TNT

[Cliffking]

I grew up on Tom and Terry Brands. I had a TNT poster on my wall of those two sprinting steps in Carver, went to their camps, and I spent every hour of training time trying to model myself after them. I went to the meets, and watched them manhandle people and I went wild when they would shove people out of bounds or give their opponent a shove after the whistle. They were my heroes.


I had a decent high school wrestling career and had what many would call a successful D3 college career, although I have never really thought of it that way. I wrestled tough and tried to outwork my opponents. I tried to mentally prepare to the point that I KNEW I would win. And I did most of the time, but sometimes I’d get beat. When I did I would beat myself up for weeks or even months. I grew up watching the standard of Gable and of the Brands brothers...the mentality that if you don’t win...that if you aren’t a National Champion you have failed.


As I’ve gotten older, my views on sports have changed some. I watch Iowa wrestling right now and I find myself disinterested and in moments, even turned off. Obviously, some of it is because we aren’t scoring points and we aren’t dominating like we once did. But there is another part of it as well. The truth is, I don’t really agree with the philosophy of Iowa Wrestling any more. Of course, there is a lot that I still very relevant and will never go out of style: Work harder than everyone else, believe in yourself, push yourself harder than you think you can...mental toughness....Those are all great life lessons and great wrestling lessons.


But here’s what isn’t:

1.) The idea that winning is everything, and anything short of that is worthless.

2.) The notion that it is helpful to disrespect your opponent.


I saw both of these things in Iowa wrestlers at the tournament. I saw joylessness in their wrestling. I saw so much seriousness. Worry. And sometimes I saw a lack of respect for opponents in both winning and losing. Sometimes I think to myself, if I were my parents watching the Brands brothers wrestling and disrespecting opponents the way they did in the 90‘s...I wouldn’t know how to justify it. It was just bad sportsmanship. And frankly, I think in its own way, it greatly affects the team today


I listened tonight to this video of Gabe Dean reading a letter that he wrote to himself prior to making it to the finals, and its worth a look. http://www.mlive.com/sports/2016/03/lowells_gabe_dean_reads_letter.html . It was a reminder to me that though we all compete to win, wrestling is about so much more than just about winning. It is about giving your all and enjoying the gift of competing in greatest sport on this earth. It’s about failing and learning about yourself from your failures. It is about perseverance, discipline, and belief in one’s self.


I know that TNT are great coaches. I know they have an enormous wealth of knowledge and I know they are the fiercest of competitors. They are fantastic motivators. I also feel that they lack perspective about the things that are bigger than wrestling. And frankly, I think that lack of perspective a.) doesn’t make the wrestling an better and b.) is not as fun to watch as athletes who compete with Joy instead of Pressure and fear. and c.) misses the boat on what wresting can teach student athletes about life.


Plenty will disagree. Not trying to troll. Just needed to speak up.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Not trying to hate on your post, but (for the umpteenth time), the board is going apeshit and is angry, upset, emotional, etc. But the wrestler's don't get to be?

Of course the Lions are having fun, they are winning. Are we really pretending that the 3-peat team wasn't having fun? That the team didn't have fun after Ok State this year?

 

[Cliffking]

You are absolutely right, and I don't mean to make this post about Iowa winning or losing. Winning generally makes wrestlers happier. This is about something else. That said, in my experience at this nationals, I detected a lack of fun for wrestlers when they were winning or losing.

 

[johnstownsteel]

I grew up on Tom and Terry Brands. I had a TNT poster on my wall of those two sprinting steps in Carver, went to their camps, and I spent every hour of training time trying to model myself after them. I went to the meets, and watched them manhandle people and I went wild when they would shove people out of bounds or give their opponent a shove after the whistle. They were my heroes.


I had a decent high school wrestling career and had what many would call a successful D3 college career, although I have never really thought of it that way. I wrestled tough and tried to outwork my opponents. I tried to mentally prepare to the point that I KNEW I would win. And I did most of the time, but sometimes I’d get beat. When I did I would beat myself up for weeks or even months. I grew up watching the standard of Gable and of the Brands brothers...the mentality that if you don’t win...that if you aren’t a National Champion you have failed.


