran recruit Basabe did. that just reinforces my belief.

 

[ynglbc]

Current situation has Wagner playing the backup 5

 

[NI hawk]

How many people that have posted in this thread have actually seen Wagner play?

 

[SDHawkDoc]

As I commented on the Kent Hill thread, I hope that Wagner loves the weights and adds muscle. A solid 6'7" 225 lbs. would be a nice presence down low.

 

[Hawkeye2222]

all I have seen is his video's. to me he will make a solid 4 but will not be a 5, if anybody plays the 5 it will be Uthoff by default at 6'9.

 

[hawkisak]

Remember that Wagner's team lost the state championship in the largest class in Ohio in Football! He is tough. He knows how to mix it up. He plays for Travis Trice's dad. He was just voted 1st team all SW Ohio. His team plays today and when they win, they will play at Xavier's Cintas Center on Wednesday. I'll attend and post some pics..

 

[Hawkeye2222]

THX would like to know how he does as well. just not to wild about a 6'7 player at the center position, Dawson for MSU is only 6'7.

to many 6-10 to 7'1 centers in the BT to try to compete with a 6'7 backup.

 

[pink shizzle]

Originally posted by hawkisak:
His team plays today and when they win, they will play at Xavier's Cintas Center on Wednesday. I'll attend and post some pics..

That would be great

 

[DodgerHawki]

If Iowa is in a position where Baer is a counted-on rotation player next year, we are in serious trouble. At some point in his career, he could play minutes, but if it's in 2015-16, a lot has gone wrong to get to that spot.

Next year will be interesting. A nice combination of players coming back with some experience/talent, but also losing a lot with White and Olaseni. Lots of opportunity for people to step up, and also opportunity for player time immediately for the right graduate transfer.

 

[The Sleeping Dog]

a guy in a political chat room group to which I belong lives in Huber Heights Ohio. I never really put two and two together....cuz we're arguing about politics, but I asked him today if he ever heard anything about an Ahmad Wagner HS athlete.

Our chat room guys kids are going to go to Wayne HS and he takes them to the football and basketball games. Says he doesn't know a lot but his boys want to go so no real expert. Anyway, he says that Ahmad Wagner is a big star in his hometown. He also said he looks a lot older than the other HS kids and can really jump and dunk. Wish I would have put this together earlier I'd have given him more specific things to observe.

 

[seer_hawk]

Originally posted by Hawkeye2222:

all I have seen is his video's. to me he will make a solid 4 but will not be a 5, if anybody plays the 5 it will be Uthoff by default at 6'9.

There are a lot of unknowns at this point in time. Who steps up at the 3, will Fran sign a 4/5 this spring, how big of an impact will each freshman (or newcomer) have at their more natural positions? Going into the season Uthoff will probably be our best SF. I don't think being (potentially) the second tallest player makes him any type of 5 by default. Next season we'll need to get more out of our recruiting class and redshirt than we did this season, or last.

I think when comparing Wagner, or any of the freshmen to Basabe, you need to remember the talent level when Basabe came in. That team finished with 11 wins. It's going to take a more exceptional freshman to get the kind of minutes Melsahn did.

 

[jaffarosenfels]

Bottom line is you don't need a true center at all times in college basketball.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[DanL53]

Dodger,

Can you give your reasons for this?

Having seen what I have of Baer, he struck me as a fairly talented kid with a good shot, and very good court awareness. I felt at the time that having him walkon was comparable to getting the kind of player UNI signs, for free.

He was 6'7" and skinny. The roster lists him as 187, that would have been at the start of the season of course. To be totally honest, I thought he looked like if he could grow a little more and put on some muscle he could be a very good player.

But, as he has redshirted, obviously I haven't had a chance to view his development.

Have you had access to any information more current than the start of the season?

The dang Wisconsin and Illinois teams each had a guy grow from 6'8" to 6'10" last season. We could use that kind of luck with somebody this year.

 

[ynglbc]

Glad Baer redshirted because I think he will be playing soon. Very good shooter from what I hear with good court awareness. State Championship team.

 

[Hawkeye2222]

to clarify Hutton is a Small Forward and is rated a 4* by 247, Moss is listed as a 4* SF by ESPN. Uthoff is a SF, and will end his career as a SF.

next season Fran can/will have the luxury of going small {if you can call it that} or big, Woody should be able to play 30 mpg, that means Fran will need to play somebody at the 5 for 10 mpg, the question is does Fran want a quick player at the 5 like Uhl or maybe some one like Uthoff as the SR with the most experience in a small rotation OR he can even use Wagner if need be,

players like Ellingson, Fleming, Moss and even Hutton the options he has not had his 1st 5 years, getting 2 4* players by 2 different sites out of Chicago is a very big step forward in the right direction.

will they struggle as FR probably, but there is usually 1 that surprises, in this case I am going with Wagner, but the one that may need watching is either Ellingson or Fleming if Jok does not improve on his ball handling and defense,

right now Jok appears to have hit a wall that some players do at the end of the season. Jok will have 8 months to work on his strength, defense and overall skills. but he will have some one to push him in practice.

