TNT

[blak&gold]

I think Tom is one of the best interviews in the business, tells it like it is. Unfortunately, I don't think it always seems to build up his team. I watched his interview and to me it seems like the interviewer was trying to give Tom the opportunity to rave about his finalists. Asking something like "are you proud of your three finalist?" His response just seemed so different than most coaches who would be able to pull away from the disappointment of the loss and say how proud he was of them and leaders they have been to this team. He did say he was proud of their effort, but to me it was saying he wasn't proud because you lost but you tried. He then went on to talk about how easily Sorenson gave up takedowns without prompting.

It just seems like he is so intense he lets everything out and doesn't know how to praise his team when they come up short. I am sure he was very tough on himself as a competitor and probably wouldn't want anyone to think there was anything positive about taking second place, but I think you lose kids sometimes because they just see the constant disappointment. I do think some kids do feel similar to Tom but I think there may be fewer and fewer kids like that.

 

[CradleKing26]

"For Iowa, winning and losing is life and death. From the head coach to the backup, the idea is to accomplish the goal of winning by enduring the suffering necessary to achieve it, while other programs like Penn State, Cornell and UTC seem to take enjoyment from the same journey to the podium. Maybe it's my perception, but the outlook of these programs is more positive, and with fewer dogs being run over by farm equipment."

Quote from article I was referring too.

 

[theIowaHawk]

This appears to be the "article" you are discussing: https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/13681

It is Foley answering questions posed to him (that he gets to choose from and answer how he wishes), which he accompanied with a photo of Nick Moore after winning a match, looking not-so-happy.

You know, a guy who looked like this after winning in high school:

But I'm sure it is just the Iowa approach when we cherry pick photos.

Again, as so many others have posted, its a common perception that outside-of-iowa guys like to push, Foley being another example of them.

Maybe we should cherry pick photos instead?

Or how about PSU after winning:

 

[10002268]

Have you been Penn State wrestling practice? They are having fun and playing games. Wrestling almost seems like it comes second to having fun.

 

[IrishinGA]

Focus on the bad times and not so much the good. If your kid just lost a match to lose the dual for his team, which coach would you rather see him face in the locker room afterward, Cael or Tom? Who do you think would be more understanding and encouraging toward your son, Tom or Cael? Which coach do you think would be more apt to call out your son after his loss?

I really don't think it's the "fun" aspect that these athletes and their parents are focusing on. I'm the other way, I think it's those moments when things go bad and they fail.

I have no idea how Tom or Cael handle their boys after failure but I can tell you what the perception is for me anyway. It seems that Cael would take a more sensitive, encouraging approach whereas Tom may take a more "you let me and your team down" approach to things. I'm sorry, that's the perception I have. I'm not trolling, I'm just being honest with how I see things.

John,

You need to listen to Tom's interview after the finals (link below). It seems that he is more in tuned to how each wrestler feels individually than you give him credit for. He knows that positive individual results lead to team success. He is not beating them up because they let HIM down but they believe they let themselves down.

https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/thre...-state-of-iowa-wrestling.113556/#post-2495550

 

[IrishinGA]

I think Tom is one of the best interviews in the business, tells it like it is. Unfortunately, I don't think it always seems to build up his team. I watched his interview and to me it seems like the interviewer was trying to give Tom the opportunity to rave about his finalists. Asking something like "are you proud of your three finalist?" His response just seemed so different than most coaches who would be able to pull away from the disappointment of the loss and say how proud he was of them and leaders they have been to this team. He did say he was proud of their effort, but to me it was saying he wasn't proud because you lost but you tried. He then went on to talk about how easily Sorenson gave up takedowns without prompting.

It just seems like he is so intense he lets everything out and doesn't know how to praise his team when they come up short. I am sure he was very tough on himself as a competitor and probably wouldn't want anyone to think there was anything positive about taking second place, but I think you lose kids sometimes because they just see the constant disappointment. I do think some kids do feel similar to Tom but I think there may be fewer and fewer kids like that.

You hear what you want to hear. He was talking about how they were beating themselves up and they were embarrassed for their performance. He was talking about moving forward. This will not change your perception but nothing will.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Have you been Penn State wrestling practice? They are having fun and playing games. Wrestling almost seems like it comes second to having fun.

Yea...I go twice a week. It puts Joy in my life..............