As I’ve gotten older, my views on sports have changed some. I watch Iowa wrestling right now and I find myself disinterested and in moments, even turned off. Obviously, some of it is because we aren’t scoring points and we aren’t dominating like we once did. But there is another part of it as well. The truth is, I don’t really agree with the philosophy of Iowa Wrestling any more. Of course, there is a lot that I still very relevant and will never go out of style: Work harder than everyone else, believe in yourself, push yourself harder than you think you can...mental toughness....Those are all great life lessons and great wrestling lessons.


But here’s what isn’t:

1.) The idea that winning is everything, and anything short of that is worthless.

2.) The notion that it is helpful to disrespect your opponent.


I saw both of these things in Iowa wrestlers at the tournament. I saw joylessness in their wrestling. I saw so much seriousness. Worry. And sometimes I saw a lack of respect for opponents in both winning and losing. Sometimes I think to myself, if I were my parents watching the Brands brothers wrestling and disrespecting opponents the way they did in the 90‘s...I wouldn’t know how to justify it. It was just bad sportsmanship. And frankly, I think in its own way, it greatly affects the team today


I listened tonight to this video of Gabe Dean reading a letter that he wrote to himself prior to making it to the finals, and its worth a look. http://www.mlive.com/sports/2016/03/lowells_gabe_dean_reads_letter.html . It was a reminder to me that though we all compete to win, wrestling is about so much more than just about winning. It is about giving your all and enjoying the gift of competing in greatest sport on this earth. It’s about failing and learning about yourself from your failures. It is about perseverance, discipline, and belief in one’s self.


I know that TNT are great coaches. I know they have an enormous wealth of knowledge and I know they are the fiercest of competitors. They are fantastic motivators. I also feel that they lack perspective about the things that are bigger than wrestling. And frankly, I think that lack of perspective a.) doesn’t make the wrestling an better and b.) is not as fun to watch as athletes who compete with Joy instead of Pressure and fear. and c.) misses the boat on what wresting can teach student athletes about life.


Plenty will disagree. Not trying to troll. Just needed to speak up.

I touched on this a bit in the "the attitude we need so badly need" thread. I agree with a lot of what you are saying here. I just think the athletes mentality has evolved so drastically from the Gable days and the parents as well. I honestly think it could be affecting recruiting and why some elite athletes are going elsewhere. I just do...

 

[championhawk]

Not trying to hate on your post, but (for the umpteenth time), the board is going apeshit and is angry, upset, emotional, etc. But the wrestler's don't get to be?

Of course the Lions are having fun, they are winning. Are we really pretending that the 3-peat team wasn't having fun? That the team didn't have fun after Ok State this year?

Also, how many times does it need to be pointed out that half of Penn States lineup are boring, unhappy guys. Gillabon and Mccruthen looked like somebody stole their lunch money. Penn State has 5 guys that would not start for our team but they get a free ride on the coat tails of Nolf, Zain, and Bo. Our fan base would be pissed if we were sending Gillabon, Conway, Mcruthen and Nevellis out there.

 

[theIowaHawk]

I wouldn't go that far, but yes, people look to the guys that appear to be having fun (those winning) and ignoring the Lions who don't look like its as much fun. I'm sure Nolf and Bo were a riot backstage after their finals matches...

 

[championhawk]

I wouldn't go that far, but yes, people look to the guys that appear to be having fun (those winning) and ignoring the Lions who don't look like its as much fun. I'm sure Nolf and Bo were a riot backstage after their finals matches...

Bo looked like he was going to break down after his match. He looked sluggish and unhappy all tournament for that matter. Conway got a gift stall call to win in the first round. He wasn't smiling after the match unless you count the wink to the Pennsylvania official. One PSU wrestler also had a PA native officiating his final. I believe it was the match with the phantom stall call against Imar but it may have been the one that machine gunned Martin with 2 or 3 stall calls in a matter of seconds.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

For a guy who claims to know everything there is to know about Tom and Terry Brands, it appears to me that you actually know very little.

Furthermore, I think you're mischaracterizing Iowa wrestling as a whole. You're buying into the very stereotypes competing coaches and Iowa-hating fans love to perpetuate.