 

[MarkRules]

Originally posted by ynglbc:
Glad Baer redshirted because I think he will be playing soon. Very good shooter from what I hear with good court awareness. State Championship team.

In what little we saw of him, my reaction was "He doesn't look like he is any good, EXCEPT he just scored, got a rebound played good D", etc.
Seems like the kind of kid that doesn't pass the I test but just figures out how to contribute and win. I'm really hoping he can put on some muscle and be the "How did that guy beat us?" guy for other teams playing us.

 

[SB_SB]

Originally posted by MarkRules:

Originally posted by ynglbc:
Glad Baer redshirted because I think he will be playing soon. Very good shooter from what I hear with good court awareness. State Championship team.

In what little we saw of him, my reaction was "He doesn't look like he is any good, EXCEPT he just scored, got a rebound played good D", etc.
Seems like the kind of kid that doesn't pass the I test but just figures out how to contribute and win. I'm really hoping he can put on some muscle and be the "How did that guy beat us?" guy for other teams playing us.

WOB or abbreviation?

 

[Mohawkeye]

Originally posted by SotaHawk87:
Uhl will have to take his ball handling from 0 to 100 if he's going to play a true three. Its 50/50 when he has the ball of whether or not it gets stolen, deflected, or offense slows down.

I don't think that is ball handling so much as experience. I think he handles the ball very well, which is why Fran often has him help bring the ball up court.

 

[buttermypancakes]

Originally posted by Mohawkeye:

Originally posted by SotaHawk87:
Uhl will have to take his ball handling from 0 to 100 if he's going to play a true three. Its 50/50 when he has the ball of whether or not it gets stolen, deflected, or offense slows down.

I don't think that is ball handling so much as experience. I think he handles the ball very well, which is why Fran often has him help bring the ball up court.

+1 Ball handling is one of his strengths. I would only put Gesell ahead of him in that category, he's a better ball handler than Clemmons.

 

[DanHawkPella]

Baer to me is sneaky good, just depends if he can get strong enough to get into the rotation.

My minutes by position at this point would be as follows:

Guiding parameters:
- Start with Woody with 25 minutes at Center and Gesell with 25-30 minutes at PG, and work towards the middle
- Uthoff will get 30 minutes, the question is where (SF or PF)
- Jok will get 25-30 minutes, the question is where (SG or SF)


PG: Gesell 28, Clemmons 12
SG: Jok 23, Ellingson / Fleming 17 (should be a good battle - Fleming more diverse, Ellingson the better pure shooter)
SF: Uthoff 15, Uhl 5, Jok 5, Moss/Hutton 15
PF: Uhl 20, Uthoff 10, Wagner / Baer 10
C: Woody 25; Wagner 10, Uthoff 5

The real battles are here:

Wagner vs. Baer at PF - Wagner should win this due to defense, but Baer is worth watching
Moss vs Hutton at SF - One of these two should get 10+ minutes a game
Fleming vs Ellingson at SG - I think Fleming should win this with his diversity

The better Fleming is, the more minutes Jok could spend at SF probably. It will be very interesting to see how the SF minutes shake out.

It's pretty clear that Wagner HAS to be fairly good for us to be fairly good next season. We have a lot of ways to cover the SF/PF gap by playing Uthoff more at PF, but those 15 minutes at Center behind Woodbury are an obvious problem.

 

[Hawkeye2222]

DHP I agree with most of what you posted except the last part, IA will have 3 SR starters and a 4th as the 6th man what IA needs is a serviceable player to play the 4. and here's why

JU is this years team 2nd leading scorer and is leading the team in Blocked shot, he also is 2nd on the team in Rebounding. Iexpect him to be the teams leading scorer, and the teams leader in Rebounds, Blocked shots.

Gesell avg's 3.9 apg, is this year 4th leading scorer at 7.1 ppg behind White @ 16 ppg and Gabe @ 8.3 ppg, that will put Gesell the 2nd leading returning scorer this next season

Jok avg's 7.0 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 1.3 apg in just 19.8 mpg and he was 5th in scoring his production should go up across the board.