 

[crablegs1]

"In order for my athlete to be successful, he better be an a-hole, he better be a dick"

"Win and you live, lose and you die."

 

[CradleKing26]

This appears to be the "article" you are discussing: https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/13681

It is Foley answering questions posed to him (that he gets to choose from and answer how he wishes), which he accompanied with a photo of Nick Moore after winning a match, looking not-so-happy.

You know, a guy who looked like this after winning in high school:

But I'm sure it is just the Iowa approach when we cherry pick photos.

Again, as so many others have posted, its a common perception that outside-of-iowa guys like to push, Foley being another example of them.

Maybe we should cherry pick photos instead?

Or how about PSU after winning:

Point duly noted but I still think there is some merit.

 

[Azchief32]

WDM is on fire in this thread

 

[wasdt21]

I think you guys are arguing with one guy many aliases, pretty sure o p is gablefan reincarnated

 

[Neo_Hawk]

This might be the highest TPP thread I have ever seen, that is Trolls Per Post. There are more Iowa bashers on this thread than actual Iowa fans. My goodness, even the sometimes fun and happy johnsonstown has turned on us.

Listen up trolls, this board is all about fun, we don't need you coming over here and trying to make this board less fun or un-fun.

 

[Neo_Hawk]

By the way, I do love 1002blah blahs posts above, "They are having fun and playing games. Wrestling almost seems like it comes second to having fun." - You're kidding me right???

This has to be a joke, maybe an Iowa fan posing as a PSU fan on an Iowa board because I don't think anything so stupid has ever been said anywhere if this is someone trying to be serious. What kind of games, like Duck Duck Goose and Red Rover or board games like Shoots and Ladders or Candyland?

Like PSU has found a magic bean that not even Bill Belichick , Phil Jackson or John Wooden had discovered, let's have so much fun we're not even doing what were supposed to and that will make us win. It's called getting stoned and blowing off your responsibilities, and while it was a lot of fun, I don't remember winning any awards for it back in my college days. (I kid of course..............................I won lots of awards)

 

[johnstownsteel]

Please read my entire post instead of just the parts you want to read. I emphatically admit that I have no idea how Cael or Tom Brands treat their boys in the room. None! I'm only giving you my perceptions on the matter. For those outside of the state of Iowa or the program itself, we can only go by interviews and what we see on tv. We do not know how Tom goes about treating or coaching up his wrestlers. We can only speculate.

 

[wasdt21]

you gave the same speculation on 4 different threads that is so jammenz like ,looks like a duck

 

[johnstownsteel]

Many recruits and their parents are just as in the dark as I am about what goes on in the rooms of these programs. I gave my perception of Tom Brands and fully admit that It's only gathered by what I hear from him in interviews and what I see on Tv. Im sorry but these recruits and parents a lot of times are just like me. They too have no idea how these coaches will handle their sons in the room. A lot of times they speculate just like I'm doing. If you guys feel I'm wrong, I fully understand but to lable me a troll is unfair.

 

[johnstownsteel]

you gave the same speculation on 4 different threads that is so jammenz like ,looks like a duck

I'm thinking its two threads but fair enough. I think I misread many of you. I thought you'd want an outsiders view on things. Someone not so close to your program. That you might want an idea of what some of the recruits and their parents might be thinking. I was wrong and I apologize for that.

 

[SCstunners]

Focus on the bad times and not so much the good. If your kid just lost a match to lose the dual for his team, which coach would you rather see him face in the locker room afterward, Cael or Tom? Who do you think would be more understanding and encouraging toward your son, Tom or Cael? Which coach do you think would be more apt to call out your son after his loss?

I really don't think it's the "fun" aspect that these athletes and their parents are focusing on. I'm the other way, I think it's those moments when things go bad and they fail.

I have no idea how Tom or Cael handle their boys after failure but I can tell you what the perception is for me anyway. It seems that Cael would take a more sensitive, encouraging approach whereas Tom may take a more "you let me and your team down" approach to things. I'm sorry, that's the perception I have. I'm not trolling, I'm just being honest with how I see things.