So much seriousness? Seriously? Shoot -- most guys look serious out there. I don't know how you're able to jump inside the minds of wrestlers and discern how worried they are. That's flat-out nuts.

I used to cringe when Tom or Terry shoved a guy out of bounds back in the early 90's. I didn't care for it. But don't act as if they're training their guys to be disrespectful to opponents. Wrestling is a tough sport. Although I always prefer great sportsmanship, occasionally things get more physically than I'd like. But don't pretend that Iowa guys somehow have the market corned on extracurricular activity. You see if from virtually every program from time to time.

Let's go through the lineup and see how our guys are disrespectful of opponents:

125: Gilman. Occasionally with a shove here and there. However, much more restrained this year, and I'd say he was a darn good sport through this tournament.

133: Clark. Generally an extremely good sport. If you're harping on his shove of Richards after their match, it was because Richards wasn't letting him get up. . . and Richards shoved him in the head after that. Instead of retaliating, Cory patted him on the back and shook his hand.

141: Grothus. A supremely good sport throughout his career. Nothing but great respect for his opponents.

149: Sorensen. Always a great sport. Tough competitor but always respectful of his opponents.

157: Cooper. A very good sport, too. Showed great restraint after getting shoved after the whistle by Gantt in the dual meet and Murphy in the 3rd place match at Big Tens.

165: Rhoads. A great sport, as well.

174: Meyer. Nothing to see here.

184: Brooks. A bit of a showman, but still a good sport.

197: Burak. The consummate sportsman.

285: Stoll. Also a good sport.

Yep -- we're just a bunch of robotic, thuggish, poor sports. There are just gobs of evidence. And we're so serious, too. Like Gilman giving the crowd the thumbs-up at Big Tens after his win in the consolation round when you knew how badly he wanted that title. And on, and on.

Rip them for falling short of their goal. (Never mind that they lost their heavyweight who very likely would have placed top 6 and put them in 3rd place right behind Okie State if he'd been able to compete, but that's another story). Pile on for the relative lack of super stud recruits in the line up. Lament the holes at 141 (which would have been manned by R12 Gross if he hadn't gotten in trouble and kicked off the team) and 165. But come on, man -- don't be making things up where they don't exist.

Winning is everyone's goal. Don't try to pretend that only Iowa guys get down when they don't reach their goals. Everyone does. Iowa just happens to be the most dominant program since 1970 and our standards are higher than anyone else's. That doesn't mean our guys are completely devastated. I'm sure they're turning the page and trying to improve already, like their coaches.

For a guy/gal who claims to be such a loyal Iowa fan, your post is the opposite of constructive, and I'd say it's counterproductive. You're perpetuating what I would consider to be extremely inaccurate baloney. I don't understand why you'd feel compelled to spread this kind of crap about a program you supposedly support. For all we know, you're a PSU fan. Frankly, you sound like one.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Bo looked like he was going to break down after his match. He looked sluggish and unhappy all tournament for that matter. Conway got a gift stall call to win in the first round. He wasn't smiling after the match unless you count the wink to the Pennsylvania official. One PSU wrestler also had a PA native officiating his final. I believe it was the match with the phantom stall call against Imar but it may have been the one that machine gunned Martin with 2 or 3 stall calls in a matter of seconds.

This is an illustration of what I'm getting at. WINNING IS FUN. I've seen a whole lot of wrestlers from a whole lot of programs over the last 4 decades who have been totally miserable after losses. Similarly, I've seen a whole lot of wrestlers from a whole lot of programs over the last 4 decades -- many IOWA guys, and some quite recently -- who have been elated after big wins.

Contrary to what folks like ol' cliff here want to believe, Iowa wrestlers are just as human as anyone else out there. They have ups and downs. They strive to win. They celebrate when they do. They can get down when they don't. JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER WRESTLER FROM EVERY OTHER PROGRAM IN THE NATION. For crying out loud, cliff, what did you expect from Iowa guys this past weekend?! Would it have made you happy to see them skipping around singing "Yankee Doodle Dandy"?! They didn't reach their goals. There wasn't much to celebrate, in case you failed to notice.