Woody avg's 6.7 ppg, 5.2 rpg, in 20.6 mpg

Uhl avg's 2.1 ppg, 1.9 rpg and had 7 blocks on the season in 10.4 mpg

Clemmons avg's 4.7 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 1.9 apg in 19.8 mpg, it will be interesting and fun to see how the 4 position plays out

this is why I will be looking forward to hear reports come out of the PTL this summer, from those that go.

some say that Fleming is 6'5 others say he is 6'6, will anybody grow before then. like will Wagner grow to 6'8? or will Hutton grow to 6'7 vs the 6'6 he is now? Iwould really like to see Uhl put about 15 to 20 lbs on before next season begins, if he is/will behitting the weight room you should start to see him fill out and some definition to his body, to be a more physically ready player for the BT.

how will Ellingson look, any lingering effects of that foot injury and just how good of a shooter and defender is he. but I ammore interested in hearing about Wagner. can he be Fran's Reggie Evans? or even his Basabe, as I would take either one.

 

[DanHawkPella]

I think we mostly agree there. The challenge at SF is finding guys who can score from that position, and we'd almost hate to take Uthoff out of that role on offense because he's our main scorer.

Most of our incoming guys only affect the SG/SF slots: Fleming, Hutton, Moss, Ellingson. They either play SF, or they play SG which could allow others to play SF (like Jok). I think Fleming, Hutton, Moss, Jok, Uhl and Uthoff could play SF.

However, only Uhl, Uthoff, Wagner and Baer can play PF, and only Woody, Wagner and Uthoff could play Center.

Just looking at those lists pretty much indicates that Uthoff would play at least half his minutes at PF simply because we have a ton of options at SF and to your point hopefully 1 or 2 of those guys would grow in size and skill - but I don't think any of them are growing into PF's. Even Baer is a reach to grow into a PF who can defend in the Big 10 - he's not long enough and definitely lacks bulk.

I would guess Wagner is ready for about 15-20 mpg next year, hopefully, and that 15 of those will be at Center leaving the bulk of the PF minutes open. If Baer isn't physically ready, that means that Uthoff and Uhl will be eating most of those minutes.

So I expect Uthoff to play about 10-15 minutes at SF and 15 to 20 at PF next year. The only way that doesn't happen is if Wagner plays 22-25 mintutes (5-10 at PF) and Uhl plays 25+ minutes. Not sure either are ready for that, but I hope Uhl would be. He oozes talent, but does not have a big inside game on offense. With him at PF we'd have 4 guys on the perimeter most of the time offensively.

 

[MarkRules]

Originally posted by SB_SB:

Originally posted by MarkRules:

Originally posted by ynglbc:
Glad Baer redshirted because I think he will be playing soon. Very good shooter from what I hear with good court awareness. State Championship team.

In what little we saw of him, my reaction was "He doesn't look like he is any good, EXCEPT he just scored, got a rebound played good D", etc.
Seems like the kind of kid that doesn't pass the I test but just figures out how to contribute and win. I'm really hoping he can put on some muscle and be the "How did that guy beat us?" guy for other teams playing us.

WOB or abbreviation?

It was not an abbreviation so eye guess it is a WOB. Although, in my mind, a true WOB has the poster not really knowing the correct word(s) and I promise that I know it is an eye test rather than an I test. My mind said eye and my hand typed I.

I also type "are" when I mean "our", almost like a speech impediment that transfers into print.

 

[Hawkeye2222]

word is Hutton as expanded his range out past the ARC, his reported defensive ability warrents him being mentioned for playing time at the 3, Fleming is more of a WG, so he is a scoring threat at any one of 3 positions,

looking at it Fran has brought in some sharp shooters and defensive specialists. the biggest area of concern is the center position,

Uhl is 6'8 195 lbs
Baer is 6'7 187 lbs

hopefully Fran can get a big to finish this class, if he gets 1 then banks the other that is fine with me as this class will have theses as FR this fall
Moss
Fleming
Hutton
Wagner
RSFR Ellingson

not sure I would like to see 7 FR in one class, now if Fran can find a 2 year JUCO and a 4 to play 3 JUCO I wouldn't mind that or even a pair of 2 year JUCO's as that would give Fran 3 Scholarships to give in the 2017 class. rather than the 1 he has now.

DHP are you going to go to any of the PTL games?

 

[Mohawkeye]

Not sure either are ready for that, but I hope Uhl would be. He oozes talent, but does not have a big inside game on offense. With him at PF we'd have 4 guys on the perimeter most of the time offensively.
------------------------------------------------------
I think this is what Fran has in mind, Woody posting up and 4 ball handlers on the perimeter who can drive and shoot. I think both Uhl and Utoff will start next year, and both will have to defend the 4 as well as some spot duty defending the 5 with Wagner. It will all depend on the matchups, but I think Utoff especially as a Fifth year senior will have the grit to defend most centers not named Hammonds. Even being under weight, both Uhl and Utoff have the length to give taller guys problems on defense.