Sorry boys, I am late to the party. It is hard to keep up with 40 different threads that repeat the same exact thing. I'm not going to sit here and act like I know know how Tom and Terry handle their athletes. I have never gone to a practice so I truly do not know. But I have watched plenty of interviews and videos on Tom and Terry and can say with confidence that Tom and Terry are hurting just as bad as their athletes are after a loss. Does anyone not remember in the movie Terry when Terry is trying to get a hold of himself in the back room after Daniel Dennis lost? Do you not see the hurt in Toms face after the NCAA finals for Gilman, Clark, and Sorenson. If you were a coach, you would understand the time, effort, sweat, pain, and emotions these athletes put into the sport of wrestling and when you do not see them accomplish their goals, it hurts you just as much as it hurts them. Kendell Cross made the point to say that he didn't ever think he would see that side of Terry and Duroe makes comments about how TnT were great students of Gable and the relationships they build with their athletes. Go ask Bobby Telford or Mike Evans if the Brands ever told them they let their team down. There is a reason Gable got out of coaching early, because he was truly exhausted by giving all of his energy and emotions to his athletes.

I can't wait for two weeks when all the March Iowa wrestling fans are gone and it can go back to the "good ole boys" talking about the positives of Iowa Wrestling. Saturday was frustrating. It was frustrating for everyone who cheers for black and gold and it was exactly what every Iowa Hater was waiting for in the tournament so they can watch and troll on the most visited wrestling board. I felt a lot better about this season than I have the last two years of Iowa wrestling and I can't wait to watch them next year. 3 finalist returning, 5 returning All-Americans, stud RS freshman competing next year, studs freshman coming into the room for the first time, and to finish watching one of the best recruiting classes in the nation get finalized.

 

[pablow]

By the way, I do love 1002blah blahs posts above, "They are having fun and playing games. Wrestling almost seems like it comes second to having fun." - You're kidding me right???

This has to be a joke, maybe an Iowa fan posing as a PSU fan on an Iowa board because I don't think anything so stupid has ever been said anywhere if this is someone trying to be serious. What kind of games, like Duck Duck Goose and Red Rover or board games like Shoots and Ladders or Candyland?

Like PSU has found a magic bean that not even Bill Belichick , Phil Jackson or John Wooden had discovered, let's have so much fun we're not even doing what were supposed to and that will make us win. It's called getting stoned and blowing off your responsibilities, and while it was a lot of fun, I don't remember winning any awards for it back in my college days. (I kid of course)

Maybe the PSU fans ought to look into having some fun. What a bunch bitter sourpusses.

[What's really happening here is that Penn State is indignant they have to wait in line to ascent to the mantle of greatest sport dynasty ever. They want it now. That's why Amalone will not list the 1953 PSU championship in his signature - it would be an acknowledgement that anything prior to 2011 matters. And if events prior to 2011 matter, PSU has a mountain to climb.]

 

[wasdt21]

god thak you stunner

 

[Greco Gilligan]

Yea...I go twice a week. It puts Joy in my life..............

 

[wasdt21]

Gilligan I know you are a troll, but that is funny stuff.

 

[Neo_Hawk]

I'm thinking its two threads but fair enough. I think I misread many of you. I thought you'd want an outsiders view on things. Someone not so close to your program. That you might want an idea of what some of the recruits and their parents might be thinking. I was wrong and I apologize for that.

Just to clarify - I was only saying that you were being unfun, which we don't like over here, it may have sounded like I was lumping you in with the trolls, but that is not my intent. I think you are a good poster on our board, i was just having a bit of fun.

But I don't agree with your posts about TNT handling losses different that Carl, only because I don't know if there is anyone that actually knows what both of them do, but I can understand how you might get that impression from interviews. My impression is that Tom has so much emotion and passion about what he is about to say but he didn't plan it out and he does not want to tell the interviewer everything he is thinking, he likes to keep things close to the vest. Carl on the other hand sounds like he has the script already planned out, he knows ahead of time what he wants to say, like he's speaking from a teleprompter, "insert wrestlers name here" . Carl is like Steve Kerr, he loves the halftime interview, he has a lot he wants to say, Tom is like Gregg Popovich, we wants to coach his team and do his job and not have to explain it as he goes. Both different guys, both great wrestlers and great coaches, with different styles, but I am willing to bet that both teams really like their coach and both coaches care deeply about the well being of their athletes.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Just to clarify - I was only saying that you were being unfun, which we don't like over here, it may have sounded like I was lumping you in with the trolls, but that is not my intent. I think you are a good poster on our board, i was just having a bit of fun.