So this whole "fun" thing is a bunch of bunk. Winning is fun. Losing is not. Winning wrestlers and programs have fun when they're winning. Losing ones don't. I promise you that everyone in the Iowa wrestling program is working hard -- and having some fun along the way -- as they strive to meet their goals. When they do, they'll be having fun. . . and others won't be having as much.

Not. Rocket. Science.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

You are absolutely right, and I don't mean to make this post about Iowa winning or losing. Winning generally makes wrestlers happier. This is about something else. That said, in my experience at this nationals, I detected a lack of fun for wrestlers when they were winning or losing.

What a bunch of crap. So you're going to take this personal observation of yours, which could be completely whacked, and spew it all over a message board for recruits and their families to potentially read.

Strong work, pal. Do you think you're somehow helping in some completely demented way?

I'm still not at all convinced you're not a trolling PSU fan.

 

[255]

Great response.

Maybe I am not a true fan. I don't see the problem the same way everyone else seems too.

We are not dominating the NCAA. I just see that wrestling is better. More teams are well balanced. Cael is taking advantage of a great situation. The gable coaching tree is executing. A lot of teams are.

We have holes. We need to step up recruiting big time. Our offense needs improvement. All true.

Brands is a great coach. He is not gable or in gables time. No one is. As good as Cael is doing, he is not close to gables run. (Only runner up 3 times and lower than 2nd twice. Champs every other year). He works hard. The team made improvements but it will take longer than anyone wants. No one can step in a turn it around in 1, 2 or 3 seasons any better Han brands.

Be upset and disappointed. Keep the standards high. However, take the challenge of being the best in a different world and trust the man who is working night and day to do it. Percy, DT, dale, JB...so on. They are not the answer. Even if they were, most would be unhappy with how the team changes. Gilman wrestled his ass off and made a couple mistakes of aggression and got beat by a top opponent. Cory wrestled his ass of and got beat by a great wrestlers. Sorenson is a great wrestler and faced a very great wrestler and got beat. All three can win, give them time and they will. Brooks, Myers, Stoll and others want it. They will work. Next year is a new year and will be better than this year. I just don't see the shy falling and certainly don't see comparing TB to Z.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Focus on the bad times and not so much the good. If your kid just lost a match to lose the dual for his team, which coach would you rather see him face in the locker room afterward, Cael or Tom? Who do you think would be more understanding and encouraging toward your son, Tom or Cael? Which coach do you think would be more apt to call out your son after his loss?

I really don't think it's the "fun" aspect that these athletes and their parents are focusing on. I'm the other way, I think it's those moments when things go bad and they fail.

I have no idea how Tom or Cael handle their boys after failure but I can tell you what the perception is for me anyway. It seems that Cael would take a more sensitive, encouraging approach whereas Tom may take a more "you let me and your team down" approach to things. I'm sorry, that's the perception I have. I'm not trolling, I'm just being honest with how I see things.

 

[whejoe]

He who defines the argument wins the argument. This is what's going on with the Hawks. The entire wrestling community is saying the Hawks have no fun or they are getting burnt out or TnT don't let their wrestlers wrestle their own style....yadda yadda yadda. TnT are both very funny and have an awesome sense of humor. Without any knowledge of what goes on in Iowa City, I bet the locker room or the team bus or plane gets pretty light hearted at times. Seriously, how could it not be when you have to coaches that are that funny. If it's so bad under TnT, how come more guys don't transfer out(save for the ones that get in trouble with the law)? I think Tarphawk gives the best summation of what is going on and what needs to improve, i.e recruiting studs.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Great response.

Maybe I am not a true fan. I don't see the problem the same way everyone else seems too.

We are not dominating the NCAA. I just see that wrestling is better. More teams are well balanced. Cael is taking advantage of a great situation. The gable coaching tree is executing. A lot of teams are.

We have holes. We need to step up recruiting big time. Our offense needs improvement. All true.

Brands is a great coach. He is not gable or in gables time. No one is. As good as Cael is doing, he is not close to gables run. (Only runner up 3 times and lower than 2nd twice. Champs every other year). He works hard. The team made improvements but it will take longer than anyone wants. No one can step in a turn it around in 1, 2 or 3 seasons any better Han brands.