But I don't agree with your posts about TNT handling losses different that Carl, only because I don't know if there is anyone that actually knows what both of them do, but I can understand how you might get that impression from interviews. My impression is that Tom has so much emotion and passion about what he is about to say but he didn't plan it out and he does not want to tell the interviewer everything he is thinking, he likes to keep things close to the vest. Carl on the other hand sounds like he has the script already planned out, he knows ahead of time what he wants to say, like he's speaking from a teleprompter, "insert wrestlers name here" . Carl is like Steve Kerr, he loves the halftime interview, he has a lot he wants to say, Tom is like Gregg Popovich, we wants to coach his team and do his job and not have to explain it as he goes. Both different guys, both great wrestlers and great coaches, with different styles, but I am willing to bet that both teams really like their coach and both coaches care deeply about the well being of their athletes.

Good stuff right there! Look, my wife agrees with me probably 10 percent of the time. I annoy her as well. I'm opinionated and like to share my thoughts. I don't think it makes me a troll but I can see how some feel that way. I do at times feel I'm stepping out of line here and should just keep my mouth shut. It's just so damn hard because the content and discussions beat any board out there my own boards included. Lol. I'll try to behave from now on. Scouts honor.

 

[T8KUDWN]

I was looking to have some fun, so I kicked a psu troll square in the nuts & now I'm smiling ear to ear. Damn that was fun!!!

 

[MVPFAN]

I'm pretty sure Covington left because he did not have a clear spot in the lineup, he may have gotten in a bit of trouble as well.

 

[10002268]

When you're dealing with 18-22 year old kids in a sport like wrestling, to keep the drive for the sport you have to make it enjoyable

 

[jerot]

Good stuff right there! Look, my wife agrees with me probably 10 percent of the time. I annoy her as well. I'm opinionated and like to share my thoughts. I don't think it makes me a troll but I can see how some feel that way. I do at times feel I'm stepping out of line here and should just keep my mouth shut. It's just so damn hard because the content and discussions beat any board out there my own boards included. Lol. I'll try to behave from now on. Scouts honor.

Wow, do you ever shut up?

 

[wahlberg]

Let's simplify this....

Look, I know there are a lot of doomsday fans and trolls floating around. I don't consider myself one of them, though some of you may label me as such because I don't think it's crazy to start re-thinking whether TnT are the right option going forward. Fine, label me as you will. It depends on your definition of troll I guess. If troll is someone who isn't a complete homer for TnT and will refuse to ever question anything about the direction we're heading, then I'm a troll. But, I'm also a hawk fan and want what is best for the program. TnT may be that, but I think it is fair to begin considering whether that is certainly so considering the results of the past 6 years.

The first question I have for the TnT die-hards is whether or not you are fine with the results of the past 6 years? This is not meant to mock you. I really want to know if you are fine with these results so long as you can continue to have the entertainment factor and tenacity that TnT project? I doubt most of you are fine with it but maybe some of you are. I am not and I know TnT aren't either. However, the question is not whether TnT are FINE with it, but whether they are the best option to FIX it.

Having established that we are less than satisfied with the results of late, the next question is why do you believe TnT are the men for the job of correcting our course? Are they not the same coaches who led us on this course? Have they shown the ability to adapt? What has changed in TnT that will result in better outcomes? Or, do you not believe coaching has that kind of impact?

You may disagree with me - but I ask you to consider the questions above and reflect on the situation without your emotional attachment to TnT. And, for the record, I am not saying "FIRE THEM NOW!" I am simply stating that the conversation is relevant based on recent results, and that change really ought to happen in a hurry for TnT to remain at the helm IMO, FWIW.

 

[Neo_Hawk]

When you're dealing with 18-22 year old kids in a sport like wrestling, to keep the drive for the sport you have to make it enjoyable

Red Rover Red Rover send 10002268 right over!

 

[JBJRFL]

Red Rover Red Rover send 10002268 right over!

He'll probably stall his way over.

 

[rossel 33]

Yea...I go twice a week. It puts Joy in my life..............

I went once. They did look like they were having fun. One group was playing charades and some had a karaoke contest going on. Cael was doing a watercolor painting, and in the corner two guys were playing checkers.

 

[rossel 33]

Please read my entire post instead of just the parts you want to read. I emphatically admit that I have no idea how Cael or Tom Brands treat their boys in the room. None! I'm only giving you my perceptions on the matter. For those outside of the state of Iowa or the program itself, we can only go by interviews and what we see on tv. We do not know how Tom goes about treating or coaching up his wrestlers. We can only speculate.

-----
We do not know. And neither do Foley or the anti-Iowa clowns that you may read on themat forums.

That is an important point to keep in mind, when forming your perceptions.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Wow, do you ever shut up?

No.

 

[johnstownsteel]

-----
We do not know. And neither do Foley or the anti-Iowa clowns that you may read on themat forums.

That is an important point to keep in mind, when forming your perceptions.

If you're looking for an argument you're not going to find it here. I agree and I certainly have no idea how Tom or Cael handles things in the room and behind closed doors. I can only go by what they put out there in interviews or what you see on TV during their matches. Some here think I'm trolling. That's cool. I'll have them know there is no program in the country I respect more than the Iowa Hawkeyes. None! I'll also have them know that I always want Iowa relevant and in the hunt. It seriously makes the season so much more enjoyable. To this day, PSU takes pride if they can somehow out perform the Hawkeyes. It wouldnt mean much if they were no good right? I always want them near the top.

 

[10002268]

The Iowa fans on this board are a lot different than the Iowa fans I talk with in person.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

View embedded media

Ruth & Taylor???

Or Nolf & Nickal???

 

[Kwoodhawk]

If you're looking for an argument you're not going to find it here. I agree and I certainly have no idea how Tom or Cael handles things in the room and behind closed doors. I can only go by what they put out there in interviews or what you see on TV during their matches. Some here think I'm trolling. That's cool. I'll have them know there is no program in the country I respect more than the Iowa Hawkeyes. None! I'll also have them know that I always want Iowa relevant and in the hunt. It seriously makes the season so much more enjoyable. To this day, PSU takes pride if they can somehow out perform the Hawkeyes. It wouldnt mean much if they were no good right? I always want them near the top.

No one knows how ANYONE will respond when something bad happens. Some people freak out. Others get calm, rational and start working on fixing whatever bad happened. And all sorts of other responses happen to others.

You don't even know how you would respond in any certain situation. I don't either. We may have guesses............ and that's all that is taking place here.....is guessing. And that really doesn't make for a good discussion. Made up guesses. Especially when your guesses show Carl being the good guy and Tom not so much. Yea......we might be a bit sensitive...........duh!

Listen...all of the PSU faithful and all of the Iowa Haters already know what they think would be the response between those two Coaches. Wow! Big surprise there. That's not really new information or particularly noteworthy as I have pointed out that it is all conjecture. No basis in FACT. Yet you continue to harp on it, and politely point out over and over and over that you really don't know how either would respond. We already know that without you beating us over the head with it. How many times in how many threads have you posted that? After awhile it is tiresome reading it.

Brands probably spends 2-3 hours a day 6-7 days a week for how many months a year for 5 years with these kids. He's trying to help them achieve their goals. He's going to know them pretty well. I assume you have seen the video of Tom stating him being a Christian that was posted here couple weeks ago. Powerful message from a man in his position.

So with this information......... are you going to tell me that you think Tom is going to be hard on the kids and tell them that they let him down and they let the Team down?

Your answer reveals more about your inner thinking than anything about Brands or Carl since anything outside of your own thoughts is simply unknown.

 

[championhawk]

I think Tom is very sensitive to his guys after a loss. I think the "you let your team down" is probably a popular perception across the country. If coaches are using that perception on the recruiting trail, that tells me a lot about those coaches. However, if you see Tom interviewed after a McDonough or Marion loss at nationals, Tom is fighting back tears talking about his guys.

Johnstown held in his true colors longer than most of the Penn State trolls. Tom bleeds with every loss and I guarantee he feels worse for his guys than Cael. Cael has proven with his track record to be all about Cael. The team comes first for Tom. Cael will always come first for Cael.

 

[jerot]

If you're looking for an argument you're not going to find it here. I agree and I certainly have no idea how Tom or Cael handles things in the room and behind closed doors. I can only go by what they put out there in interviews or what you see on TV during their matches. Some here think I'm trolling. That's cool. I'll have them know there is no program in the country I respect more than the Iowa Hawkeyes. None! I'll also have them know that I always want Iowa relevant and in the hunt. It seriously makes the season so much more enjoyable. To this day, PSU takes pride if they can somehow out perform the Hawkeyes. It wouldnt mean much if they were no good right? I always want them near the top.

Thank you Oprah.