Be upset and disappointed. Keep the standards high. However, take the challenge of being the best in a different world and trust the man who is working night and day to do it. Percy, DT, dale, JB...so on. They are not the answer. Even if they were, most would be unhappy with how the team changes. Gilman wrestled his ass off and made a couple mistakes of aggression and got beat by a top opponent. Cory wrestled his ass of and got beat by a great wrestlers. Sorenson is a great wrestler and faced a very great wrestler and got beat. All three can win, give them time and they will. Brooks, Myers, Stoll and others want it. They will work. Next year is a new year and will be better than this year. I just don't see the shy falling and certainly don't see comparing TB to Z.

Now, THIS is a reasonable assessment that has some basis in reality.

Cliff, I suggest you take notice and observe a well-reasoned description of things as they actually are, without a bunch of embellishment that's almost completely subjective and, IMO, almost totally detached from reality.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

He who defines the argument wins the argument. This is what's going on with the Hawks. The entire wrestling community is saying the Hawks have no fun or they are getting burnt out or TnT don't let their wrestlers wrestle their own style....yadda yadda yadda. TnT are both very funny and have an awesome sense of humor. Without any knowledge of what goes on in Iowa City, I bet the locker room or the team bus or plane gets pretty light hearted at times. Seriously, how could it not be when you have to coaches that are that funny. If it's so bad under TnT, how come more guys don't transfer out(save for the ones that get in trouble with the law)? I think Tarphawk gives the best summation of what is going on and what needs to improve, i.e recruiting studs.

BINGO.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Wrestling isn't easy. Taylor and Metcalf went 242-6, yet only a pair of national titles each. Look at this year with Nolf and Nickal looked unbeatable and then got beat.

5/6 looks daunting, but really it was 4, a damn impressive 4, but now it is starting again with one.

 

[wahlberg]

He who defines the argument wins the argument. This is what's going on with the Hawks. The entire wrestling community is saying the Hawks have no fun or they are getting burnt out or TnT don't let their wrestlers wrestle their own style....yadda yadda yadda. TnT are both very funny and have an awesome sense of humor. Without any knowledge of what goes on in Iowa City, I bet the locker room or the team bus or plane gets pretty light hearted at times. Seriously, how could it not be when you have to coaches that are that funny. If it's so bad under TnT, how come more guys don't transfer out(save for the ones that get in trouble with the law)? I think Tarphawk gives the best summation of what is going on and what needs to improve, i.e recruiting studs.

Skon, Baldosero (sp?), Nate Moore, Dylan Carew, Colby Covington, Laux, Berg to name a few...

TnT may have a sense of humor but that isn't what he was speaking of. He was speaking of who guys can relate to and feel comfortable around and trust in as their coach. Someone who will back them no matter how they perform or what style they wrestle. Not saying TnT aren't good in these areas, just saying that's the point he seems to be getting at

 

[theIowaHawk]

Focus on the bad times and not so much the good. If your kid just lost a match to lose the dual for his team, which coach would you rather see him face in the locker room afterward, Cael or Tom? Who do you think would be more understanding and encouraging toward your son, Tom or Cael? Which coach do you think would be more apt to call out your son after his loss?

I really don't think it's the "fun" aspect that these athletes and their parents are focusing on. I'm the other way, I think it's those moments when things go bad and they fail.

I have no idea how Tom or Cael handle their boys after failure but I can tell you what the perception is for me anyway. It seems that Cael would take a more sensitive, encouraging approach whereas Tom may take a more "you let me and your team down" approach to things. I'm sorry, that's the perception I have. I'm not trolling, I'm just being honest with how I see things.

This is crazy if this is what you believe, no wonder you don't like them.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Skon, Baldosero (sp?), Nate Moore, Dylan Carew, Colby Covington, Laux, Berg to name a few...

TnT may have a sense of humor but that isn't what he was speaking of. He was speaking of who guys can relate to and feel comfortable around and trust in as their coach. Someone who will back them no matter how they perform or what style they wrestle. Not saying TnT aren't good in these areas, just saying that's the point he seems to be getting at

Colby Covington? Really? You are just throwing out names now.

 

[johnstownsteel]

He who defines the argument wins the argument. This is what's going on with the Hawks. The entire wrestling community is saying the Hawks have no fun or they are getting burnt out or TnT don't let their wrestlers wrestle their own style....yadda yadda yadda. TnT are both very funny and have an awesome sense of humor. Without any knowledge of what goes on in Iowa City, I bet the locker room or the team bus or plane gets pretty light hearted at times. Seriously, how could it not be when you have to coaches that are that funny. If it's so bad under TnT, how come more guys don't transfer out(save for the ones that get in trouble with the law)? I think Tarphawk gives the best summation of what is going on and what needs to improve, i.e recruiting studs.

I have no doubts the Brands brothers are great guys, fun and probably really fair and treat their kids great. But look what you said, " the entire wrestling community is saying the Hawks have no fun". Recruits and their parents are part of that community right? So if the perception is out there, then that very well could be affecting many elite guys from signing on with the Hawks. Unless they spend a lot of time in the Iowa room or going to camps there, then how are recruits and parents to know that the perceptions they have just aren't true?

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Skon, Baldosero (sp?), Nate Moore, Dylan Carew, Colby Covington, Laux, Berg to name a few...

TnT may have a sense of humor but that isn't what he was speaking of. He was speaking of who guys can relate to and feel comfortable around and trust in as their coach. Someone who will back them no matter how they perform or what style they wrestle. Not saying TnT aren't good in these areas, just saying that's the point he seems to be getting at

Are you implying that these kids left Iowa because they didn't care for Tom and Terry? Because that's not at all why most, if not all, of those kids left.

 

[wahlberg]

Throw in Nick Leclere, Jake Ballweg, etc. that just came to mind. Guys certainly have left recently. Colby Covington left, did he not? I can't remember if he got in trouble - maybe that's what you're getting at. If so, my bad on that one.

 

[wahlberg]

Are you implying that these kids left Iowa because they didn't care for Tom and Terry? Because that's not at all why most, if not all, of those kids left.

Wasn't implying anything. I was simply responding to the assertion that nobody is leaving the program. I would ask whether your statement about why they left is grounded in opinion or fact? Have you spoken to the people I mentioned??

 

[johnstownsteel]

This is crazy if this is what you believe, no wonder you don't like them.

Maybe you need to read my post again. While you are at it, you can surf my history and see that I have shown nothing but respect for the Brands Brothers.

 

[whejoe]

I have no doubts the Brands brothers are great guys, fun and probably really fair and treat their kids great. But look what you said, " the entire wrestling community is saying the Hawks have no fun". Recruits and their parents are part of that community right? So if the perception is out there, then that very well could be affecting many elite guys from signing on with the Hawks. Unless they spend a lot of time in the Iowa room or going to camps there, then how are recruits and parents to know that the perceptions they have just aren't true?

I definitely agree with you that it can affect recruiting, no doubt about that. But I also think IA doesn't go after a lot of studs(I could be wrong as I have no inside info), but rather trying to find "their guys". So I think IA needs to change their strategy a bit, which they have done in the past year or so.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Wasn't implying anything. I was simply responding to the assertion that nobody is leaving the program. I would ask whether your statement about why they left is grounded in opinion or fact? Have you spoken to the people I mentioned??

Some are common knowledge. I have spoken with relatives, but I'm not going to get into details.

Dylan Carew, for example, had two bad knees and just couldn't compete.

Phil Laux wasn't going to crack the lineup. And he's returned to Iowa from NW, if I'm not mistaken.

Skon was homesick and logically transferred back to Kent State.

Nick LeClere wasn't excelling at the D1 level and moved to D3 Coe where he had a very good career.

Some of the others are more nebulous, so I don't want to speculate, but I'm not aware that any of those guys left because they had a problem with Tom and Terry. That said, you're aware, of course, that every program in every sport at every university across the country has some degree of attrition. . . and that doesn't necessarily reflect at all on the coaches and/or their relationships to their athletes.

So on one hand you're not implying anything, yet on the other hand you're still wondering whether these guys left because of Tom and Terry. I'd say you were implying something.

 

[whejoe]

I really don't think it's the "fun" aspect that these athletes and their parents are focusing on. I'm the other way, I think it's those moments when things go bad and they fail.

I have no idea how Tom or Cael handle their boys after failure but I can tell you what the perception is for me anyway. It seems that Cael would take a more sensitive, encouraging approach whereas Tom may take a more "you let me and your team down" approach to things. I'm sorry, that's the perception I have. I'm not trolling, I'm just being honest with how I see things.

I think Tom is very sensitive to his guys after a loss. I think the "you let your team down" is probably a popular perception across the country. If coaches are using that perception on the recruiting trail, that tells me a lot about those coaches. However, if you see Tom interviewed after a McDonough or Marion loss at nationals, Tom is fighting back tears talking about his guys.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Maybe you need to read my post again. While you are at it, you can surf my history and see that I have shown nothing but respect for the Brands Brothers.

Here, I will repost the lunacy of what you believe, again, crazy if you actually believe this:

... It seems that Cael would take a more sensitive, encouraging approach whereas Tom may take a more "you let me and your team down" approach to things.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Focus on the bad times and not so much the good. If your kid just lost a match to lose the dual for his team, which coach would you rather see him face in the locker room afterward, Cael or Tom? Who do you think would be more understanding and encouraging toward your son, Tom or Cael? Which coach do you think would be more apt to call out your son after his loss?

I really don't think it's the "fun" aspect that these athletes and their parents are focusing on. I'm the other way, I think it's those moments when things go bad and they fail.

I have no idea how Tom or Cael handle their boys after failure but I can tell you what the perception is for me anyway. It seems that Cael would take a more sensitive, encouraging approach whereas Tom may take a more "you let me and your team down" approach to things. I'm sorry, that's the perception I have. I'm not trolling, I'm just being honest with how I see things.

You may be honest with how you see things. But that doesn't mean that your perception is correct. It's just your imaginary situation that you dreamed up and posted how you think it would work out in the real world without knowing how TnT or Carl would handle that imaginary situation.

Stating your imaginary situation once is posting. Even if it is a completely made up, fake, theoretical, impossible to know how ANYONE would react until in the moment.

Bringing it around to several threads is trolling whether you care to face that fact or not.

 

[rossel 33]

The whole Iowa "doesn't have fun" and Cael makes it "fun at PSU" ... what a load of craap!

The people posting this are generally a small group of PSU fans/rabid Iowa haters. It gets repeated ad nauseum on themat forum. These folks don't have a clue what goes on in the Iowa wrestling room and don't know the wrestlers personally, but that doesn't stop the garbage posts. I've long thought this was propaganda, promoted to scare away recruits.

 

[rossel 33]

Here's a wacky theory.... if one wins, it can appear they are having fun, and if they lose, they will look sad.

Exhibit A:

2011 podium at 157 after Jenkins pinned Taylor in the finals. Here's what I see... Jenkins looks like he's having fun. Taylor doesn't.

 

[wahlberg]

Some are common knowledge. I have spoken with relatives, but I'm not going to get into details.

Dylan Carew, for example, had two bad knees and just couldn't compete.

Phil Laux wasn't going to crack the lineup. And he's returned to Iowa from NW, if I'm not mistaken.

Skon was homesick and logically transferred back to Kent State.

Nick LeClere wasn't excelling at the D1 level and moved to D3 Coe where he had a very good career.

Some of the others are more nebulous, so I don't want to speculate, but I'm not aware that any of those guys left because they had a problem with Tom and Terry. That said, you're aware, of course, that every program in every sport at every university across the country has some degree of attrition. . . and that doesn't necessarily reflect at all on the coaches and/or their relationships to their athletes.

So on one hand you're not implying anything, yet on the other hand you're still wondering whether these guys left because of Tom and Terry. I'd say you were implying something.

Taking your last thought first, I was simply replying to whejoe, who asked why more of our guys don't transfer out. When he asked that, my immediate thoughts were on whether or not that was true. I was able to list those guys off the top of my head, which led me to think maybe he had forgotten or was unaware of them. Therefore, I pointed them out as facts, as I believe in working on a factual basis rather than illegitimate notions or opinions. So, no, I was not implying anything, nor was I speculating as to the "why" of their leaving, but simply stating the fact that they left.

As for the guys you listed:

Carew, indeed had multiple knee surgeries. However, it was far more complicated than that. And, there is a rocky relationship there.

Laux is back, correct. NW was/is a disaster. Yes, likely no chance of making the lineup here and, as far as I know, no problem with TnT.

Skon - If he's homesick, make him feel at home!!! Give him something to stay for - he obviously committed to coming in the first place, so there's interest. Inspire him. Maybe they tried. Who knows I guess.

Leclere - You nailed it on the head for all I know.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Here's a wacky theory.... if one wins, it can appear they are having fun, and if they lose, they will look sad.

Evidence A: 2011 podium at 157 after Jenkins pinned Taylor in the finals. Here's what I see... Jenkins looks like he's having fun. Taylor doesn't.

DT looks like a Soviet athlete who knows he's going into the gulag when he gets back across the Iron curtain for losing.

Actually, now that I think about it ............Carl does kind of resemble Khrushchev a bit.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Skon, Baldosero (sp?), Nate Moore, Dylan Carew, Colby Covington, Laux, Berg to name a few...

TnT may have a sense of humor but that isn't what he was speaking of. He was speaking of who guys can relate to and feel comfortable around and trust in as their coach. Someone who will back them no matter how they perform or what style they wrestle. Not saying TnT aren't good in these areas, just saying that's the point he seems to be getting at

Thought Nate Moore ended up in the hospital with an infection that was pretty serious. Am I confusing him with someone else?

 

[wahlberg]

Thought Nate Moore ended up in the hospital with an infection that was pretty serious. Am I confusing him with someone else?

You are correct - he had staph infection. Started in his knee and spread. Was hospitalized and it was serious. However, that was in 2010, long before he left IIRC. And, I don't think it had even the slightest bearing on his leaving. Pretty sure the fact TnT went with Ramos in 2011 rubbed him wrong.

 

[rossel 33]

Thought Nate Moore ended up in the hospital with an infection that was pretty serious. Am I confusing him with someone else?

----

That is correct. I recall reading a while back he has a serious staph infection... nothing to mess around with.

 

[SPOONER]

Did Gilman look like he was hating life after sticking the NCAA champ? How about Tom (or whichever one was mat side)?

And where was all the PSU "fun" last season? I don't recall anyone talking about how much fun it looked like they were having last year.

This bs about fun is so overblown.

 

[SPOONER]

Skon, Baldosero (sp?), Nate Moore, Dylan Carew, Colby Covington, Laux, Berg to name a few...

TnT may have a sense of humor but that isn't what he was speaking of. He was speaking of who guys can relate to and feel comfortable around and trust in as their coach. Someone who will back them no matter how they perform or what style they wrestle. Not saying TnT aren't good in these areas, just saying that's the point he seems to be getting at

Those examples suck, FYI. Moore and Carew didn't transfer out. Carew had major knee problems that ended his career. Laux left so he could get on the mat. And now he's back. Berge and Covington left for that same reason. Did Covington even AA at Oregon State?. Baldy hasn't been wrestling anywhere or at least didn't make an impact. Skon was barely in the room, is already on at least his 3rd school and doesn't appear that he will make an impact anywhere.

 

[wahlberg]

Those examples suck, FYI. Moore and Carew didn't transfer out. Carew had major knee problems that ended his career. Laux left so he could get on the mat. And now he's back. Berge and Covington left for that same reason. Did Covington even AA at Oregon State?. Baldy hasn't been wrestling anywhere or at least didn't make an impact. Skon was barely in the room, is already on at least his 3rd school and doesn't appear that he will make an impact anywhere.

Okay SPOONER

 

[CradleKing26]

Reminds me of the TR Foley article about "Enduring the sport Vs. Enjoying the sport". Has some validity for our wrestlers, but we are really the ONLY program that considers it a failure if we don't win the national title every year. Penn St will be that way soon, and when they don't win, they won't be having very much fun either.